Ludwig badge position

RockApe

RockApe

Junior Member
Hi,
I bought an early Ludwig Rocker kit a while ago which I'm in the process of restoring. Something that I thought curious was that when I mount the 12" and 13" tom on the bass drum, the Ludwig badge on the 13" faces inwards rather than outwards, as though the mount was on the wrong side of the drum. This seems rather odd and wondered whether anyone had come across this before.
 
What possibly happened was the 13 might have been badged for a single mounted tom kit or a for a 13/14 mounted tom kit.

Or,it was shipped as a kit with the 12 by accident,or just to fill and order

Or...the mounting bracket was placed on the wrong side.Ludwig used everything,and rarely scrapped a drum.They shipped then mistakes and all.I've seen drums with a badge on both sides of a drum.

With Ludwig,all are plauseable.I love Ludwig drums,but they got away with some really stupid mistakes for a time.

Steve B
 
tamadrm said:
I've seen drums with a badge on both sides of a drum.
Click to expand...

That in particular was so that a rack tom could be mounted in the 'left' or 'right' position, and still show the badge. This started in the '90s, and typically one badge had the serial #, and one did not.

But badge positions did tend to vary over the years. I've got toms where the badge is placed under the tone control knob, kind of facing back towards the player and not visible to most of the audience.

With the advent of RIMS and now Ludwig's ATLAS mount, badge position is a matter of choice. For example, in the "Clean Looking Ludwig Kit" thread, the photo (see below) shows the badge a little tight to the mount IMO. I'd move the mount one set of holes clockwise so that the badge faces more forward. Of course, it also depends how much the tom is rotated back towards the player, the badge might look more correct where it's at in relation to the mount.

Bermuda
 

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Since we're on the subject of badge position...just today I noticed something. Steve, here's an observation that I was wondering if you could shed some light on. I have 2 sets of vintage Luds, 1966 and 1976. Both are 12,13,16 toms. On both 12's and 13's the badge is opposite the muffler. And on both floor toms, the badge...if the badge is 12:00 then the mufflers are 7:00, not 6:00 like the racks. It seems like it's on purpose. If the mufflers were at 6:00 like the racks, it wouldn't be in the way, so I'm wondering if all floors are like that and why they did it. Ever notice this before?
 
RockApe said:
Hi,
I bought an early Ludwig Rocker kit a while ago which I'm in the process of restoring. Something that I thought curious was that when I mount the 12" and 13" tom on the bass drum, the Ludwig badge on the 13" faces inwards rather than outwards, as though the mount was on the wrong side of the drum. This seems rather odd and wondered whether anyone had come across this before.
Click to expand...

Yeah, like tamadrm said it could be that the 13" was not originally part of a 12-13-16 outfit and the badge was positioned to be facing forward on some other configuration like a stand alone 13" rack tom. Could be a mistake. Where's the wrap seam in relation to the mounting bracket? That might be a clue.

You could always drill a new vent hole on the other side for the badge and just put a grommet on the old hole. Having two vents won't be a big deal.

Would love to see some pics BTW. I got an old Rockers recently too.
 
Thanks for the many replies guys. Very Helpful. I live in New Zealand and recently bought the kit (sans snare) at an on-line auction for the equivalent US$175 so pretty pleased. I figured that I could re-drill the shell and rotate the drum 180 degrees. I'm not bothered particualrly that the badge is at the back, more that the join in the wrap is at the front and looks a bit crappy.

The kit has a silver-grey metallic wrap and I have cleaned and restored two toms so far. I bought a really nice old 6 1/2"Tama Kingbeat snare to with it for $50 which I've taken to bits and cleaned. Lots of work to do still on the stands etc which have some pretty bad pitting to the chrome but all salavageable. I've attached a photo of the pedal that came with the kit and which I've now restored with a new wooden beater, spring and kevlar strap.
 

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larryace said:
Since we're on the subject of badge position...just today I noticed something. Steve, here's an observation that I was wondering if you could shed some light on. I have 2 sets of vintage Luds, 1966 and 1976. Both are 12,13,16 toms. On both 12's and 13's the badge is opposite the muffler. And on both floor toms, the badge...if the badge is 12:00 then the mufflers are 7:00, not 6:00 like the racks. It seems like it's on purpose. If the mufflers were at 6:00 like the racks, it wouldn't be in the way, so I'm wondering if all floors are like that and why they did it. Ever notice this before?
Click to expand...

Like Bermuda said,over the years the position and orientation of the numerous Ludwig badges changed ,even more often than they changed different badge styles.In the 50's and early 60's as an example,the WFL and Keystone badges were kind of in the middle of the floor toms,at 180 degrees from the muffler.

The then changed to just around 3-4 inches from the batter side.

The same with mounted toms and snare drums.Toms was in the middle,then moved to around 2-3 inches from the batter side.

Snare drums were about the same but the badge was mush closer to the batter side 1'1/2 inches at times.

The position of the mufflers also changed orientation at times,Sometimes the were facing the drummer,then they were mounted a panel or two away,more to 90 degrees.

I've also seen toms with two badges,and mufflers top and bottom

The newer Chicago and Monroe badges on some drums are so close to the bearing edge that the top of the badge is covered by the top rim or flesh hoop.

I don't think these were all mistakes,thought some of them are no doubt products of some workers having a liquid lunch.

I just recently saw a 60's vintage Ludwig kit in black galaxy wrar which is just beautiful on Ebay with a bass drum that had 2 keystone badges on it.One at the usual place and one at about the 270 degree mark .

These are mostly due to ideas pitched at sales meetings I guess

It's nothing to be worried about,unless the grommet is molested or the badge is reproduction...yes they are floating around out there.B/O and 60's keystone badges that are fakes.Usually ans exalination of the grommet and how it was mounted will reveal a fake,.

Ok...I'm rambleing now......hope I answered your question Lar

Steve B.
 
OK what I got from your response is that there was no intelligent design behind it. It's a sheer coincidence that my floor tom mufflers are both offset in relation to the badge, while the racks are not offset. Got it. Liquid lunches, lol. A case of free will, within parameters, if you will.
 
That's kind of what seem to have happened,but it wasn't exclusive to Ludwig.

I'm sure some exects at Ludwig were just trying to justify their position with new and creative ideas.( corporate catch phrase for Bullshite)

Slingerland was know for basicly the same thing.Badges and muffler knobs being in different positions.Wrap seams not correctly placed under a lug.

No vent holes or badges on toms till the mid 60's(bass drums and snare drums only got badges)

Two way wraps;one side was red sparkle,the opposite side was blue sparkle.

Possibly, the worst strainer ever made in the super strainer AKA clamshell,the handle for which almost always broke(mine's still not broken)

Snare wires and strainers placed on 16" floor toms for the "stereo" effect.

Rogers drawn brass bread and butter lugs that cracked.......all the time,not just a little.

But dispite all the bad ideas and mistakes,they managed to make pretty good sounding drums.

Steve B
 
thread rebirth, when did the badge move from the middle of the drums to 3-4 "s from the batter side? i'm thinking around '64?
 
I'm talking 60's drums, i always thought it was pre serial in the middle, serial numbers ..64 onwards to the batter side, them B/O badge after '69.
 
The reason for my queries are i'm researching a 1966 or 65 Ludwig kit. The kit is painted on the inside has red felts but the serial numbers put it around 1968, the guy who owns it swears he bought it new in '66 has dated photos of it. the serial numbers are all 60xxx . curious hmmm! any ideas anyone?
 
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