Pork Pie Big Black Brass or Ludwig Black Magic

louisdrums

louisdrums

Member
So i'm looking to upgrade from stock snare to a nice brass snare. I've researched around and have picked out the Pork Pie Big Black Brass (I think that's what it's called), the new Ludwig Black Magic AND the Ahead Chrome On Brass. I'm just torn between them, any help is appreciated! Also does anyone know why the Ludwig is way more in price.. that's putting me off!

Cheers

Louis.
 
I have the Pork Pie and it is a good snare. I put Gibraltar die cast hoops on it and I think it sounds very similar to the Black Magic. I think the Ludwig looks a little better than the Pork Pie so I would choose it. Also the Ludwig name carries a little prestige.

I have not played nor heard the Ahead but all three are excellent drums and sound very similar. The Pork Pie and the Ahead might ring a little bit more than theLudwig because of the triple flange hoops but I think they all have the same Taiwanese made shell.
 
The ludwig is more for two reason. . . 1) because the ludwig is made from a spun brass so there is no seam so its more consistent. 2) Because its ludwig and those guys know what they are doin!!!. . .

I actually have both, I bought the BOB first cause i wanted a black brass snare, and than i bought an actually black beauty (Black magics are just beefier black beauties http://www.ludwig-drums.com/snaredrums/blackmagic.php). . but its totally worth it to save a little bit longer and get the ludwig. . .you wont regret it. . .
God Bless
 
Ludwig is more in price because people love to say that they've got one. If you have a Black Beauty or a Supra (which are all seamless and worth more because of it), maybe, but even then... The Black Magic has black nickel plating on not just the shell, but also the lugs and die cast hoops. But it isn't a seamless shell and I'm not even sure Ludwig makes it - they likely source that out to China or somewhere.

The Pork Pie BBB is basically the same thing without the die cast hoops (which I don't really care for anyway) and is much cheaper.

I was at GC just Friday and saw a Pacific Ace, which is another Black Beauty knock-off identical to the Pork Pie, for $199 in either 5x14 or 6.5x14.

I've seen the Ahead Black Chrome On Brass and it seems really cool. It has S-Hoops, which I really like, but it's more $$ than the Pork Pie or Pacific Ace.

I'd either go with the Pacific Ace/Pork Pie if you're on a budget, or a (used) Black Beauty if you're not. I wouldn't bother with the Black Magic.
 
The Ludwig Black Beauty is not the same shell as the Black Magic. The Black Magic shell is supposedly the same welded seam shell as the WorldMax shell.

I say supposedly because in other threads I brought this up and was trying to get a confirmation but could not.

If anybody is sure about this can they post to this thread. I would love to know for sure.
 
TTNW said:
The Ludwig Black Beauty is not the same shell as the Black Magic. The Black Magic shell is supposedly the same welded seam shell as the WorldMax shell.
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It is a welded seam. I've seen it. Why would Ludwig upgrade a Black Beauty with die cast hoops and turn around and sell it for $150 cheaper? They wouldn't. It has a seam.

Follow RKTopper's link and carefully read the description.

"Black Magic snare drums share the same shell type (<--"type" being the weasel word) with the Black Beauty (Black Over Brass, and no mention of it being seamless), but with upgrades like matching Die-Cast hoops for increased volume, and Tube-Style lugs for maximum shell resonance."
 
I have an Ahead snare and I liked it a lot better than any of the luds seam or no seam. Not a long ago I actually sat staring at the distributors lud shelv filled with goodies and after playing them all I still prefer my Ahead and my Premier and my Sonor. It is all personal preference.

xmapex
 
Thanks Mike for clarifying. I was pretty sure this was true for the same reason, but I just needed the confirmation.
 
MikeM said:
Ludwig is more in price because people love to say that they've got one. If you have a Black Beauty or a Supra (which are all seamless and worth more because of it), maybe, but even then... The Black Magic has black nickel plating on not just the shell, but also the lugs and die cast hoops. But it isn't a seamless shell and I'm not even sure Ludwig makes it - they likely source that out to China or somewhere.

The Pork Pie BBB is basically the same thing without the die cast hoops (which I don't really care for anyway) and is much cheaper.

I was at GC just Friday and saw a Pacific Ace, which is another Black Beauty knock-off identical to the Pork Pie, for $199 in either 5x14 or 6.5x14.

I've seen the Ahead Black Chrome On Brass and it seems really cool. It has S-Hoops, which I really like, but it's more $$ than the Pork Pie or Pacific Ace.

I'd probably go with the Pacific Ace or Black Beauty if you can afford it.
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Yeah, I don't really like die cast hoops too! The Pacific Ace looks awesome for the price man! I think i'm gonna cross the Ludwig out the list. Unless I find a cheap price for the Ahead, i'm gonna get the Pacific :) Thanks everyone for help !
 
xmapex2009 said:
I have an Ahead snare and I liked it a lot better than any of the luds seam or no seam. Not a long ago I actually sat staring at the distributors lud shelv filled with goodies and after playing them all I still prefer my Ahead...
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That's cool you got a chance to do that. I played a Black Beauty at GC recently and wasn't that impressed with it.

But here's the thing: I recently picked up a Ludwig Supra (LM402) that I wasn't very impressed with it either, so I started picking it apart to figure out why. First off, I think Ludwig heads are lousy, so replacing those was the first really noticeable improvement. Secondly, for some mysterious reason, Ludwig is still shipping their snares with 1.6mm hoops, which are simply weak. I tried 2.3s and die casts and both were huge improvements. I ended up putting S-Hoops on it (same as your Ahead, no?), and some Puresound Blasters and suddenly this is the only snare drum I ever want to hear again!

My point is that our reactions to new (fully stock) Ludwigs simply aren't fair. Personally, I think the fine folks over at Ludwig are fools for shipping chincy hardware/heads on otherwise stellar shells because they mask the potential of the drum.
 
I stand corrected, good eye mike, and that is why i love these drum forums!!! . . if you really wanted i could probably sell you my BOB for about $150 bucks. . I used it for about six months, so not a lot of ware and tear on it. . .
 
RKTopper said:
I stand corrected, good eye mike, and that is why i love these drum forums!!! . . if you really wanted i could probably sell you my BOB for about $150 bucks. . I used it for about six months, so not a lot of ware and tear on it. . .
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Pork Pie? What size is it :) ?
 
MikeM said:
That's cool you got a chance to do that. I played a Black Beauty at GC recently and wasn't that impressed with it.

But here's the thing: I recently picked up a Ludwig Supra (LM402) that I wasn't very impressed with it either, so I started picking it apart to figure out why. First off, I think Ludwig heads are lousy, so replacing those was the first really noticeable improvement. Secondly, for some mysterious reason, Ludwig is still shipping their snares with 1.6mm hoops, which are simply weak. I tried 2.3s and die casts and both were huge improvements. I ended up putting S-Hoops on it (same as your Ahead, no?), and some Puresound Blasters and suddenly this is the only snare drum I ever want to hear again!

My point is that our reactions to new (fully stock) Ludwigs simply aren't fair. Personally, I think the fine folks over at Ludwig are fools for shipping chincy hardware/heads on otherwise stellar shells because they mask the potential of the drum.
Click to expand...

My first S hoops came with the Ahead and since then most of my drums have them. I have to try a 14x5 bb or cob supra with S hoops and uberexpensive Sonor 24 strand steel snarewires and see what happens :)

xmapex
 
MikeM said:
My point is that our reactions to new (fully stock) Ludwigs simply aren't fair. Personally, I think the fine folks over at Ludwig are fools for shipping chincy hardware/heads on otherwise stellar shells because they mask the potential of the drum.
Click to expand...

To be fair, you can order these drums set up just how you like them with a P-86, whatever lugs, and die cast hoops. A bit more pricey, but still a lot cheaper than fancy "boutique" drums. It's just trickier to order online like this. You really need to talk to a person. Most shops just stock the cheaper versions.

-Ryan
 
volvoguy said:
To be fair, you can order these drums set up just how you like them with a P-86, whatever lugs, and die cast hoops.
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That's true, but until recently, I thought there were only two basic metal hoops: triple flanged and die cast. I prefer triple flanged, but I wasn't aware that anyone used anything less than 2.3mm and never heard of S-Hoops. If I played on a Ludwig and it didn't sound right after a good tuning, I would have just assumed it was the drum and looked for something else.

Ditto for wires. A year ago I had never heard of Puresound.

My beef with Ludwig at the moment is you need to be a pretty savvy drum gearhead with a little extra cash to get a great sound. If they were smart, they'd take a page out of the DW playbook and make sure their drums left the factory with the best parts available. They're not merely cosmetic after all - they have a big effect on the sound.

If someone wants to downgrade to 1.6mm hoops and cheapo wires because they want to sound like [insert hugely famous '70s drummer here], then they could order a drum with those, but they shouldn't be the standard defaults.
 
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MikeM said:
My beef with Ludwig at the moment is you need to be a pretty savvy drum gearhead with a little extra cash to get a great sound. If they were smart, they'd take a page out of the DW playbook and make sure their drums left the factory with the best parts available. They're not merely cosmetic after all - they have a big effect on the sound.
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Yeah...and I'd now have to agree with you. We debated this a couple of months ago, where I stubbornly defended Ludwig. After my disappointment with my Classic Maple kit, I'd have to agree with you.

The BB is an amazing snare drum, it sounds excellent. BUT...you have to replace the heads and snare wires, right out of the box. The cost was around $75 after tax, at my local Guitar Center. Add to that, my P-85 strainer is now rattling and coming loose...and this thing has never seen a bag or even so much as left my home studio.

I intend to buy a Pearl Sensitone brass in the same size, so I can compare them side-by-side. For $250-$299 it seems like a no-brainer.
 
I had this same question about a month ago and I went out on a limb and went with the Ahead. Although it was a little more expensive I am glad I did. It has the S-hoops that other have referenced before, also has "tunable" wires which I dont really think does much of anything in my experience, but it also has lugs with a nylon strip down them which helps the threads stay where they are and help detuning. I will say that I am VERY glad I went with the Ahead snare and have no regrets and it sounds awesome. I have a short sound clip of it that I recorded with the mic on my laptop (so it sucks but you can still kinda get a feel) if you would like and I could post it in here if anyone else would like to hear.
 
zambizzi said:
I intend to buy a Pearl Sensitone brass in the same size, so I can compare them side-by-side. For $250-$299 it seems like a no-brainer.
Click to expand...

I've been dying to do the same comparison. How about I meet you in Kennewick (or thereabouts) with my 6.5x14 Pearl Sensitone Brass! This Saturday work okay?
 
I have to concur with xmapex2009 and NaCk3m on the Ahead snare. Stellar. Check my posts for what I've written on it before. Lately I've been playing my surprisingly great-sounding stock snare that came with my Pro-M kit, mainly 'cause it has a great and different head on it that I'd never used but sounds fantastic. Otherwise, my 6x14 Ahead BOB is my go-to guy. [I also don't understand the Fat Cat snare wires, though...?]
 
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