Why must it be so loud?

[GruntersDad]

You would think they would put a back on them so as not to be so obvious.

[SAINTDRUMS]

Originally Posted by ron s

You have hit on my major issue with my band. The bass player is consistently way too loud for the room. We have spoken to him about turning down, and he turns down at the pickup volume, so he can turn back up when he gets excited, or whatever. Then he says " I never touched my amp". I used to play guitar and bass, so it's obvious what he is doing.
Last weekend, we had quite a few patrons leave after we came on. My GF was there and she said the bass was drowning out both the guitar and drums.
The OP comment on the bass drum was accurate- a loud bass at roughly the same frequency can cancel out your bass drum sound.
This clown is using an SGR bass with active pickups for a classic rock bar band. He has an overdrive in his amp and the bass turned way up, with mids and treble below halfway. Can you say "crappy tone"?
He does have other good qualities- he sings backup and some lead, helps with load in and out, etc.

I don't want to find another band, because this one is steady work and I enjoy playing with the guitarist.
It is getting really taxing though, especially in smaller spaces, or when there isn't a big crowd. This guy has no common sense regarding appropriate volume for the situation. He thinks every job is a rock concert.

Man, you hit the nail on head with this one Ron! Welcome to my world, I play with The Senders, which you might know since you're from RI. Our bassist is hands-down the loudest I've ever had to play with. I literally have to play my kick drum using muscle memory because I can't hear it at all. I step on the pedal, watch the beater strike the head, and nothing.... I can't even hear the attack let alone any tone! Ghost notes? Forget it. We don't even put him through the front of house because he fills up the whole room without having to do this. He plays with an eight 10" cab and he also says the same thing - "but I never touch the volume". I can sympathize....

[ron s]

Originally Posted by SAINTDRUMS

Man, you hit the nail on head with this one Ron! Welcome to my world, I play with The Senders, which you might know since you're from RI. Our bassist is hands-down the loudest I've ever had to play with. I literally have to play my kick drum using muscle memory because I can't hear it at all. I step on the pedal, watch the beater strike the head, and nothing.... I can't even hear the attack let alone any tone! Ghost notes? Forget it. We don't even put him through the front of house because he fills up the whole room without having to do this. He plays with an eight 10" cab and he also says the same thing - "but I never touch the volume". I can sympathize....

Well it's nice to know I am not alone. You guys probably play bigger rooms than we do-we are mostly a bar band. I had heard you guys were pretty loud. The thing is a band should play to the room. Size, acoustics, how many people in the room, etc. My bass player turns up as the night goes on even if there are LESS people than when we started. He just has no sense about volume. When I complain he says I am not "rock n roll" enough?? Give me a break, we are a bar cover band in RI, not Judas Priest. I think I can rock out when it is needed, but I try to play to the songs.
I have to get out and catch you guys when we have a weekend off. I will bring my earplugs...lol...

[SmoothOperator]

Because there is nothing of interest in the music. If they turned it down people would tune it out like Muzak, come to think of it most Muzak is rock music rerecorded at normal levels.

[supermac]

For years, I played at one level - very loud.

Probably because I thought - wrongly - that's how drums should be played.

And it's because I played in loud, enthusiastic young rock bands where everybody else turned up to 11 and we basically competed with each other.

Over recent years I've listened to - and watched - brilliant players like Benny Greb, Antonio Sanchez and, especially, Steve Gadd use exquisite and very musical dynamics - and I try to emulate that.

I love playing softly now - when appropriate - but would never have dreamt of playing like that 25 years ago.

I think for most - not all - drummers, becoming more dynamic and musical is an age/experience thing

[Captain Bash]

You need to manage the volume situation but in a fair and constructive way.

Get the band to set their volume level to the acoustic volume of your kit, adding mics/triggers or any reinforcement just ramps up your kit volume which in turn will lead most guitarists to turn up even more.

The cycle will never end, unless you firmly suggest the guitarists set a sensible workable level. Rather than worrying about the drums alone - I would espouse setting a bass and drums level, then guitar level that allows the vocals to shine. It is the overall effect of the band that matters.

Classic set-ups are classic for a reason they work... This is why the 5B stick paired with Paiste 2002 or Zildjian A cymbals have been used since 70s for rock.

[mikel]

Having to mic drums up at rehearsal is just stupid. The whole idea of band practice is to make sure everyone is playing the right thing, at the right volume at the right time. How can you know that if its just a decibel fest?

Why are musicians using big stacks and 8 x 10s at a band practice anyway? Have they no concept of the term "Practice amp"?

Most bands use powerful PA systems to gig anyway, with everything going through that, so there is no need for the stage volume to be damaging to the ears.

[trynberg]

So grateful to be playing with a great bunch of guys. It helps that we're all in our 40s with no egos in the way. During rehearsal today, the lead guitarist and bassist actually asked more than once if they were too loud. Grateful.

[_Leviathan_]

Originally Posted by mikel

Having to mic drums up at rehearsal is just stupid. The whole idea of band practice is to make sure everyone is playing the right thing, at the right volume at the right time. How can you know that if its just a decibel fest?

Why are musicians using big stacks and 8 x 10s at a band practice anyway? Have they no concept of the term "Practice amp"?

Most bands use powerful PA systems to gig anyway, with everything going through that, so there is no need for the stage volume to be damaging to the ears.

+1. I think some musicians just don't like the feeling of being exposed behind the wall of noise they are used to and are used to cranking everything up.

[Woolwich]

I'm in the process of getting a second band up and running and we used a rehearsal studio for a few weeks that was new to some of us and conveniently situated. After 3 rehearsals we've moved elsewhere because every week there was someone either below us or next to us rehearsing at such stupidly high volumes that it made it difficult for us to hear what we were doing. And we are not an acoustic trio, we're belting out Rock at a fair volume ourselves. One week our singer was all over the place vocally, until the band next door finished and suddenly he was spot on. The volume from the other band had actually affected what he could hear to the extent that it was like performing live without a monitor. Our last time there the floor and walls were literally shaking, what damage these other bands are doing to their hearing is anyone's guess.

[Juniper]

For 10 years I played in a band that only knew the top volume setting, so much so I had to eventually change to using the sticks butt end so the drums would at least come through (reason why I play Butt End)

I eventually left and played with quieter bands over the last 6 years or so and enjoyed playing with dynamics a lot.

A few weeks ago I went back to the band in question help them out for a gig and could not believe the levels they were using in the first rehearsal. It was unreal how loud it was in there. Even using hearing protectors it was too much, I’d forgotten how much they crank the volume.

That was just in the rehersal rooms also, one word summery of how the band sounded at the gig itself from the sound guy?

“Loud”

[larryace]

To boil it down to it's constituent parts, I think it all has to do with playing for oneself as opposed to playing for the audiences enjoyment. Live music works best when the sound is balanced in the room.

It's a maturity thing. People who play too loud haven't matured musically yet, it's just that simple. As a musician...it's not supposed to be about yourself, it's supposed to be ALL about the people watching you.

Transposing that to other areas, how would you like a chef that tries to beat your senses into submission with hot chile peppers overpowering everything?

Or a bus driver that thinks it's cool to take turns on 2 wheels?

Or an insurance salesman that has to do a little dance as you sign the papers. Grow up! Do your job and maybe I don't know, look beyond yourself..

People who play instruments live....most start out thinking that it's all about them. They MUST get past that stage to grow as a musician.

WHY IS THIS THREAD STILL ON MY LAWN????

[Woolwich]

Originally Posted by larryace

To boil it down to it's constituent parts, I think it all has to do with playing for oneself as opposed to playing for the audiences enjoyment. Live music works best when the sound is balanced in the room.

It's a maturity thing. People who play too loud haven't matured musically yet, it's just that simple. As a musician...it's not supposed to be about yourself, it's supposed to be ALL about the people watching you.

Transposing that to other areas, how would you like a chef that tries to beat your senses into submission with hot chile peppers overpowering everything?

Or a bus driver that thinks it's cool to take turns on 2 wheels?

Or an insurance salesman that has to do a little dance as you sign the papers. Grow up! Do your job and maybe I don't know, look beyond yourself..

People who play instruments live....most start out thinking that it's all about them. They MUST get past that stage to grow as a musician.

WHY IS THIS THREAD STILL ON MY LAWN????

A brilliant point, well made.
I've been in bands where people have missed cues or generally messed up with schoolboy errors and afterwards used the excuse that they were so carried away with the music that they forgot, as if them getting carried away makes it a good thing! Putting my psychiatrists hat on here, perhaps the prevalence of musicians who play the pub circuits and criticise people for wanting to be paid use this as a defence mechanism. After all, if they're doing it for nothing or for a mere pittance then no one really has a "right" to criticise. Or perhaps I'm reading too much into things :-)
Whatever, even though I might only be picking up £40 for a night spent gigging I always endeavour to treat it as me being ther for the audience and not the other way around.

[145drummie]

A lot of guitarists simply do not own the proper equipment for the room.

In most instances, a 40 watt amp is more than enough. If they only own one amp and it is 100 watts or more, they will need to turn it up to excessive levels in order to get their preferred "tone". Newsflash, rehearsal studios, indoor bar gigs and small outdoor venues do not require a 4 x 10 Marshall stack. Tell your guitarist to look into buying a smaller amp.

The quieter you can play, the more you can get paid. You won't run off the customers and piss off the staff, so you will get invited back. The ability to play at a lower volume makes your act more attractive to different types of venues, not just loud, stinky, smokey bars.

[Captain Bash]

Originally Posted by larryace

To boil it down to it's constituent parts, I think it all has to do with playing for oneself as opposed to playing for the audiences enjoyment. Live music works best when the sound is balanced in the room.

It's a maturity thing. People who play too loud haven't matured musically yet, it's just that simple. As a musician...it's not supposed to be about yourself, it's supposed to be ALL about the people watching??

Hang on Larry, I agree live music works best when balanced in room, but.....it's NOT always about the audience because some bands are based on "Look at me" or "the new" not some shared band-audience culture or pleasant night out music. This band vs or with audience depends on a whole host of factors including hoe evolved or not a music scene or movement is.

Now don't get me wrong the best gigs are easy like a brilliant party. But pioneers of most musical styles are often met with derision not open arms, but as time passes the minority become the majority.

[larryace]

Originally Posted by Captain Bash

.....it's NOT always about the audience because some bands are based on "Look at me" or "the new" not some shared band-audience culture or pleasant night out music. This band vs or with audience depends on a whole host of factors including hoe evolved or not a music scene or movement is.

Fair enough. There is no always in music.