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Old 05-18-2018, 07:10 AM
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Default 100,000 Years Shuffle

I am new to Drummerworld, and I hope this thread type hasn’t been duplicated - I have always liked shuffles. The three that are often praised are the Lido shuffle, Roseanna, and Fool in the rain. I liked Rosanna due to its driving cut time beat as Fool in the rain is a very smooth groove shuffle, and Lido is more straightforward. But what do you all think of Peter Criss’ 100,000 Years shuffle version from Kiss Alive? Especially right before his drum solo it is more pronounced to where you can here the triplets on the bass drum as well. Keep in mind this song was made in 73-74 as the aforementioned are a little later in the 70’s. And if you have any other shuffle variants feel free to bring them up as I would like to hear some more original grooves.
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Old 05-18-2018, 08:49 AM
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Default Re: 100,000 Years Shuffle

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ransan View Post
I am new to Drummerworld, and I hope this thread type hasn’t been duplicated - I have always liked shuffles. The three that are often praised are the Lido shuffle, Roseanna, and Fool in the rain. I liked Rosanna due to its driving cut time beat as Fool in the rain is a very smooth groove shuffle, and Lido is more straightforward. But what do you all think of Peter Criss’ 100,000 Years shuffle version from Kiss Alive? Especially right before his drum solo it is more pronounced to where you can here the triplets on the bass drum as well. Keep in mind this song was made in 73-74 as the aforementioned are a little later in the 70’s. And if you have any other shuffle variants feel free to bring them up as I would like to hear some more original grooves.
What about the shuffle Peter Criss played for "Detroit Rock City"? That's a shuffle too, you know.

Or was it Bernard Purdie playing that one? Coulda been Jim Keltner or Earl Palmer, too. Or if they recorded in NYC it could've been Gary Chester!

What I found interesting about Peter Criss' shuffles, is that his hands are basically just playing triplets, whereas on a real shuffle, there's some double-stopping going on where both hands are playing the same rhythm. I tend to think of Peter Criss' style of shuffling the "easy power" way to do it. Which isn't wrong, it just worked right for the music he was playing. But I'm not sure it would work for anything else.
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Old 05-18-2018, 03:15 PM
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Default Re: 100,000 Years Shuffle

Ahh The Purdie! I can not believe I forgot that one- I do know that one is legendary. Yes Peter does overlay triplets with his hands accenting a back beat on snare, as he accents triplets on the bass drum. Another one I forgot was Steely Dans Reeling in the years- 1973. When I first heard that as a young un I had no concept of ghost notes and thought the drummer was just accenting on the hi hats, sounded complex. I do agree with your assessment of Criss groove, as more of a power type with the nuances of a shuffle.Thanks for your input Bo!
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Old 05-18-2018, 03:54 PM
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Default Re: 100,000 Years Shuffle

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Originally Posted by Ransan View Post
I am new to Drummerworld, and I hope this thread type hasn’t been duplicated - I have always liked shuffles. The three that are often praised are the Lido shuffle, Roseanna, and Fool in the rain. I liked Rosanna due to its driving cut time beat as Fool in the rain is a very smooth groove shuffle, and Lido is more straightforward. But what do you all think of Peter Criss’ 100,000 Years shuffle version from Kiss Alive? Especially right before his drum solo it is more pronounced to where you can here the triplets on the bass drum as well. Keep in mind this song was made in 73-74 as the aforementioned are a little later in the 70’s. And if you have any other shuffle variants feel free to bring them up as I would like to hear some more original grooves.
This is my favorite shuffle. Jason McGerr from Death Cab for Cutie.
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Old 05-18-2018, 04:37 PM
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Default Re: 100,000 Years Shuffle

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Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
What about the shuffle Peter Criss played for "Detroit Rock City"? That's a shuffle too, you know.

Or was it Bernard Purdie playing that one? Coulda been Jim Keltner or Earl Palmer, too. Or if they recorded in NYC it could've been Gary Chester!
.
I think Bob Ezrin as producer liked to use Allan Schwartzberg a lot. He's not credited but none of these guys were supposed to 'tattle' in later years that it was not Peter C.Good Shuffle all the same.
One of the fastest,hardest shuffles to pull off is My Own Way to Rock (Burton Cummings) with Jeff Porcaro on drums. Its incredible the speed he keeps, really quite a workout.
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Old 05-18-2018, 05:31 PM
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Default Re: 100,000 Years Shuffle

Dont forget Charlie Freak, Steely Dan with Jim Gordon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCxeHVFL1v8

Then, of course.....the ultimate in half time shuffling

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WcNWFPB6yg
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Old 05-18-2018, 05:36 PM
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Default Re: 100,000 Years Shuffle

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Originally Posted by BradGunnerSGT View Post
This is my favorite shuffle. Jason McGerr from Death Cab for Cutie.
Very cool. Steve Gadd does this too.
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Old 05-18-2018, 05:48 PM
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Default Re: 100,000 Years Shuffle

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Originally Posted by opentune View Post
One of the fastest,hardest shuffles to pull off is My Own Way to Rock (Burton Cummings) with Jeff Porcaro on drums. Its incredible the speed he keeps, really quite a workout.
There's a track off the 7th One (These Chains) which is a half time Purdiesque shuffle but it's fast for half time and really works the ghosting on your left hand. Jeffs shuffles were fast.

Gotta love a good shuffle, my favourite groove by a country mile. It's a happy little groove to give it the Bob Ross treatment.
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Old 05-18-2018, 05:51 PM
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Default Re: 100,000 Years Shuffle

For sure, if Bob Ross was a drummer, and I like to think he was, I believe he'd play shuffles exclusively.
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Old 05-18-2018, 10:35 PM
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Default Re: 100,000 Years Shuffle

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Originally Posted by BradGunnerSGT View Post
This is my favorite shuffle. Jason McGerr from Death Cab for Cutie.
Are u talking about Grapevine fires, if so I did pulll that one up and man is that a smooth one!
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Old 05-18-2018, 10:38 PM
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Default Re: 100,000 Years Shuffle

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Originally Posted by BradGunnerSGT View Post
This is my favorite shuffle. Jason McGerr from Death Cab for Cutie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by opentune View Post
I think Bob Ezrin as producer liked to use Allan Schwartzberg a lot. He's not credited but none of these guys were supposed to 'tattle' in later years that it was not Peter C.Good Shuffle all the same.
One of the fastest,hardest shuffles to pull off is My Own Way to Rock (Burton Cummings) with Jeff Porcaro on drums. Its incredible the speed he keeps, really quite a workout.
Oh man I knew Kiss used ghost musicians as the credit on albums seemed to go to the originals. Did not think that was until around the Dynasty album. I’m going to have to sort through this and look into it. I did notice that Criss’ drumming became more lackadaisical just look at Dressed to Kill then go to Destroyer, maybe I’m giving Peter too much credit. Thanks for the informative post!
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  #12  
Old 05-18-2018, 10:40 PM
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Default Re: 100,000 Years Shuffle

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Originally Posted by J-Boogie View Post
For sure, if Bob Ross was a drummer, and I like to think he was, I believe he'd play shuffles exclusively.
Nice! Bob Ross was what a shuffle would become if it took human form. So did he have “the stroke” or was it all groove?
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Old 05-18-2018, 10:46 PM
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Default Re: 100,000 Years Shuffle

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Originally Posted by opentune View Post
I think Bob Ezrin as producer liked to use Allan Schwartzberg a lot. He's not credited but none of these guys were supposed to 'tattle' in later years that it was not Peter C.Good Shuffle all the same.
One of the fastest,hardest shuffles to pull off is My Own Way to Rock (Burton Cummings) with Jeff Porcaro on drums. Its incredible the speed he keeps, really quite a workout.
Dude that hand is doing 32 notes on this song! The way it starts u know it’s got the momentum to glide through. Kinda reminds me of Ronnie Tutt’s shuffle from “Way on Down” - thanks for the recommended tune. Burton was a beast in his trade (“Laughing” is a nice song), aside from the hits, I’m only old enough to know a few of B sides from his works.
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Old 05-18-2018, 10:50 PM
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Default Re: 100,000 Years Shuffle

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Originally Posted by mikyok View Post
There's a track off the 7th One (These Chains) which is a half time Purdiesque shuffle but it's fast for half time and really works the ghosting on your left hand. Jeffs shuffles were fast.

Gotta love a good shuffle, my favourite groove by a country mile. It's a happy little groove to give it the Bob Ross treatment.
That’s a hypnotic one - “These Chains” sounds like a 6/8 metered swing shuffle.

Last edited by Ransan; 05-18-2018 at 10:52 PM. Reason: Additional comments
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Old 05-18-2018, 10:55 PM
J-Boogie J-Boogie is offline
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Default Re: 100,000 Years Shuffle

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Originally Posted by Ransan View Post
Nice! Bob Ross was what a shuffle would become if it took human form. So did he have “the stroke” or was it all groove?
I dont know, but whatever it was it was happy and perhaps little. I know Jim Gordon did stuff with Burton, have seen some cool videos, havent really checked out the Jeff/Burton stuff. If its Jeff, Im sure the groove is deadly.
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Old 05-18-2018, 10:59 PM
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Default Re: 100,000 Years Shuffle

Also thinking along these lines, Frank Beard’s work on “Tush” is a nice feel, and the single fill on the break kills! You guys have just opened up my mind extensively to where the back beats prevail👍
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Old 05-19-2018, 12:15 AM
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Default Re: 100,000 Years Shuffle

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Oh man I knew Kiss used ghost musicians as the credit on albums seemed to go to the originals. Did not think that was until around the Dynasty album. I’m going to have to sort through this and look into it.
the info came from this thread/interview

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...ighlight=criss
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Old 05-19-2018, 05:51 AM
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Default Re: 100,000 Years Shuffle

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Originally Posted by opentune View Post
the info came from this thread/interview

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...ighlight=criss
Thanks for the read, appreciated! Really insightful and did not realize the few solid stable of ghosts that carried so many of the drummers images for them. Appreciate the knowledge drops by Steve B - God Bless him!
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Old 05-21-2018, 03:00 AM
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Default Re: 100,000 Years Shuffle

Mama off TOTO Hydra...killer shuffle.

How about some of these...

Put this together recently...shuffles after the first few samba grooves;

https://youtu.be/2YnU3lw1KAE

Isolated Porcaro shuffle off TOTO I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gam3PVDp2wE



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Old 05-21-2018, 05:21 AM
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Default Re: 100,000 Years Shuffle

I'm sure there have been ghost drummers on any number of KISS tracks, but in the referenced interview, the earliest album even mentioned as a possibility was Destroyer, and 100,000 Years came way before that. The drumming on ALIVE is certainly Peter Criss, back in the heyday.

Anyway, I like that groove a lot, though I'm not even sure it's technically a shuffle. I think of it as a 6/8 groove. Through most of the song, Peter is playing quarter notes on the hats, and a kind of linear pattern between the bass and snare. In the solo, he switches things up. It's a lot of fun!

I loved that album and it was a huge influence on me when it was released. I was 13 and had just started drumming the year before, so it was perfect timing, lol.
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Old 05-21-2018, 06:28 AM
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Default Re: 100,000 Years Shuffle

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Originally Posted by IDDrummer View Post
I'm sure there have been ghost drummers on any number of KISS tracks, but in the referenced interview, the earliest album even mentioned as a possibility was Destroyer, and 100,000 Years came way before that. The drumming on ALIVE is certainly Peter Criss, back in the heyday.

Anyway, I like that groove a lot, though I'm not even sure it's technically a shuffle. I think of it as a 6/8 groove. Through most of the song, Peter is playing quarter notes on the hats, and a kind of linear pattern between the bass and snare. In the solo, he switches things up. It's a lot of fun!

I loved that album and it was a huge influence on me when it was released. I was 13 and had just started drumming the year before, so it was perfect timing, lol.
I loved that album! That was the first time (at the age of 9) anyone made a deal out of mentioning the guitars and drums the band used. Pearl Drums - never heard of those until then!
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Old 05-22-2018, 03:29 AM
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Default Re: 100,000 Years Shuffle

That Jeff Porcaro! I am now a fan, very tight clean style.
Great work on the compilation! Thanks Pocket!
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