Jazz drummers to get me started?

[smithy78]

Hey guys! Was watching some jazz video on youtube, can't remember what it was or who the drummer was. But I was amazed by the technique, it looked extremley difficult to play and the timing was weird. I really want to get into jazz drumming, but don't where to start. What drummers should I check out? Who were the best jazz drummers? Thanks...

[Garvin]

Smithy smithy smithy.... There are literally dozens of great threads on this very subject posted all over the forum. Try searching "Jazz" or "Jazz drummers" in the search option. Also, listen to as much as you can. Try going on Pandora.com and create a few stations with some of the names you dig up here.

Jazz drumming isn't something that gets handed to you. You gotta expect to do some work. Check out the current "Beyon Bop Drumming" thread. There's some great recent activity there. There are a ton of very opinionated and informative members on here as well, so hang out and you'll start getting some direction.

[caddywumpus]

Yeah, try searching the videos here on Drummerworld, read the threads here (search "jazz"), and check out the books "The Art of Bop Drumming" and "Beyond Bop Drumming" (in that order). It's kind of daunting where to start, but I'm sure you'll come across something that will spark your interest more and probably even be accessible to your current drumming level very soon. The most important thing when studying a certain style of drumming is to immerse yourself in it. Listen listen listen...

...I'd start by studying Art Blakey, move on to Philly Jo Jones, eventually get around to Max Roach, and then definitely study Tony Williams and Buddy Rich.

[BUDDHA 2533]

Brian Blade is a drummer you should definately check out if your interested in jazz

Elvin Jones
Art Blackey
Philly Jo Jones
Tony Williams
Dave Weckl


Those alone will give you a lifetime of things to study.

[oops]

I would get the book 'Art of Bop Drumming' by John Riley.

If at all possible I'd also get a teacher, but if you don't want to, I'd suggest you check out the album Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers for a great place to start. The first track is called Moanin', and it's a text book example of jazz swing feel.

Further down the line I'd start to check out Max Roach, but Art Blakey is definitely a good ease in point.

[smithy78]

Cool, thanks for the help guys.

[Garvin]

Originally Posted by TheArchitect

Dave Weckl

????

You might as well add Stewart Copeland to the list as well. Weckl doesn't belong on that list as a jazz drummer.

[jazzgregg]

Originally Posted by Garvin

????

You might as well add Stewart Copeland to the list as well. Weckl doesn't belong on that list as a jazz drummer.

Absolutely correct. Take Art Blackey off that list too- rather try art Blakey, and add an 'e' to Philly Joe (not Papa Jo). Max Roach is great entrance point, as is Jimmy Cobb.

G

[oops]

Weckl HAS done the occasional straight ahead gig, but Weckl, Elvin, and Williams are all pretty out there for getting into jazz drumming

[jazzgregg]

Originally Posted by oops

Weckl HAS done the occasional straight ahead gig

Like what?

G

.....................................

Bernard "Buddy" Rich.


'nuff said.

[oops]

Originally Posted by jazzgregg

Like what?

G

.....................................

Here's an interesting clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YlOR...eature=related

Weckl, Patitucci, Arturo Sandoval (with a host of others) playing in the GRP All-Star Big Band.

Swinging version of Seven Steps to Heaven.

Definitely not fusion, not incredibly straight, but it swings nonetheless. Weckl's DW page credits him for playing with Arturo Sandoval as well as Diana Ross (just for an interesting note).

[brittc89]

Originally Posted by oops

Here's an interesting clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YlOR...eature=related

Weckl, Patitucci, Arturo Sandoval (with a host of others) playing in the GRP All-Star Big Band.

Swinging version of Seven Steps to Heaven.

Definitely not fusion, not incredibly straight, but it swings nonetheless. Weckl's DW page credits him for playing with Arturo Sandoval as well as Diana Ross (just for an interesting note).

Im sorry, but thats so fusiony. Its not just the sound, but the vocabulary and the phrasing. Theres nothing wrong with fusion or the fact that thats how Weckl plays, but thats what he does. Ive never heard him not play fusion, even in straight-ahead settings.

[brittc89]

Originally Posted by BUDDHA 2533

Brian Blade is a drummer you should definately check out if your interested in jazz

I would suggest first listening to where the modern players are coming from. Im not saying Brian Blade isnt someone to listen to, but Id start with Max Roach, Philly Joe, Jimmy Cobb. I actually think Billy Higgins is a good starting point, grab some Lee Morgan.

[jonescrusher]

Frankie Dunlop has a very accessible sound, especially when it comes to soloing. Search for him with Theo Monk on Youtube ofr some good stuff.

[jazzgregg]

Brit is absolutely correct in his comments about that Weckl clip. Anything on GRP and with people like Eric Marienthal are never going to be a 'Jazz' gig. And again, like Brit said, fusion is fusion, that's fine, it's just not 'Jazz'.

Frankie Dunlop, no one ever mentions him, nice! He's great and is extremely underrated, a good choice- his Monk and Rollins stuff alone is easy to find and well worth it.

G

[oops]

Alright. I'll admit that Weckl has a hard time hiding his fusion roots.

But for one more (slightly off-topic) video, here's the GRP Big Band (again) with Sister Sadie.

I think it's a lot to do with his phrasing and ideas around the kit, but also his choice of equipment (ie, the splash cymbal at 1.28).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMPZ7...eature=related

Tell me what you think. I believe it swings.

[Serious Pie Enthusiast]

Don't start with buddy rich. I might be bias since i just don't like him, but his phrasing and overplaying can be in good taste. it's just for me

Add ed thigpen to the list :)

[lochday]

Start with the drummers already mentioned to get a good foundation: Art Blakey, papa jo Jones, Philly Joe jones, Francky Dunlop, Max Roach, Billy Higgins, Jimmy Cobb, Charlie Persips, and also some European jazz drummers like Daniel Humair and Aldo Romano...

If you really want to do jazz, avoid fusion drummers. You can study them later but G is right when he says it isn't jazz.

Do not start with Elvin Jones, not that he isn't a jazz drummer but because he was such an ET jazz drummer, and it takes a hard time before understanding and mastering everything he did. Tony Williams, ditto. Book them for later dates though.

Of course books, lot of listening and transcription, a teacher and a lot of practice, also if possible with Jazz musicians and ... patience!

Keep swinging.

[brittc89]

Originally Posted by oops

Alright. I'll admit that Weckl has a hard time hiding his fusion roots.

But for one more (slightly off-topic) video, here's the GRP Big Band (again) with Sister Sadie.

I think it's a lot to do with his phrasing and ideas around the kit, but also his choice of equipment (ie, the splash cymbal at 1.28).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMPZ7...eature=related

Tell me what you think. I believe it swings.

Im sorry, but enough with defending weckl's "jazz" playing. This guy wants to know good people to get him started in jazz and I think weve established that Weckl is not the way to go because he plays fusion, seemingly exclusively. Some people have sadis ome great players to check out, give those guys a shot.

Originally Posted by jazzgregg

Brit is absolutely correct in his comments about that Weckl clip. Anything on GRP and with people like Eric Marienthal are never going to be a 'Jazz' gig. And again, like Brit said, fusion is fusion, that's fine, it's just not 'Jazz'.

Frankie Dunlop, no one ever mentions him, nice! He's great and is extremely underrated, a good choice- his Monk and Rollins stuff alone is easy to find and well worth it.

G

Listen to this guy folks. He knows his onions. And he doesn't need me to say that either, but I felt I ought to.

Incidentally, if you want to start listening to something more 'out there' this is a pretty decent listen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2rGMGp6gYE

Check out the Max Roach hi-hat sound.

[Steamer]

Originally Posted by lochday

Do not start with Elvin Jones, not that he isn't a jazz drummer but because he was such an ET jazz drummer, and it takes a hard time before understanding and mastering everything he did. Tony Williams, ditto. Book them for later dates though.

.

Why not..I did... :} Elvin was the first jazz drummer I heard on recordings when I was a teenager same with Tony due to my early first older jazz mentor at the time. He also took me on the complete tour of what and who came before which is equally as important to do.

Nothing wrong with jumping in head first into Elvin in my view and hearing his deep concept related to jazz music and jazz drumming...

[lochday]

Originally Posted by Steamer

Why not..I did... :} Elvin was the first jazz drummer I heard on recordings when I was a teenager same with Tony due to my early first older jazz mentor at the time. He also took me on the complete tour of what and who came before which is equally as important to do.

Nothing wrong with jumping in head first into Elvin in my view and hearing his deep concept related to jazz music and jazz drumming...

Why not? Indeed it is quite possible, but I still don't think it is the best choice when STARTING jazz. That's what I did and still do. As you said you were also taken on a complete tour of what and who came before him. So was I. My reason for advising not STARTING with Elvin is because there's so much before him and he arrived sort of out of the blue with something entirely new and, what's more with a drumming arsenal not so easily traceable from the past (why he is so great indeed and why I said he was an ET). But still, it is also very important to start studying drummers and the music we like best. So why not Elvin or Tony for that matter rather than Paul Barbarin ...

[Steamer]

Originally Posted by lochday

Why not? Indeed it is quite possible, but I still don't think it is the best choice when STARTING jazz. That's what I did and still do. As you said you were also taken on a complete tour of what and who came before him. So was I. My reason for advising not STARTING with Elvin is because there's so much before him and he arrived sort of out of the blue with something entirely new and, what's more with a drumming arsenal not so easily traceable from the past (why he is so great indeed and why I said he was an ET). But still, it is also very important to start studying drummers and the music we like best. So why not Elvin or Tony for that matter rather than Paul Barbarin ...

You're right on with what you're saying too. From Elvin and Tony lead straight to Max, Art , Philly, Roy etc.. etc..right back to the early roots Baby Dodd's.

For me hearing Elvin was just such a sudden moment of a musical revelation {the light bulb switched ON} that it kick started my brain in a certain way to discover the true world of what the conception was of a hardcore jazz drummer coming out of a rock music background and mindest I had at the time in my early teens back in the 70's. It was that POW! moment for me in life musically speaking, hopefully for other young drummers coming up even today regarding getting hooked on jazz.

Check them all out!

[jazzgregg]

Originally Posted by lochday

Why not? Indeed it is quite possible, but I still don't think it is the best choice when STARTING jazz. That's what I did and still do. As you said you were also taken on a complete tour of what and who came before him. So was I. My reason for advising not STARTING with Elvin is because there's so much before him and he arrived sort of out of the blue with something entirely new and, what's more with a drumming arsenal not so easily traceable from the past (why he is so great indeed and why I said he was an ET). But still, it is also very important to start studying drummers and the music we like best. So why not Elvin or Tony for that matter rather than Paul Barbarin ...

As I have said in the past on here, I support (and use with my students) Lochday's idea of step by step. Without a solid foundation, knowledge of history, evolution, etc., it's rare a well rounded Jazz musician will emerge. I think Loch's post #20 should be the one that people look to when they ask the thread's question, every time (but not just because he mentioned Humair and Romano=). And Brit's Weckl assessment's should close the book on anyone recommending him for a Jazz drummer to check out.

G

[Steamer]

Originally Posted by jazzgregg

As I have said in the past on here, I support (and use with my students) Lochday's idea of step by step. Without a solid foundation, knowledge of history, evolution, etc., it's rare a well rounded Jazz musician will emerge. I think Loch's post #20 should be the one that people look to when they ask the thread's question, every time (but not just because he mentioned Humair and Romano=). And Brit's Weckl assessment's should close the book on anyone recommending him for a Jazz drummer to check out.

G

Same with me G going on now 30 years of teaching jazz drumming.

Starting with Elvin first to uncover the whole wonderful world of jazz music and jazz drumming certainly has not hurt me {or my later to follow professional career} one bit which is the point I was getting across based on my own personal experience on the subject I brought to the thread being my jazz awakening from hearing Elvin Jones on recordings in my teens.

Each has their own process and journey when it comes to jazz so pick your reference point{s} and do you homework and have fun along the way.

P. S. you moving to London, England G? I can hook you up with some of my further contacts in the improvised music scene over there that live in London. Go say hi to Kenny Wheeler from me :}

[Deltadrummer]

Originally Posted by Steamer

You're right on with what you're saying too. From Elvin and Tony lead straight to Max, Art , Philly, Roy etc.. etc..right back to the early roots Baby Dodd's.

For me hearing Elvin was just such a sudden moment of a musical revelation {the light bulb switched ON} that it kick started my brain in a certain way to discover the true world of what the conception was of a hardcore jazz drummer coming out of a rock music background and mindest I had at the time in my early teens back in the 70's. It was that POW! moment for me in life musically speaking, hopefully for other young drummers coming up even today regarding getting hooked on jazz.

Check them all out!

It's an interesting question to ask, how do young people get into jazz today?

For guys who are in their mid-50's it was Krupa, Buddy and Louie.My mom must have asked one of the drummers who worked in the place where she waitressed ecause that's how I go into it. You would stay up late if Buddy or Louie were on The Tonight show with Ed Schaunessy. And Buddy would be non-responsive to Johnny Carson's questions. Johnny would poke his head up in disbelief. But a lot of those albums were not very interesting to an 11 year old.

But that was not really what got me into jazz. It was Jeff Beck's Wired. I was at a local department store and it had just come out. It was on sale for 3.99 and all of the college guys were getting it. So I picked it up. I hated it. Then I remember picking it up three weeks later and then really liking it a lot. I went out and bought every John Mclaughlin album I cold get my hands on, and then Miles and then Coltrane, then Mingus and Dizzy and Parker. That is probably a typical story. But there has to be something that sparked your interest and it need not have been a jazz track. For me it was the drums on Led Boots. For this poster, he should find out who the drummer was on that track, and then who were his influences . . . and then . . well then your in.

But today, how does someone find out about Jeff Watts, Clayton Cameron, Bill Stewart or Daphnis Prieto? I guess you pick up a MD festival DVD and there are these guys on there.

[Steamer]

Originally Posted by Deltadrummer

It's an interesting question to ask, how do young people get into jazz today?

For guys who are in their mid-50's it was Krupa, Buddy and Louie.My mom must have asked one of the drummers who worked in the place where she waitressed ecause that's how I go into it. You would stay up late if Buddy or Louie were on The Tonight show with Ed Schaunessy. And Buddy would be non-responsive to Johnny Carson's questions. Johnny would poke his head up in disbelief. But a lot of those albums were not very interesting to an 11 year old.

But that was not really what got me into jazz. It was Jeff Beck's Wired. I was at a local department store and it had just come out. It was on sale for 3.99 and all of the college guys were getting it. So I picked it up. I hated it. Then I remember picking it up three weeks later and then really liking it a lot. I went out and bought every John Mclaughlin album I cold get my hands on, and then Miles and then Coltrane, then Mingus and Dizzy and Parker. That is probably a typical story. But there has to be something that sparked your interest and it need not have been a jazz track. For me it was the drums on Led Boots. For this poster, he should find out who the drummer was on that track, and then who were his influences . . . and then . . well then your in.

But today, how does someone find out about Jeff Watts, Clayton Cameron, Bill Stewart or Daphnis Prieto? I guess you pick up a MD festival DVD and there are these guys on there.

You get somebody to expose them to the recordings Ken. That's how it worked for me hearing Elvin's" Live at the Lighthouse" when I was 17 {maybe 18 i'm getting old} and let them take it for there if it's keens one's interest. I met sombody who had a mutual friend who was a older professional jazz musician, a alto sax player and band teacher who saw I had some talent but needed to focus my energy to get a "concept" for jazz and jazz drummers happening. He ambushed me with several recordings in a good way starting with Elvin and Tony that left a deep and permanent imprint on my musical makeup from that point on.

I guess these days one thing that could help to do it is getting early exposure to the current tremendous archive of DVD jazz footage at one's disposal available of the old crew right up to the present leading lights.

[RobertM]

Originally Posted by Steamer

Why not..I did... :} Elvin was the first jazz drummer I heard on recordings when I was a teenager same with Tony due to my early first older jazz mentor at the time. He also took me on the complete tour of what and who came before which is equally as important to do.

Nothing wrong with jumping in head first into Elvin in my view and hearing his deep concept related to jazz music and jazz drumming...

Here is some advice I got from Terri Lyne Carrington (a great, kind jazz drummer) about "getting into jazz":

Get some later Roy Haynes as well. Now He Sings, Now He Sobs is a great classic of Chick Corea's with Roy that I love a lot. Get Elvin on any Coltrane recordings. Get Max Roach with Bird [Charlie Parker] or his solo recordings. Get Forest Flower by Keith Jarrett for classic [Jack] DeJohnette, but also get one of the Standards CD by Keith with Jack. Keep working with the Syncopation [Ted Reed's] book too.

Regarding the whole debate over whether or not to start with Coltrane or people obsessing over Elvin's drumming with Coltrane, here is jazz drummer Kenny Washington's take:

Elvin Jones is one of the most misunderstood drummers ever. He clocked a lot of hours practicing the Wilcoxin books, getting his rudimental thing together, playing brushes, and studying with classical percussionists. But people are too busy listening to Elvin Jones with John Coltrane, and they forget that Elvin was a master ensemble drummer. Elvin could play some greasy 2 and 4, and a killing shuffle, but people only listen to him playing in that 'Coltrane bag.'

Source: Kenny Washington, Modern Drummer (Feb. 2009: 88).

I would recommend listening to Art Blakey big time--either Moanin' or A Night in Tunisia (Art Blakey & The Jazz Messengers). The latter album is awesome: it has the great Lee Morgan, a killing swing on the tune "Sincerely Diana," and one of my favorite drum solos on "Kozo's Waltz."

Other favorites that first got me into jazz many years ago:

• Charlie Parker & Dizzy Gillespie, Bird & Diz (with Buddy Rich on drums)
• John Coltrane, Giant Steps (Jimmy Cobb, Lex Humphries, Art Taylor on drums)
• Sonny Stitt, Now (Osie Johnson on drums)
• Miles Davis, Kind of Blue (Jimmy Cobb drums) - the gold standard jazz album

Another great album is Thelonius Monk Quartet with John Coltrane at Carnegie Hall; the awesome Shadow Wilson on drums!

For modern stuff, I have found the following to be exciting and inspiring:

• Ellis Marsalis Quartet, Open Letter to Thelonius Monk (Jason Marsalis on drums)
• Dave Holland Sextet, Pass It On (Eric Harland on drums)
• Clarence Penn, Play-Penn (Clarence Penn on drums)
• Joshua Redman, Mood Swing (Brian Blade on drums) and Back East (Brian Blade & Eric Harland on drums)
• Troy Andrews Quintet, The End of the Beginning (Jason Marsalis on drums)
• Cyrus Chestnut, Soul Food (Lewis Nash & Neal Smith on drums)
• Dena DeRose, I Can See Clearly Now (Matt Wilson on drums)

Lastly, I think anything with Jason Marsalis, Bill Stewart, Matt Wilson, and especially Eric Harland on drums would be good. All four display great musicality in their playing.

Have fun!

[Steamer]

Originally Posted by RobertM

Here is some advice I got from Terri Lyne Carrington (a great, kind jazz drummer) about "getting into jazz":



Regarding the whole debate over whether or not to start with Coltrane or people obsessing over Elvin's drumming with Coltrane, here is jazz drummer Kenny Washington's take:



Source: Kenny Washington, Modern Drummer (Feb. 2009: 88).

I would recommend listening to Art Blakey big time--either Moanin' or A Night in Tunisia (Art Blakey & The Jazz Messengers). The latter album is awesome: it has the great Lee Morgan, a killing swing on the tune "Sincerely Diana," and one of my favorite drum solos on "Kozo's Waltz."

Other favorites that first got me into jazz many years ago:

• Charlie Parker & Dizzy Gillespie, Bird & Diz (with Buddy Rich on drums)
• John Coltrane, Giant Steps (Jimmy Cobb, Lex Humphries, Art Taylor on drums)
• Sonny Stitt, Now (Osie Johnson on drums)
• Miles Davis, Kind of Blue (Jimmy Cobb drums) - the gold standard jazz album

Another great album is Thelonius Monk Quartet with John Coltrane at Carnegie Hall; the awesome Shadow Wilson on drums!

For modern stuff, I have found the following to be exciting and inspiring:

• Ellis Marsalis Quartet, Open Letter to Thelonius Monk (Jason Marsalis on drums)
• Dave Holland Sextet, Pass It On (Eric Harland on drums)
• Clarence Penn, Play-Penn (Clarence Penn on drums)
• Joshua Redman, Mood Swing (Brian Blade on drums) and Back East (Brian Blade & Eric Harland on drums)
• Troy Andrews Quintet, The End of the Beginning (Jason Marsalis on drums)
• Cyrus Chestnut, Soul Food (Lewis Nash & Neal Smith on drums)
• Dena DeRose, I Can See Clearly Now (Matt Wilson on drums)

Lastly, I think anything with Jason Marsalis, Bill Stewart, Matt Wilson, and especially Eric Harland on drums would be good. All four display great musicality in their playing.

Have fun!

Guess what the 3rd album was I heard that fateful day as a teen in the 70's Robert?.................. Art Blakey "Free for All". Oh my was that another eye opener....... the passion and pure expression contained in that music had me fully hooked.....

My point is you can start with any of them and it will lead you back to the root of the jazz tree once the spark is set into motion {mind and ear} and remember everybody processes what they're exposed to very differently, no one size fits all, so in my case hearing Elvin first had no ill effect on what was to follow from a early jazz educational standpoint. Being thrown into the fire is sometimes not a bad way to start, it sure wasn't for me :}

[RobertM]

Originally Posted by Steamer

You get somebody to expose them to the recordings Ken. That's how it worked for me hearing Elvin's" Live at the Lighthouse" when I was 17 {maybe 18 i'm getting old} and let them take it for there if it's keens one's interest. I met sombody who had a mutual friend who was a older professional jazz musician, a alto sax player and band teacher who saw I had some talent but needed to focus my energy to get a "concept" for jazz and jazz drummers happening. He ambushed me with several recordings in a good way starting with Elvin and Tony that left a deep and permanent imprint on my musical makeup from that point on.

I guess these days one thing that could help to do it is getting early exposure to the current tremendous archive of DVD jazz footage at one's disposal available of the old crew right up to the present leading lights.

Stan makes a great point. The initial recordings I listened to--Art Blakey, Philly Joe Jones, Max Roach, Buddy Rich, etc.--were recommended to me by a great neighbor I had back when I was in high school (I should have made note of this in my previous post). My neighbor was from Haiti and had a totally different intellectual perspective than most of my other neighbors in our little suburbia. Once he found out that my music and drumming interests were veering to jazz, he gave me cassette tapes (yes, no CDs existed yet!) of Miles Davis, Blakey, the whole lot. He also gave me copies of stuff like Ornette Coleman, Tower of Power/David Garibaldi, and what to my young high-school mind was the bizarre fusion stuff of Chick Corea (Return to Forever) and McLaughlin, Billy Cobham & co. (Mahavishnu Orchestra).

It was also thanks to him that I got to see my first real jazz show, which just happened to be the Max Roach Quartet. An amazing show for a high schooler to see....Branford Marsalis came on next, with Jeff Tain Waits on drums.

I owe my neighbor a great amount of gratitude for not only being an intellectual presence in a rather dull neighborhood, but for also exposing me to great jazz recordings.

[RobertM]

Originally Posted by Steamer

Guess what the 3rd album was I heard that fateful day as a teen in the 70's Robert?.................. Art Blakey "Free for All". Oh my was that another eye opener....... the passion and pure expression contained in that music had me fully hooked.....

My point is you can start with any of them and it will lead you back to the root of the jazz tree once the spark is set into motion {mind and ear} and remember everybody processes what they're exposed to very differently, no one size fits all, so in my case hearing Elvin first had no ill effect on what was to follow from a early jazz educational standpoint. Being thrown into the fire is sometimes not a bad way to start, it sure wasn't for me :}

Stan, I know what you mean, and I agree. By the way, I know what you mean by saying that you were "fully hooked." The first time I heard Art Blakey on "Kozo's Waltz" just about blew my mind--the tremendous fun and power of his playing and soloing combined with his amazing metronome-like tempo (his hi-hat is like a clock on 2 and 3 throughout that solo) was so thrilling to hear.

It is great to have friends or acquaintances who can steer you in the right direction at crucial moments in life.

By the way, I didn't mean to dissuade anyone from starting with Elvin; I've just heard so much talk about Elvin being the Ur drummer over the years, and when I read that Kenny Washington piece, I thought it was interesting. I was thrown in the deep end of the pool when I first got into jazz. That neighbor friend of mine gave me stuff like Kind of Blue and A Night in Tunisia and Wayne Shorter along with Return to Forever's Romantic Warrior, etc. That was a heavy load to deal with! But I still remember feeling happy and excited when listening to Blakey, Bird & Diz, and Stitt's Now--some music leaves an indelible print on you.

[Deltadrummer]

Originally Posted by Steamer

You get somebody to expose them to the recordings Ken.

I guess these days one thing that could help to do it is getting early exposure to the current tremendous archive of DVD jazz footage at one's disposal available of the old crew right up to the present leading lights.

I never had that, sniff sniff. :)

To be introduced to jazz, you just need to have a wandering ear. But like you say, if your really want to know what's happening and why, you do need someone to tell you "what is hip and why it is hip. " If you have that in your life, esp as a youngster, you should cherish it.

I jsut watched The Sound of Miles Davis on PBS with Gill Evans, Jimmy Cobb and John Coltrane, and a few weeks ago they had the Count Basie with Ella and of course, Papa Jo. That stuff is like a treasure chest, just being able to see Papa Jo perform. I love Ella, but you say that in a drum forum and certains will look down on it.

[aydee]

Originally Posted by RobertM

Here is some advice I got from Terri Lyne Carrington (a great, kind jazz drummer)

You know, Terri, Robert? Great great lady, isn't she?

[Steamer]

Originally Posted by Deltadrummer

I never had that, sniff sniff. :)

To be introduced to jazz, you just need to have a wandering ear. But like you say, if your really want to know what's happening and why, you do need someone to tell you "what is hip and why it is hip. " If you have that in your life, esp as a youngster, you should cherish it.

I jsut watched The Sound of Miles Davis on PBS with Gill Evans, Jimmy Cobb and John Coltrane, and a few weeks ago they had the Count Basie with Ella and of course, Papa Jo. That stuff is like a treasure chest, just being able to see Papa Jo perform. I love Ella, but you say that in a drum forum and certains will look down on it.

Well you're a teacher Ken so just do your humble bit to do the same now for others. That's all you can do and it DOES make difference believe me as we've covered.

These days you have WAY MORE stuff at one's disposal regarding jazz as you just noted with that footage. Rare clips of jazz on TV was all we had back in the "old days". It was mostly endlessly listening to recordings that ignited jazz appreciation.

[slingerland755]

As far as getting your independence together in regard to jazz...Chapin's book has been very helpful for me. You start out slow and move at your own pace. Learn the basic patterns and get that left hand moving (or right if your a lefty).

[RobertM]

Originally Posted by aydee

You know, Terri, Robert? Great great lady, isn't she?

She is awesome. An incredible player, with tons of jazz history and knowledge, and yet she is so approachable, humble, and friendly. She is a great example of a high-profile jazz player who is willing to take time out of her very busy schedule and help anyone learn about the music. I get the strong impression that no matter the venue or audience, she is willing to share jazz.

[jazzgregg]

I think Elvin is only misunderstood by those who don't really know Elvin. He's much like Jazz drumming, if you listen to him from the beginning, it's not so hard to comprehend how he ended up where he did. People who fall into the area that Washington is describing are just people who say they like Elvin because they heard they were supposed to from somewhere, or someone.

Without getting into the 'I heard this and that when I was ___ old', I think the essential discussions here are now being divided into the Evolution and reverse engineering theories of Jazz Drumming. Either you start at (or near) the beginning and work up to Elvin, Roy and so on so that they make more sense when you get there, or, you start anywhere (say, Elvin), then try and figure out why and how he's doing his thing without any previous knowledge, precedent or context. Both can work, I suppose but for the sake of this discussion, I assumed most were not referring to Elvin's earliest, formative stuff, at least it never seems that way in these discussions.

And Stan, yeah I'm moving over, send me an email, thanks.

G

[Steamer]

Originally Posted by jazzgregg

I think Elvin is only misunderstood by those who don't really know Elvin. He's much like Jazz drumming, if you listen to him from the beginning, it's not so hard to comprehend how he ended up where he did. People who fall into the area that Washington is describing are just people who say they like Elvin because they heard they were supposed to from somewhere, or someone.

Without getting into the 'I heard this and that when I was ___ old', I think the essential discussions here are now being divided into the Evolution and reverse engineering theories of Jazz Drumming. Either you start at (or near) the beginning and work up to Elvin, Roy and so on so that they make more sense when you get there, or, you start anywhere (say, Elvin), then try and figure out why and how he's doing his thing without any previous knowledge, precedent or context. Both can work, I suppose but for the sake of this discussion, I assumed most were not referring to Elvin's earliest, formative stuff, at least it never seems that way in these discussions.

And Stan, yeah, I'm moving over, send me an email, thanks.

G

After "Live at the Lighthouse" all the early Coltrane Quartet period recordings G were my first exposure to all things Elvin. The later stuff.... well came later well building up my vinyl record collection of Trane.


I'll get my main contact in London Len's current email address and pass it your way. He a good buddy of Kenny too who's had his share of "challenges" in his senior years to deal with.

Good luck G and all the best on that and keep us updated. Exciting news!