Mounting my drums kills sustain

EricT43

Senior Member
No sure if this belongs here or in the Other Gear thread, but here I go...

I have a mid-90's Premier XPK Fusion kit (10/12/14/16/22). I seem to recall that the shells are birch with a eucalyptus veneer, but it's been a while so I could be wrong. All four toms mount to tom holders with an L-bracket. Overall I am fairly happy with it. They look nice, sound good, and the hardware still looks like new.

Recently I replaced all of the heads and got to tuning them up. Off the kit, I would get a nice tone with good sustain, but then when I put the drum on the mount, it sounds totally dead. Take it off and hold it by the rim and it sounds great again. Long story short, I had to re-tune every tom once I mounted it. My guess is that mounting the drum completely changes the fundamental, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

After re-tuning, I was able to dial in a good sound and plenty of sustain. Obviously that's an inconvenience, because it's difficult to tune the reso head when its on the kit. I just wonder if I have these toms rim-mounted if I could get an even better sound than what I have? Or should I just save the ~$400 that would cost me and sell my Premiers and buy a new kit?
 
I had that problem with my imperialstars. I could get the exact sound I wanted, but when I mounted them, everything changed. With four toms I don't know what to tell you. You could try a snare stand with one rack tom, but if that isn't your style, I don't know what to tell you.
 
After doing much reading years ago about the yess mounting and rims mounts when I was changing heads on my yamaha kit I decided to do and experiment. My tom mounts are the older through shell mounts yamaha had. I pushed my toms all the way on the way I always had and had someone else hit them. I then moved them half way off the mount and had someone play them. WOW what a difference!!! The tone of the drum really started opening up. So from then on out I started mounting my toms half way on the mount so that if it did protrude into the shell it was an 1/8" at most. Really like how my kit started sounding when doing that and have kept it that way since. Might try that with yours.
 
Konaboy:

Are you talking about these kind of mounts?

Are you saying if I don't push the rod all the way to the felt on the tom, I might get a better sound?

Thanks.

DV016_Jpg_Large_1274115032793_A.jpg
 
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After doing much reading years ago about the yess mounting and rims mounts when I was changing heads on my yamaha kit I decided to do and experiment. My tom mounts are the older through shell mounts yamaha had. I pushed my toms all the way on the way I always had and had someone else hit them. I then moved them half way off the mount and had someone play them. WOW what a difference!!! The tone of the drum really started opening up. So from then on out I started mounting my toms half way on the mount so that if it did protrude into the shell it was an 1/8" at most. Really like how my kit started sounding when doing that and have kept it that way since. Might try that with yours.

I discovered the same thing in the 80's. I turned my tom holder around, so that the 3rd hole was closest to me, and the two tom holes were farther away. That way I could pull the toms all the way out to the end of the hex rod. I also realized that other things on the tom holder could affect the sustain. When I started using a splash on a mini boom, I had to place it in a certain position, or it would kill one of the toms. That whole unit vibrates, when a drum is hit.
Eric, I think you can get some R.I.M.S. type tom mounts without spending a lot of money. I bought 2 Tama universal star cast mounts, for I think around $30. My son has them on his Ludwigs now. I think Pearls cheaper system might work good. The kind that came on the vision drums. There is 1 out now called, Suspenderz by Cannon. Gibraltar has 2 different ones. These might help, they hold the drum by the hoop, instead of the shell. It lets the drum vibrate more. Prices are $29-$45 depending on the size.
 
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Konaboy:

Are you talking about these kind of mounts?

Are you saying if I don't push the rod all the way to the felt on the tom, I might get a better sound?

Thanks.

DV016_Jpg_Large_1274115032793_A.jpg

That is the current yess mounting system, the rod does not go through the drum therefore giving more resonance and tone. The felt is there just to protect the shell from getting hit by the end of the hex rod yamaha uses. Mine are the pre-yess mounts where the rod actually goes into the drum. Here are a few pics of how I have them mounted so that I get more tone from the drum. I use to push the tom all the way up on the hex mount, now as you can see in the pic it's only about half way on.



 
I discovered the same thing in the 80's. I turned my tom holder around, so that the 3rd hole was closest to me, and the two tom holes were farther away. That way I could pull the toms all the way out to the end of the hex rod. I also realized that other things on the tom holder could affect the sustain. When I started using a splash on a mini boom, I had to place it in a certain position, or it would kill one of the toms. That whole unit vibrates, when a drum is hit.
Eric, I think you can get some R.I.M.S. type tom mounts without spending a lot of money. I bought 2 Tama universal star cast mounts, for I think around $30. My son has them on his Ludwigs now. I think Pearls cheaper system might work good. The kind that came on the vision drums. There is 1 out now called, Suspenderz by Cannon. Gibraltar has 2 different ones. These might help, they hold the drum by the hoop, instead of the shell. It lets the drum vibrate more. Prices are $29-$45 depending on the size.

Thanks for the info. I wasn't aware of anything besides RIMS and the Tama mounts, which look pretty ugly from what I've seen. The Gibraltar mounts are less than half the cost of R.I.M.S. Has anyone here used them? Are they good quality?
 
How do you tune a drum that's not mounted? When i replace heads, i may take the tom off to change it but the final tune is always done mounted. how do you hold it?
 
How do you tune a drum that's not mounted? When i replace heads, i may take the tom off to change it but the final tune is always done mounted. how do you hold it?

Well, I rest the drum on a towel to mute the head I'm not tuning. That way I can make sure the lugs are all tuned to the same pitch. I use a drum tuning app on my phone to help with this, because my ear is not accurate enough. Flip it over and do the same with the other side. Then I lift the drum and hold it by the rim and strike it to see how it sounds. Decide if either head needs to be higher or lower, and repeat the process until I'm satisfied.
 
Well, I rest the drum on a towel to mute the head I'm not tuning. That way I can make sure the lugs are all tuned to the same pitch. I use a drum tuning app on my phone to help with this, because my ear is not accurate enough. Flip it over and do the same with the other side. Then I lift the drum and hold it by the rim and strike it to see how it sounds. Decide if either head needs to be higher or lower, and repeat the process until I'm satisfied.

your creating your own problem. also, how could you get any sustain at all from resting the reso side on a towel???? if I put a tom on a carpeted floor it kills it. mount and tune guys, mount and tune!
 
your creating your own problem. mount and tune guys, mount and tune!

I don't know any drummers that tune toms while they're mounted. Fine tuning, maybe at a gig? Yes, but tuning a tom from scratch? Nope. I'll sit on the floor or the couch and tune one side at a time, then fine tune both heads until I like what I hear.

To the OP- Are your tom mounts mounted in the middle of the shell? If so, that's probably the issue. The mount is right where the shell wants to vibrate the most. You could drill new holes and move the mount higher, at the nodal point, or like others have said, get some suspension mounts. Either method should solve the problem.
 
your creating your own problem. also, how could you get any sustain at all from resting the reso side on a towel???? if I put a tom on a carpeted floor it kills it. mount and tune guys, mount and tune!

When I'm trying to pitch-match the lugs on the batter side, I don't want to hear the reso side, that just gets in the way. I just do that when I'm making sure the tension is even all around the head. Then I pick up the drum to strike it and see how it sounds.

So yeah, you could say that my tuning method is the problem and not the drums. I do find it much easier to tune the drum when it's off the kit, though, because doing what I described above is much more difficult when you have to mute one of the heads with your hand. I'm just not good or experienced enough at tuning to tune a wide open tom by ear alone.
 
I don't know any drummers that tune toms while they're mounted. Fine tuning, maybe at a gig? Yes, but tuning a tom from scratch? Nope. I'll sit on the floor or the couch and tune one side at a time, then fine tune both heads until I like what I hear.

QUOTE]

when I place a tom on the floor and hit it, the note isn't even the same as when its mounted. it usually sounds higher and its not reacting off of the reso or the timbre from the shell? has the world gone crazy?? I tune with a key in one hand and a stick in another while its mounted. Iwhere did you learn to tune like that?
 
I don't know any drummers that tune toms while they're mounted. Fine tuning, maybe at a gig? Yes, but tuning a tom from scratch? Nope. I'll sit on the floor or the couch and tune one side at a time, then fine tune both heads until I like what I hear.

To the OP- Are your tom mounts mounted in the middle of the shell? If so, that's probably the issue. The mount is right where the shell wants to vibrate the most. You could drill new holes and move the mount higher, at the nodal point, or like others have said, get some suspension mounts. Either method should solve the problem.

Hi Gish, the tom mounts are close to the middle of the shell for the smaller toms, and nearer to the top on the larger ones...basically they are all equidistant from the batter head to the mount. I am considering some suspension mounts. I may just order one to see how much of a difference it makes. I believe that besides making tuning easier, I ought to get a better sound when the mass of the tom holder is removed from the drum and nothing is restricting the shell resonance aside from the lugs.
 
I don't know any drummers that tune toms while they're mounted. Fine tuning, maybe at a gig? Yes, but tuning a tom from scratch? Nope. I'll sit on the floor or the couch and tune one side at a time, then fine tune both heads until I like what I hear.

QUOTE]

when I place a tom on the floor and hit it, the note isn't even the same as when its mounted. it usually sounds higher and its not reacting off of the reso or the timbre from the shell? has the world gone crazy?? I tune with a key in one hand and a stick in another while its mounted. Iwhere did you learn to tune like that?

First of all, Hi, how you doin? Sorry if I came off confrontational there, it wasn't intended. If your tuning method works for you, then thats all that matters. I find tuning toms while mounted to be a pain in the you-know-what. I don't like contorting my 6'5" body to get to the bottom lugs lol. I'm not one of those tune-to-the-shell timbre guys, either. What's the point of having a drum that only tunes to one note? I like to alter my tuning from time to time, sometimes I'm in the mood to crank 'em up like Bonham, sometimes I like them low and growling. But me personally, I tune one head at a time and while doing so, I DO NOT want to hear what the other head is doing. To my mind, if I'm hearing a response from bottom head, its not letting me hear if the top head is in tune, and vice versa. I like to get each head in tune to itself, then work on the relation between both heads. Sometimes I like both heads the same, sometimes reso tighter, sometimes batter tighter. The only mounting system that's ever given me fits is Pearl ISS (absolute garbage, IMO).
 
On the yamaha yess mounts, in case this has not been sorted out, the old ones punctured the shell and the rod goes into it. On the new drums the rod does not puncture the shell. I currently have 2 yamaha kits one with and one without the new yess mounts. I can get a good tone out of both but I do think not having the rod in the shell helps. Rims mounts, gaguer mounts, and other mounts of that style could be used to re mount if someone wanted to. In response to the price of the new kits vs parts that is up to you. Personally I would just buy a nice used kit.
 
when I place a tom on the floor and hit it, the note isn't even the same as when its mounted. it usually sounds higher and its not reacting off of the reso

I was just thinking about this while tuning yesterday. the tone is completely dead, high and dry, when the other head is muted.

I have my rack tom on a separate stand with a clamp on an L-mount and what I did was I moved the stand slightly away from the bass drum and flipped the drum to a 90 degree angle, so that I had access to both heads while still having the drum mounted.


I swear, everytime I think I finally get a grip on tuning drums, I do something the exact opposite the next time and swear by it all over again.
 
The Old Hyde: when I place a tom on the floor and hit it, the note isn't even the same as when its mounted. it usually sounds higher and its not reacting off of the reso or the timbre from the shell? has the world gone crazy?? I tune with a key in one hand and a stick in another while its mounted. Iwhere did you learn to tune like that?

To get the head in tune with itself it's better to isolate it, hence putting the drum on a towl, carpet, etc. to kill the other head. It's not so unusual. Have you never watched a Bob Gatzen video?
 
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