My New Ludwig Centennials (good and bad news!)

Hi All,

Back in November I ordered a set of Ludwig Centennials in green sparkle from my local Ludwig dealer. They said it would be about 8 weeks as they needed to build my order (maybe the Centennials are built to order kits? or maybe just the green sparkle was not in stock at the time?). Anyway they just came in before Christmas but I didn't have a chance to set them up until this week.

First, let me say that the green sparkle finish is stunning! It being a laquer finish, the heavy-flake-sparkle has a lot of depth to it. It's really a beautiful looking kit (see pictures below). They also sound GREAT, and that says a lot considering I am still using the stock skins; I expect they will sound even better once I put Remo Coated Emperors on them!

Although I am in love with my new Centennials, it's not all good news... This is my first Ludwig kit. It was between this and Gretsch Catalinas or Renowns for me. I ended up choosing Ludwig because of their fantastic history and their beautiful sparkle laquer finish. The kit got decent reviews all around too, but sadly I am on the fence about whether I would recommend Ludwig now. The 18" floor tom I received had some bad tear-out or chipping on the top bearing edge. What is worse is that it had been fixed in the factory with some sort of poly-fill or wood-filler. I can't believe they would send me a damaged drum! The fact that it had been "fixed" with wood filler makes me feel like I got a bad factory second. The shape of the bearing edge seems okay, but cosmetically it's UGLY (see last 2 pictures for closeups of the damage)! Anyway, I brought the tom back to my dealer and they said they would replace it for me. But wait, there's more...

The classic mini lugs on this kit have black plastic gaskets mounted underneath them. I assume this is to prevent the paint from chipping or scuffing underneath the lugs. The bass drum was MISSING a gasket under one of the lugs! Why?

Did I just get a lemon or does Ludwig have poor quality control nowadays? Some might say it's because the Centennials are made in Taiwan... but that shouldn't matter. I just paid a total of $1900 for this shell pack with the extra toms. I expected better from Ludwig.

Disappointed and confused.
Jesse

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Thats pretty poor, Bro. Did you take it back to the dealer to fix the busted bearing edge? or send it back to Ludwig directly? If you took it back to the dealer, i would be wondering whether they did even send it back to ludwig to do the repair? is it possible they did it themselves out the back and told you different?
Its hard to imagine that Ludwig would bang abit of filler in and say "fixed".
Best of luck!
Tommo
 
I just paid a total of $1900 for this shell pack with the extra toms. I expected better from Ludwig.

Disappointed and confused.
Jesse
That's a big lump of money to pay out for badly made shells, even if the finish does look great (& it does!). The "ah well, most players won't notice" thing applies to many makers, not just Ludwig. The bearing edges on my son's Pearl Vision are a joke. Got to admit it though, these Ludwigs are in a higher price band and should at least have the basics right. Those shells don't look great to me. The ply seam looks especially nasty, just as bad as a set of Pearl Masters I saw in a local store recently. You're in good company!
 
Beautiful looking kit! If possible, make sure they replace the shell with a new one. Normally, with good quality plies you do not get this sort of tear out. It looks like it was a single ply that tore out along most of the shell, which makes me think this ply might have defects deeper than just along the top bearing edge. So simply addressing the bearing edge issue could leave you with a shell that might not sound as good as it should and that might cause you problems later.

It must have been a horrible feeling seeing this after the wait. I really hope they do the right thing by you.
 
too bad, the kit looks great! i would make a point of talking to ludwig personally as well, an email to customer service would be a start, a new tom to be sure...

and remember, everyone makes mistakes (companies too), but its how those mistakes are handled that matters, give Ludwig a chance to redeem themselves and if they dont, burn them at the stake - er, i mean online ;-)

good luck, keep us posted...
 
The shape of the bearing edge seems okay, but cosmetically it's UGLY (see last 2 pictures for closeups of the damage)! Anyway, I brought the tom back to my dealer and they said they would replace it for me. But wait, there's more...

The classic mini lugs on this kit have black plastic gaskets mounted underneath them. I assume this is to prevent the paint from chipping or scuffing underneath the lugs. The bass drum was MISSING a gasket under one of the lugs! Why?
]

I have almost the same set of Centennials as you do and after close inspection they're almost perfect. I also bought a Legacy Classic kit, and those were flawless as well. I think any manufacturer is going to occasionally send out something that isn't 100%. The important thing here (hassle aside) is your dealer said they would replace the drum. I think the black gaskets are on there more for esthetic reasons. I removed them from my BB snare so they wouldn't damp the sound, but I doubt it matters on a wrap finish. I'm sure if you ask, the dealer would replace that as well.
 
Thanks guys. Just to make things clear, the dealer did not fix the shell. When I pickup up the kit before Christmas, they were still sealed in Ludwig's shipping boxes. I took the kit home and unpackaged everything myself. The wood filler had been slapped on in the Ludwig factory, which is what boggles me. I took the bad shell back to the dealer yesterday morning and they are going to get me a replacement. I also asked them about getting a replacement lug gasket. I'm told I will get a call when the new shell is in, and I should be a happy camper. The rest of the shells have nice bearing edges though. It's just sad that the 18" shell turned out to be a poor salvage job. Why Ludwig?

The reason I posted this was to share my story with other drummers. I'd like to think I just got a lemon, but if this is normal practice for Ludwig, then I could not recommend them to other drummers. I think I'll fire off an email directly to Ludwig customer support as well.
 
they were still sealed in Ludwig's shipping boxes. the 18" shell turned out to be a poor salvage job. Why Ludwig?
They tried it on, & got caught out, simple! The issue isn't that they made a mistake, that's to be expected from time to time, it's the fact that, instead of rejecting the shell, they tried to get away with a poor repair. They actively took a decision to send out something that they know to be below acceptable. That's the thing that would ring alarm bells to me. On a $150 student set, just maybe. On a $1,900 shell set, WTF????
 
...The issue isn't that they made a mistake, that's to be expected from time to time, it's the fact that, instead of rejecting the shell, they tried to get away with a poor repair. They actively took a decision to send out something that they know to be below acceptable. That's the thing that would ring alarm bells to me. On a $150 student set, just maybe. On a $1,900 shell set, WTF????

Exactly! And I am wondering if this is standard Ludwig practice... or am I the only victim?
 
They tried it on, & got caught out, simple! The issue isn't that they made a mistake, that's to be expected from time to time, it's the fact that, instead of rejecting the shell, they tried to get away with a poor repair. They actively took a decision to send out something that they know to be below acceptable. That's the thing that would ring alarm bells to me. On a $150 student set, just maybe. On a $1,900 shell set, WTF????

Now that sounds like the Old Ludwig.
Agree, that wasn't a mistake, that was sent out on purpose..meanning someone knew it was wrong and let it go out the door. Obviously that was a "Monday morning" or "Friday
afternoon" production LOL. definately no quality control that day. Ludwig should be embarrased. I hope they take care of this quickly and without any hastle.
 
The Centennials are made entirely in Taiwan, so whatever happened, was done there.
The gasket missing is weird....even Taiwan factory workers have an off day?....

It's good that you are getting a replacement with no hassle, that's how it should be.
The people at Ludwig are the type that WANT TO KNOW if something is amiss.

Yes, email Grant Henry or Kevin Packard and let them know, but also tell them it's being taken care of.

If it doesn't get taken care of, you can email them again.
They will respond, even if it takes a couple days. Grant is the head of the plant in NC.
 
Come on, Ludwig. If you're going to ship out drums with damaged bearing edges, at least do it on drums with coated heads!

That's too bad about your shell. Hopefully they'll take care of it for you. I know a guy with the same kit in green sparkle. I didn't realize it was a lacquer. A 20" deep kick is a little too tubular for me, but they sure are good looking drums. Love that mini-classic lug.
 
Yes, email Grant Henry or Kevin Packard and let them know, but also tell them it's being taken care of.... If it doesn't get taken care of, you can email them again. They will respond, even if it takes a couple days. Grant is the head of the plant in NC.

How do I find their email addresses? I cannot find them on the Ludwig website.

That's too bad about your shell. Hopefully they'll take care of it for you. I know a guy with the same kit in green sparkle. I didn't realize it was a lacquer. A 20" deep kick is a little too tubular for me, but they sure are good looking drums. Love that mini-classic lug.

Yah the lacquer is nice I must say. Yes, the 20"x24" kick drum is a cannon. Before receiving the kit I had read a lot about bass drum depth. It seems most people prefer a shallower bass drum, so I considered hiring someone professional to cut the length down a few inches, but it would have to be cut down enough to cover the existing lug holes, and a proper bearing edge would have to be cut as well. However, I thought I would give it a chance and play it for a while before trying any scary modifications. After setting it up and tuning it to my liking (I used felt strips on both heads, tuned the batter side tighter that the average guy would, trying to get that Bonham kick drum sound). I have to say I am very happy with the results. It's different than Bonham's kick drum sound, obviously due to the depth... but I don't feel the sound is inferior, just different. I like it a lot. I'm glad I got the 20"x24"; it's a great drum as is.
 
Jessie....... i feel for you.................They are beautiful looking drums....Im sure they will make it right,but its a hassle you should not have to deal with for 1900 clams. A 500 dollar shell pack is one thing but......... Did you have to pay for the kit in full when you place the order????.......My thinking is you should not have to, You should be able to holdback say 20% ????not sure as ive never special ordered a kit.........This way the buyer still has some recourse to say im not taking the kit......... or they get the final draw when you the consumer is satisfied...Not sure that would work,but it MIGHT have helped in your case............ One thing i will say for all folks who order drums this way is...When you get them, i would open them in the store before leaving just so there is no doubt your getting what you expect. Tell the store thats what your going to do when the drums arrive.........Let us know how you make out....They are gorgeous drums man great pics,and Good luck with them........
 
Before receiving the kit I had read a lot about bass drum depth. It seems most people prefer a shallower bass drum,
Don't be scared off by the "shallow is better" brigade, they're not better, just different. With deeper drums, it's all in the tuning & bearing edges. A very sharp 45 degree edge both sides is difficult to control on a deeper drum, & especially on a square size or more shell. Deeper drums produce more overtones. Treated correctly, that can work to your advantage, but only if the bearing edges, head selection & tuning method are aligned with the shell characteristics. A more rounded edge will allow greater control of those overtones. A glut of overtones, handled correctly, produces a chorus style effect that can generate a very full & deep result if kept in check. A shallow drum is simple to tune by comparison, & will always deliver more of the fundamental tone, often referred to as more focussed. If the kick depth becomes an issue to you, think in terms of head selection & tuning first, then dampening (depending on the sound you want). If all that fails, consider rounding off the bearing edges before resorting to reducing the shell depth.
 
I think any manufacturer is going to occasionally send out something that isn't 100%.

Ya think?

According to madidussion theory-Sure, there's plenty of second rate products coming out of China and India (and the USA and Australia for that matter), but that's because they are manufacturing these products for a client who is not prepared to pay for first rate QM processes.

LUDWIG chumping out on first rate QM? How did this get past an inspector that takes pride in his work?



Yup, this is how you stay competitive. Fewer drummers would have to “settle” for a less than adequate instrument, based on price alone.

Please forum, let us know when GRETSCH USA, or YAMAHA Japan, DW, even PACIFIC releases something of this quality.
 

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Please forum, let us know when GRETSCH USA, or YAMAHA Japan, DW, even PACIFIC releases something of this quality.

The ply construction and bearing edges on all three of my Yamaha Kits(Maple custom, Birch custom Absolute, hipgig Jr.) are superb. Clean, smooth and nice looking. I've never seen a made in Japan, Yahama drum with this kind of defect; they take pride in their work. I'm shocked that Ludwig sent out this drum. There was another thread where a member was showing his Classic Maples with wood filler on the bearing edges but not as bad as this.

Wayne
 
I think any manufacturer is going to occasionally send out something that isn't 100%.

Ya think?

According to madidussion theory-Sure, there's plenty of second rate products coming out of China and India (and the USA and Australia for that matter), but that's because they are manufacturing these products for a client who is not prepared to pay for first rate QM processes.

LUDWIG chumping out on first rate QM? How did this get past an inspector that takes pride in his work?



Yup, this is how you stay competitive. Fewer drummers would have to “settle” for a less than adequate instrument, based on price alone.

Please forum, let us know when GRETSCH USA, or YAMAHA Japan, DW, even PACIFIC releases something of this quality.

Just last year, DW sent an couple add on drums to a guy at the shop--who indicated all the "notes" stamped in his existing drums, so he'd get new drums that would go with them.
The 3 they sent were ALL stamped "B"...???

They have also sent totally off sized bass drum hoops for one kit, and for another, hoops so thick they wouldn't fit on the kit they were sent with....
That's DW USA not Pacific.

Gretsch has gotten colors completely wrong --even from samples sent.

Have not heard of anything bad coming from Yamaha, not really surprised by that though. They make awesome stuff IMO, just not my preferred sound.
Their hardware is great, never had an issue with it.

HAVE had issues with quite a few DW wing nuts going on really difficultly, while others just spin on smoothly. How THAT gets through is a real question! Someone has to actually put the dang things ON the stand. Can't they tell it's hard to thread it on???

The stuff with Ludwig has popped up here and there, but, again, in 35 years, I've never had a bad drum or edge come from them. I had a shell come in not "as black" as my other Sable Black drums and sent it back. Got a new one in a few weeks, no problem, and it was perfect.
Other than that, I've been good on every single thing.

That Centennial shells edge is a BAD job all around. Surprised it went out (or got out)--especially since it wasn't "hidden" by a coated head.

They can sell it on eBay as a "scratch and dent" and not loose anything on it anyway.

Someone would probably be tickled to get an 18 at a low price being as the edge is OK, it just looks like crap.

Go on Facebook, and send Grant Henry a message--at least to let let him know of the issue and that it's getting looked into (and hopefully, quickly resolved).
Here's a link:
facebook.com/granthenrygranthenry
 
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