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  #1  
Old 06-05-2016, 08:10 PM
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Default My tastes are changing again

I think my days of the 10" tom have run it course. The reason? My 10" toms just don't have the ooomph I'm looking for. Volume-wise and sustain-wise I'm looking for more. After hearing a 12" tom tuned to the range where I tune my 10" tom to...I'm preferring the 12" where a 10 would go.

I could even see me being OK with 2 - 12's on my bass drum.
But a 12/13 for racks...I think I'm going in that direction. I have an extra 13" Ludwig tom in WMP that I am going to start using with my white onyx (wmp) PDP gig set/kit

I haven't done it yet but this coming Wednesday I'm going to make the change. OMG I will be playing a mismatched set out for the very first time. They are the same color, just different lugs and badge, so most people won't even notice.

Tastes are a funny thing. They change without warning. I'm thinking of having Andy make me a 13" segmented walnut tom for my favorite black girl :)
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  #2  
Old 06-05-2016, 08:50 PM
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Default Re: My tastes are changing again

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I'm thinking of having Andy make me a 13" segmented walnut tom for my favorite black girl :)
Nah, just give Yolanda away.

Would you like my address?
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  #3  
Old 06-05-2016, 09:32 PM
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Default Re: My tastes are changing again

There's a reason 12 and 13 were standard on kits, Larry.
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Old 06-05-2016, 09:56 PM
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Default Re: My tastes are changing again

Ahhh I knew you'd come around Larry. 10's have their place, but to me mostly make a 'doink' or 'dschoo' sounds, not the 'boomph' I look for in tom sounds. 13 is my fave size up there.
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  #5  
Old 06-05-2016, 10:17 PM
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Default Re: My tastes are changing again

I've taken the 10 off my kit too. No new size added, just a one up one down.
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  #6  
Old 06-05-2016, 10:38 PM
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Default Re: My tastes are changing again

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Originally Posted by mmulcahy1 View Post
Nah, just give Yolanda away.

Would you like my address?
Mitch you'd be first in line. To be on the receiving end. Of my laughter :P

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Originally Posted by Matt Bo Eder View Post
There's a reason 12 and 13 were standard on kits, Larry.
Right? They knew what they were doing. I like one tom with a high note. They just sound better coming from a 12" tom. I have to replicate the Motown Benny Benjamin 12" tom note as the first note of the 6 stroke roll pickup on many of those great songs. that's what I'm hearing. I think Benny invented that pickup.

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Ahhh I knew you'd come around Larry. 10's have their place, but to me mostly make a 'doink' or 'dschoo' sounds, not the 'boomph' I look for in tom sounds. 13 is my fave size up there.
Doink and dshoo not boomph! I can't believe you used those words! That's exactly how I would describe them too! Not!

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I've taken the 10 off my kit too. No new size added, just a one up one down.
No one cares what you think.

OMG I'm kidding lighten up!

Sorry Dog I couldn't resist, are we OK?
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  #7  
Old 06-06-2016, 12:48 AM
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Default Re: My tastes are changing again

What GURU size toms do you own?

Do the Guru toms have the same general sonic properties as your other drums, for example does a Guru 10" tom have no "oomph"?


.
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  #8  
Old 06-06-2016, 02:54 AM
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Default Re: My tastes are changing again

I'm with you Uncle!

When I started playing I loved the high note of a 10" tom. So much so that I was delighted to find a matching tom for the Exports that I had. And then ended up reverting to the 12-13-16 tom set up.

The Mapex M Birch kit that I currently have came as a 6 piece, but I tend to ignore the 10" tom, and will leave it at home when I play out.
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  #9  
Old 06-06-2016, 03:23 AM
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Default Re: My tastes are changing again

Right now I'm playing 8,10,12 on top and 14 and 16 on the floor on my home (Guru) kit.

I love it. I tune the small drums for max sustain and the floors for a little less.

I hear what you're saying but I have played 4-5 piece kits on almost every gig except for bigger tours and I want the whole tonal range now when I have the choice. Since there's no way I'm bringing all that gear on a gig. that means the home kit

I almost always play mic'ed, even at home so that changes things a bit.

Frankly, as far as drum sizes, it's all a BS guessing game. Why must toms go up
in inch intervals? It's just what the manufacturers decided to make due to their tooling. Maybe the toms should be 1.1278 inches different in size or just a percentage increase but we have inches and that's the way it is.

The "reason" why they made 12" and 13" toms had nothing to do with some enlightened concept of tonality on the drumset. It was what the company could easily get tooling for and so they went with it.
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  #10  
Old 06-06-2016, 04:03 AM
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Default Re: My tastes are changing again

Larry, you are becoming the Bo of the East.
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  #11  
Old 06-06-2016, 04:20 AM
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Default Re: My tastes are changing again

I have long been a fan of 12 and 13 inch high toms with 14 and 16 floor toms.
Such a nice combination.
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  #12  
Old 06-06-2016, 04:49 AM
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Default Re: My tastes are changing again

"I think my days of the 10" tom have run it course." Say it ain't so? Well the Walnut one is still "purdie" to look at-and ever once in awhile don'tcha need that high note? Seems a sin to not play it-and it matches the rest of Yolanda so well (wouldn't it be like cutting off an arm?). Well you should at least find it a good home for wayward 10 in toms. Did I mention I like 10 in toms=even wayward ones ;)
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  #13  
Old 06-06-2016, 05:24 AM
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Default Re: My tastes are changing again

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post

No one cares what you think.

OMG I'm kidding lighten up!

Sorry Dog I couldn't resist, are we OK?
LOL! I just spit out some of my beer! We are definitely OK.
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  #14  
Old 06-06-2016, 05:32 AM
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Default Re: My tastes are changing again

Not me Lar, my 10" drums do something my other drums can't do. I don't always use them (I have a couple of decently stocked "shell banks" of Yamaha MCANs and Live Customs and take out what I need depending on the gig) but I find they occupy a sonic space in the mix with a richer tone than a 12" tuned up to the same pitch. And I'm not able to get the intervals I prefer between 12s and 13s while still having each drum sounding their best.

But enjoy the adventure brother, "variety's the spice of life," and all of that. Also, I'm going to call all the venues you play and tell them to spread the word that the drummer has a mismatched drum. ;-)
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  #15  
Old 06-06-2016, 08:23 AM
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Default Re: My tastes are changing again

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Originally Posted by spleeeeen View Post
Not me Lar, my 10" drums do something my other drums can't do. I don't always use them (I have a couple of decently stocked "shell banks" of Yamaha MCANs and Live Customs and take out what I need depending on the gig) but I find they occupy a sonic space in the mix with a richer tone than a 12" tuned up to the same pitch. And I'm not able to get the intervals I prefer between 12s and 13s while still having each drum sounding their best.

But enjoy the adventure brother, "variety's the spice of life," and all of that. Also, I'm going to call all the venues you play and tell them to spread the word that the drummer has a mismatched drum. ;-)
I'm with you, Spleen. I like 10s. A 12" tightened up simply isn't the same. I think that's what Larry likes about it, but it isn't for me. :)
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  #16  
Old 06-06-2016, 09:03 AM
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Default Re: My tastes are changing again

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A 12" tightened up simply isn't the same.
Correct, it's a lot better.
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  #17  
Old 06-06-2016, 09:29 AM
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Default Re: My tastes are changing again

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does a Guru 10" tom have no "oomph"?


.
3 of them. No EQ - use good headphones.

https://youtu.be/JgFt6QFzfEM?t=1m6s

You decide :)
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  #18  
Old 06-06-2016, 10:14 AM
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Default Re: My tastes are changing again

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
3 of them. No EQ - use good headphones.

https://youtu.be/JgFt6QFzfEM?t=1m6s

You decide :)
Yeah that 10 x 11.5 has plenty of oomph!. All great sounding 10" toms. But to my ear only the 10 x 11.5 had oomph.

I was wondering if Larry has any 10" Gurus that he thought were too wimpy for his taste.
I was gonna' recommend different heads and lower tuning on the Guru 10's he might have.


.
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  #19  
Old 06-06-2016, 10:21 AM
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Default Re: My tastes are changing again

Yeah first they drop, then they grow hair ... oh, tAstes. Oops.
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  #20  
Old 06-06-2016, 10:26 AM
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Default Re: My tastes are changing again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood Jim View Post
Yeah that 10 x 11.5 has plenty of oomph!. All great sounding 10" toms. But to my ear only the 10 x 11.5 had oomph.

I was wondering if Larry has any 10" Gurus that he thought were too wimpy for his taste.
I was gonna' recommend different heads and lower tuning on the Guru 10's he might have.


.
The middle 10" has plenty of body too, but tuning is higher to sit in with the range of the three toms. Larry's 10" Guru toms have a ton of "oomph", especially compared to many 10" toms. This is more about Larry's tastes than it is about the performance of one 10" tom vs. another.

I've done plenty of gigs with one 10" tom as the only mounted tom, & they deliver just fine (according to my taste), even unmic'd in a full sounding rock setting.

Try this - https://youtu.be/2kk-gtaNJu0?t=40s
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  #21  
Old 06-06-2016, 10:59 AM
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Default Re: My tastes are changing again

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Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD View Post
Larry, you are becoming the Bo of the East.
Hey now! He's Larry of the East!
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  #22  
Old 06-06-2016, 03:15 PM
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Default Re: My tastes are changing again

I use a 12" but I also have a 13" which is 10" deep. I would get a 14x10 but the 13" works well enough. Both are maple, and I switch them out (1 up 1 down). I am poking around for a 18" FT BTW. If I was to have a rack-o-toms I think I would get the Hal Blaine concert roll-er-rack, with my kit as the core.
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  #23  
Old 06-06-2016, 05:38 PM
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Default Re: My tastes are changing again

You guys crack me up. I'll still play the 10's. I probably won't buy anymore new 10" toms though, that's my plan for the next drumsetkit. Bo of the East. Larry of the East. Not crazy about either. Bo is in a class by himself. He' a special enigma and he has that particular area all sewn up.

It's mainly about the sustain. Lately I am noticing that the 10's die quicker than the bigger drums, and it's ruining my high. I still like the note they make, but again it's the sustain. I need more internal space. Even with the tympanic edge on the Guru's, which does make a positive noticeable difference. I just need to experiment with a bigger smaller rack.

SunDog thanks, you made my day. Sorry I haven't picked on you sooner, I'll see to it that I insult you on a more regular basis lol.

I never warmed up to the 8" tom Jeff. Kind of a small target too. If I used mics I probably wouldn't be going through this. I never thought about or wanted a 13, I always felt that a 1" diameter difference wasn't enough. I didn't base that on experience, it was just a prejudice.

Usually I don't bore the forum with a whole thread about my personal tastes but I haven't done a thread in such a long time.

First they drop and then grow hair lol. It's great to hear grown adults sounding like teenagers, we're all very proud of you ATCNAT.
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  #24  
Old 06-06-2016, 06:27 PM
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Default Re: My tastes are changing again

I've never met a 10" tom I liked.
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  #25  
Old 06-06-2016, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by 8Mile View Post
I've never met a 10" tom I liked.
Must be a Larry thing ;)

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Even with the tympanic edge on the Guru's, which does make a positive noticeable difference. I just need to experiment with a bigger smaller rack.
I could have made you one of these ;) https://youtu.be/IUQPDMVoUIg?t=3m21s
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  #26  
Old 06-06-2016, 06:43 PM
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I've never met a 10" tom I liked.
Me neither. Well, except maybe Stewart Copeland's, but he had it cranked up way high and almost nobody tunes that way - like, BONK! Kinda cool, but not practical for most.

I like the 13" a lot and normally use one as my only rack tom, but recently set up a kit at home using drums I already have. It's just a 4pc 22/12/16 and even that 12 feels a little small, but I still like it. I wouldn't go smaller than that, though.

Part of it is that I grew up with 12/13/16 setups like a lot of people, so that's how I expect to hear drums in my head. But even without that background, I still think I'd break toward larger sizes since I just really like them tuned tighter for a harder, more percussive, and fuller sound than any smaller size detuned into the same tonal range, which just leaves me wanting and scratching my head wondering why they're so popular.

On the other hand, when we share bills with other bands whose drummers are often running fusion sizes, I get a lot of comments on how clear and cutting my drums are. It's kind of funny because I'm not doing anything out of the ordinary other than tuning well above JAW, so it's not any kind of voodoo going on. Haha
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  #27  
Old 06-06-2016, 07:04 PM
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Default Re: My tastes are changing again

Seems like all my favorites play the 12/13 up. After tweaking my 10/12 like crazy trying to get a similar tone Ive given up. Im still a newb so Im not upgrading any time soon, but when I do I dont see myself keeping a 10 on my kit.

Although it seems like most manufacturers are dropping the 13" from their kits.

Last edited by savage8190; 06-06-2016 at 07:29 PM.
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  #28  
Old 06-06-2016, 07:07 PM
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Default Re: My tastes are changing again

The 10 in does have a shorter sustain, but I like that. I was surprised at the tuning range of a 10 in when I first tried one-I was resistant to them but now I like them. A beautiful 10 in walnut tom would be a great start "for me" to build a new kit if "someone" were feeling philanthropic towards the lesser drummers in the world and spread the Guru Yolanda love. LOL. Even if you don't use it you still have to hang it man. it's the rules-Yolanda rules. It is written:
"Therefore what Andy has joined together, let no one separate."
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  #29  
Old 06-06-2016, 07:24 PM
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Default Re: My tastes are changing again

I'd use a 10" for reggae songs. Sometimes, I could use a 10" tom. I've always thought a 10, 13, 16, 20 would be perfect for a tom set. That would be ideal for me.
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  #30  
Old 06-06-2016, 07:31 PM
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I'd use a 10" for reggae songs. Sometimes, I could use a 10" tom. I've always thought a 10, 13, 16, 20 would be perfect for a tom set. That would be ideal for me.
I like the 10/13/16 setup Garibaldi's had so much success with (though I'd offset them so the 13" was the go-to from the snare), but a 20" floor? I haven't seen one of those in a very long time. I remember seeing an old Slingerland 20" with 4 legs - sucker was HUGE! But really, 18s are hard enough to separate from the kick as it is, so I don't know what benefit a 20" could possibly have other than full-on bragging rights (which might be reason enough!).
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  #31  
Old 06-06-2016, 07:40 PM
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Default Re: My tastes are changing again

It's not just about tones and volume for me - you can wrap an 8 and a 10 around your snare where they're very easy to hit and get your cymbals in nice and close. Maybe I should push myself to try bigger racks. Too bad I don't have any 13 rack toms.
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  #32  
Old 06-06-2016, 08:05 PM
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Default Re: My tastes are changing again

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
It's mainly about the sustain. Lately I am noticing that the 10's die quicker than the bigger drums, and it's ruining my high. I still like the note they make, but again it's the sustain. I need more internal space. Even with the tympanic edge on the Guru's, which does make a positive noticeable difference. I just need to experiment with a bigger smaller rack.
In the mix, sustain goes right out the window. It's the note that counts at that point.
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  #33  
Old 06-06-2016, 08:08 PM
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Default Re: My tastes are changing again

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
The middle 10" has plenty of body too, but tuning is higher to sit in with the range of the three toms. Larry's 10" Guru toms have a ton of "oomph", especially compared to many 10" toms. This is more about Larry's tastes than it is about the performance of one 10" tom vs. another.

I've done plenty of gigs with one 10" tom as the only mounted tom, & they deliver just fine (according to my taste), even unmic'd in a full sounding rock setting.

Try this - https://youtu.be/2kk-gtaNJu0?t=40s

Wow if that is a 10", that has enough low end tone for me!
Apparently Larry is just on one of his "not enough sustain" rants again.

To be honest when I play loud rock and blues I don't use 10 inch toms.
It's 12", 13" rack and 16" floor toms for me.
But for softer jazz and such, I would use a 10" tom.


.
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Old 06-06-2016, 08:20 PM
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Default Re: My tastes are changing again

This thread just made me realize I have never owned a "standard" 12-13-16 kit. I've had larger kits that included those sizes (think Simon Phillips 10-12-13-14-16-18), but never a standard 5 piece.

I'm still tempted to add a 10" to my four-piece for that Garibaldi-type set-up.
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Old 06-06-2016, 08:24 PM
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I like the 10/13/16 setup Garibaldi's had so much success with (though I'd offset them so the 13" was the go-to from the snare), but a 20" floor? I haven't seen one of those in a very long time. I remember seeing an old Slingerland 20" with 4 legs - sucker was HUGE! But really, 18s are hard enough to separate from the kick as it is, so I don't know what benefit a 20" could possibly have other than full-on bragging rights (which might be reason enough!).
I would use it for those deep groove jungle beats. IDK, I just think a gong drum would be cool to have. Probably wouldn't gig with it unless I had a drum tech though (ha ha).
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Old 06-06-2016, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by savage8190 View Post
Seems like all my favorites play the 12/13 up. After tweaking my 10/12 like crazy trying to get a similar tone Ive given up. Im still a newb so Im not upgrading any time soon, but when I do I dont see myself keeping a 10 on my kit.

Although it seems like most manufacturers are dropping the 13" from their kits.
Perhaps dropping from the intermediate kits and such, but any semi to high end manufacture makes 13 toms. Pearl is even packaging their wood fiberglass kits with 13s, as well as their Decade Maple 4-piece kit.
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  #37  
Old 06-06-2016, 09:18 PM
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I would use it for those deep groove jungle beats. IDK, I just think a gong drum would be cool to have. Probably wouldn't gig with it unless I had a drum tech though (ha ha).
Oh, gong drum ... gotcha. haha. I actually had one of those made for my kit and set it to the left of my hihats for a little while before eventually giving up on it. It was pretty cool and I used it for a few shows and one recording session, but it wasn't so cool that I wanted to keep moving it around all the time, and the real estate became a huge issue in many places, not the least of which was our practice space - not that you'd have any trouble with that with your uber elegant and cavernous rock space!
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  #38  
Old 06-06-2016, 09:31 PM
Super Phil's Avatar
Super Phil Super Phil is offline
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Location: Salt Lake City
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Default Re: My tastes are changing again

Love my 10 inch tom. I might try to pick up a 13 and 14 at some point just to add flexibility (or Rush covers, lol) but for now the 10, 12, 16 combo is working great.
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  #39  
Old 06-06-2016, 09:35 PM
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Bruce M. Thomson Bruce M. Thomson is offline
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Default Re: My tastes are changing again

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8Mile View Post
I've never met a 10" tom I liked.
10" up-16 floor combo sounds good with a 22 bass" or in my case a 20'
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  #40  
Old 06-06-2016, 11:16 PM
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MoreBeer MoreBeer is offline
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Default Re: My tastes are changing again

I love the sound of my 10" as its nice and punchy. In fact, decided to add a 8" as more of an accent tom and really like that as well. Currently playing 8-10-12-13 up toms and 14-16 floors.
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