Playing in big venues

pinoydrummer

Senior Member
For experienced drummers who play in big venues, what advice do
you have in order to have a smooth gig?

Some of my concerns are:

- What mix do you want to output in your monitor?
- How would you know if your sound check is good?
- How do you control your adrenaline? I find myself hitting extra
hard when in big venues.

I would love to hear your experiences and tips.

Thanks!

Raymond
 
- What mix do you want to output in your monitor?

Basically, you want a mix that will help you play your best. Don't be concerned about hearing a perfect mix, as if you were sitting back listening to the music. Whatever you rely on to play the song should probably be dominant in the mix, whether that's the bass, rhythm guitar, piano, the percussionist, a click... each drummer has specific needs. And hearing yourself is crucial as well.

Sometimes a mix is about what you don't hear. If you feel certain players/parts are getting in the way of what you want to hear or otherwise cluttering the mix for you, don't be afraid to bring them down or completely our of the mix. Your job is to groove, so bring up the elements that assist that, and reduce the elements that get in the way.

- How would you know if your sound check is good?

The FOH person will tell you, and you will have to rely on them.

- How do you control your adrenaline? I find myself hitting extra
hard when in big venues.

Along the same lines as stage fright, I think that personal confidence in yourself and comfort level with the band and mix will alleviate any unnecessary excitement. So, konw your parts, know your gear, know the band's arrangements, and get a good mix. Once everything is the way you like it, the adrenaline level goes way down.

For me, I'm just kind of in a bubble, happy to play drums and focused on that. It's all the same to me if I'm playing for 1,500, or 15,000, or 15 million on TV, or 15 people in a bar.

Bermuda
 
For experienced drummers who play in big venues, what advice do
you have in order to have a smooth gig?

Some of my concerns are:

- What mix do you want to output in your monitor?
- How would you know if your sound check is good?
- How do you control your adrenaline? I find myself hitting extra
hard when in big venues.

I would love to hear your experiences and tips.

Thanks!

Raymond

- I honestly never fuss much with a monitor mix.
I like a little bit of everything ....and a little heavy on bass....but I am really not picky about it at all because in big venues the monitor engineer is within eye shot off to either side of the stage and I could get his attention and get more or less of what I need very easily during the performance if I am using a wedge

- I know the check was good when the house cat says so
I'm not standing out there so I trust a guy who does it for a living and usually knows the room.

- never had a problem with adrenaline ..... and when I can just tap the kick and it pounds into my in ear monitors I feel no need to bash

I have never played stadiums or anything like that ...but i pretty regularly play big clubs and theatres that hold 3000 to 10,000 and I can honestly say that my excitement , butterflies and anxiety is much much less in the big venues than it is at a small jazz gig in front of 100 people....never really understood why .....but that is the case with me
 
Last edited:
For experienced drummers who play in big venues, what advice do
you have in order to have a smooth gig?

Some of my concerns are:

- What mix do you want to output in your monitor?
- How would you know if your sound check is good?
- How do you control your adrenaline? I find myself hitting extra
hard when in big venues.

I would love to hear your experiences and tips.

Thanks!

Raymond

I try to use in-ear monitoring whenever I can. That way the volume level is clean, clear, and I don't have to blast volume all around me.

Typically I'm looking for the guy with the best rhythmic feel in the band and getting him up top in my mix. Sometimes that's the bass player; sometimes it's the rhythm guitarist (especially if he's playing acoustic); sometimes it's the piano player. Your mileage may vary. I bring in everything else I need to hear under that (like a lead vocal or a soloist), and then anything else I think I might want to hear to fill in the sound (low volume keyboards, etc). Usually backup vocalists are left out of my mix (unless one of them's going to pick up the vocal during a song), and if there's anyone with suspect timing in the band (constantly rushes or drags), they get turned down if there's no other option. That's the beauty of the in-ear console.

Like Bermuda said, you have to have some faith in your FOH sound guy. Usually large venues don't allow anyone to walk out in front and hear the band from the audience's POV. So cultivate a good working relationship with the FOH guy; if he know's what he's doing, he'll dial you in and you'll never even have to worry about it.

Oddly enough, like Gvda said, I get more nerves in front of small crowds than in front of large crowds. Usually in a larger venue, you can't really make out anyone's faces and it becomes kind of microcosmic on stage -- you'll be watching the guitarist, vocalist, etc. for cues and shapes and interplay. You can almost pretend you're in rehearsal instead of on stage. But in small venues, often there are people ten or fifteen feet away from you, where you can clearly see if they're digging it or not. (Speaking of rehearsal -- the more rehearsals you have, the less nervous you will be. Honest.)

My secret? I never wear my glasses when I'm playing. Then I don't have to look at the crowd so much ;)
 
100 people at a jazz gig? That's like an arena tour! :)

I'm telling you.... late night Brooklyn is poppin Jon

and all kind of cats will show up and stand in ....Gerry Gibbs, Ravi Coltrane, Ron Carter.....it's amazing
 
I have never played stadiums or anything like that ...but i pretty regularly play big clubs and theatres that hold 3000 to 10,000 and I can honestly say that my excitement , butterflies and anxiety is much much less in the big venues than it is at a small jazz gig in front of 100 people....never really understood why .....but that is the case with me

I can totally feel that. For whatever reason, in a bigger joint, it just feels like there's less focus on me... Maybe it's because I can't just look up and notice all the people who are staring at me, the drummer. Has anyone else noticed this? It really seems to me that in the average audience, people spend a lot of time really watching the drummer compared to other players. Maybe I'm crazy?
 
Raymond, I think you got some great answers from the other guys. I have very limited experience with playing big venues, but we do some local festivals and one problem I get is feeling "separation anxiety." I am used to playing small stages where the band is almost touching elbows. And we rehearse in a small room, positioned in a circle so we get lots of eye contact. Then going on a big stage, sitting high up on a riser and so far from each band mate feels strange to me. I am not bringing this up to give you one more thing to worry about, but just so you can be mentally prepared for it. This might not be an issue for you at all anyway. I get over it after a few songs. Getting a good mix in the monitors can help with this feeling of isolation. Speaking of monitor mix, in addition to what everybody else said, it is very important for me for me to hear my bass drum loud and clear in the mix. It is hard to set a groove when I cannot hear my own bass drum despite feeling it via the beater. In my experience, the sound guys don't always understand that the drummer needs his bass drum in the mix, so I make sure to ask for it.
 
As Taye Dyed said, the biggest shock to most folks is the separation. Suddenly everyone else is far away. If it's a loud band with big amplifiers this can be a good thing. But with smaller amps, you're suddenly hearing everything though the monitor instead of hearing this guy over here and that guy over there. As others have said, don't try to get a perfect monitor mix. There's really no such thing. Get the bass player and anyone else you need to lock in the groove and then enough of anyone else that you need a cue from in order to tell what they are doing. But not so much that they are dominant in the monitor mix. You'll start following them rather than the other way around. Unless everyone is on cranked IEMs or really huge backline, they'll hear the drums just fine acoustically. Trust in that and play what you play.

One thing I've learned with keyboard players and others going direct who rely on hearing themselves in the monitor mix is to start with less of them than you think. Invariably they turn up to hear themselves better. FOH may turn them down in the main mix to sound right, but forget that they're in everyone's monitor send. The other night I played with a keyboard player who was really off in time, banging a sharp acoustic piano patch that he turned up from the keyboard to hear himself. It's hard to get the soundguy's attention, point out what you want and get it adjusted while playing. I really had to concentrate to tune it out and work with the rest of the band.
 
I've never played any "arena" type gigs but I've done some outdoor "street fair" ones. Normally I like to hear the rhythm guitar. If he has an open back (Fender type) amp I can usually get enough sound if he puts his amp close to the drums. Same with the bass. If the rhythm guitar has a closed back (Marshall type) I like to have it miced and added to the monitor mix.

For vocals I like to have the lead singer a lot louder than the other background singers, and not too much of myself. I always wear ear plugs and can hear myself just fine thank you very much.
 
Wow! Thank you for all the amazing replies!

Basically, you want a mix that will help you play your best. Don't be concerned about hearing a perfect mix, as if you were sitting back listening to the music. Whatever you rely on to play the song should probably be dominant in the mix, whether that's the bass, rhythm guitar, piano, the percussionist, a click... each drummer has specific needs. And hearing yourself is crucial as well.

Sometimes a mix is about what you don't hear. If you feel certain players/parts are getting in the way of what you want to hear or otherwise cluttering the mix for you, don't be afraid to bring them down or completely our of the mix. Your job is to groove, so bring up the elements that assist that, and reduce the elements that get in the way.

The FOH person will tell you, and you will have to rely on them.

Along the same lines as stage fright, I think that personal confidence in yourself and comfort level with the band and mix will alleviate any unnecessary excitement. So, konw your parts, know your gear, know the band's arrangements, and get a good mix. Once everything is the way you like it, the adrenaline level goes way down.

For me, I'm just kind of in a bubble, happy to play drums and focused on that. It's all the same to me if I'm playing for 1,500, or 15,000, or 15 million on TV, or 15 people in a bar.

Bermuda

Thank you Bermuda for your insights. After reading your thoughts regarding my
adrenaline, I realized that the gear might have contributed with my comfort levels
and so next time I will have to prepare mentally if I can't do something about it.

- I honestly never fuss much with a monitor mix.
I like a little bit of everything ....and a little heavy on bass....but I am really not picky about it at all because in big venues the monitor engineer is within eye shot off to either side of the stage and I could get his attention and get more or less of what I need very easily during the performance if I am using a wedge

- I know the check was good when the house cat says so
I'm not standing out there so I trust a guy who does it for a living and usually knows the room.

- never had a problem with adrenaline ..... and when I can just tap the kick and it pounds into my in ear monitors I feel no need to bash

I have never played stadiums or anything like that ...but i pretty regularly play big clubs and theatres that hold 3000 to 10,000 and I can honestly say that my excitement , butterflies and anxiety is much much less in the big venues than it is at a small jazz gig in front of 100 people....never really understood why .....but that is the case with me

Thanks Gvdadrummasum. I like your mix and I'll probably request the same. I asked my
bandmates after the gig and said that my drum sound were a little delayed on their end.

I try to use in-ear monitoring whenever I can. That way the volume level is clean, clear, and I don't have to blast volume all around me.

Typically I'm looking for the guy with the best rhythmic feel in the band and getting him up top in my mix. Sometimes that's the bass player; sometimes it's the rhythm guitarist (especially if he's playing acoustic); sometimes it's the piano player. Your mileage may vary. I bring in everything else I need to hear under that (like a lead vocal or a soloist), and then anything else I think I might want to hear to fill in the sound (low volume keyboards, etc). Usually backup vocalists are left out of my mix (unless one of them's going to pick up the vocal during a song), and if there's anyone with suspect timing in the band (constantly rushes or drags), they get turned down if there's no other option. That's the beauty of the in-ear console.

Like Bermuda said, you have to have some faith in your FOH sound guy. Usually large venues don't allow anyone to walk out in front and hear the band from the audience's POV. So cultivate a good working relationship with the FOH guy; if he know's what he's doing, he'll dial you in and you'll never even have to worry about it.

Oddly enough, like Gvda said, I get more nerves in front of small crowds than in front of large crowds. Usually in a larger venue, you can't really make out anyone's faces and it becomes kind of microcosmic on stage -- you'll be watching the guitarist, vocalist, etc. for cues and shapes and interplay. You can almost pretend you're in rehearsal instead of on stage. But in small venues, often there are people ten or fifteen feet away from you, where you can clearly see if they're digging it or not. (Speaking of rehearsal -- the more rehearsals you have, the less nervous you will be. Honest.)

My secret? I never wear my glasses when I'm playing. Then I don't have to look at the crowd so much ;)

The bassist would probably be my main choice when it comes to being louder in
the mix. Does FOH, mean Front of House?

I can totally feel that. For whatever reason, in a bigger joint, it just feels like there's less focus on me... Maybe it's because I can't just look up and notice all the people who are staring at me, the drummer. Has anyone else noticed this? It really seems to me that in the average audience, people spend a lot of time really watching the drummer compared to other players. Maybe I'm crazy?

Sometimes I look at the crowd and look for someone who's bobbing their head.

Raymond, I think you got some great answers from the other guys. I have very limited experience with playing big venues, but we do some local festivals and one problem I get is feeling "separation anxiety." I am used to playing small stages where the band is almost touching elbows. And we rehearse in a small room, positioned in a circle so we get lots of eye contact. Then going on a big stage, sitting high up on a riser and so far from each band mate feels strange to me. I am not bringing this up to give you one more thing to worry about, but just so you can be mentally prepared for it. This might not be an issue for you at all anyway. I get over it after a few songs. Getting a good mix in the monitors can help with this feeling of isolation. Speaking of monitor mix, in addition to what everybody else said, it is very important for me for me to hear my bass drum loud and clear in the mix. It is hard to set a groove when I cannot hear my own bass drum despite feeling it via the beater. In my experience, the sound guys don't always understand that the drummer needs his bass drum in the mix, so I make sure to ask for it.

Definitely the separation anxiety! hahaha. We played in a big stage in an open field
2 nights ago and suddenly my mates were really far from me and I was also buried
behind the drums and rigs. Good thing that sometimes my mates would establish
eye contact and smiles with me so the separation issue was not long lasting. hehehe.

As Taye Dyed said, the biggest shock to most folks is the separation. Suddenly everyone else is far away. If it's a loud band with big amplifiers this can be a good thing. But with smaller amps, you're suddenly hearing everything though the monitor instead of hearing this guy over here and that guy over there. As others have said, don't try to get a perfect monitor mix. There's really no such thing. Get the bass player and anyone else you need to lock in the groove and then enough of anyone else that you need a cue from in order to tell what they are doing. But not so much that they are dominant in the monitor mix. You'll start following them rather than the other way around. Unless everyone is on cranked IEMs or really huge backline, they'll hear the drums just fine acoustically. Trust in that and play what you play.

One thing I've learned with keyboard players and others going direct who rely on hearing themselves in the monitor mix is to start with less of them than you think. Invariably they turn up to hear themselves better. FOH may turn them down in the main mix to sound right, but forget that they're in everyone's monitor send. The other night I played with a keyboard player who was really off in time, banging a sharp acoustic piano patch that he turned up from the keyboard to hear himself. It's hard to get the soundguy's attention, point out what you want and get it adjusted while playing. I really had to concentrate to tune it out and work with the rest of the band.

This also made me think about how my bandmates are hearing me on their
mix. Maybe I'll give them some of your suggestions so everyone will be grooving. :)

I've never played any "arena" type gigs but I've done some outdoor "street fair" ones. Normally I like to hear the rhythm guitar. If he has an open back (Fender type) amp I can usually get enough sound if he puts his amp close to the drums. Same with the bass. If the rhythm guitar has a closed back (Marshall type) I like to have it miced and added to the monitor mix.

For vocals I like to have the lead singer a lot louder than the other background singers, and not too much of myself. I always wear ear plugs and can hear myself just fine thank you very much.

Yeah, sometimes I also want to hear the vocals.

Thanks so much to everyone! Love you guys! Happy New Year!
 
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