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  #41  
Old 03-31-2014, 09:48 AM
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Default Re: My bizarre, ego-destroying experience

Dunno... God could have walked into the room, but if he was uninvited I would have told him where to go...

If I saw the guy in the hallway or parking lot or something and he mentioned something I'd take it under advisement, but traipsing into the room and giving an unsolicited "lesson" is a bit of a stretch...
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  #42  
Old 03-31-2014, 10:10 AM
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Default Re: My bizarre, ego-destroying experience

I and band rehearse in quite a rough part of Manchester...

Someone comes barging in with a case that looks like it could potentially have a machine gun inside it and we're jumping on him and kicking his head in THEN asking what he wants

Great story...one of the weirdest things I've ever heard happen.
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  #43  
Old 03-31-2014, 10:17 AM
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Default Re: My bizarre, ego-destroying experience

It wasn't THIS guy (Piles Husain) was it ?

:-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IOPQ3SQ15w
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  #44  
Old 03-31-2014, 01:27 PM
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Default Re: My bizarre, ego-destroying experience

To the OP: I think that guys actions were inconsiderate, unsolicited, unprofessional, uncalled for and downright rude.

Try not to let it get to you. Easier said than done I know, but he's not worth your time
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  #45  
Old 03-31-2014, 04:35 PM
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Default Re: My bizarre, ego-destroying experience

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Originally Posted by Midnite Zephyr View Post
The guitarist band leader in my jam band is never happy with my drumming. He is always pushing for more (or less) in certain situation. Some of our conversations leave me very demoralized, and he destroys my ego on a regular basis.
I always look for the positive of the situation. I believe the guy who barged in was a one time thing and it obviously lit a fire.

Your situation seems to be very different. If you bandmate is telling you to try this or try that in a positive tone, that's one thing. But if you are being ripped down in a negative tone, that is unacceptable.

I would suggest you have a chat with him about this and explain that you are happy to hear suggestions and if you are doing something wrong that can be identified, you will work on fixing it. But if he continues to leave you demoralized you will have to leave. You are on dangerous ground here, because it is a human nature thing that you risk loosing your confidence if you are continually brought down.

Hope this is helpful.
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  #46  
Old 03-31-2014, 09:00 PM
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Default Re: My bizarre, ego-destroying experience

Never trust feedback from someone who does not have enough self control to act in a civil manner. Abusive feedback is an ego game designed to feed the person giving...not the person receiving. There is a potential to really damage your own self-perception if you start buying into such hogwash...treat such people as what they are...self indulgant children...and pity them while ignoring them....such abuse seems a common way to drive a musicians $ expectations down....

...and run, dont walk, from any professional situation that is like that...IMHO(without compromising your professionality, that is ; ). You are worth more than any money tied to abusive behavior....and no...I dont care who(m) it is.

Find a good teacher and start from there if you have concerns...
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  #47  
Old 03-31-2014, 09:03 PM
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Default Re: My bizarre, ego-destroying experience

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Originally Posted by Otto View Post
Never trust feedback from someone who does not have enough self control to act in a civil manner. Abusive feedback is an ego game designed to feed the person giving...not the person receiving. There is a potential to really damage your own self-perception if you start buying into such hogwash...treat such people as what they are...self indulgant children...and pity them while ignoring them.

...and run, dont walk, from any professional situation that is like that...IMHO. You are worth more than any money tied to abusive behavior.
fantastic response and more eloquently stated than a 3 paragraph rambling that I would have typed to result in the very same point
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  #48  
Old 03-31-2014, 09:26 PM
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Default Re: My bizarre, ego-destroying experience

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Originally Posted by Otto View Post
Never trust feedback from someone who does not have enough self control to act in a civil manner. Abusive feedback is an ego game designed to feed the person giving...not the person receiving. There is a potential to really damage your own self-perception if you start buying into such hogwash...treat such people as what they are...self indulgant children...and pity them while ignoring them....such abuse seems a common way to drive a musicians $ expectations down....

...and run, dont walk, from any professional situation that is like that...IMHO(without compromising your professionality, that is ; ). You are worth more than any money tied to abusive behavior....and no...I dont care who(m) it is.

Find a good teacher and start from there if you have concerns...
Well said...almost poetic that !
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  #49  
Old 03-31-2014, 09:26 PM
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Default Re: My bizarre, ego-destroying experience

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Originally Posted by Otto View Post
Never trust feedback from someone who does not have enough self control to act in a civil manner. Abusive feedback is an ego game designed to feed the person giving...not the person receiving. There is a potential to really damage your own self-perception if you start buying into such hogwash...treat such people as what they are...self indulgant children...and pity them while ignoring them....such abuse seems a common way to drive a musicians $ expectations down....

...and run, dont walk, from any professional situation that is like that...IMHO(without compromising your professionality, that is ; ). You are worth more than any money tied to abusive behavior....and no...I dont care who(m) it is.

Find a good teacher and start from there if you have concerns...
+1. Ants is right, this says it all. The highlighted part, especially.
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  #50  
Old 03-31-2014, 09:32 PM
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Default Re: My bizarre, ego-destroying experience

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Originally Posted by Otto View Post
Never trust feedback from someone who does not have enough self control to act in a civil manner. Abusive feedback is an ego game designed to feed the person giving...not the person receiving. There is a potential to really damage your own self-perception if you start buying into such hogwash...treat such people as what they are...self indulgant children...and pity them while ignoring them....such abuse seems a common way to drive a musicians $ expectations down....

...and run, dont walk, from any professional situation that is like that...IMHO(without compromising your professionality, that is ; ). You are worth more than any money tied to abusive behavior....and no...I dont care who(m) it is.

Find a good teacher and start from there if you have concerns...
^^^ Wise words - as ever.
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  #51  
Old 03-31-2014, 09:44 PM
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Default Re: My bizarre, ego-destroying experience

To be fair, I have been the one giving harsh feedback...thinking that it was the height of honesty and respect.

Hogwash!

There is no 'independant truth' once a person starts talking...it is the person talking...saying what they think...which includes an emotional aspect that if ignored, can state volumes that you might not intend.

Giving respect and, for fear of being to 'flower-child-ish', love - as long as that reflects what you are feeling - should be the target.


...more than one way to deconstruct an over-inflated ego...especially your own! ; )
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  #52  
Old 03-31-2014, 10:13 PM
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Default Re: My bizarre, ego-destroying experience

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Originally Posted by toddmc View Post
By your definition, Lars Ulrich is the greatest drummer who ever lived?
I've made this joke about Ringo Starr. He's the richest so he must be the best.
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  #53  
Old 03-31-2014, 10:17 PM
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Default Re: My bizarre, ego-destroying experience

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I've made this joke about Ringo Starr. He's the richest so he must be the best.
You haven't been here long, have you?

You won't know the one unwritten rule of this board...
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  #54  
Old 03-31-2014, 11:08 PM
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Default Re: My bizarre, ego-destroying experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto View Post
To be fair, I have been the one giving harsh feedback...thinking that it was the height of honesty and respect.

Hogwash!

There is no 'independant truth' once a person starts talking...it is the person talking...saying what they think...which includes an emotional aspect that if ignored, can state volumes that you might not intend.

Giving respect and, for fear of being to 'flower-child-ish', love - as long as that reflects what you are feeling - should be the target.


...more than one way to deconstruct an over-inflated ego...especially your own! ; )
All the more respect to you, Otto. Anybody can talk the talk. Changing the way you walk, though (in a manner of speaking): that's worthy of admiration.
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  #55  
Old 04-01-2014, 01:50 AM
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Default Re: My bizarre, ego-destroying experience

Well one night I was playing a gig down in San Diego and this little guy, older cat comes up to me and starts laying into me about "Man you're doin' all this other stuff that you ought now be doing, it's all superfluous...you're playing jazz fusion over the blues and you're pissing off the old cat up front trying to keep up with you...stop doing that, man!"

I was a bit taken aback but it was coming from Paul Kimbarow, the guy who taught Steve Jordan and a bunch of other NYC cats "back in the day". http://www.zoominfo.com/p/Paul-Kimbarow/44726544

To this day Paul and I are friends and that ass-chewing set me straight enough to become one of the working cats in town. It was a harsh lesson but it was a necessary one.

Question is, "can you put your ego in the back seat?"
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  #56  
Old 04-01-2014, 02:19 AM
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Default Re: My bizarre, ego-destroying experience

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Originally Posted by BillRayDrums View Post
Well one night I was playing a gig down in San Diego and this little guy, older cat comes up to me and starts laying into me about "Man you're doin' all this other stuff that you ought now be doing, it's all superfluous...you're playing jazz fusion over the blues and you're pissing off the old cat up front trying to keep up with you...stop doing that, man!"

I was a bit taken aback but it was coming from Paul Kimbarow, the guy who taught Steve Jordan and a bunch of other NYC cats "back in the day". http://www.zoominfo.com/p/Paul-Kimbarow/44726544

To this day Paul and I are friends and that ass-chewing set me straight enough to become one of the working cats in town. It was a harsh lesson but it was a necessary one.

Question is, "can you put your ego in the back seat?"
You're honestly gonna tell me that's the same as some cat you've never heard of and whose credentials are nothing but a mystery, bowling uninvited into your reharsal room and pulling apart the very thing you're woodshedding in the first place? Man, not even close.

He wasn't on the bandstand. He wasn't walking all over other players at a live gig that people had laid down their hard earned to see. He wasn't taking money out of anyone's pocket. He wasn't "live rehearsing" on someone else's dime and bringing everyone else down with him in the process.

He was woodshedding something he couldn't do. WTF are you supposed to do in the woodshed? Isn't that why you spend hours in the practice room to begin with? So why then would anyone think it's acceptable for some turkey to walk in and tear you apart for it?

There is no parallel between a wise old journeyman offering some sage, yet harsh words of advice for something you've done on a stage in front of a live paying audience and some uncredentialed twit barging into a rehearsal and demoralising you for bothering to rehearse in the first place. Daylight separates the two scenarios IMHO.

I reckon you're asking the wrong guy to check his ego here, mate.

Last edited by Pocket-full-of-gold; 04-01-2014 at 02:56 AM.
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  #57  
Old 04-01-2014, 03:17 AM
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Default Re: My bizarre, ego-destroying experience

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Originally Posted by ncc View Post
I always look for the positive of the situation. I believe the guy who barged in was a one time thing and it obviously lit a fire.

Your situation seems to be very different. If you bandmate is telling you to try this or try that in a positive tone, that's one thing. But if you are being ripped down in a negative tone, that is unacceptable.

I would suggest you have a chat with him about this and explain that you are happy to hear suggestions and if you are doing something wrong that can be identified, you will work on fixing it. But if he continues to leave you demoralized you will have to leave. You are on dangerous ground here, because it is a human nature thing that you risk loosing your confidence if you are continually brought down.

Hope this is helpful.
I agree and I think you are right. I just wanted to let the OP know that I can understand that feeling of getting your ego destroyed. I don't want to make it about me.

I am happy to hear suggestions from my band mate, and I can handle some joking around. Luckily, I have another band with a group of guys that do the exact opposite, and they always have good things to say. This can over-inflate the ego too, I don't really buy into all that praise stuff either. It's a strange balance. In one band I feel like nothing I do is right ( I'm exaggerating a little), and in the other band I feel like all the kind words they give me about my playing makes me very uncomfortable.

I'm not quitting anything just yet, but I agree, ncc, that he needs to tone it down some because it is bringing me down. These guys are like brothers to me, so sometimes people like that don't see you in a more professional light perhaps. They forget about certain boundaries, and he only does it because I let him get away with it. Thanks for your advice.
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  #58  
Old 04-01-2014, 03:22 AM
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Default Re: My bizarre, ego-destroying experience

I think the way one takes criticism, no matter where it comes from, reveals that person's overall measure of security with themselves.
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  #59  
Old 04-01-2014, 03:46 AM
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Default Re: My bizarre, ego-destroying experience

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Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold View Post
You're honestly gonna tell me that's the same as some cat you've never heard of and whose credentials are nothing but a mystery, bowling uninvited into your reharsal room and pulling apart the very thing you're woodshedding in the first place? Man, not even close.

He wasn't on the bandstand. He wasn't walking all over other players at a live gig that people had laid down their hard earned to see. He wasn't taking money out of anyone's pocket. He wasn't "live rehearsing" on someone else's dime and bringing everyone else down with him in the process.

He was woodshedding something he couldn't do. WTF are you supposed to do in the woodshed? Isn't that why you spend hours in the practice room to begin with? So why then would anyone think it's acceptable for some turkey to walk in and tear you apart for it?

There is no parallel between a wise old journeyman offering some sage, yet harsh words of advice for something you've done on a stage in front of a live paying audience and some uncredentialed twit barging into a rehearsal and demoralising you for bothering to rehearse in the first place. Daylight separates the two scenarios IMHO.

I reckon you're asking the wrong guy to check his ego here, mate.

LOL, yeah I realized that AFTER I posted! And you're right, I got too hung up on one facet of the argument.

And with that I humbly apologize for my oversight in weighing what really went down. After going back and re-reading the thread, got my bearings straight.
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  #60  
Old 04-01-2014, 04:01 AM
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Default Re: My bizarre, ego-destroying experience

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You haven't been here long, have you?

You won't know the one unwritten rule of this board...
Nope.....wait.....nope.
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  #61  
Old 04-01-2014, 10:09 AM
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Default Re: My bizarre, ego-destroying experience

I apologize, but this whole thread reminds me of one of my favorite songs: Dire Straits "Sultans of Swing"

And a crowd of young boys they're fooling around in the corner
Drunk and dressed in their best brown baggies and their platform soles
They don't give a damn about any trumpet playing band
It ain't what they call rock and roll

And the Sultans played Creole
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  #62  
Old 04-01-2014, 05:06 PM
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Default Re: My bizarre, ego-destroying experience

That guy sounds like a wiener. But, unfortunately, you're going meet a TON of people like that on your journey through life as a musician. Regardless of whether he, or anybody else, had anything worthy to say, you've got to learn to use that stuff to inspire you, not defeat you. If he's got something good to say, take it in, and use it to your advantage. If he doesn't, just let it roll off. It's not worth the anguish.

Best of luck.
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  #63  
Old 04-01-2014, 06:12 PM
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Default Re: My bizarre, ego-destroying experience

The "here're the sticks, show me what you mean" trick would have worked here too...
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  #64  
Old 04-01-2014, 10:01 PM
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Default Re: My bizarre, ego-destroying experience

Wow! Un-freaking-believable! THAT is cockiness and egotism at it's very best. Although it sounds like your trumpet friend meant well, his timing and delivery was horrible.

I agree with picodon The "here're the sticks, show me what you mean" trick would have worked here too...
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