Struggling with Renowns

L

Lennytoons

Senior Member
I've had a set of Maple Gretsch Renowns since 2013 and I've finally concluded that they are very hard to tune. I have five other kits that I never have a problem with regardless of the heads I choose. IMO the Renowns favor a higher tuning and really can't do "wet, fat, deep, modern." I have tried six or seven different heads for these drums and still I'm not satisfied with the way they sound. Fit and finish is immaculate, bearing edges are perfect but they just aren't doing it for me. Looks like they are headed to Ebay soon unless I can solve the riddle. Thing is, I've always prided myself in being able to tune drums to get the max out of them. Any ideas?
 
Do they have diecast hoops or the 302 hoops? I find diecast hoops to be really difficult to get low tunings on because they flex way too easily when tension is put on them leading to wildly different pitches at each lug. When a bit more tension is put on them they are easier to get tuned up and evened out, but low tension is a problem.

I don't mind diecast hoops for snares, but for toms I find them difficult to work with.
 
I had 2 gretsch sets in 2004/5. I couldn't make friends with the 5 lug tuning. I tried, but I need an even amount of lugs on my drums. And I agree with TommyD, die casts on toms are detrimental compared to a lighter hoop.

I don't understand Gretsch's thinking on the 5 lug rack toms. Yea you save 2 lugs a drum, but the DC hoops eat up the savings and more, plus they make it a heavier drum which inhibits sustain and resonance. And the odd lug thing just makes it impossible for me to tune the way I prefer, using "tuning lines" between opposite lugs. There are no opposite lugs on Gretsch rack toms. Too bad too because I liked all the other aspects of the drums. The floor toms and bass drum were even lugged, why the inconsistency? I don't get it. Skimping on 2 lugs per rack...is cheap thinking IMO.
 
Tommy_D said:
Do they have diecast hoops or the 302 hoops? I find diecast hoops to be really difficult to get low tunings on because they flex way too easily when tension is put on them leading to wildly different pitches at each lug. When a bit more tension is put on them they are easier to get tuned up and evened out, but low tension is a problem.

I don't mind diecast hoops for snares, but for toms I find them difficult to work with.
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They are diecast hoops. I have considered trying a 2.3mm triple flange hoop on them just to see. My Session Series kit has 2.3mm super hoops and I can tune those drums up, down or in between and get a great tone.
 
Lennytoons said:
They are diecast hoops. I have considered trying a 2.3mm triple flange hoop on them just to see. My Session Series kit has 2.3mm super hoops and I can tune those drums up, down or in between and get a great tone.
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Unfortunately, a swap isn't the easiest of things to do because of Larry's comments about 5 lug drums. You can buy new hoops at drum factory direct, but I would try swapping the floor tom hoops first and see if that allows you tune the drum lower.
 
larryace said:
I had 2 gretsch sets in 2004/5. I couldn't make friends with the 5 lug tuning. I tried, but I need an even amount of lugs on my drums. And I agree with TommyD, die casts on toms are detrimental compared to a lighter hoop.

I don't understand Gretsch's thinking on the 5 lug rack toms. Yea you save 2 lugs a drum, but the DC hoops eat up the savings and more, plus they make it a heavier drum which inhibits sustain and resonance. And the odd lug thing just makes it impossible for me to tune the way I prefer, using "tuning lines" between opposite lugs. There are no opposite lugs on Gretsch rack toms. Too bad too because I liked all the other aspects of the drums. The floor toms and bass drum were even lugged, why the inconsistency? I don't get it. Skimping on 2 lugs per rack...is cheap thinking IMO.
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Honestly, I think its the diecast hoops more than it is the odd lug pattern. I had good luck tuning my Catalina Maples and those had 5 lugs on the 8/10/12 toms. Just use the normal star pattern like you are replacing a car tire. But every one is different.

There are strange theories out there (pretty much by Tama and their 11 lug snare drum) that the odd number of lugs creates a larger sweet spot in the center of the drum:

http://www.tamadrum.co.jp/anniversary/expansion.php?cat_id=89&now=6
 
I had a 12x10 Gretsch Broadkaster (90s), and a full kit of USA Customs (80s) with 10x8, 12x8, and 13x9 toms. Die cast hoops on all, and they sounded great. Tuning took a little getting used to on the 5-lug drums, but I got the hang of it. I don't really tune for that flappy, wet sound though.
 
Tommy_D said:
Do they have diecast hoops or the 302 hoops? I find diecast hoops to be really difficult to get low tunings on because they flex way too easily when tension is put on them leading to wildly different pitches at each lug.
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I've always heard the opposite about diecast hoops. Aren't they supposed to flex less than triple flanged? That's why when you tighten one rod, the ones next to it get looser. You really need even tension at all lugs with diecast. They're far less forgiving.
 
OP never said what heads he's using which to me would be question #1.
 
cutaway79 said:
I've always heard the opposite about diecast hoops. Aren't they supposed to flex less than triple flanged? That's why when you tighten one rod, the ones next to it get looser. You really need even tension at all lugs with diecast. They're far less forgiving.
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Yeah, that's kind of what I was getting at but didn't explain it very well. This is why I find tuning low with diecast difficult because you tighten one lug, the whole rim flexes and the neighboring lugs are rattling loose. So you tighten those and the neighboring ones go loose. Tighen, loose, tighten, loose... Finally you get the rods to stop rattling and your drums is tuned higher than you want. Ugg...
 
Tommy_D said:
Yeah, that's kind of what I was getting at but didn't explain it very well. This is why I find tuning low with diecast difficult because you tighten one lug, the whole rim flexes and the neighboring lugs are rattling loose. So you tighten those and the neighboring ones go loose. Tighen, loose, tighten, loose... Finally you get the rods to stop rattling and your drums is tuned higher than you want. Ugg...
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Totally. Not a big fan of diecasts for that exact reason. I've heard plenty of good sounding drums with diecast, but triple flanged hoops seem to tune up (and down) easier, and stay in tune better.
 
As for heads, So far I've tried:
Evans G2 clear over G1s.
Evans G2 coated over G1s.
Ec2s over G1s
Aquarian Response 2 over Classic Clear
Coated Ambassadors over Classic clears and Ambassador clears
Performance 2s over Classic Clears
Pinstripes over G1s and Classic Clears
All sound a bit different of course but none really hit the sweet spot.
 
Renown's are one of the most solid kit's on the market, they get recommended on this site all the time and sound amazing. The 5 lug deal is a bit tricky and takes some getting used to but once their in tune they stay there and sing like a bird. It takes smaller increments in turn's when tuning then 6 lug tom's as 1/4 turn's will take you too far. Or it could be you just got a bad apple.
 
I have used Evans G2 over G1 for most of the time with my Renown and have no issues. My only question is, are you trying to make them sound like another set of drums? If you are you may fail. Renown sound like Renown. I can't believe you've had them for 5 years and haven't figured them out yet. There is no secret, just do the reso's first then the batter, and tune in little turns, on the five lug tune in a circle every other lug as you go.
 
Well I am biased as i own a shell bank of Pearl Session Studio Classics. I've played a few Renown kits and have found them to be rather thin sounding. Put 'em on Ebay!!!
 
larryace said:
I don't understand Gretsch's thinking on the 5 lug rack toms.
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Andy has been trumpeting for years how less crap and hardware on the drums can absolutely be a positive attribute. From a "mass" perspective it should be fine... From a tension and structure perspective, I can't help but notice tons of 5 spoke car wheels.

I guess what I'm saying is that if you're able to get the same sound from a tap at each lug, it shouldn't really matter how many lugs there are if they are even to each other.

Anyhoo, I use a set like is being described here every week for the last 7 years at one venue I play and it's never been hard to tune up or didn't sound good.

Guess I'm just not prone to blame the number of lugs. Could be a bad drum, or have an issue on one of the lugs or something, but the number thing I don't get.
 
Do you gig or is the set living in your house? If it doesn't leave the house have you tried setting up in a different room?
 
I don't own a renown kit, but have a 12" Catalina on my son's kit. The drum sounds better than it has a right to, and I've had no problems tuning it up with only 5 lugs.
 
The new classics have die cast hoops and I have no problem getting them to go low as I like, but the low tuning drops off quickly to a thud. Mine work best in mid to mid low tuning and high tuning on the opposite end of the spectrum.

The 302 hoops might help but even those are heavy. What about trying the hoops used on Catalina’s? I’d invest in one hoop for the drum that bugs you the most and give it a try.
 
I suspect die cast hoops will accentuate any defects in either the hoop or the drum bearing edge. As previously mentioned, die cast won't flex as much as triple flange, but if the drum bearing edge is perfect and level, and the hoop is perfectly level at it's contact point, it shouldn't need to flex. I've had no problem with my die cast hoops on my Tama SCs (knock on wood). ;)
 
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