Why are VINTAGE drums so valued

Thunderstix

Senior Member
Is it sentiment that makes people hunt these drums or do the shells have superior design? What is superior about them? If they are in fact superior, then modern drums must be mediocre at best, despite the fancy options and attractive finishes.

For instance, I see people favour recording customs over the absolutes. This tells something about modern construction quality. Modern drums looks nice, but do they sound as good as their predecessors?

There's a trend to make modern drums thinner using more plies. This is more an economic choice than a warranted evolution in terms of tone. Vintage drums used more solid shells, like 3 plies thick or the single ply radio king snare. I'm not talking about hardware which has become more reliable over the years. This makes me wonder whether drum construction has become sub-par tone-wise.
 
I don't know anything about construction of drums but I have a snare that was vintage in the 70s when I bought it. Far more clued-up drummers than I am have told me that it's a brilliant instrument.

The wood shell is pretty thick but that's probably not unique. Maybe it's the maturing of the wood?
 
I don't think it's sentimental value, both of my kits were made 10 years before I was even born. Most vintage drums aren't as "highly" valued as you would think. I mean you can get a gretsch stop sign kit from the 70's for 1/4 the price of a 2010 gretsch usa custom, and they are pretty much the same drums.

I like vintage drums because of the sound. To me there is nothing like a 3 ply ludwig with reinforcing rings, or a 6 ply gretsch with 30 degree edges. These drums were actually cheaper to make in their day because they used less wood. Ludwig only used the reinforcing rings to stop the shells from going out of round. I think it was a happy accident that the effect that had on the sound of the drums is desired. The sound is subjective to the listener, but so many classic recordings were made using those drums that to me it sounds great.
 
Vintage drums are valued for both their sound AND aesthetics...

Unlike vintage guitars - it's difficult to buy a new drum kit that is constructed like 60's Ludwig, Rogers, and Gretsch kits were... So the best way to get that vintage sound is to buy a kit from that era.

Very round bearing edges, wood selection, low ply count, thin shells... these all contribute to the sound and vibe of vintage instruments.

Also unlike vintage guitars - the vintage drum market manages to keep the values reasonable... Like someone mentioned above - you can get into a decent vintage kit for about the same or less money as some mid to high end modern kits. I paid around $900 for my 1967 Ludwig Downbeat set w/ 5x14 Supraphonic - a fantastic set for a small investment.

Make no mistake though... quality has gone way way up over the years... Hardware is more solidly constructed, shells are less likely to de-laminate, consistency from shell to shell is much better, more wood choices, better quality finishes etc... etc.. there are trade-offs with vintage gear - no doubt.
 
What do you mean "valued"?

They can be valued monetarily, but most new kits that are close to the old ones in construction cost 3-5 times as much as finding an old one in good condition.

They can be valued for nostalgic reasons, but there are a lot of drummers who tout how great the old drums are, and they weren't even alive when they came out.

I think there are a couple of reasons they are valued:
1. As the years go by, there will be fewer and fewer of them, making them more rare, and ones in good condition even more rare. So, collectors will value them.
2. The wood they used was old growth wood with tighter grain structure. That, plus the wood having such a long time to cure, makes them sound "woody". So, players will value them.

I personally like the character of my old Ludwigs. They're not perfect drums, but if they were, they might sound a bit too "sterile" for me. It's the same thing with cymbals. I prefer to play older cymbals (from when they were hand-made) or modern hand-made cymbals, or even just cymbals that are not made perfect. Inconsistencies make variety and create complexity in the sound. That's what I value, and I find that quality in vintage drums.
 
What do you mean "valued"?


2. The wood they used was old growth wood with tighter grain structure. That, plus the wood having such a long time to cure, makes them sound "woody". So, players will value them.

This is an often overlooked characteristic of vintage wood instruments in general - the wood used today is often new growth, green or wet wood... the grain structure is indeed different. Also, today's wood is often quick - kiln dried as opposed to being allowed to cure naturally... with guitars this often leads to twisted / warped necks etc... as the wood continues to cure after being made into a guitar.

Also - wood will continue to dry out and change over the years - so a 40 year old drum kit will sound different today than it did when it was first constructed.
 
OK thanks, but do you really think vintage sounds better than a new drumset?

Take the recording custom - absolute analogy. Why do some people prefer the old RC over a new absolute? Both seem to be made of birch and both are priced similarly. Something must give.
 
OK thanks, but do you really think vintage sounds better than a new drumset?

My personal opinion is that they don't sound "better", just different. With that said, some people prefer Kit A over Kit B, while others prefer Kit B over Kit A. I'm pretty sure that there's some other factors going on in peoples' heads when they say that vintage kits are better. Kits today are built so much more solidly with better hardware, truer bearing edges, tighter seams, etc. But, whether it be nostalgia, the "hip factor" of a vintage kit, the collectibility, or the sound itself, vintage drums seem to be gaining popularity over the last decade+.

As for the RC analogy, I have NO idea. I'm not a fan of Yamaha drums.

I like the woodiness of vintage kits. They sound more pleasant to my ears...
 
vintage doesn't nescesarily sound better than new, nor vica versa. depends on the kit/how well it has been maintained/etc! imo there are too many variables to simply give a stock 'this is better than that' type answer.
 
One thing I noticed about new drums is that for the most part they all sound very similiar. I had a newer Ludwig kit and it sounded like most other new drums I've owned, plus it wasn't as warm as vintage drums.

Last Christmas I played at a party using a vintage Ludwig Standard kit. There were a couple drummers who sat in and were raving about the sound of my drums, they both played DW's and never really played on vintage drums. One of there friends joked that my Ludwigs sounded better than there DW's, they nodded there heads in agreement.
 
One of there friends joked that my Ludwigs sounded better than there DW's, they nodded there heads in agreement.

I would, too. I own a set of DWs AND a couple of vintage Ludwig kits. The Ludwigs just have more "character" to them. I wouldn't say they sound better, though, just different. My DW drums have their uses, and so do my Ludwigs...
 
I think there are a couple of reasons they are valued:
1. As the years go by, there will be fewer and fewer of them, making them more rare, and ones in good condition even more rare. So, collectors will value them.
2. The wood they used was old growth wood with tighter grain structure. That, plus the wood having such a long time to cure, makes them sound "woody". So, players will value them.

I think point 1 nails it for many collectors.

Be it old cars, old furniture, or old dresses, or any other vintage item, collect-ability is in part due to the rareness of the items. Look at how many antique stores there are in every city, all driven not by higher quality, but by the fact that old stuff in good condition has a limited supply.

Point 2 is also valid. Vintage violins, and other instruments, are valued for this reasons as well.

Other valid points are nostalgia, and just wanting to own a small piece of music history.

Many drums from the 60's and earlier where there for ground breaking moments in music history. Sure, the kit in question may never have been used for anything more than a guy in his basement, but it is still a tie to that era in music.
 
It's the word. That and the fact that older wooden instruments will have aged wood (dry) which translates into more resonance.

For me it's just the aged wood.
 
Just like vintage cars, few of them left. Even vintage wines.
 
Not only does wood cure and dry out (loose the sap) over time, but the vibrations from being played affects the wood as well. Back when I worked in a music store, you could always tell the pianos that were rented out to plinkers and beginners. Same thing with an acoustic guitar that had been played in C by a cowboy type, or A by a blues/rock guy all the time. The wood sort of settles into the key that it's vibrated at. These instruments always sounded warmer in those keys. In something odd like Eb or Ab, they sounded new and sterile. Conversely you could tell the pianos that had been rented to teachers and conservatories, that got played in all keys. They would be evenly "broken in".

This is why the so called "closet classics" really don't have the vintage vibe. Just being stored away for years may let the wood finish drying out, but if they're not played, there won't be that vintage warmth. That "broken in" feel and sound.
 
OK thanks, but do you really think vintage sounds better than a new drumset?

Take the recording custom - absolute analogy. Why do some people prefer the old RC over a new absolute? Both seem to be made of birch and both are priced similarly. Something must give.

People here have given some pretty good observations, but I think one thing to keep in mind is that older instruments don't necessarily sound "better." They do have a characteristic sound that many people believe you can't find any more. This may be due to the particular trees that were used, certain glue formulations, the way the plies were bound and pressed and assembled, the kinds of saws used to cut and shave the wood. All of those affect the sound and none of this can be replicated, because we don't know what exactly they did back then in many cases. Wood and glue are organic and change subtly over decades and there is no way to manufacture that in.

Many people like that particular sound and believe the only way to get it is with actual antique instruments. Other people would hear the same sound and it wouldn't sound appealing to them. It's just a matter of personal taste.

Also, there is the antique factor. People have a tendency to value things that are old, rare and have some story and tradition behind them, regardless of how they actually perform.
 
Just like vintage cars, few of them left. Even vintage wines.

:D it's kind of funny when you think about "vintage" and it's root meaning. "vint-age" a specific vinting (to make wine, to vint - like to brew is to make beer)

In wine, a vintage could actually be young, but it isn't blended across vintings (so it, in theory, at least, should be notable)

but these days we take it to mean "old and valuable" and it seems like the vinting part is pretty much gone

ah words

(BTW - love the location on your profile)
 
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I grew up playing those vintage kits and I think the new ones sound better, in fact, the Cat Maples I bought my son sound as good as any vintage Ludwig or Rogers set I used to play, and at a fraction of the cost, too.

Musical instruments all eventually become a supply and demand phenomena. Vintage Strativarius violins, vintage Les Pauls and Stratocastors, Martin D-28s, vintage cymbals - geez, the difference in them and their modern counterparts can only be heard by few, and IMO, the slght variance in tone does not amount to the sometimes thousands of dollars in price difference. Supposedly the aging of the wood and the select types of wood used back awhile ago have the most to do with why people see so much of a difference, plus just the old way of things being more handmade, I guess. Most of the value difference is mystique, or a perceived special quality which is debatable as to whether it actually exists to begin with, though.
 
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