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  #1  
Old 07-19-2005, 05:56 PM
nick1216
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Default PROTECT YOUR EARS - ear plugs, hearing loss, deafness

Does any body know what percautions do you take to avoid this problem. I have custom doctor made plugs but, is this all i can do?

To any one who's listening
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  #2  
Old 07-19-2005, 07:16 PM
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Default Re: Tennitis (ringing in the ears)

modern drummer published a very good series of articles on this topic a few years ago. here is the summary. all of you should read it a nd take it seriously. as musicians your ears are as valuable as you hands.





EAR DAMAGE IS CUMULATIVE
  • What you do to your ears today will BE ADDED to the damage tomorrow. When you are young you think nothing of this but the damage is accruing.


EAR DAMAGE IS PERMANENT
  • There is no cure. So take it very seriously.
  • my dad has had tinnitus in his right ear for twenty years. in the begining it always goes away after a day and so we are fooled into thinking this is going to be the case forever. not so. if you get tinnitus then you are in trouble and need to take immediate and drastic action!


EAR DAMAGE DOES NOT ALWAYS HURT
  • Sometimes there is pain and we vacate the noisy area but often there is no pain. The damage is just as bad either way.


EVERYONE’S EARS ARE AT RISK.
  • Every now and then you meet a super human who says: ‘loud sounds don’t affect me.’ You wait in twenty years time they will be saying: ‘what? Sorry? Could you please speak up?’
  • ear phones are just as damaging. decibles are where they are heard not made. so if it is loud in your ear then it is loud, regardless of whether the speaker is an 18 cone or a 3mm earphone diaphragm.


FOR US DRUMMERS.

The solution is obviously ear-plugs. But they are a bother. They cut out vital frequencies and they diminish our ability to hear our volume levels accurately and so control our dynamics. They get dirty or lost easily too.
i have many pairs in various locations. i don't wear them during the set at a gig but i shove them in as soon as we finish and any other time there is loud music. i also wear them during rehearsals and i avoid ridiculously loud night clubs. i force myself to play my car and room studio at reasonable levels and, where possible i practice drums on a pad rather than a kit.

j
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Old 07-19-2005, 07:43 PM
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Default Re: Tennitis (ringing in the ears)

Tinnitus: the perception of sound when there is none. Welcome to Drummerworld.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NUTHA JASON
The solution is obviously ear-plugs. But they are a bother. They cut out vital frequencies and they diminish our ability to hear our volume levels accurately and so control our dynamics. They get dirty or lost easily too.
I've tried a few things over the years, but these days I iuse the cheap little foam plugs that you get in bulk at your local drug store. They're the kind you twist into a tight cylinder, insert, and wait while they expand to completely block your ear canal. They chop something like 33 dB.

Do they sound good? Not really, but they're dirt cheap and quite effective. And I accidentally discovered something: I put the plugs in, put the headphones on over top, and somehow the EQ balance is much better than with either one ('phones or plugs) alone.

Protect your hearing now!
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Old 07-19-2005, 07:46 PM
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Default Re: Tennitis (ringing in the ears)

Interesting chart, NUTHA JASON. I never quite equated jazz drumming with a drill press before. Live and learn, eh wot!?
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Old 07-19-2005, 07:47 PM
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Default Re: Tennitis (ringing in the ears)

i use those exact earplugs too. one day i'm gonna splash out on pro plugs that cut volume but not frequency. but it is not worth waiting. protect your ears now!


i mean quite loud jazz. i think the soft touch of sheepskin kits and brushes has no health risk attached.

here is a pictoral representation of how we lose our hearing. the cochler is a coiled up tube with millions of bunches of hairs gently resting on a stif bonelike membrane. as the organ vibrated the hairs brush the organ and nerves at their roots send sound impulses to the brain. the hairs are stiff and short and brittle. at high decibels they bend snap and break and the less of them their are to touch the membrane the less we can hear. they never grow back or get replaced like the hairs on your arm do ... unfortunately.

j

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  #6  
Old 07-19-2005, 09:15 PM
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Default Re: PROTECT YOUR EARS.

There are clear blue plastic ones I use called ear planes. They turn down the volume and cut out less high's. I reccomend them over the regular foam ones. Also NJ I think it's really bad to not to wear plugs during a show. You have very loud montiors on top of the regular noise you generate with your band. That will catch up with you if you gig a lot.

http://www.take-care.com/hear/hhc/earplanes.html
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  #7  
Old 07-19-2005, 09:38 PM
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Default Re: PROTECT YOUR EARS.

yeah i know but i love the sound too much. still its usually just two hours a night, twice a week. as soon as the dj comes on, i'm plugged up. i make up for it by keeping my ears in the quiet all the rest of the time.

j
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  #8  
Old 07-19-2005, 09:47 PM
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Default Re: PROTECT YOUR EARS.

I use sound reduction head phones and hardly ever practice over an hour without taking a break for at least a little while.
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  #9  
Old 07-19-2005, 09:56 PM
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Default Re: PROTECT YOUR EARS.

the "Rock N Roll Hearos" or whatever they're called that they sell at Guitar Center are really good, they leave in a good balance of frequencies and give you a better idea of what your cymbals actually sound like. Plus they have the little carrying cylinder that is nice for leaving in your stick bag or carrying them to concerts.
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  #10  
Old 07-19-2005, 10:09 PM
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Default Re: PROTECT YOUR EARS.

I just wear headphones or earplugs. Whatever works best for you.
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Old 07-19-2005, 11:22 PM
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Default Re: PROTECT YOUR EARS.

Thanks for the tips. I use my Vic Firth 22db mufflephones when I'm really bashing, but usually i just go without, and dont have any ringing or anything. Should I wear plugs when I'm just playing lightly, or is this excessive? Thanks again for the warning,

Rob
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  #12  
Old 07-19-2005, 11:33 PM
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Default Re: PROTECT YOUR EARS.

I wear shooting muffs. They work quite nicely, cutting down 32 decibels, and believe it or not, they actually cut out a lot of the echo I get from my basement. Because there is no soundproofing or drywall in my basement, it can't be absorbed anywhere, but with the headphones, it eliminates them.
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  #13  
Old 07-20-2005, 03:18 AM
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Default Re: PROTECT YOUR EARS.

Thanks for the chart NJ, I'd never seen something like that before.
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  #14  
Old 07-20-2005, 05:50 AM
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Default Re: PROTECT YOUR EARS.

I use big headphones that hug my ear all over and it muffles the sound pretty well.
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  #15  
Old 07-20-2005, 06:41 AM
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Default Re: PROTECT YOUR EARS.

Quote:
ear phones are just as damaging. decibles are where they are heard not made. so if it is loud in your ear then it is loud, regardless of whether the speaker is an 18 cone or a 3mm earphone diaphragm.
Ultrasone headphones claim to be safer than regular headphones.

http://www.ultrasoneusa.com/press_releases.php
Quote:
S-Logic also reduces the risk of hearing damage by 40% as the headphone’s transducers are not aimed directly at the auditory canal. Listeners perceive the same volume with sound press levels at the eardrum reduced up to 40%...
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  #16  
Old 07-20-2005, 05:24 PM
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Default Re: PROTECT YOUR EARS.

i use ear plugs when i practise alone and with my band... and sometimes during a live show, depends on the lenght on the show.. but, i played drums for 4years withour any protection.. and i have some type of ear damage, so protect you ears drummer... just a tip..
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  #17  
Old 07-20-2005, 05:36 PM
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Default Re: PROTECT YOUR EARS.

My ears used to get bothered when i first started polaying years ago. I tried ear muffs and head phones you name it. And i just decided that it wasnt worth it. The ear plugs and head phones just made it harder for me to ear my band. This is just my opion i would say just dont worry bout the loud sound yur ears will get used to it. Although if it is herting your ears then dont take my advice take your doctors advice.
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  #18  
Old 07-20-2005, 06:12 PM
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Default Re: PROTECT YOUR EARS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GPinney
i would say just dont worry bout the loud sound yur ears will get used to it.


I've got links to some good Sign Language websites to anyone who follows this advice.
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  #19  
Old 07-21-2005, 01:36 AM
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Default Re: PROTECT YOUR EARS.

What i do when i play is wear earplugs and then isolation headphones on top of that. Basically it doubles up the protection i can get from the noisiness of playing in a band. It works for me.
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  #20  
Old 07-21-2005, 08:42 AM
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Default Re: PROTECT YOUR EARS.

gpinney wrote:

Quote:
This is just my opion i would say just dont worry bout the loud sound yur ears will get used to it.
but the experts say ...

Quote:
EVERYONE’S EARS ARE AT RISK.
  • Every now and then you meet a super human who says: ‘loud sounds don’t affect me.’ You wait in twenty years time they will be saying: ‘what? Sorry? Could you please speak up?’
gpinney wrote:
Quote:
Although if it is herting your ears then dont take my advice take your doctors advice.
but the experts say ...

Quote:
EAR DAMAGE DOES NOT ALWAYS HURT
  • Sometimes there is pain and we vacate the noisy area but often there is no pain. The damage is just as bad either way.
seems like everyone else on this thread takes this aspect of drumming very seriously ...
i said VERY SERIOUS gpinney! did he hear me? hello? wait....i'll spell it out with flags for him.

jokes

j
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  #21  
Old 07-23-2005, 02:33 AM
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Default Re: PROTECT YOUR EARS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GPinney
i would say just dont worry bout the loud sound yur ears will get used to it.
GPinney - I can't believe what I'm reading here - also remembering that so many young drummers look for advice in this forum - really out of control.

jokes??? - NO

Bernhard
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  #22  
Old 07-23-2005, 05:39 AM
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Default Re: PROTECT YOUR EARS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GPinney
My ears used to get bothered when i first started polaying years ago. I tried ear muffs and head phones you name it. And i just decided that it wasnt worth it. The ear plugs and head phones just made it harder for me to ear my band. This is just my opion i would say just dont worry bout the loud sound yur ears will get used to it. Although if it is herting your ears then dont take my advice take your doctors advice.
Are you ABSOLUTELY crazy???? I'm not gonna pretend that I'm saintly about ear protection, but to say that "it's okay, you'll get used to it" is like saying "jog on concrete everyday and your knees won't get f*****, they just harden up and take the pain".....
I'll tell you one thing right now, when you come out of a gig and your ears are ringing, that is your body's way of letting you know that you have temporarily damaged it, and that it needs to heal before you do something like that again, or else.... YOU [W*I*L*L] go deaf.

P.S. - Nutha Jason, isn't your signature something that Jimi H. said to Jimmy P.??? f***** BRILLIANT quote!

Last edited by DogBreath; 09-14-2005 at 11:51 PM. Reason: Edited for inappropriate language
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  #23  
Old 07-23-2005, 07:23 AM
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Default Re: PROTECT YOUR EARS.

Ok I'm dazed and confused, It sounds like you are all saying you need to wear ear plugs all the time when you're playing. I wear ear plugs at gigs but not when I'm practicing at home with just my drums and no amplification. Should I wear them when I practice as well? Will just the sound of the drums and cymbals alone result in loss of hearing? Of course If you heard my playing you would want to wear ear plugs too. LOL
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Old 07-23-2005, 11:21 AM
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Default Re: PROTECT YOUR EARS.

Okay. My dad gave me this idea, but it's just perfect. What you do is get an effects proccessor(fx processor) that has an ear plug jack. Then get these earplugs made by Koss. What they do, is they're made out of this material that can go deep inside your ear. I forgot what the darn thing is called, but it's basically an effects processor with a microphone. If you play into the microphone, and have the koss earplugs, the only thing you can hear is yourself, and not your band playing, so you don't have to listen to those suckers! I really wish I knew the name of the fx processor...I'll try to get a link tomorrow by asking my dad. While you're waiting, here's a link to the earplugs...

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...&s=pc&n=507846
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Old 07-23-2005, 11:55 AM
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Default Re: PROTECT YOUR EARS.

Just one thing to make it easier for you to decide playing with earplugs:

With earplugs you get better dynamics with the Band, because you hear better, what sounds great for the audience and not only just for you. I mean, what you don't hear with earplugs also the public will not hear, because it's not clear enough articulated. So you get a better clearer style....DC told me this and was confirmed by my bandmates..

Bernhard
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  #26  
Old 07-23-2005, 01:27 PM
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Default Re: PROTECT YOUR EARS.

i agree. i went out after this thread started and bought some more expensive earplugs (etymotic ER.20) . these ones lowered decibels evenly across the frequency range and i hear everything just the way it normally sounds only slightly quieter. i will wear these during sets and then the much stronger and cheaper foam ones when the dj comes on while i pack up.

as for wearing em while you practice, of course yes!

j
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  #27  
Old 07-23-2005, 11:52 PM
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Default Re: PROTECT YOUR EARS.

When i were just earplugs, or just the sound reduction head phones, i cant heare the music clearly, and they change the sound. This may sound weird, but it works. Put in the earplugs, then put on the sound reduction headphones. together, the sound is perfect, just at a lower volume. I think its because the head phones cut out high frequency stuff, leaving more bass, and ear plugs do the opposite. Idk, it works for me. plus it makes my kit sound even better, kind off as if it were miked. idk.
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Old 07-23-2005, 11:55 PM
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Default Re: PROTECT YOUR EARS.

I wear those huge blue Vic Firth Isolation headphones for when I play with my band and practice. I've tried playing without earplugs and after one minute of loud playing I had to put my isolation headphones back on.
People during my band's shows probably think the headphones look goofy, but at least I know my ears are protected.
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  #29  
Old 07-24-2005, 04:05 AM
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Default Re: PROTECT YOUR EARS.

the problem is that usually when i play with someone its with monitors which isnt the problem. the problem is the fact that they have click tracks, if i cant hear the track then im screwed....
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  #30  
Old 07-24-2005, 11:58 AM
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Default Re: PROTECT YOUR EARS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drumzalicious
the problem is that usually when i play with someone its with monitors which isnt the problem. the problem is the fact that they have click tracks, if i cant hear the track then im screwed....

Hmm, don't get it....

Is it not YOU managing the clicks? Or can't you give the clicks into your mix?

Bernhard
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  #31  
Old 07-24-2005, 04:17 PM
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Default Re: PROTECT YOUR EARS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dustpan65
What i do when i play is wear earplugs and then isolation headphones on top of that. Basically it doubles up the protection i can get from the noisiness of playing in a band. It works for me.
I also do that. I sometimes put my earplugs and then put above some headphones. But I don't know if it's that good. Putting headphones creates a different kinda effect. The music is softer, but the bases are louder.

I really don't know. But it sounds great if I put the two :-)
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  #32  
Old 07-30-2005, 01:22 AM
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Default Re: PROTECT YOUR EARS.

Quote:
People during my band's shows probably think the headphones look goofy, but at least I know my ears are protected.
Just decorate them so it goes with your style of music. Thats what im planning to do. I just got into drumming (a month and a half) but i plan to play black metal and related style of music, so im trying to figure out a way to decorate my isolation headphone to match my style. Or just let your hair grow over your headphone :P

As for db level... i bought those practice pad you put over the head of the snare , tom and bass drum. For the cymbal, its a foam that i put that reduce the effect of the cymbal. the sound is not great, i must admit it, but at least its safe for everyone who play music with me and the neighbors dont bother me as well.
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  #33  
Old 07-30-2005, 01:33 AM
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Default Re: PROTECT YOUR EARS.

I always have headphones, always, and at the same time those headphones have a built in metronome so, it always kind of "forces" me to practice more with my metronome hehe.

I've been thinking of having custom made ear plug's that reduces the sound to a certain number of decibel's, for live show's, but I'm still not sure.
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Old 07-30-2005, 02:46 AM
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Default Re: PROTECT YOUR EARS.

I've got a set of Peltor heavy-duty earmuff things that kinda look like the Vic Firth isolators, but they're white instead. They're designed for construction workers, and made by the same people that provide the communication system in Subaru WRC cars, so they're definitely good at keeping out noise. They've also taught me to play quieter too -- when I wore them originally, all I could hear was myself drumming, and only a whisper of the guitar and bass...
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Old 07-30-2005, 05:27 PM
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Default Re: PROTECT YOUR EARS.

Hey guys... Call me overprotective but, (personally) I find that using "Hear-o" ear plugs AND sound dampening ear phones lower my volume as a whole. Using both allows me to hear each drum individually more clearly at a much lower volume AND be able to hear my band with no problem. Call me crazy...but it works for me. I guess its just a combination of low end dampening by the "Hear-os" and the high end dampening by the ear phones.

What works for me might not work for anyone else...guess it also depends on how your drums are tuned.
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  #36  
Old 07-30-2005, 08:34 PM
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Default Re: PROTECT YOUR EARS.

I dont use any ear protection but i usually use an electric kit. I have an accoustic and electric kit but i use the electric so it doesnt effect my hearing. Its only at practice when i use an accoustic kit. Do i need protection then ? Me and my band play for at least an hour a week and we usually play very loud.
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  #37  
Old 07-31-2005, 06:26 AM
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Default Re: PROTECT YOUR EARS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by O J
Do i need protection then ? Me and my band play for at least an hour a week and we usually play very loud.
I would say as long as your playing on your acoustic kit it will always be at a loud enough level that you will need earplugs. You can go to your doctor and have an earmold made for your ear for special plugs that block out loud sounds and allow lower level decibels such as a person speaking, which would work well with a band practice but also more expensive. As for me, i just practice with sleeping earplugs(or shooting earplugs) that you roll and put into your ear and they expand.

There actually have been studies that drummers have lost hearing from drumming on the ride cymbal. I think the artical was on jazz drumming because of the playing on the ride would build and the drummers would usually go deaf in one ear after so much playing.

I would reccommend using earplugs, i do.

Here's something to try, plug your ears and play normally for about 10 minutes, then remove your plugs and play at the same level... and even if you had previously been playing without earplugs you will see how loud this really is!
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  #38  
Old 07-31-2005, 01:30 PM
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NUTHA JASON NUTHA JASON is offline
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Default Re: PROTECT YOUR EARS.

good post hot sauce. it is true. take the plugs out and its shocking how loud things are. ears actually protect themselves by shutting down the loudness but that doesn't stop the damage.

its the boiling frog syndrome. put a frog in a pot of hot water and it will immediately jump out. put a frog in cool water and then slowly heat it up and the frog will stay and boil to death.

tinnitus i've heard is actually an amazing thing. the ear is creating its own sound to cut the frequencies of damaging sounds outside the ear. it is like the doppler effect ... a peak wave made by the ear goes some way to cancelling out a trough wave from outside. the problem is that the ear doesn't stop making this high pitched whine when the external sounbds cease and so, late at night you still 'hear' your own ears. weird.

j
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  #39  
Old 07-31-2005, 07:52 PM
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Capitaine Quebec Capitaine Quebec is offline
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Default Re: PROTECT YOUR EARS.

thats why you ears are still buzzing after a concert.... ! it explain everything :P

Quote:
You can go to your doctor and have an earmold made for your ear for special plugs that block out loud sounds and allow lower level decibels such as a person speaking, which would work well with a band practice but also more expensive.
Do you know how much it cost? id like to do that
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Old 08-01-2005, 02:43 AM
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Default Re: PROTECT YOUR EARS.

I went to a concert about a month ago and was front row, near the speakers, and afterwards, my ears were ringing for almost 4 or 5 days straight, its gone away or has minimized A LOT, but im going in for an appointment tuesday do have them make some custom ear plugs, i go to a lot of concerts and play drums so its gonna be worth it, i think for everything it runs around 100 dollars, but after expierencing the ringing for 5 days, its really worth the money. wear ear plugs people.
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