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  #1  
Old 11-13-2012, 06:01 PM
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Default Drumlines can create obstacles for the drum set player.

Haven't seen many talk about this, so I thought I would bring it up. At first the claim sounds a bit outlandish but hang with me. Most of the now famous drum set drummers came from back in the day when Drumlines were more "loose" and less machine like. The arms, wrists and forearms were all more loosely used. (a lot of high school drum lines are this way too due to a less intense emphasis on uniformity). I would say in the early 90s Drumlines started to become much more uniform and the style changed over all because of the level of intensity. In a way it became 'sport drumming'. The concentration on stick heights alone became imperative in training and is a big component in the adjudicating process.

Yes I know about Travis Barker, Chad Sexton and most of the others who are a little more modern, but their style is very uniform and precise and it is heard in their playing. You can almost always tell who was put through the drum corps machine through their playing style. Is that a bad thing and does that make them bad drummers? Absolutely not. I'm talking about the set drummers who are trying to become well rounded professional players. The ones having to learn different styles and are developing their own unique personality to playing drums. If you're obsessing over stick heights all the time you're not going to feel and develop in swing, jazz, bop, Cajun, and other styles. Drumlines change your way of thinking and put you in a box. What do you expect though when uniformity is practically being engrained in you and you become part of a machine? There are a few drummers who can see and feel the difference between set drumming vs drum corps drumming and they are able to adapt accordingly. Those guys are gifted.

I know there are lots of positives to drum line. Physical fitness, work and practice ethics, developing a strong rudiment ability, friendships, experience, etc. I get it and can agree. There is definitely talent involved and that's obvious when you see it in action. It might sound like I am dogging on Corps but I'm just bringing up a topic that I think need a little more light. If someone's true love is drum kit, they should take corps with a grain of salt.

Last edited by Manningluck; 11-13-2012 at 09:16 PM. Reason: Clarity
  #2  
Old 11-13-2012, 06:21 PM
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Default Re: Drumlines will hold back the drumset player

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Originally Posted by Manningluck View Post
If you're obsessing over stick heights all the time you're not going to feel and develop in swing, jazz, bop, Cajun, and other styles. Drumlines change your way of thinking and put you in a box.

If someone's true love is drum kit, they should take corps with a grain of salt.
Nonsense!

Tell all that to Billy Cobham and Steve Gadd.
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Last edited by Muckster; 11-13-2012 at 06:43 PM.
  #3  
Old 11-13-2012, 06:39 PM
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Default Re: Drumlines will hold back the drumset player

My friend is in the Santa Clara Vanguard snare line. He seems to do well playing concert percussion, and drum set.

Also, for the most part, his timing is perfect.
  #4  
Old 11-13-2012, 06:43 PM
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Default Re: Drumlines will hold back the drumset player

That's like saying that learning a country two-step will make your straight rock beats somehow worse, or that practicing on a pad will somehow ruin you for drum set playing. We are colored by everything we do, or don't do. It's what makes you you and me, me. If you have the opportunity to learn something related to percussion, do it. As a whole, you will benefit.
  #5  
Old 11-13-2012, 06:46 PM
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Default Re: Drumlines will hold back the drumset player

could not disagree more

every one of my students who plays in a drum line showed amazing improvement in all aspects of drumming once they did so

it did wonders for their reading, control, consistency, technique, listening and attention to detail

it even showed to have some improvement in their feet and lower extremity movement due to the stepping to the music

I have found that the only aspect of playing that it did not enhance was their creativity .....obviously because they are always playing written parts as precise as possible

so I think you are extremely off base here.....at least in my experience

these kids are not morons and understand that Corps. and kit are two completely different types of drumming.
we do a lot of work focussing on how to let these two styles compliment each other

drumming is drumming my friend......

you are either drumming or you are not

as soon as you start drawing lines in the sand and saying this is black and this is white ......you start creating barriers for yourself
  #6  
Old 11-13-2012, 07:00 PM
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Default Re: Drumlines will hold back the drumset player

True, some people are very good at drum line but can't play even basic things on a drum set.
But plenty of people are good at drum line and play great drum set.

Quote:
If you're obsessing over stick heights all the time you're not going to feel and develop in swing, jazz, bop, Cajun, and other styles
It's not a matter of stick heights, as it is time. If you're working on one thing, that cuts into time working on something.

Working a day job, going to school, eating, sleeping, they are all things we do away from the drum set that cut into learning how to develop as a drum set player.

Just as practicing jazz cuts into time to practice latin, and spending time learning latin cuts into the time that could be spend on learning odd times, and so one and so forth. Drumline, in my humble opinion, is no different, other than perhaps the intensity of it.

We all have to make our own decisions on where we want to focus our efforts, and how much effort we wish to put into each aspect.

Quote:
The ones having to learn different styles and are developing their own unique personality to playing drums
Perhaps this is a different thread, but I think the whole concept of developing a unique personality is over rated. Steve Jordan said in modern drummer doing so is counter productive as one should play what right for the music, not for ones individual personality. A working drummer in a cover band is expected to replicate the personalities of the songs the band is playing, not their own. Studio drummers have to be able to take direction and blend in with whatever the circumstance.

Quote:
What do you expect though when uniformity is practically being engrained in you and you become part of a machine?
Given how much a modern drummer is expected to play like a drum machine, or at least replicate machine parts live, is that so bad? Perhaps, perhaps not.
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Old 11-13-2012, 07:06 PM
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Default Re: Drumlines will hold back the drumset player

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Just as practicing jazz cuts into time
exactly !

this is a great point

the point this guy is trying to make about Corps. could be applied to many things

if someone works on being a jazz player in a half ass manner ......they will NEVER be a good convincing jazz player......period

to not be what they call a "Mickey Mouse" player and get exposed on the bandstand.....you have to live it

but Corps. taking away from kit playing ?.....yeah maybe during drum line season due to time needed to dedicate to it ......but the style itself......

not a chance
  #8  
Old 11-13-2012, 07:28 PM
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Default Re: Drumlines will hold back the drumset player

It's in the same vein as the "should I learn double bass" and "should I learn jazz" or "should I learn how to whatever "debates.

You can. You don't have to. Doing one thing cuts into time spent on another thing. Some people become masters of one style, others become a jack of all trades but a master of none. Neither is a right or wrong career path.
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Old 11-13-2012, 08:39 PM
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Default Re: Drumlines will hold back the drumset player

Just as someone who's been on a very serious drumline (we may be highscool but were run like a corps), I'd like to say that I've only experienced positive growth on drumset as well as on rudimentary percussion. In fact, my friend came into our high school with very little skill regarding percussion, and has matured into not only the best snare player at our school, but also one of the best drumset players I've ever heard. All via being on Drumline. If anything, being on the line massively improves your chops, and stylistic approaches have to be taken into your own hands. You won't worry about stick height or good technique whilst playing set unless you make yourself worry about it.
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Old 11-13-2012, 08:45 PM
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Default Re: Drumlines will hold back the drumset player

Everything you play effects everything else you play.

If you like the sound of corp drummers who also play set, go for it!

if you don't, then avoid corp.

For me, the time needed to participate in corp is to great...and to much time is spent not on the set...or working on things like marching when i would prefer to be drumming.
  #11  
Old 11-13-2012, 08:47 PM
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Default Re: Drumlines will hold back the drumset player

Steve Gadd was apart of the less strict uniformity era of drum corps, things have changed since then. Maybe you didn't read my post. I'm not saying Drumlines are bad drummers. That's absolutely absurd. I'm talking about technique, coordination, unique personality on the drums, etc. Drumlines now days program and retrain the brain. Maybe some of you are not aware of the training and methods? It is deep-seated. Let me also note that I am coming at this based on personal experience and not just a disconnected perspective. I got into drumming by way of marching band. 3 years of HS, 2 years as captain and 2 years in DCI. I'm not a corps hater by any stretch of the imagination. My limitations on the kit are a direct result of drum corps and my strengths are as well.

At an open conversation after a clinic in atlanta, Dave Weckl and Tom Knight were talking about how they thought drum corps drumming can indeed create obstacles for the drum set drummer trying to excel. Coordination, technique approach on how to make the drums sing, speaking in phrases, composition and overall mindset.

If you are just comparing styles drum corps vs country music, that isn't a fair comparison because country music does not have you running around on a football field carrying your drums. So much more goes into being a part of a percussion machine.

In the end, drum corps teaches you to be the same. Is that a bad thing? I think it depends on your ambitions and the style you play. The title should have been Drumlines can create obstacles for the drum set player.

I get that not everyone agrees, no harm in that and also know there will be some people who just want to disagree for the sake of disagreeing. I get that too, it is the Internet and all. :) some guys don't see the style they picked up from corps and can't put it together why they're having difficulties on the kit. They've got the chops to overcome the obstacles but they don't know where the difficulty stems from, therefore don't know how to make the changes. Awareness is key.
  #12  
Old 11-13-2012, 08:59 PM
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Default Re: Drumlines will hold back the drumset player

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manningluck View Post
Haven't seen many talk about this, so I thought I would bring it up. At first the claim sounds a bit outlandish but hang with me. Most of the now famous drum set drummers came from back in the day when Drumlines were more "loose" and less machine like. The arms, wrists and forearms were all more loosely used. (a lot of high school drum lines are this way too due to a less intense emphasis on uniformity). I would say in the early 90s Drumlines started to become much more uniform and the style changed over all because of the level of intensity. In a way it became 'sport drumming'. The concentration on stick heights alone became imperative in training and is a big component in the adjudicating process.

Yes I know about Travis Barker, Chad Sexton and most of the others who are a little more modern, but their style is very uniform and precise and it is heard in their playing. You can almost always tell who was put through the drum corps machine through their playing style. Is that a bad thing and does that make them bad drummers? Absolutely not. I'm talking about the set drummers who are trying to become well rounded professional players. The ones having to learn different styles and are developing their own unique personality to playing drums. If you're obsessing over stick heights all the time you're not going to feel and develop in swing, jazz, bop, Cajun, and other styles. Drumlines change your way of thinking and put you in a box. What do you expect though when uniformity is practically being engrained in you and you become part of a machine? There are a few drummers who can see and feel the difference between set drumming vs drum corps drumming and they are able to adapt accordingly. Those guys are gifted.

I know there are lots of positives to drum line. Physical fitness, work and practice ethics, developing a strong rudiment ability, friendships, experience, etc. I get it and can agree. There is definitely talent involved and that's obvious when you see it in action. It might sound like I am dogging on Corps but I'm just bringing up a topic that I think need a little more light. If someone's true love is drum kit, they should take corps with a grain of salt.
In my case, I sort of agree. But then again, I was left-handed forcing myself into a right-handed situation (and doing pretty good at it), but then there was this whole time of re-transitioning back, and then getting my feel back, and that took more time than the physical one. But I think the old skool drum corps types dealt with things closer to the groovy drumset than they do now. I haven't yet heard a corps guy really knock me out on a kit yet, but I'm sure there are alot of them out there. But with how information is so freely available (if you look for it) I can't see anyone staying 'stuck' where they're at for very long.

Even the guys I work with at Disneyland, their drum corps abilities include the drumline drumming seen in the movie "Drumline" (a couple of those guys were in that movie) and that seems worlds apart from anything I see from the Blue Devils or the Santa Clara Vanguard. If it's pin-point accuracy you want, then a modern drum corps guy is what you're looking for. But when I see Steve Gadd playing his snare stuff, I see The Old Guard from Washington DC - that kind of drum corps drumming. Definitely more of a swing and a lilt to the playing, and groovier.

Also keep in mind that our favorite watched female player here, Emmanuelle Caplette (?) is very corps-oriented and she grooves quite well. But I also know not everyone here likes how she comes across on the kit too. I just think Steve Jordan's The Groove is Here DVD should be standard issue to all players leaving drum corps and entering the world of playing drumset in bands ;)

Along with Jens Hannemanns' Complicated Drumming Techniques to remind us that we should laugh at ourselves every now and then too.
  #13  
Old 11-13-2012, 09:22 PM
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Default Re: Drumlines will hold back the drumset player

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Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
I haven't yet heard a corps guy really knock me out on a kit yet,

Paul Stivitts

great Corps. player......pretty damn good kit player as well
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Old 11-13-2012, 10:15 PM
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Default Re: Drumlines will hold back the drumset player

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Originally Posted by Gvdadrummasum View Post
Paul Stivitts

great Corps. player......pretty damn good kit player as well
You cut out the second half of my sentence, you know.
  #15  
Old 11-13-2012, 10:20 PM
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Default Re: Drumlines will hold back the drumset player

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You cut out the second half of my sentence, you know.
Looks like he's got a habit of missing out on context and general points of a post. Lots of extra assuming going on. It happens. :)
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Old 11-13-2012, 10:23 PM
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Default Re: Drumlines will hold back the drumset player

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Looks like he's got a habit of missing out on context and general points of a post. Lots of extra assuming going on. It happens. :)
Crap. He just gave an example, nothing more. No need for interpretations. Don't be so eager to jump on other posts. If you want to be super correct please change the thread title into "Will Drumlines hold back the drumset player?" but no, you already decided - prematurely I'd say.
  #17  
Old 11-13-2012, 10:27 PM
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Default Re: Drumlines will hold back the drumset player

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Originally Posted by Manningluck View Post
Looks like he's got a habit of missing out on context and general points of a post. Lots of extra assuming going on. It happens. :)
Not a big deal. I respect the man. I'm sure alot of players do both really well, I just haven't run across many. I think it's rare when you find one that can go from being Mr. Rudiments to Clyde Stubblefield so easily. And when I've met people like this, I find out they're the exceptions having come from excessively musical families or are just innate incredible players anyway. But they're out there.
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Old 11-13-2012, 10:32 PM
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Default Re: Drumlines will hold back the drumset player

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You cut out the second half of my sentence, you know.
yeah I know........just wanted to throw an example out there
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Old 11-13-2012, 10:40 PM
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Default Re: Drumlines will hold back the drumset player

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Crap. He just gave an example, nothing more. No need for interpretations. Don't be so eager to jump on other posts. If you want to be super correct please change the thread title into "Will Drumlines hold back the drumset player?" but no, you already decided - prematurely I'd say.
Thanks for bringing irony into the discussion!
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:00 PM
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Default Re: Drumlines will hold back the drumset player

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Not a big deal. I respect the man. I'm sure alot of players do both really well, I just haven't run across many. I think it's rare when you find one that can go from being Mr. Rudiments to Clyde Stubblefield so easily. And when I've met people like this, I find out they're the exceptions having come from excessively musical families or are just innate incredible players anyway. But they're out there.
I agree. The challenges that a drummer faces going from corps to set can definitely be overcome, I just don't think there is that big of a conversation about how to make the transition effectively. There are only a couple books and dvds (that are not that popular) to cater to this instance. One could say there is a market for it.

It took me a long while to become more independent with my feet and only until I realized what I was battling (engrained technique and muscle memory) was I able to search and find the right kind of exercises to help me get past it. Probably would have never put it together had not an instructor ask me about my background. He said my grip was usually a little too tight, my movement too strict, my posture too stiff and that it was almost like I was forcing the pocket rather than let it flow.
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:09 PM
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Default Re: Drumlines will hold back the drumset player

Irony? Oh boy, readjust your perspective. No irony from my end. I'm speechless...
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:18 PM
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Default Re: Drumlines will hold back the drumset player

I think techniques need to be adapted from drum corps when moving to set. I learned a drum corps grip that I had to loosen to move over to set, for instance.

I don't agree with your assessment of increased uniformity being a more recent thing in corps. I think it's the opposite, and most involved in corps today lament the loss of that element. The old guard were far more "drum" oriented than the more entertainment-themed corps of today, and the techniques were more regimented. The Bobby Thompson/Les Parks style grips and techniques that were used and taught by people like Marty Hurley and Ken Mazur back in the 70s and early 80s were the pinnacle of precision and uniformity.

All this being said, the benefits gained from playing in drum corps, like coordination, hand development and precision, far outweigh any baggage that comes along with it, IMO.
  #23  
Old 11-13-2012, 11:27 PM
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Default Re: Drumlines will hold back the drumset player

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Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
Even the guys I work with at Disneyland, their drum corps abilities include the drumline drumming seen in the movie "Drumline" (a couple of those guys were in that movie) and that seems worlds apart from anything I see from the Blue Devils or the Santa Clara Vanguard. If it's pin-point accuracy you want, then a modern drum corps guy is what you're looking for. But when I see Steve Gadd playing his snare stuff, I see The Old Guard from Washington DC - that kind of drum corps drumming. Definitely more of a swing and a lilt to the playing, and groovier.

Also keep in mind that our favorite watched female player here, Emmanuelle Caplette (?) is very corps-oriented and she grooves quite well. But I also know not everyone here likes how she comes across on the kit too. I just think Steve Jordan's The Groove is Here DVD should be standard issue to all players leaving drum corps and entering the world of playing drumset in bands ;)
Interesting, and cool to hear from someone who actually deals with players on both ends of the spectrum. But is it really fair to Steve Jordan or Steve Gadd to imply that their playing doesn't have "pin-point" accuracy? At some point we need to get away from categorizing these things as correct, right, precise, or accurate. Grid-like, quantized playing is not desirable in much of modern music (pretty much anything that swings, really), but it is very much in vogue within modern drum line playing, and very, very desirable in most of today's pop and R&B music. So is it any surprise that someone steeped in drum line will sound out of place in a Blues Brothers tribute or big band? No, but that doesn't make them "held back". "Inappropriate" is a much better word, and it's nothing that practice and/or experience won't fix.

Mechanical feel aside, the music itself and the way it is learned should also be considered. Drum line players certainly learn to read, but to my knowledge they are rarely encouraged to interpret or improvise, and these can be important skills in a groovy rock band. Playing ideas that fit the music well also comes from a familiarity with a particular genre or style of music. For a drummer, that would include everything from dynamics and phrasing to vocabulary and voicing, as well as song forms, cadences, and other musical structures. Furthermore, many rock bands function without written music completely, working off of a predetermined framework or group of influences. So, yes, a drum line player will have to sort through some tendencies if he wishes to sound authentic on a drum set (and vice versa), but only within certain genres and styles.

If a drum line player doesn't address the needs of the music, then yes, he'll continue to sound out of place; however, that is not the shortcoming of the drum line.
  #24  
Old 11-13-2012, 11:36 PM
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Default Re: Drumlines will hold back the drumset player

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Irony? Oh boy, readjust your perspective. No irony from my end. I'm speechless...
Telling someone not to jump on someone else's posts while doing exactly that.

The post was about context, or lack there of. It was joking about it. No harm, no foul. Seriously, you need to not take internet interactions so damn seriously.

It'd be cool if we could stay on target. My intent is actually to help others, not myself. Lord knows I already need all the help I can get.
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Old 11-14-2012, 01:34 AM
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Default Re: Drumlines will hold back the drumset player

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The challenges that a drummer faces going from corps to set can definitely be overcome, I just don't think there is that big of a conversation about how to make the transition effectively. There are only a couple books and dvds (that are not that popular) to cater to this instance. One could say there is a market for it.
What do you think of Bo's idea?

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I just think Steve Jordan's The Groove is Here DVD should be standard issue to all players leaving drum corps and entering the world of playing drumset in bands ;)
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:20 AM
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Default Re: Drumlines will hold back the drumset player

The biggest difference is going to be muscle memory related.. As long as a coprs drummer can spend enough time on developing the muscle memory for kit playing, IE: looser grip, lower tuned drum skins and incorporating feet into the equation.. There's no reason why a drum corpser could'nt be great at drumset.. I general most of the Drum Corps people I know that play kit sound stiffer than desired.. However, most of the drumkit players that don't know rudiments and proper technique sound like sloppy bags of crap.. Which is better?

Someone who can do both..
  #27  
Old 11-14-2012, 02:30 AM
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Default Re: Drumlines will hold back the drumset player

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What do you think of Bo's idea?
I've not dealt with any of Steve Jordan's material but I think it's probably a great idea. The things that helped me most were Gary Chester's The New Breed, Advanced Techniques For The Modern Drummer by Jim Chapin and 4-Way Coordination by Marvin Dahlgren and Elliot Fin. Oldies but classics and goodies. I learned enough to come out of my shell but still a long way to go. As far as movement is concerned I think Benny Greb is one of my favorites presently. He may not have as amazing chops as some other cats but he hears and takes advantage of the broad sonic spectrum that comes with the drum kit. Even the most subtle.

I will check out The Groove is Here. Probably safe to say that learning funk and jazz are two styles of playing that will help get the person out of a Drum Corps strictness and intensity it has your hands, playing, and perception.

It's hard to not be immersed and consumed by corps because the level of intensity and the level of competitiveness. It's just flat out cool. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LcAoL9IgI0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dms9lOmEMYA

Incredible stuff and talent. But get behind the kit and it can be like trying to ride a bike for the first time. Vice Versa too.
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:37 AM
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Default Re: Drumlines will hold back the drumset player

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most of the drumkit players that don't know rudiments and proper technique sound like sloppy bags of crap
LOL
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:39 AM
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Default Re: Drumlines will hold back the drumset player

Quote....My limitations on the kit are a direct result of drum corps and my strengths are as well.

I would say that if you spend as much time on drum set as you have on drum line I think you find that that is also retrains the brain. I think equal time would change that theory
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  #30  
Old 11-14-2012, 03:37 AM
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Default Re: Drumlines will hold back the drumset player

Drumlines or school bands or just drum instruction all have a few things in common, and it will only add to your drumming. One you read drum music, two you are forced to have discipline, three like it or not you will learn sometype of chops, four these experiences teach you to have better control of your sticks, and there are probably a few more advantages to drumlines/school bands, I just can't think of them at this moment.

The trick is how you apply this learning to the drum set. That goes for anything you learn from drum teachers or drum books, stick control book, any snare book,
EVERY THING GETS APPLIED TO THE DRUM SET IN SOME WAY. The way you end up applying what you learn, is how you are going to sound on the kit and what will endup being your own drum technique.
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:43 AM
Retrovertigo Retrovertigo is offline
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Default Re: Drumlines will hold back the drumset player

Cindy Blackman comes from a corps. background and her feel is incredible. musical styles are not mutually exclusive.
  #32  
Old 11-14-2012, 03:48 AM
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Default Re: Drumlines will hold back the drumset player

i must politely disagree with the original post. Drumline is not only about the technique learned, which you are correct, can be tought on the mechanical side, but the hands and stickings that are learned in drumline are valuable, as is the experience of playing with other percussionists in a military like regimine. i do agree that it seems to have taken the feel out of some of the more recently discovered drummers who claim drumline to be their main influence, but i recently read an interview with cora coleman duhnam of Prince and the New power generation, and while she was a drumline veteran herself, her feel is really quite nice; she has a great pocket and good chops. I think my biggist mif about drumlines, if i had to find one, is that much like the Gospel chops fad going around, they can put too much of an emphasis on speed and flash, but again, that would vary from drummer to drummer, some knowing less is more, some doing more for less.
  #33  
Old 11-14-2012, 03:52 AM
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Default Re: Drumlines will hold back the drumset player

All that marching around with a drumset must be a killer, no?
  #34  
Old 11-14-2012, 05:57 AM
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Default Re: Drumlines will hold back the drumset player

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but the hands and stickings that are learned in drumline are valuable, as is the experience of playing with other percussionists in a military like regimine.

Totally agree with that part. I owe my rudimentary ability to drum corps and instructors. It was fun. Lots of time and dedication, sleeping in gyms and playing in school gyms, parking lots, different stadiums, many friendships and lots of instruction. I probably was in the best shape of my life too. But I still think it programs a drummer to be overly syncopated, brings machine playing to the kit, holds back free flowing improve, and can be a challenge for the hand and foot coordination. Some cats out there can adapt easily, others not so much.

Looking back I wish I would have taken more time to balance it out. I never thought of it like that in the thick of things, which is why I'm writing this thread. In a lot of ways balancing it out probably would have only helped my snare playing in corps. Your goal is to keep your spot. Lots of guys competing for the same thing too.

Bo Eder hit it on the head with mentioning the difference in style of drumline. DCI in the 90s started to turn. In the later years the style had more groove to it, it was loose, it had swing, more personality. It's not like that anymore. My experience with the cavies was much more robotic all around.
  #35  
Old 11-14-2012, 06:10 AM
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Default Re: Drumlines will hold back the drumset player

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All that marching around with a drumset must be a killer, no?
Oh yeah. It sucks. And my back ain't getting any younger!

To further clarify what I said: That laser-like pin-point accuracy I see demonstrated with the modern drum corps players seems alot different than old skool drum corps players, like Steve Gadd. Even when I saw some rudiment demonstrations done by members of the Old Guard, the way they play their Lesson 25's seems much different then how they'd be played by a group like the Garfield Cadets - and there'd even be a difference in the way the Garfield Cadets from the 1980s played them compared to the Garfield Cadets of 2013. Apparently this is an issue of evolution and interpretation.

I was in no way implying that Steve Gadd or Steve Jordan are sloppy players. Perhaps an even better, broader statement would be that, when comparing modern drum corps to drum set players, I see a different clock ticking. And I'm not saying one is better than the other, they're just different. I enjoy both and am always amazed when I see great performances come from both types of players.

As a side note, I'm a little biased in that I enjoy drum corps from the 70s through the 80s because the snare drums just sounded more like snare drums back then. I can't get my head around what the kids like about these modern kevlar-headed snares - to me they sound atrocious. But, being an old bass drummer, the rudimental bass drums lines of today I wish we could've approached when I marched! But it's an evolution, I guess.

But perhaps the goal should be the intent. If you know you want to eventually make a living as a drumset player, then why not make that the focus? I know, I'm opening another can of worms, especially since we're all about "doing everything you can do" as a percussionist. But there's nothing wrong with saying "this is what I want to do - so this is what I will do". Hell, it worked for Buddy Rich, didn't it?

And this would explain the amount of incredible drum corps players on the planet. These people have decided that that's what they wanted to do, so they did that. Nothing wrong with that at all. Not all of them will successfully make the transition to in-demand drumset player, and that's ok. Not all drumset players will be able to walk into a drumline and be successful there, either. And isn't that ok?
  #36  
Old 11-14-2012, 06:21 AM
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Default Re: Drumlines will hold back the drumset player

marching band is geeky. even the drummers are uber geeks. they just put on tough faces to hide their geekness.
  #37  
Old 11-14-2012, 06:22 AM
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Default Re: Drumlines will hold back the drumset player

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Originally Posted by saturnrules View Post
marching band is geeky. even the drummers are uber geeks. they just put on tough faces to hide their geekness.
This too ;)

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  #38  
Old 11-14-2012, 07:08 AM
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Default Re: Drumlines will hold back the drumset player

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As a side note, I'm a little biased in that I enjoy drum corps from the 70s through the 80s because the snare drums just sounded more like snare drums back then
I don't know anything about military music so when Larry posted a thread about his dislike of the Kevlar sound I checked it out with fresh ears.

I quite liked it - a bit surreal, like a caricature of a snare drum sound, and I don't mean that as a bad thing. As Brent said, the increasingly mechanical nature of military drumming is in step with modern pop / rock.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:15 AM
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Default Re: Drumlines will hold back the drumset player

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I don't know anything about military music so when Larry posted a thread about his dislike of the Kevlar sound I checked it out with fresh ears.

I quite liked it - a bit surreal, like a caricature of a snare drum sound, and I don't mean that as a bad thing. As Brent said, the increasingly mechanical nature of military drumming is in step with modern pop / rock.
I don't like the sound and I can't stand the feel. The rebound is absurd. It's funny, because people wonder what the hell the old-timers were talking about when they muscled out every note and talked about "playing through the head." But those were different heads. On a kevlar head, you would destroy your hands in short order playing like that. It's all about bounce now. That and stick tricks. The real rudimental art form is on hiatus.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:16 AM
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Default Re: Drumlines will hold back the drumset player

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anon La Ply View Post
I don't know anything about military music so when Larry posted a thread about his dislike of the Kevlar sound I checked it out with fresh ears.

I quite liked it - a bit surreal, like a caricature of a snare drum sound, and I don't mean that as a bad thing. As Brent said, the increasingly mechanical nature of military drumming is in step with modern pop / rock.
Yeah, it's an acquired taste. Unfortunately I never acquired it. Playing on one feels very strange. It might as well be a hardwood! But corps guys can make them sound amazing. Just not my cup of tea ;)
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