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  #121  
Old 11-11-2012, 01:54 AM
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Default Re: I have a problem with different opinions

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Originally Posted by Manningluck View Post
Just google "arguing on the Internet is like running in the special Olympics"
Now, you see - that's brilliant: showing someone a joke picture is apparently unacceptable but explaining to them how they can see it elsewhere is totally fine. Incidentally, what's the problem with that anyway? I mean, it may be construed as poor taste or maybe just not particularly funny but I don't think it was meant as a slight on any specific member of this forum, was it . . . ? Was it?

Surely having a sense of humour includes the sensibility for what other people find funny?

Either way, I have had no personal attention from our erstwhile DW colleague in the short time I've been knocking about these halls but I must say I'd be enormously flattered to receive the kind of attention he seems to have lavished upon everyone else in these pages. Seriously, that's some level of devotion: I haven't had that much contact with my own brother in the last 12 months as he has had with you guys. He must really really love this place to want to keep coming back for more.
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  #122  
Old 11-11-2012, 02:16 AM
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Default Re: I have a problem with different opinions

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He must really really love this place to want to keep coming back for more.
LOL so true!
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  #123  
Old 11-11-2012, 02:36 AM
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Default Re: I have a problem with different opinions

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He must really really love this place to want to keep coming back for more.
He must. That's the way I see it. It is intriguing. I'm just not sure why I keep coming back. I found this place last year when I was at one of the lowest points in my life. I've been in a deep depression since my divorce and I've lost interest in just about everything except for playing drums. So, I guess contributing to this forum for me is purely self-indulgent and a tool to help keep my spirit from sinking even lower than it is.

As for Larry, I'd say he is more of an existentialist, as am I, which is why I agree with him philosophically most of the time.
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  #124  
Old 11-11-2012, 02:49 AM
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Default Re: I have a problem with different opinions

What a strange thread. I have no idea what's going on here. It's sort of David Lynchian; something fairly bad has happened but I can't figure out what it was.
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  #125  
Old 11-11-2012, 02:50 AM
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Default Re: I have a problem with different opinions

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deliberate provocation is not. It gets in the way of even the most controversial discussion.
It is one thing to disagree, It is another to intentionally push someones buttons because you know that you will trigger an adverse reaction from them.
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  #126  
Old 11-11-2012, 03:08 AM
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Default Re: I have a problem with different opinions

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So what are ya calling me Manningluck? Huh? You want a piece of this sucka?

Kidding! Really... here I'll prove it. :)
Let me check. Eagles or Steelers?
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  #127  
Old 11-11-2012, 03:09 AM
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Default Re: I have a problem with different opinions

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What a strange thread. I have no idea what's going on here. It's sort of David Lynchian; something fairly bad has happened but I can't figure out what it was.
More like David Copperfield
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  #128  
Old 11-11-2012, 03:32 AM
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What a strange thread. I have no idea what's going on here. It's sort of David Lynchian; something fairly bad has happened but I can't figure out what it was.
You will find the key in the blue box ...
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  #129  
Old 11-11-2012, 03:51 AM
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Default Re: I have a problem with different opinions

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It is one thing to disagree, It is another to intentionally push someones buttons because you know that you will trigger an adverse reaction from them.
He does plenty of pushing of his own Bob.

I reckon it's a bit rich to cry foul when someone takes aim and pushes back. I have no problem with him whatsoever and if it were up to me I'd let him stay. But let's be honest, he ain't entirely blameless here either. So much is of his own making. At least 6 appearances and susequent dismissals tell me it's time to turn the eyes inwards and ask why.
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  #130  
Old 11-11-2012, 04:19 AM
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Default Re: I have a problem with different opinions

Is this about the guy who said it's bad to drink milk and use seat belts?
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  #131  
Old 11-11-2012, 04:26 AM
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Default Re: I have a problem with different opinions

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But let's be honest, he ain't entirely blameless here either. So much is of his own making. At least 6 appearances
You are correct, Glen did contribute to his problems.
People were wrong on all sides.
Glen needs to lighten up and realize that fact too,
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  #132  
Old 11-11-2012, 04:39 AM
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Default Re: I have a problem with different opinions

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Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
Controversy is fine, deliberate provocation is not. It gets in the way of even the most controversial discussion.

There's a wide latitude of topic, language and attitude that's overlooked or otherwise tolerated, but if someone crosses the line, there needs to be a remedy.

Bermuda
I understand the status quo, I realize this will never likely happen. But humor me anyway. Let's play this out just for laughs. Just say there was a subforum where all words are allowed. Any words. Member A picks on member B, member B defends himself and Member A retaliates, the thread gets moved to the boxing ring, and there they are safe to spew their venom out. What is so bad about that? What's the worst that will likely happen? Someone please answer that for me. Certain people crave/like/ and sometimes need to argue to resolve issues. Unresolved issues keep cropping up. Resolved issues allow you to move on. All I'm saying is sometimes you need to argue to get resolution, so banning arguing is inhibiting growth in my mind. Again, we're just talking words. It's like a TV channel that shows porn for instance. If you don't like it, don't whine about it, just don't tune in! Some people need things that others don't. The ones who don't like fighting have a choice. The ones who do like fighting....have no choices, which doesn't help.

Sometimes, in order to get past a personal issue, it takes a knock down drag out argument to get there, and opposing POV's. Things need to be worked through. It takes what it takes. I just don't see the harm, as long as it's in a separate area that can be visited or not by members. Easily offended members may not want to participate, but many of us have a thicker skin and can handle some heat. I actually get a lot from the banned threads, it exposes stuff that is normally swept under the carpet. Humans will be humans and will say bad stuff to other humans. Getting feedback from an international community, is such a luxury, why would we want to crush that possibility? Not everything is nicey nicey. A combination of thicker skin and tolerance of others is what's needed, and this can only happen in non banned threads that are allowed to run their course. Which they eventually will, if given the chance. Freedom of speech is clearly lip service when you can't express anger or frustration directly to the source, especially on an internet forum.

I just see banning threads as saying...yea, we're not mature enough to successfully handle these words. So what, big deal, you have the folks that complain to the mods about others. Let them, so what? People have a need to complain I guess. Small price to pay for the potential reward, better more understanding relationships. And for the people who complain, to me that's just whining. Handle your personal battles with the person you have an issue with, not run to Daddy to defend you.

Jon, I realize you don't make the rules, and I have no problem with any of your actions, whatsoever, I know you have a job to do, and you do it well. I just picture certain things differently and am looking for someone to convince me that allowing fighting in a special area won't work. Hey maybe it won't, but how would anyone know unless they actually tried it?

Imagine if every time you needed to argue with your wife, someone comes in and shuts it down. Nothing is resolved, feelings get stuffed, or take on other more negative forms, and no one is happy. With fighting, people get it out of their system, and both the spectators and participants get a giant life/relationship lesson. Most mature people change their views, or agree to disagree, and eventually make up. That's where the growth happens. Growing pains hurt, and avoiding them is silly. Couples need to learn how to fight to stay married for decades. Same principle applies here.

So what is the big danger of letting people fight in a designated area? If it morphs into actions, that's what police are for, then let the real world rules take over. In the meantime, a virtual fight can really go a long way towards personal growth, JMO. It's safe.

Last edited by larryace; 11-11-2012 at 04:53 AM.
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  #133  
Old 11-11-2012, 04:48 AM
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Default Re: I have a problem with different opinions

Larry this site isn't about meaningless fighting.
That is why it is discouraged at all cost regardless what room it is in.
It is counter productive to learning about percussion technique and gear.

Some Yamaha badges are not any better than the Mapex Saturn :)
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  #134  
Old 11-11-2012, 05:00 AM
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Default Re: I have a problem with different opinions

Of course not, I'm just imagining a place for resolution when the odd fight happens. They don't happen that often. I just really hate censorship, because it can't solve anything long term. My Dad had a great saying, temporary inconvenience, permanent improvement.
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  #135  
Old 11-11-2012, 05:03 AM
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Default Re: I have a problem with different opinions

This is all too bad. The pattern is the same though. The bad element rears its ugly head and everyone goes awry. Things are never this out of control without him.
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  #136  
Old 11-11-2012, 05:08 AM
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Default Re: I have a problem with different opinions

What's out of control? All the control is intact. You can do everything you did prior. People felt a whole lot of different things over this issue, that's all. They're just words on a screen. What is so criminal about that?
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  #137  
Old 11-11-2012, 05:29 AM
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Default Re: I have a problem with different opinions

Some people can't deal with the fact that some folks aren't always going to say what you want them to say.
It happens to all of us sometimes and most of us get a little pissed at first, we then just accept it, and ignore it.

I don't care if you don't like the badges on my Saturn kit.
I like the kit and what a few others think doesn't matter to me.
I have a strong constitution and I can let things roll off of me.

Others aren't like me. They need approval from everyone or they get deeply hurt.
They then fight back.
That leads to a problem.
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  #138  
Old 11-11-2012, 05:31 AM
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Default Re: I have a problem with different opinions

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
I understand the status quo, I realize this will never likely happen. But humor me anyway. Let's play this out just for laughs. Just say there was a subforum where all words are allowed. Any words. Member A picks on member B, member B defends himself and Member A retaliates, the thread gets moved to the boxing ring, and there they are safe to spew their venom out. What is so bad about that? What's the worst that will likely happen? Someone please answer that for me.
Well, Larry, I moderate another forum, that is sports related, not music

I'll tell you what happens:
Person A finds person B's facebook or myspace, downloads their pictures, or pictures of their children, and photoshops them in not nice ways, and then re-posts them. Yeah, and it gets really bad when someone gets pissed off enough to get a hold of another person's daughter's picture.

I've also seen people get so angry, they give out their address, so they can meet up and settle with fists (assuming they live a drivable distance away from each other).

Person A gets into an online fight with person B, and it turns out person A is computer hacker (or hires one) and then it's gets really dramatic.

And there is potential liability. If Person A gets into a fight with person B on said forum. Person A tracks down person B, does something bad. Person B then sues the forum for liability for not stopping the fight when they had the chance.
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  #139  
Old 11-11-2012, 05:54 AM
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Default Re: I have a problem with different opinions

Larry, I'm with you 100% on the concept of letting people fight it out. Not just on internet forums, but in real-life situations, too. I see conflict resolution through the eyes of a hockey fan: Drop the gloves, trade punches on the ice, then go have a beer together after the game. Sh** gets solved that way that doesn't get solved any other, IMO.

But this is Bernhard's place of business. We don't have any rights here. We're guests in his house, and he makes the rules. If he doesn't like how I'm acting, he gets to drop the ban hammer on me and I get to shut the f**k up and leave. And like it.

Special rooms don't work. People won't confine their fights to the special room. They've already demonstrated they can't follow the forum rules, why would we expect them to start now? The fight will break out in a Your Gear thread over someone "disrespecting" a drum badge or finish, and that's where it will continue.

I've participated in forums where the members were allowed to have it out with little or no moderator intervention and those forums don't even exist anymore. In fact, neither do the businesses that hosted them. Many of the conflicts spilled out into real-life. Things absolutely got out of control. I have first-hand experience with this. I can tell you a story about how my name made its way into an FBI investigation because of a dispute that started on a forum -- a MUSIC forum just like this one.

So while I get where you're coming from, I think the internet forum is a special beast that demands a strong disciplinary hand from the moderator. In real-life, the threat of the other guy punching you in the face helps mitigate behavior. Without a moderator, there's nothing to keep people in check. Besides, nobody is really censoring anybody here. People are free to take their arguments somewhere else. Bernhard doesn't care if we fight, he just doesn't want the fight breaking out in his living room. It's hard to argue with that.
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  #140  
Old 11-11-2012, 05:56 AM
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Default Re: I have a problem with different opinions

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Well, Larry, I moderate another forum, that is sports related, not music
Me, too. Perhaps that has something to do with why we share the same perspective on this.
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  #141  
Old 11-11-2012, 06:05 AM
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Default Re: I have a problem with different opinions

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
So what is the big danger of letting people fight in a designated area?.
There isn't one, but what your talking about opens the doors for a lot of risk to this forum. Visitors, investors, contributors, etc need to see a calm, collective brain trust of drummers and drumming fans around the world when they visit the site so they keep visiting, investing, and contributing to the site. Its a major risk for Bernards and the mods if they let anything and everything happen as it comes on this forum.

If anyone needs to vent, there are more than enough avenues to channel those feelings. Reddit is an awesome example for that. Drummerworld just isn't that place.

edit: just read 8Mile's post.. Well said. +1
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Old 11-11-2012, 06:38 AM
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  #142  
Old 11-11-2012, 06:46 AM
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Default Re: I have a problem with different opinions

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I moderate another forum, that is sports related, not music
I do as well

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  #143  
Old 11-11-2012, 07:43 AM
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Default Re: I have a problem with different opinions

What's so good about the mapex saturn?
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  #144  
Old 11-11-2012, 08:06 AM
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Default Re: I have a problem with different opinions

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What's so good about the mapex saturn?
Created to perform in any music genre, the Mapex Saturn is ideal for all professional music applications, both live and in the studio. Saturn is available in a wide variety of shell packs with a multitude of components. With its unique thin maple and walnut shell, Saturn produces deep, rich tone recognized by thousands of players as the Mapex Sound!
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  #145  
Old 11-11-2012, 08:35 AM
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Created to perform in any music genre, the Mapex Saturn is ideal for all professional music applications, both live and in the studio. Saturn is available in a wide variety of shell packs with a multitude of components. With its unique thin maple and walnut shell, Saturn produces deep, rich tone recognized by thousands of players as the Mapex Sound!
Lol. Buy one in the next 5 seconds and we'll throw in 500 sham wows for free!!!! Just don't use them around prostitutes.
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  #146  
Old 11-11-2012, 09:12 AM
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Default Re: I have a problem with different opinions

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He must really really love this place to want to keep coming back for more.
In my opinion it's got nothing to do with love at all, in his case it's a sickness.

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  #147  
Old 11-11-2012, 02:58 PM
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Default Re: I have a problem with different opinions

The Social Networking area of the internet can be a quagmire for folks that have mental issues.
It can make a sick person sicker than they are.
When someone is having problems they often stop interacting with people on a personal level and they only communicate on the web.
The web can be an information overload when one is having issues.

Professional help is the true answer for someone who has mental issues.
I speak from personal experience.
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  #148  
Old 11-11-2012, 03:20 PM
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What's out of control? All the control is intact. You can do everything you did prior. People felt a whole lot of different things over this issue, that's all. They're just words on a screen. What is so criminal about that?
I agree but look at the discussion and back and forth BS that has to take place on our nice drum forum. Not from me as I choose to stay out of any of it and its not aimed at me but he is really an instigator and I think the badgering goes beyond just posting here. PM's and phone calls probably so it becomes personal and doesnt go away. Not just words on a screen.

I am all for the human element but he just disturbs the equilibrium here where we could be focusing on more constructive talk. Like that log kit. No one even got my hi hat bark comment. That is a way under developed exercise in stupidity. If you are reading this, please go here (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=97384) and comment for the stupid joy of it.
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  #149  
Old 11-11-2012, 03:53 PM
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Default Re: I have a problem with different opinions

You guys are right. I'm kind of naive. I suffer from utopianism I think, where I think everyone can all get along. They can't obviously.

And I got your hi hat bark comment when I saw it, I just didn't reply. It was clever and witty, and curses, you beat me to it.
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  #150  
Old 11-11-2012, 05:17 PM
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Default Re: I have a problem with different opinions

You me, outside!

I've always wanted to do that. Actually. It has happened. And it's fun.
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  #151  
Old 11-11-2012, 06:24 PM
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You me, outside!
...errr, Okay... go out, do some warm up, I'll be with you in a minute... you're alone right? .. a piece of cake :)
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  #152  
Old 11-11-2012, 06:36 PM
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...errr, Okay... go out, do some warm up, I'll be with you in a minute... you're alone right? .. a piece of cake :)
Well you've seen the size of me. Fun!
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  #153  
Old 11-11-2012, 06:40 PM
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Well you've seen the size of me. Fun!
Yes I have... which pub should we go to?
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  #154  
Old 11-11-2012, 07:19 PM
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Yes I have... which pub should we go to?
World's End in Camden? Nice spot. Little bit expensive but a good atmosphere and a nice old-fashioned interior.
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  #155  
Old 11-11-2012, 07:50 PM
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World's End in Camden? Nice spot. Little bit expensive but a good atmosphere and a nice old-fashioned interior.
Sounds good to me Dunc :)
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  #156  
Old 11-12-2012, 12:15 AM
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and we'll throw in 500 sham wows for free!!!!
And you'll need every one of 'em.......to clean those gargantuan badges!!
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  #157  
Old 11-12-2012, 12:30 AM
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Some Yamaha badges are not any better than the Mapex Saturn :)
Good example Bob.


...............
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  #158  
Old 11-12-2012, 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted by bobdadruma View Post
Larry this site isn't about meaningless fighting.
That is why it is discouraged at all cost regardless what room it is in.
It is counter productive to learning about percussion technique and gear.

Some Yamaha badges are not any better than the Mapex Saturn :)
Yea, I'm not a fan of those either. It would be a little more honest comparing a high resolution shot of the Mapex Saturn badges in comparison to the Yamaha Oak. It also has a lot to do with the finish that badges are attached to in terms of visual contrast.

Dennis
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  #159  
Old 11-12-2012, 02:40 AM
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Default Re: I have a problem with different opinions

Isn't that a bass drum mount cover (Like a virgin) made by a user here and not an actual Yamaha badge?

Confirmed not a Yamaha badge.
http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...3&postcount=16
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Last edited by drumdevil9; 11-12-2012 at 02:52 AM. Reason: found post
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Old 11-12-2012, 03:46 AM
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bobdadruma bobdadruma is offline
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Default Re: I have a problem with different opinions

Ooops! sorry about that. The pont is that Mapex isn't the only company to use large badges.
Pearl has used large badges over the years along with many other companies.
If I was in a position to make these corporate decisions, all badges on drums would be small.
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