French Grip - A surprising revelation

Ytsephill

Member
So I had a lesson yesterday, where we were discussing speed and finger control.
I thought that I was using my fingers to its maximum potential by using match grip, and that with time and practice those higher speeds (rudiment wise) would come.

Well yesterday, my teacher was telling me I was barely using my fingers when going at higher speeds.
For example, a double stroke roll, when playing it faster I use no fingers at all and just press the stick using my fulcrum (if that makes any sense). Doing so, results in a not so good double stroke, at least for me.

So, what he made it seem was that French Grip is essential for higher speeds, so I can use my fingers and have better control. I was very shocked upon hearing this being that, I've been playing matched since I started (7 years ago), and for this past year have been working hardd on rudiments to get my hands up to shape..

.. And now I hear that, basically matched grip can only get me so far, and that I should've been practicing French Grip as well.
When I tried using it on rudiments, I was quickly frustrated at how uncomfortable I was. I'm slowly getting there now, and really realizing the speeds I can get to with minimal effort.

After hearing this, I went to check out some of my favorite drum vids and started noticing drummers like Dennis Chambers, using it when he does those blazing single stroke rolls across the toms.


Your thoughts on this?

EDIT: Should mention that I'm studying Jazz.
 
well first, french grip IS matched grip, one form of it, the other being German. (french=palms in, german=palms down).

fingers can be well utilized in German grip, here's an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZnUmdtrbeo not quite jazz... but I'm a metal guy, so that's the reference I know. his left hand is kind of in between, but when he goes to the right on the snare, its pretty palm-down.

always a good idea to practice both though
 
To elaborate on what Bretton said, matched grip purely refers to gripping the sticks the same with each hand. It doesn't specify which grip e.g. French, German or American.

Matched grip is in contrast to traditional grip. French grip is in contrast to German grip, with American grip being in between. However there is no need to limit yourself to only one grip.

A lot of drummers switch grips depending on the situation or application. You can use fingers or no fingers with any of them as well.

French may be traditionally more fingers and German more wrist, but there are no 'rules'. I generally like American grip as I feel it gives the best of both worlds.

Experiment and see what works best for you.
 
I find switching to French grip a bit of a problem as my hands naturally draw to the centre of my body say 5 and 7 on a snare clock and I suddenly find I'm too close to the snare to be able to play full French grip. My normal German/American position is more like 4 and 8 o'clock and my body is not in the way.

Anyone experience this?

Davo
 
I find switching to French grip a bit of a problem as my hands naturally draw to the centre of my body say 5 and 7 on a snare clock and I suddenly find I'm too close to the snare to be able to play full French grip. My normal German/American position is more like 4 and 8 o'clock and my body is not in the way.

Anyone experience this?

Davo

I can relate to that. I have started sitting a little further back lately though which has helped, but I mostly play German/American grip (and use fingers). It's all in a state of flux though, constantly experimenting at the moment.
 
I can relate to that. I have started sitting a little further back lately though which has helped, but I mostly play German/American grip (and use fingers). It's all in a state of flux though, constantly experimenting at the moment.

Does Bob have you holding with the last two fingers a bit? A lot of his guys come out with that approach - i.e. Wilkinson, Small, etc.
 
Does Bob have you holding with the last two fingers a bit? A lot of his guys come out with that approach - i.e. Wilkinson, Small, etc.

Hmm no not yet, we've really only looked at bounce doubles so far which is taking a while for me to get working well. We are doing that with a more German grip; usual thumb and 1st finger fulcrum and then using the fingers to catch/help the second note of the bounce, if that makes sense. My left hand is sucking a bit though at the moment.

He did mention the 2nd finger fulcrum too which I used to use a lot, but said I should learn to control 1st finger fulcrum first (or something like that, don't want to put words in his mouth without showing much context).

We are basically just trying to get my hands working better, which makes a big change to the play-along oriented lessons from 14 years ago (for the better). On my induction lesson he asked me to show him my paradiddles - they were so pathetic I was embarressed, which is why we are looking at just hand technique for now (and also because I requested we do that).
 
of course

you should always use multiple grips when playing kit

many drummers theory is....... including mine.. ....when going around the kit....if you are in American on the snare by the time you get to the floor you should be in French

I play ride cymbal in nothing but French grip....some hi hat things as well

playing only one grip is like eating PB&J 3 times a day 365 days a year ....you will stay alive.....but not getting much nutrients
 
of course

you should always use multiple grips when playing kit

many drummers theory is....... including mine.. ....when going around the kit....if you are in American on the snare by the time you get to the floor you should be in French

I play ride cymbal in nothing but French grip....some hi hat things as well

playing only one grip is like eating PB&J 3 times a day 365 days a year ....you will stay alive.....but not getting much nutrients

Makes sense, though from watching youtube vids it seems to vary. From what I can see at least, Emmanuelle Caplette for instance seems to keep what looks to me like an German/American grip pretty much all round the kit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQs6fZnPiuE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U52ezW-E5p8

I like watching her vids as she seems very smooth generally (to me).

I probably obsess too much about grip because of the physical issues I've had over the years with my right hand. I think I'm only realising now just how loose "loose" is really meant to be. I always thought I was loose enough because I do not get blisters or calluses, but I don't think so anymore.
 
I can see me going down this road, which is:

LH = American grip
RH = American/French grip.

So for RH, French on Ride and American on hats, snare and toms.

I simply cannot do French on my LH - instead of going up and down in a vertical arc the stick performs a beautiful ellipse. I can't seem to do anything about it.

Some wise person will say I need to practice more ...

Davo
 
I can see me going down this road, which is:

LH = American grip
RH = American/French grip.

So for RH, French on Ride and American on hats, snare and toms.

I simply cannot do French on my LH - instead of going up and down in a vertical arc the stick performs a beautiful ellipse. I can't seem to do anything about it.

Some wise person will say I need to practice more ...

Davo

you need to practice more
 
(...) Some wise person will say I need to practice more ...
And I'm not even wise ;-)

You guessed it... Reset yourself to beginner mode, haha. You will do it... If you start _slowly_. Keep at it. If you're serious then you'll get it. If you don't feel being limited in your playing as is you might not need to bother though. It's your style.
 
Well a month later of practicing French Grip and the results are SHOCKING.

I used to play 32nd notes using the American Grip, and I could not go further than a couple of bars without it being sloppy or without resorting to that "moeller motion" on my right hand accenting on each quarter note.

Fast forward a month and I'm doing 32nd notes EFFORTLESSLY, for almost as many bars I wish (depending on the speed of course). I don't even get tired. I can do them evenly without having to accent. The stick almost bounces of my hand even.

Of course I'm still no pro at French Grip, but man am I excited for the results it gave me.

I'm guessing some of you will find this little discovery of mine kind of silly, being that it's somewhat obvious, but for those that is not I want to spread the word and say: START PRACTICING THIS.

PS: Just re-read my post and it sounds like a chessy ad for a product: "French Grip is the way to go!"
 
Well a month later of practicing French Grip and the results are SHOCKING.

I used to play 32nd notes using the American Grip, and I could not go further than a couple of bars without it being sloppy or without resorting to that "moeller motion" on my right hand accenting on each quarter note.

Fast forward a month and I'm doing 32nd notes EFFORTLESSLY, for almost as many bars I wish (depending on the speed of course). I don't even get tired. I can do them evenly without having to accent. The stick almost bounces of my hand even.

Of course I'm still no pro at French Grip, but man am I excited for the results it gave me.

I'm guessing some of you will find this little discovery of mine kind of silly, being that it's somewhat obvious, but for those that is not I want to spread the word and say: START PRACTICING THIS.

PS: Just re-read my post and it sounds like a chessy ad for a product: "French Grip is the way to go!"
I can relate to this. I'm currently having a major battle against tension/unrelaxedness in my playing, which obviously leads to poor playing, tiredness etc. French grip seems to be a good answer to this -- letting the stick do nearly all the work -- and I'm thinking I may major on French grip for a little while to reset the tension out of my playing
 
Here's another example of what french grip and great finger control can do for you, as demonstrated by Keith Carlock:

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/keithcarlockmdsolo.html

This video alone made me want to work on that whole area. A couple of months practice opened up my playing a lot, especially my left hand. Nowhere near Keith's monster chops, but a noticeable difference all the same!

Great to hear it's working for you! I love it when you can see real improvement in your playing.
 
Also a useful idea instead of focusing on one grip for everything or even for each piece switch between them. I like french for swing stuff on ride, american in general and german is there if i start getting tired for some reason. By switching between grips you change which muscle groups are being used giving the other ones a break which increases your endurance. I actually kinda stole the idea from Randy Couture apparently he does a similar thing while fighting. Try all grips in all areas, and don't forget you can do free stroke (Gladstone) or whipping (Moeller) with all these grips.
 
This is a great thread. One of my problems is I practice with a German Grip, palms down, and my single strokes cook along nicely and when I stop concentrating, the grip turns toward France, makes my hand look like an ashtray.

Had a drum teacher a while back tell me nobody wants to see an ashtray, keep the palms down. When I choose German, for me, it keeps my hands cleaner but then I drift. Kind of weird. Appreciate you bringing this up.

J
 
As much as we want to simplify things into any one given way works and solves all the problems...

German grip and French grip both have distinct advantages and disadvantages, American grip is the best of both worlds without the maximum benefit(s) of either. The ability to play them all well without slicing is ideal and your body will default to the position that makes the task at hand the easiest once all of the options are programmed into your muscle memory. You'll never have to think about technique once you have more than enough options and abilities to say whatever you want to musically.
 
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