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  #1  
Old 01-18-2012, 06:12 PM
sticks4drums
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Default Shot down by Mapex :(

Most of you know me as a pretty big Mapex Saturn promoter. I have spent in the ball park of 14 thousand dollars on their drums, and hardware. The other day I put in a request to a very strong Mapex dealer, to have an 8 x 8 tom in the yellow ocher sparkle made for me. This is not a stock size that carries a Mapex sku number. They do however have the mould to make one. I have an 8 x 8 for my burl kit that the same store got for me from Mapex, that they made a couple of for artists. Well Mapex said no, even after the Mapex USA guy explained to them, my history with the companies product. I found this a little hard to accept. Helped me realize that we have to be careful about being too brand loyal. We are just dollar signs to them. :(
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  #2  
Old 01-18-2012, 06:16 PM
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Default Re: Shot down by Mapex :(

Man, Pearl would never do that to a customer......come over to the dark side!
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  #3  
Old 01-18-2012, 06:21 PM
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Default Re: Shot down by Mapex :(

I think brand loyalty meant something before everything was made in China and Taiwan. At least Sabians are still made in Canada, right? I'm going to build my own pro kit with American made drum shells, and it will be made in the USA (maybe not the lugs).
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  #4  
Old 01-18-2012, 06:25 PM
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Default Re: Shot down by Mapex :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Midnite Zephyr View Post
I think brand loyalty meant something before everything was made in China and Taiwan.
Well, Mapex is a Taiwanese company, so it makes sense for their stuff to be made there ;-)
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  #5  
Old 01-18-2012, 06:25 PM
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Default Re: Shot down by Mapex :(

Can't really expect them to make exceptions... If they do it for you, they have to do it for everyone.

Plus... I doubt some bigwig US rep has the ability to get some random chinese factory worker to do something out of the usual... There's a lot of layers of separation in there... Maybe if it was a US company ;)
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  #6  
Old 01-18-2012, 06:27 PM
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Default Re: Shot down by Mapex :(

I'm supporting European companies. I play Meinl cymbals. Would also like to play drums from here, but I don't like the bulkyness of Sonor. I like the fact when a product isn't mass produced.
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  #7  
Old 01-18-2012, 06:28 PM
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Default Re: Shot down by Mapex :(

geez.. for 14,000 you could have gotten a real set of drums :)

That kinda sucks though.
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  #8  
Old 01-18-2012, 06:29 PM
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Default Re: Shot down by Mapex :(

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Originally Posted by Naigewron View Post
Well, Mapex is a Taiwanese company, so it makes sense for their stuff to be made there ;-)
I was not going to say anything, and let everyone have their rant. I did not intend this to be about countries or nationalities. Just about how we are treated as customers. They will make no accommodations for anyone, which is what I am seeing with Mapex, or they make some for special cases. Not really sure which is right. A big reason why their pricing is so good,is because they have a set line up with set sku's that they can pump out, in large quantities. If they had all sorts of special orders, I am sure the price would jump up like a DW.
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  #9  
Old 01-18-2012, 06:30 PM
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Default Re: Shot down by Mapex :(

Maybe they'll do it for professionals/endorsers/sponsors, but not for the average joe (no disrespect intended).

But, money talks, and if they tell you it'll cost them $1000 in manufacturing and material costs (since they presumably already have the mould) to produce an 8x8 drum, then I guess it comes down to how much you want it.
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  #10  
Old 01-18-2012, 06:31 PM
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Default Re: Shot down by Mapex :(

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Originally Posted by bigbang View Post
geez.. for 14,000 you could have gotten a real set of drums :)

That kinda sucks though.
That figure is spread over 3 kits mind you. The Monster is the bulk of it.
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  #11  
Old 01-18-2012, 06:35 PM
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Default Re: Shot down by Mapex :(

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Originally Posted by Xero Talent View Post
Maybe they'll do it for professionals/endorsers/sponsors, but not for the average joe (no disrespect intended).
That is true. They will. I think I am somewhere in-between the two though. Many of the regulars on here have admitted that I kind of really opened people's eye's to the Mapex brand over the last year. I have my own web site that I talk a lot about my kits. My Monster kit has had lots of attention on many websites, and on youtube. I have spent a crap load on their product, and I could even venture to say that I probably give their product more exposure, than a lot of their smaller endorsed players, that nobody every hears about, do. The internet reaches a lot of folks. This site alone reaches many drummers around the world.
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  #12  
Old 01-18-2012, 06:38 PM
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Default Re: Shot down by Mapex :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cameo View Post
I'm supporting European companies. I play Meinl cymbals. Would also like to play drums from here, but I don't like the bulkyness of Sonor. I like the fact when a product isn't mass produced.
Well, there are other European drum manufacturers too. Premier and Drumcraft are two of the big ones, and then there are a number of smaller custom builders as well.
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  #13  
Old 01-18-2012, 06:38 PM
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Default Re: Shot down by Mapex :(

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Originally Posted by RenaissanceMan View Post
Obviously and unfortunately, they don't seem to agree.
And that short sightedness is what I am confused about.
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  #14  
Old 01-18-2012, 06:49 PM
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Default Re: Shot down by Mapex :(

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Originally Posted by Fuo View Post
Can't really expect them to make exceptions... If they do it for you, they have to do it for everyone.

Plus... I doubt some bigwig US rep has the ability to get some random chinese factory worker to do something out of the usual... There's a lot of layers of separation in there... Maybe if it was a US company ;)
It doesn't quite work that way. All the factory worker does is build what they tell him to. The USA Sales rep, talks to the Taiwanese sales rep, and it goes from there. Mapex USA buys a lot of drums from Mapex. If it was for someone special enough, they would do it.
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  #15  
Old 01-18-2012, 06:58 PM
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Default Re: Shot down by Mapex :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naigewron View Post
Well, Mapex is a Taiwanese company, so it makes sense for their stuff to be made there ;-)
Good point.

Well, to me brand loyalty has a lot to do with where it comes from.
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  #16  
Old 01-18-2012, 07:00 PM
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Default Re: Shot down by Mapex :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by sticks4drums View Post
That is true. They will. I think I am somewhere in-between the two though. Many of the regulars on here have admitted that I kind of really opened people's eye's to the Mapex brand over the last year. I have my own web site that I talk a lot about my kits. My Monster kit has had lots of attention on many websites, and on youtube. I have spent a crap load on their product, and I could even venture to say that I probably give their product more exposure, than a lot of their smaller endorsed players, that nobody every hears about, do. The internet reaches a lot of folks. This site alone reaches many drummers around the world.
I'm familiar with your site, I've checked it out from your signature.

I'm curious how you're somewhere in-between being a professional/endorser and an "average joe". I mean I understand what you've outlined above in terms of your own exposure, but do you have an endorsement deal with Mapex?

If not, the sad truth is that you and all your affiliations (your website, YouTube, and all the other satellite sites that you reach) are simply free advertising for Mapex.

Regardless of how much exposure you're giving their product without their backing, I'm not sure Mapex "owes" you anything (that sounds harsh, but not sure how else to say it). Of course, many companies will treat their long-time customers. Usually in the form of stickers and whatnot.

Unless you're touring with a revenue-generating band or a solo artist that makes a living as a session drummer or whatever, it'll be a hard sell to get any percussion company to pony up that kind of resources for custom stuff.

If you come across a company that does though, you let me know!!!!!!!!!! :)
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  #17  
Old 01-18-2012, 07:03 PM
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Default Re: Shot down by Mapex :(

I've noticed on your web site you state, on your arctic white kit, that you have an 8x8 tom, yes? How did you get that one from Mapex?
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  #18  
Old 01-18-2012, 07:05 PM
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Default Re: Shot down by Mapex :(

Do you have a big Mapex sticker on your truck too?
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  #19  
Old 01-18-2012, 07:06 PM
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Default Re: Shot down by Mapex :(

8-inch toms are small and wimpy anyway. Get a real man's tom instead! *






*removes tongue from cheek
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  #20  
Old 01-18-2012, 07:07 PM
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Default Re: Shot down by Mapex :(

Sorry to hear that. What a disappointment. :(

So, when you burn your Mapex kits and use your internet resources to slander them, which company are you going to go with instead?
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  #21  
Old 01-18-2012, 07:08 PM
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Default Re: Shot down by Mapex :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naigewron View Post
Well, there are other European drum manufacturers too. Premier and Drumcraft are two of the big ones, and then there are a number of smaller custom builders as well.
Don't like Premiers new drum, nor Drumcraft. Geez, I'm too haughty...
Guru is something nice (hallos, Andy) and other exciting and exotic woody drums.

Why don't you ask for an endorsment, Sticks? You deserve one! :)
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  #22  
Old 01-18-2012, 07:08 PM
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Default Re: Shot down by Mapex :(

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Originally Posted by Richard.J View Post
I've noticed on your web site you state, on your arctic white kit, that you have an 8x8 tom, yes? How did you get that one from Mapex?
That is a regular Sku for Arctic White Saturn.
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  #23  
Old 01-18-2012, 07:11 PM
sticks4drums
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Default Re: Shot down by Mapex :(

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Originally Posted by Naigewron View Post
8-inch toms are small and wimpy anyway. Get a real man's tom instead! *






*removes tongue from cheek
Don't worry. I have many real mans toms, as you call them. :)
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  #24  
Old 01-18-2012, 07:16 PM
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Default Re: Shot down by Mapex :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by sticks4drums View Post
That is a regular Sku for Arctic White Saturn.
So it's not a size issue with the drum but a color/finish choice then? Have an outside source match the color and finish for you.

Car companies, clothing, etc play the same way. We are just dollar signs to EVERY company.
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  #25  
Old 01-18-2012, 07:17 PM
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Default Re: Shot down by Mapex :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by RenaissanceMan View Post
Obviously and unfortunately, they don't seem to agree.
Or it's simply the fact that they don't know about Sticks popularity on this forum, they're aware that he spend $14 000 on their gear, maybe they don't know about the free publicity they're getting from Sticks on this site and other sites and forums. Perhaps Sticks should explain this directly to Mapex management and maybe he'll get a more positive answer.

Over the years, I've propably spend nearly as much on Tama drums, but I never had any "special favours" from Tama, I had very good deals with the music shop owner, yes, and I managed to select some of my gears directly in the importator warehouse for Tama / Zildjian, but that's as far as special treatments is concerned.
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  #26  
Old 01-18-2012, 07:21 PM
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Default Re: Shot down by Mapex :(

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Originally Posted by caddywumpus View Post
So, when you burn your Mapex kits and use your internet resources to slander them, which company are you going to go with instead?
Hah. I predicted this in the ekit thread. It's Ludwig time for Sticks!
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  #27  
Old 01-18-2012, 07:21 PM
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Default Re: Shot down by Mapex :(

Today, I am ashamed to be a Mapex owner.




Tomorrow, I'll be fine again.
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  #28  
Old 01-18-2012, 07:24 PM
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Default Re: Shot down by Mapex :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Midnite Zephyr View Post
I think brand loyalty meant something before everything was made in China and Taiwan. At least Sabians are still made in Canada, right? I'm going to build my own pro kit with American made drum shells, and it will be made in the USA (maybe not the lugs).
If your interested I know where you can have a pro kit built with no lugs so it will be 100 % American made.
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  #29  
Old 01-18-2012, 07:26 PM
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Default Re: Shot down by Mapex :(

Do what I do, get the president of the company's name and tell him or her what you need. I always go as far up the food chain as possible. The person in charge may not even know that his sales reps are saying no to these things. grrrr
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  #30  
Old 01-18-2012, 07:27 PM
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Default Re: Shot down by Mapex :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by sticks4drums View Post
And that short sightedness is what I am confused about.
Sticks, I'm sorry.. but.. do you really think that for a company the size of Mapex, $14.000 is "a lot" of money???? That's probably what they spend on electricity on a single week.

If tomorrow you sold your Mapex kits and bought some other brand, and spent your whole life bashing Mapex on the internet... do you think they'll lose so much money that they'll go out of business??

Hell no. They won't even notice it.

You said it yourself: Custom ordering is expensive, and that is not Mapex's market niche. You want special orders for yourself? Wanna be treated like a rockstar? Well, there are many manufacturers who can do that for you. But certainly not Mapex.


SO.. I get your dissapointment, but hey, that's the way it is. They didn't do anything wrong.
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Old 01-18-2012, 07:35 PM
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Default Re: Shot down by Mapex :(

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Originally Posted by diegobxr View Post
Sticks, I'm sorry.. but.. do you really think that for a company the size of Mapex, $14.000 is "a lot" of money????

That's probably what they spend on electricity on a single week.

You said it yourself: Custom ordering is expensive, and that is not Mapex's market niche. You want special orders for yourself? Wanna be treated like a rockstar? Well, there are many manufacturers who can do that for you. But certainly not Mapex.


SO.. I get your dissapointment, but hey, that's the way it is. They didn't do anything wrong.
Hey buddy. I am not really saying it is right or wrong. Just looking for some grey area. Seems the more advanced a company gets, the less flexible they get. Just a few years ago, they did stuff like this. I asked for a 6" tom for my arctic kit when I first got it. It was not a regular Mapex sku, but there other company that makes school band stuff, made the same Saturn shell in the size I wanted. They said they would do it because they had the shells already, and just needed to paint it white. I decided to go the different depth 8" tom route instead.
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  #32  
Old 01-18-2012, 07:37 PM
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Default Re: Shot down by Mapex :(

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Originally Posted by Fuo View Post
Hah. I predicted this in the ekit thread. It's Ludwig time for Sticks!
In the beginning I would of gone with anyone that made the thin Walnut/Maple shell that my Saturn has. :)
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  #33  
Old 01-18-2012, 07:38 PM
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Default Re: Shot down by Mapex :(

I personally would feel betrayed by Mapex.

I have no doubt that Mapex has reps employed to surf forums like this one in order to see what is going on.

No doubt, they would know about sticks and the amount of time and effort he has put into his drums.

C'mon Mapex....for goodness sake.

If your company ever goes under...it is customers like sticks who could get you back again...dont forget that we are your bread and butter
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  #34  
Old 01-18-2012, 07:39 PM
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Default Re: Shot down by Mapex :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard.J View Post
We are just dollar signs to EVERY company.
If you'd ever dealt with our company, you'd know that's not true. We turn away work quite frequently, but never because it's too much trouble to keep a customer happy.

Sticks, sorry to hear of your deflating experience, genuinely. It's gut wrenching when you've put so much faith in a product, to then have them disregard your efforts. That said, I think it's worthwhile contacting Mapex directly. Mapex may well have placed the decision in the hands of their distributor. Sales rep's are notoriously poor at delivering bad news, & typically blame another party for the decision. It gives them an easy ride, rather than taking it on the chin & having to justify themselves. I'm not saying that is the case, but it's worth a shot.

If all else fails, it's not too difficult for a good custom builder to replicate the finish with a similar shell. The one saving aspect to that route, is that the specific shell construction for an 8" tom is far less critical than it is for larger toms with a more distinct voice. If you wanted to be really picky, there are builders who will bespoke manufacture a ply shell.

If it were me, I'd forget the idea & just enjoy your kit as it is. It's not as if you're stuck for choice of kits with 8" toms.
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  #35  
Old 01-18-2012, 07:39 PM
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Default Re: Shot down by Mapex :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by tard View Post
If your interested I know where you can have a pro kit built with no lugs so it will be 100 % American made.
That's cool. I'm on a very limited budget right now. This project is a future project and I think I can find some vintage lugs perhaps. Right now I have two projects going with old Pearl drums (made in Japan, btw).

To be honest, I have my preferences like anybody, but until somebody pays me money to endorse their product, I am loyal to nobody and I'll play whatever suits me at the time. Right now it's vintage Pearls.
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  #36  
Old 01-18-2012, 07:45 PM
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Default Re: Shot down by Mapex :(

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
If you'd ever dealt with our company, you'd know that's not true. We turn away work quite frequently, but never because it's too much trouble to keep a customer happy.

Sticks, sorry to hear of your deflating experience, genuinely. It's gut wrenching when you've put so much faith in a product, to then have them disregard your efforts. That said, I think it's worthwhile contacting Mapex directly. Mapex may well have placed the decision in the hands of their distributor. Sales rep's are notoriously poor at delivering bad news, & typically blame another party for the decision. It gives them an easy ride, rather than taking it on the chin & having to justify themselves. I'm not saying that is the case, but it's worth a shot.

If all else fails, it's not too difficult for a good custom builder to replicate the finish with a similar shell. The one saving aspect to that route, is that the specific shell construction for an 8" tom is far less critical than it is for larger toms with a more distinct voice. If you wanted to be really picky, there are builders who will bespoke manufacture a ply shell.

If it were me, I'd forget the idea & just enjoy your kit as it is. It's not as if you're stuck for choice of kits with 8" toms.
Hey buddy. I have no doubt what so ever that if I was dealing with a company like yours, this would not even be a topic. I don't want to sound like a spoiled brat here. I have more drums than anybody should. This just kind of took me back a bit. Made me remember who I was to them in the grand scheme of things. I won't loose any sleep over it. Just didn't think it was going to be a hard thing to accomplish. In my pre-medication days, I might of been on a plane to Taiwan. Look out! :)
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  #37  
Old 01-18-2012, 07:47 PM
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Default Re: Shot down by Mapex :(

they may not "owe" you anything and maybe $14k is small peanuts to them but I bet you are one of their largest accounts for an indivicual and think of how many people own their kits, never go on the internet with pics, never play out and compare that to the agressive (is this term to agressive?) support Mapeex gets from Sticks and I would say that IF they were going to make an exception for any non-endorsed customer, it would be Sticks.

Did you make a stink about it and get a real answer as to why they wont? Can you buy a different shell and make one? Does the $14k include electrical tape?
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  #38  
Old 01-18-2012, 07:50 PM
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Default Re: Shot down by Mapex :(

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Originally Posted by Toolate View Post
they may not "owe" you anything and maybe $14k is small peanuts to them but I bet you are one of their largest accounts for an indivicual and think of how many people own their kits, never go on the internet with pics, never play out and compare that to the agressive (is this term to agressive?) support Mapeex gets from Sticks and I would say that IF they were going to make an exception for any non-endorsed customer, it would be Sticks.

Did you make a stink about it and get a real answer as to why they wont? Can you buy a different shell and make one? Does the $14k include electrical tape?
Hey buddy. Thanks for the great reply. The electrical tape puts me way over the 14 k mark. I buy the good stuff you know. :)
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  #39  
Old 01-18-2012, 07:58 PM
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Default Re: Shot down by Mapex :(

dude this is awful.
F*ck any drum company that doesn't help out their customers.

I may not have ever played a Mapex kit but I feel like I may as well have owned one for years with the amount of promotion you've given them on this forum.

This is why you go with custom drum companies (or buy a used kit for cheap and just use it), because at the end of the day the big companies really don't care. Just another serial number on their automated far east production line.

It's the same reason I buy organic meat from a butcher instead of buying mass-produced gruel from Tescos. Big business sucks dicks, hopefully there'll be a major shift in attitudes in the next decades.
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  #40  
Old 01-18-2012, 08:02 PM
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Default Re: Shot down by Mapex :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by resohead View Post
Do what I do, get the president of the company's name and tell him or her what you need. I always go as far up the food chain as possible. The person in charge may not even know that his sales reps are saying no to these things. grrrr
This might work in the USA or even Western Europe, but you'd get laughed (or thrown) out the door just about anywhere in Asia, China and Taiwan included... FYI
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