My New Ludwig Centennials (good and bad news!)

Just last year, DW sent an couple add on drums to a guy at the shop--who indicated all the "notes" stamped in his existing drums, so he'd get new drums that would go with them.
The 3 they sent were ALL stamped "B"...???


Possession of one ounce (28.5 gms) or less of marijuana is an infraction, punishable by a maximum $100 fine (plus fees) with no criminal record under California Health & Safety Code 11357b. So a B 'can' look like an E, or maybe even a C depending on how stoned you are that day... minor infraction.


That Centennial shells edge is a BAD job all around. Surprised it went out (or got out)--especially since it wasn't "hidden" by a coated head.

Could've been a bad pollution day in Taiwan, the (hopefully proud) QC manager might've been feeling the effects.

This is 'way worse' than a colour snafu, unacceptable!

Maybe LUDWIG'S highly-trained Taiwanese staff doesn't expect consumers to notice the mess with the head(s) on.
 
Drums are as much a purchase of the heart as they are a purchase of the mind. The real story here, is someone who's invested their hard earned money, & faith in an instrument brand, feels let down. Not because there's been a mistake, but because an employee in Ludwig's organisation, entrusted with deciding what's acceptable, perceived him as someone who isn't deserving of their best attention. That may sound a bit over the top personal, but something like this is personal to the customer on the receiving end.

This is so much worse than simply making a mistake. It's the deception element that leaves the bad taste. I'm sure the customer focussed employees of Ludwig will be appauled at this, & I hope they go the extra mile to establish renewed faith in the brand with jesseleite.
 
In any manufacturing endeavor, there is a procedure for dealing with discrepant or non-conforming material. A shell with a tear out or exposed void gets pulled off the line. And that's good.

What happens next is the issue in play. Someone decides if the defect can be ignored (called UAI or use as is), whether it can be repaired or reworked, of if it is a lost cause and the product has to be scrapped. For any product line, someone in a management position decides what the criteria will be. Often, a standard repair procedure will be created to deal with common but repairable defects.

It's pretty obvious from this case, that for this product line, Ludwig (or someone in the plant) has decided that filler repairs are an acceptable solution to voids in the bearing edge. That filler didn't just jump into the void and get faired in all by itself. Someone had to invest the time and energy into this repair. Meaning that this sort of repair is considered acceptable to Ludwig.

Now on higher end product lines, the criteria may be higher. Just as in lower end lines the criteria may be looser. This is common when products are built to a cost target.
 
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Someone had to invest the time an energy into this repair. Meaning that this sort of repair is considered acceptable to Ludwig.

Really?

Anyone still want to plop-down and wait 8 weeks to gamble on some CENTENNIAL'S?
 
Someone had to invest the time an energy into this repair. Meaning that this sort of repair is considered acceptable to Ludwig.

Really?

Anyone still want to plop-down and wait 8 weeks to gamble on some CENTENNIAL'S?

I wouldn't, and that's why I said to contact the company. Some one in that plant thought it was OK to do it, but it still ultimately falls in Ludwig's (Selmer's) lap.

They can't do anything about it unless they know it's not acceptable to the customer(s).

I wouldn't find this acceptable in the Performance series DW is putting out either (or a Renown etc..)
Kit's like these (from all the makers) are NOT a $499 GC kit.

They cost "less" but they aren't cheap by any means.
I wouldn't accept this kind of drum, or expect it to come from a kit I paid 1K or more for....neither is the OP, and is getting a new drum, but still.

That DW Performance series is OVER 1K for most anything. That's not a "intermediate kit" IMO. It's a PRO kit. You don't get all the fancy stuff (most of which is marketing hype), but you're supposed to get a quality kit for your dough when shelling out that much.
I hope people have good luck with them (I added up what I would like and it was over $2,300!!).

The Centennials, have a lacquer finish, and use the SAME wood as a CM. It's just built where it's cheaper labor, and it's limited in sizes.

It's STILL expensive IMO, and a fix like that is no way acceptable in a kit that cost close to 2K.
But, they DID say no problem and are getting the customer a new drum.

I really think the Ludwig company should know about this problem so they can keep it from happening, because if they don't know, and no one tells them, nothings gonna fix the problem.

It doesn't matter what brand anyone plays, none of us need shoddy things being accepted out in the market place.

It's bad enough that it was patched, but for it to not even be the same color or close to it in the patch??? That even makes it worse to me. The edge might be baby butt smooth, but it's YELLOW filler forcryinoutloud.
A seam patch, in a real close matching filler wouldn't bother me so much if it was mine, but a "no way is it close, all over an edge" patch is not cool.
Not for a kit that costs this much ($1,900!!!)...PLUS the wait for the boat to get to the States on top of it.
 
You guys are jumping overboard. I think some of you live to rip on the big companies...

I am willing to bet that if the edge is smooth and level that none of us could tell the difference between this drum and the new and improved one blind folded...

It is only a cosmetic repair. That's all.

Jesse, sorry your drums are flawed, but as long as they take care of the problem, is it really a problem? Hassle, yes, but problem??
 
In any manufacturing endeavor, there is a procedure for dealing with discrepant or non-conforming material. A shell with a tear out or exposed void gets pulled off the line. And that's good.

What happens next is the issue in play. Someone decides if the defect can be ignored (called UAI or use as is), whether it can be repaired or reworked, of if it is a lost cause and the product has to be scrapped. For any product line, someone in a management position decides what the criteria will be. Often, a standard repair procedure will be created to deal with common but repairable defects.

It's pretty obvious from this case, that for this product line, Ludwig (or someone in the plant) has decided that filler repairs are an acceptable solution to voids in the bearing edge. That filler didn't just jump into the void and get faired in all by itself. Someone had to invest the time and energy into this repair. Meaning that this sort of repair is considered acceptable to Ludwig.

Now on higher end product lines, the criteria may be higher. Just as in lower end lines the criteria may be looser. This is common when products are built to a cost target.

Its also pretty obvious, to me anyway, that whoever that someone is, his ass should be rolling out the door.Ludwig with all their history Shame on you. Christ its not a entry level kit...For 2 grand the quality control guy failed miserably.Wonder what else got out that day.........
 
I'm less shocked than many of you. Stuff happens. It's a bummer, but stuff happens.

As long as he eventually get his replacement, it shouldn't be a big deal.

There are an awful lot of people on the planet really happy with their Ludwigs.

I agree a rework like that shouldn't happen on a high end kit, but, we can't generalize
about general Ludwig GC or that particular plant because of one incident. It could have
been the escape of - one hung over worker. :)

Enjoy the kit.
 
After reading this thread, I feel like the only kits to trust are Yamaha, Canopus, Pork Pie, Noble & Cooley, and stuff like D'Amico--either high-end quality control at a factory or guaranteed quality at a small shop.

It has always appeared that Yamaha's QC is the best for mass-produced drums.
 
I guess it can happen to anybody, with any brand of drums. Like "keep it simple" said above though, drums are a purchase of the heart and this was my dream kit. It's the 4th drum kit I've owned, the most expensive I've owned, and none of my other cheaper kits shipped with problems like this (for the record I've had cheaper Yamaha, Tama, and Premier kits). So yah it's just disappointing, but I am calming down about the issue. I must say I am really enjoying the rest of the kit. I can't wait to put Remo Emperors on it too. I love the kit. If this kind of issue was common with Ludwig then I don't think I could recommend them to others.... but if I just got a fluke lemon because someone was hung over, then fair enough, I got myself a nice kit. My new tom should be coming, and then I'll be good.

I never meant this to be a Ludwig bashing thread, but I think it's important that consumers share their experiences. This was my experience... take what you want from it. It's a nice kit, but it still should not have happened on a $1900 shell pack.
 
You guys are jumping overboard. I think some of you live to rip on the big companies...

For the love of god man, lets be thankful DRUMMERWORLD has experienced forum members who are willing and able to rat this garbage out.

Think of us as just another form of quality control, albeit after the fact, still informative/useful for future reference. In a lot of cases, our combined eyes and experience is greater than the people the manufactures employ to produce this stuff.



I am willing to bet that if the edge is smooth and level that none of us could tell the difference between this drum and the new and improved one blind folded...


You 'might' be able to get a job at LUDWIGS Taiwan plant with that attitude.


Hey where's LUDWIG emissary BERMUDA and what's his take on this? That's a juicy one we're still waiting for.


I never meant this to be a Ludwig bashing thread, but I think it's important that consumers share their experiences.

It 'is' important and its healthy... for us and them. All the Nancy's posting here really need to get over the fact that people have and are entitled to an opinion, the squeaky wheel gets the grease.



I personally don't dislike any drum company, just like I don't dislike any style of music, its all just music and I'll play any of it, just like the drum companies are all doing the same thing... only companies need to be kept in line, the truth needs to be told, no deceiving the public for monetary gain, if that's the least anyone gets out of these threads that's an accomplishment.
 
This wouldn't be the result of a hung over worker, a router divot in an edge, or the missing gasket maybe. But to fill a void and fair it in takes time and several steps. I even think it would be hard for a worker to sneak this in if they were trying to hide some mistake. It takes too long and has to go too many places in the factory to get filled, cured and recut. If the resulting edge is true, then it is primarily a cosmetic issue. I doubt that the slight damping effect of filler that close to the edge of the shell is going to make an audible difference.

The reality is that these are mid line drums, not top line or custom. Some compromises are being made to hit that mid price point. You're getting sparkle lacquer finishes, and shells close to the top line drums. If having void free shells where each ply is carefully selected to be straight and even grained like a furniture veneer, then it's going to cost you. And you're probably going to have to go to a custom builder.

What you can get these days in the mid-line marketplace is amazing. As good or better than most top line stuff from the 60's. With much better hardware. And adjusting for inflation, for a much better price.
 
The reality is that these are mid line drums, not top line or custom. Some compromises are being made to hit that mid price point. You're getting sparkle lacquer finishes, and shells close to the top line drums. If having void free shells where each ply is carefully selected to be straight and even grained like a furniture veneer, then it's going to cost you. And you're probably going to have to go to a custom builder.

I agree: this was precisely my point made two posts back. If you want a guarantee on supreme quality of shell, finish, lugs, etc., then it is safer to go with Pork Pie, N&C, Spaun, or other trustworthy, high-end custom drum shops--or, go with high-end gear from Yamaha or others. Folks at PP, N&C, Spaun, D'Amico and others custom finish their bearing edges, which means there is a less likely chance of getting a lemon kit.

Of course, I think this still doesn't excuse the sloppy work of Ludwig. If they are going to import gear from Taiwan like others do and put their name on it, the least they can do is have someone at the Ludwig shop do a full body check on the gear. I think GMS supposedly does this kind of check on their SL gear they import from Asia.
 
I doubt that the slight damping effect of filler that close to the edge of the shell is going to make an audible difference.

The reality is that these are mid line drums, not top line or custom. Some compromises are being made to hit that mid price point. You're getting sparkle lacquer finishes, and shells close to the top line drums.


If you want a guarantee on supreme quality of shell, finish, lugs, etc., then it is safer to go with Pork Pie, N&C, Spaun, or other trustworthy, high-end custom drum shops--or, go with high-end.........which means there is a less likely chance of getting a lemon kit.


If this is the consensus at LUDWIG it will hurt their reputation in the budget market as we've not seen examples of shoddy workmanship of this degree from the competition... yet anyway.



Actually looks like a random 40 year old shell that separated and someone did work on it, not a shell that came from a 2010, not good for LUDWIG.

Its threads like this most companies don't want to respond to on forums, they just ignore it and hope it goes away.

jesseleite paid $1900 US for this, its not a $500 kit and we're not in the 60's anymore.
 

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jesseleite paid $1900 US for this, its not a $500 kit and we're not in the 60's anymore.

And he's getting a new shell.. problem solved..

I am willing to bet that if the edge is smooth and level that none of us could tell the difference between this drum and the new and improved one blind folded...


You 'might' be able to get a job at LUDWIGS Taiwan plant with that attitude.

Had I done the repair, I guarantee not even you, Les would be able to tell...
 
I should clarify $1900 CDN, but I think USD and CDN are pretty comparable right now. The drum kit's retail value might vary in Canada here though.
I am willing to bet that if the edge is smooth and level that none of us could tell the difference between this drum and the new and improved one blind folded...
Yes I agree, the edge is smooth. With my eyes closed, I probably could not tell the difference myself. It's the *look* of the repair job that's disappointing to see on a $1900 kit. The point is that this is a new kit. It may not be "high end" to some, but $1900 is a lot of money. If you were to spend $1900 on a brand new Yamaha, Pearl, Pork Pie, DW, Tama, etc., would a repair job one one of those kits be acceptable to you? Looks are important too ;) To each his own... I am still disappointed in Ludwig. I have to say my dealer has been great in helping to replace the drum though. I will soon find out an ETA for the replacement shell. I wouldn't be surprised if I have to wait several weeks again, but at least they are replacing it.
 
I don't blame you jesseleite, if I saw a repair on my new Gretsch Renowns like that, I would have a fit. There is no excuse to send new drums out with shell repairs, I really don't care what their cost might have been.

I've been looking at Legacys and Maple Classics lately and this puts a very bad taste in my mouth.

Dennis
 
Hey audiotech, maybe others can confirm this, but the Legacys and Classic Maples are made in the States (I think), whereas the Centennials are made in Taiwan. So they are made in totally different factories with different quality control (obviously, I have learned this the hard way). Even though mine were made in Taiwan, I expected better. I would hope that if you paid the premium to get an American kit, like the Legacys or the Classic Maples, that you would definitely NOT run into the same problems as I have ...I would hope!
 
I believe that you're correct. The thing is, if a company puts their name on a product, they should take full responsibility for the quality of that product. In no way is Ludwig the only drum maker that has had shell problems. In fact I've personally seen a shell from a well know USA company that had a severe split on the inner ply of it's shell, new from the factory. The company did make good including an apology from the company.

Problems happen, it's definitely the way the drum company addresses the concerns of the individual that is paramount.

Dennis
 
First of all congrats jesseleite on your beautiful kit!

Also on getting the replacement drum!

Now....I'm probably gonna take flack for this.

But.

Some wood filler on a drum isn't a huge deal. It happens. Companies make a drum and then something goes wrong while routing the bearing edge (maybe an overheated or dulled bit) and instead of scrapping the wrap AND the shell you put some wood filler in it.

The drum still sounds great, plays great, and feels great. Getting a 7 piece maple shell pack in a laquer finish for under $2000 is amazing! Unfriggin heard of until recently and this is bound to happen. We're not talking about a high end $4000 for 5 piece drum set. We're talking about an intermediate kit.

When you're making drums in Taiwan you're worried about margins, and throwing out a hundred dollar wrapped shell as compared to putting some wood filler in it makes a lot more sense.

I've had nothing but great experiences with Ludwig Centennials as they are one of (if not) the best sounding drums in the price range. I will admit that i love Ludwig drums to anyone who asks and I'm willing to take heat for this one.

But again....maple shell.....7 pieces... lacquer...actually tunes well....seriously....they tune up like a drum...and they sound great.

I rest my case
 
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