Putting Die-cast hoops on snare?
- Thread starter drew510
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evolving_machine
Silver Member
The S-Hoops seem very similar to the older Slingerland, I believe they were called "Stick-Saver" hoops.
I see the S-Hoops have a section that is sort of vertical and parallel to the head, where the "Stick-Savers" kind of rolled under itself more towards the top of the rim portion.
Does anyone else remember these Slingerland rims? If so, how close are they to the S-Hoops?
I see the S-Hoops have a section that is sort of vertical and parallel to the head, where the "Stick-Savers" kind of rolled under itself more towards the top of the rim portion.
Does anyone else remember these Slingerland rims? If so, how close are they to the S-Hoops?
A
audiotech
Guest
I'm very familiar with "Stick Saver" hoops. I used them back in the late sixties and I'm currently looking at a vintage 60s set of Slingerland drums. I'm not very up to date on the "S" hoops though.
I have die cast hoops on several of my snares and have no issues with their sound compared to snares with triple flange hoops. The hoops on my Yamaha Maple Custom Absolute snare are die cast, but they're made from aluminum, making them probably the best of both worlds. The only odd ball hoops are on my DW classic snare. I believe they are 3 mm triple flanged and they are folded over the tops of themselves to add extra strength as in every other drum in the kit. You can see their thickness at the tension rods.
Dennis
Hercules
Senior Member
Love diecast hoops on wooden drums - for me they tighten up the sound and get rid of some of the unwanted ringy frequencies in pressed/rolled hoops. My 2nd choice would be wood hoops on a wooden drum.
I like triple flanged hoops on a brass snare but would like to try some cast brass hoops.....
I like triple flanged hoops on a brass snare but would like to try some cast brass hoops.....
evolving_machine
Silver Member
On my Pearl (MCX)/ Gretsch (Brass Hammered) set, I have Die cast on my snare and my toms.
I find the rim shots on all the drums are brighter. The tuning with the Die-Cast, I believe to be easier because the rims are stiffer.
It is because of a stiffer/ larger moment of inertia.
The "S" hoops and the older Slingerland "Stick-Savers" are also a stiffer rim, but not due to more material but because of the design geometry.
An "I" beam has a higher moment of inertia than an angle of the same weight and is stiffer in most directions.
The change in Die cast hoops and flange hoops is the same as to what happened in bicycles. Of course, Gretsch has been using die casts for a long time. In bicycles the tube diameter used to be 1.25" and made of steel. I hope I am not the only one that remembers bicycles made out of steel. Some bicycle companies starting using an enlarged 1.75" diameter and made of aluminum.
Aluminum is a lighter metal, but it is also not as strong. Aluminum is about 1/3 the ability to resist bending. But, to make up for that, they increased the geometry, made the section larger, the moment of inertia greater, and that made the aluminum frame able to resist bending better. It was still able to do all, that while keeping the weight lighter. Just by playing with the geometry.
The die cast rims are the same thing to the flange hoops and the "S" rims/ Slingerland Stick saver.
Trusses use this trick. Trusses that are used in a building roof and floor supports are very light and can hold an enormous amount of load for their weight.
Ok, I hope I did not put everyone to sleep there. I know I can get long winded at times.
I find the rim shots on all the drums are brighter. The tuning with the Die-Cast, I believe to be easier because the rims are stiffer.
It is because of a stiffer/ larger moment of inertia.
The "S" hoops and the older Slingerland "Stick-Savers" are also a stiffer rim, but not due to more material but because of the design geometry.
An "I" beam has a higher moment of inertia than an angle of the same weight and is stiffer in most directions.
The change in Die cast hoops and flange hoops is the same as to what happened in bicycles. Of course, Gretsch has been using die casts for a long time. In bicycles the tube diameter used to be 1.25" and made of steel. I hope I am not the only one that remembers bicycles made out of steel. Some bicycle companies starting using an enlarged 1.75" diameter and made of aluminum.
Aluminum is a lighter metal, but it is also not as strong. Aluminum is about 1/3 the ability to resist bending. But, to make up for that, they increased the geometry, made the section larger, the moment of inertia greater, and that made the aluminum frame able to resist bending better. It was still able to do all, that while keeping the weight lighter. Just by playing with the geometry.
The die cast rims are the same thing to the flange hoops and the "S" rims/ Slingerland Stick saver.
Trusses use this trick. Trusses that are used in a building roof and floor supports are very light and can hold an enormous amount of load for their weight.
Ok, I hope I did not put everyone to sleep there. I know I can get long winded at times.
TommyDaMick
Junior Member
I have a Ludwig 7x14 20 ply Birch and put S-Hoops, Coated CS Batter top, hazy ambassador bottom and Puresound Snares... made a world of Difference. I'm also getting a Tube-lug Black Beauty and the 1st thing I'll do is use the same combination... also cut my snare down to 8 strand... gets rid of any snare buzz but same response. (Gavin Harrison Trick)
S-Hoops ROCK!!
Da Mick
www.ihitthingshard.com
S-Hoops ROCK!!
Da Mick
www.ihitthingshard.com
zarrdoss
Gold Member
http://www.drumfactorydirect.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6_7_63&products_id=3563
http://www.drumfactorydirect.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6_7_63&products_id=4822
I put Die cast on my Mapex MPX 8 x 14 maple and it made a big difference, just more focused, I like it a whole lot more than the triple flanged hoops that were on it, I never have tried s hoops but hear mixed reviews. I will have to see for myself one day.
http://www.drumfactorydirect.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6_7_63&products_id=4822
I put Die cast on my Mapex MPX 8 x 14 maple and it made a big difference, just more focused, I like it a whole lot more than the triple flanged hoops that were on it, I never have tried s hoops but hear mixed reviews. I will have to see for myself one day.
simmsdn
Silver Member
Running die cast on my 5x14 Supraphonic mainly because the original hoops were rusted out (circa 1970 and I got it used). I really like die cast hoops, I'm acclimated to them now. I'm shopping for some die cast for my 6.5x14 Supra so I have the same general feel when I switch between the two drums.
I like Gibraltar's die cast hoops. Moderately inexpensive and high quality. I think several of the major manufacturers use Gibraltar's die cast hoops on their production snares. 14"/10-lug are $55-65 each.
I like Gibraltar's die cast hoops. Moderately inexpensive and high quality. I think several of the major manufacturers use Gibraltar's die cast hoops on their production snares. 14"/10-lug are $55-65 each.
Ear-piercing rim shots... man you got that right. I just put a set of die-cast on my '79 5x14 Black Beauty. OMFG...
Cmdr. Ross
Platinum Member
Good places. Don't forget Drum Factory Direct. Lots-o-parts at good prices.
TheDrummerFromAmsterdam
Platinum Member
It depends on which kind of die-cast.
I have the Yamaha aluminum on my 5,5 FRP (on my 6,5 i keep the original 2,3 hoops for a more open, deeper sound) the hoops are so light, even lighter then the Dynahoops. But they are more solid, so it gives a nice crack.
I had regular china made aluminum hoops on my older Oak toms, they shortened the decay a bit too much, but it was doable. These hoops didn't work on my 10x5 snare so I took them off after trying the top only option first.
On the PHX I use, the aluminum hoops only add rigidness like on the FRP and leave the great sustain alone.
On my coming Yamaha custom 13x7 maple snare I ordered a set of aluminum hoops too.
On my Beech Custom I like the open tone more too.
I have the Yamaha aluminum on my 5,5 FRP (on my 6,5 i keep the original 2,3 hoops for a more open, deeper sound) the hoops are so light, even lighter then the Dynahoops. But they are more solid, so it gives a nice crack.
I had regular china made aluminum hoops on my older Oak toms, they shortened the decay a bit too much, but it was doable. These hoops didn't work on my 10x5 snare so I took them off after trying the top only option first.
On the PHX I use, the aluminum hoops only add rigidness like on the FRP and leave the great sustain alone.
On my coming Yamaha custom 13x7 maple snare I ordered a set of aluminum hoops too.
On my Beech Custom I like the open tone more too.
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Odd-Arne Oseberg
Platinum Member
I have die cast hoops on almost all my snares, including my BB. I love the focus and the side stick sound.
You can really experiment with anything you like. I have flanged hoops on my Longo walnut and Club Custom. Die cast on those would defeat the purpose of the drum a bit for me, but I'd certainly be interested in trying them out with wood hoops.
You can really experiment with anything you like. I have flanged hoops on my Longo walnut and Club Custom. Die cast on those would defeat the purpose of the drum a bit for me, but I'd certainly be interested in trying them out with wood hoops.
ZildjianLover
Senior Member
My Blackstar Percussion 14 x 6.5 steel snare came with die-cast hoops that had been installed by the previous owner, and I did not like how it dried out the tone. The drum shell had also been hand-hammered by the guy the previous owner bought it from, so the die-cast hoops added insult to injury. As soon as I got rid of the die-cast hoops and the Aquarian Deep Vintage II batter head in favor of triple-flanged hoops and an Evans Power Center Reverse Dot batter head, I got that high and open Buddy Rich snare sound I had craved for years. I am sure that die-cast hoops sound great on most other snares, but they just didn't cut it on mine.