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  #1  
Old 12-26-2014, 09:42 AM
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DangerousDave DangerousDave is offline
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Default Just a few thoughts...

I was just reading a thread that Joey Kramer moved to Pearl.

Feel free to join in...

Why do we get so excited when a drummer changes a product company? Is it the same way with the guitarists, keyboard players, trumpet players?

Are we so lost in the sea of marketing that we live through the players we admire and some of us even call our idols? If we use products they use are we instantly gonna be like them if not better? I highly doubt you're gonna manage to keep time on ie. STAR kit if you can't do it on some crappy set (or anything really).

Do we really need some kind of approval for using our gear? (If person x uses it then it must be great.)

And what's the deal with 'the definitives' and 'the absolutes'? Stuff like 'I always use this and that' and 'I never do this', 'You have to do it like this'...

Now another thing came to my mind. Must be the act of ego. Why are most of the people always saying 'My Tama Starclassic Maple Absolute Reference 145.4 plies with 67 back-cut...'.
When someone asks for an advice ie. on plumbing, do you go 'On my 119m2 double layered brick wall house surrounded with a nickeled wired fence on three sides I use standard green plastic tubes'?

Not trying to offend anyone, just writing some thoughts that came to my mind.
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Old 12-26-2014, 10:24 AM
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Default Re: Just a few thoughts...

If I lay my reality over yours then I will understand you better because you sound more like me
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  #3  
Old 12-26-2014, 11:02 AM
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Default Re: Just a few thoughts...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DangerousDave View Post
Why do we get so excited when a drummer changes a product company? Is it the same way with the guitarists, keyboard players, trumpet players?
As someone who was a guitar player for 30 years before taking up drums, I find this topic fascinating.

The association between brand and musician seems to be different for each instrument.

Even people who don't play can sometimes tell you what guitar their favorite guitar player uses. Pick a name and there's usually a brand association: Hendrix/Fender, Page/Gibson, Petty/Rickenbacker.

Nobody but drummers knows what brand of drums a given drummer plays, with the exception of course being Ringo, because of that big logo on his bass drum on TV and in the movies.

Even though I play keyboards, I only know that Elton John plays a Yamaha grand because he did a TV special a few years ago from the NAMM Show.

What brand of piano does Billy Joel or Ben Folds (used to be Baldwin) or Tori Amos play? What synths did New Order take on the road last time?

I saw Air live in Oakland and I think they had an old Korg modular, but they also had a Rhodes and a bunch of other keys.

Funny, but it's easier to make the associations with keyboard players from 40 or 50 years ago: Ray Manzarek/Vox, Ray Charles/Wurlitzer, Donald Fagen/Rhodes, Paul Revere/Vox.

Guitar players often have one good ol' trusty axe that was the first "good" one they ever owned, and they play it for decades until it wears out, then if they are famous enough, they get the company who made it to make them a copy.

With drummers, it's much more likely that the big names will be touring with brand new kits. The vintage is less coveted in the drum world (not true for me; none of my drums was made in this century).

Not sure why any of this is, but it's interesting.
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Old 12-26-2014, 11:34 AM
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Default Re: Just a few thoughts...

The "association with success" affect (in all it's forms) is super well documented as being a powerful marketing tool. Even those who think they're not affected by it, usually are to some extent.

As for over descriptive blurb, that's mostly a product of manufacturer's constant scramble for differentiation in a sea of product that's increasingly homogenised by chasing the lowest possible production cost/method.
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Old 12-26-2014, 02:33 PM
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Default Re: Just a few thoughts...

Quote:
Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
The "association with success" affect (in all it's forms) is super well documented as being a powerful marketing tool. Even those who think they're not affected by it, usually are to some extent.

As for over descriptive blurb, that's mostly a product of manufacturer's constant scramble for differentiation in a sea of product that's increasingly homogenised by chasing the lowest possible production cost/method.
That's an interesting point and I agree with you a 100%. We all have different understanding of what success is.

As for over descriptive blurb, although I agree with what you said, I meant what drummers are usually saying. I gotta be honest, when I joined the forums and started posting, I did the same thing because I accepted that form of expressing which I found to be very common on forums. Recently I started thinking about all of this. For example, someone asks 'What do you think of my sparkle finish?'. A pretty much standard answer would be 'My Reference looks great in black' or 'My Starclassic Maple really shines with the glossy purple' or 'I just love the natural finish on my SQ2'. Why are we bragging so much? Do we feel we're so much unsuccessful as musicians and/or persons so we're trying to compensate that by getting equipment that someone else says it's 'the best', 'the definitive', 'the ultimate'...? Or perhaps the forums are 99% of people that never left the basement and their ability to play is questionable? I really don't know but I find it somewhat interesting and most of the time I restrain from getting into debates and conversations.
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Old 12-26-2014, 03:25 PM
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Default Re: Just a few thoughts...

Most of what you read on here, is because you read it on here. When I write about my drums I write about my Gretsch Renown. Away from here I talk about my drums and my work associates wouldn't no Renown from Recycled. Writing on here means that the people on here undersand what you are talking about. I see the same thing on gun forums and camera forums. Marketing also wants you to know what they are selling and that there are many options. You don't see ads for Cars, or Chevys, but Chevy Monte Carlo or Silverado. No one will go on tv and try to sell you The Car.
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Old 12-26-2014, 06:07 PM
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Default Re: Just a few thoughts...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DangerousDave View Post
Why are we bragging so much?
I think the examples you gave are context dependant. To reference the brand & model of drum in the context of an appropriate finish for that drum, I think is just fine, but to constantly push the brand & model of drum into a conversation where that fact is irrelevant, yes, that's mostly bragging.

Actually, brand & bragging rights are two of the biggest drum buying motivators, along with finish. Certainly way ahead of sound quality, although very few will admit it.
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Old 12-26-2014, 06:23 PM
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Default Re: Just a few thoughts...

Not everyone gets excited when famous drummers switch loyalties. It does not a thing for me, whatever. But when I saw this thread, I couldn't help looking at my GURU drums, and my 2 sets of VINTAGE LUDWIG drums, along with my new SOULTONE VINTAGE HI HAT CYMBALS, next to my new to me 380 WATT GALLIEN KRUEGER BASS AMP with the bitchin 4 - 10"" SPEAKER EXTENSION CABINET and really have no good explanation why people feel the need to brag. I find it offputting myself.

:)
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  #9  
Old 12-26-2014, 07:52 PM
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Default Re: Just a few thoughts...

Joey Kramer plays Pearl? Awesome. So do I ;)

He used to play Ludwig too. That's awesome too. I play those as well.

I'm writing this on my new Mac with a 27" monitor. As my Kanilea tenor ukulele gently weeps.

What were we talking about?
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  #10  
Old 12-26-2014, 07:58 PM
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Default Re: Just a few thoughts...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Bo Eder View Post

What were we talking about?
About how we're so humble here and don't bore everyone by trying to overcompensate for our manhood or drumming ability by listing all the desirable drum gear we own. How we're way past that with no ego.
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  #11  
Old 12-26-2014, 08:32 PM
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Midnite Zephyr Midnite Zephyr is offline
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Default Re: Just a few thoughts...

The title is a bit misleading, but this might explain a little about "why" we buy what we buy.

http://www.ted.com/talks/simon_sinek...inspire_action

(18 minutes)
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  #12  
Old 12-27-2014, 03:40 AM
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Default Re: Just a few thoughts...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DangerousDave View Post

Why do we get so excited when a drummer changes a product company? Is it the same way with the guitarists, keyboard players, trumpet players?

Are we so lost in the sea of marketing that we live through the players we admire and some of us even call our idols? If we use products they use are we instantly gonna be like them if not better?
Nope.

I think you miss the point.

See, there are two words in the term "Music Business".

Music and Business.

There are also two worlds in the term "drum business"

Drum, and, oh there it is again, business.

Business.

Endorsements are part of the BUSINESS of drums and music.

We're not discussing who endorses what because anyone of really swayed by such decisions, but because it's a discussion of the business side of playing drums.

And how side of that, there is sport side of it. Much like fans of a sport follow which athletes are one which team, some of us just like to follow which drummer is with which team/company. I'm not a fan of the Colts or the Broncos, but when Peyton Manning switched teams was still something I followed because I am interested in the NFL football as a whole.

I am not a fan of Aerosmith, and I don't play Pearl drums, but I followed the discussion because I am fan of drums and drumming as a whole.

I'm not a fan of I am not a fan of Aerosmith, but I read Joey Krammer's book because I am a fan of drummers and music autobiographies as a whole.

So, no, I'm not going to go buy a Pearl drum set because Joey Krammer moved. I really don't care which brand he's using per se. But I am going to follow stories about a name player switching endorsements because it is just interesting to drums, drumming and the music business all together.
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  #13  
Old 12-27-2014, 04:24 AM
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Default Re: Just a few thoughts...

It's honestly never bothered me when and if or even why a drummer chooses to change drum companies. I like the drummer for his playing, his style not for a company or product they endorse. To be honest I couldn't tell you what brand half my favorite drummers play.

This same theory follows through into sports as well for many people. They feel that they must use or wear the same products their favorite player uses.

I'm thankful I've never really been caught up in that marketing hype
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  #14  
Old 12-27-2014, 06:03 AM
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Default Re: Just a few thoughts...

Check out Jon Fishman. He plays a mix of drums and cymbals, and his playing reflects that mentality.
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Old 12-27-2014, 06:53 AM
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Default Re: Just a few thoughts...

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Sloth View Post
Check out Jon Fishman. He plays a mix of drums and cymbals, and his playing reflects that mentality.
Indeed. I think he's best known for his association with Electrolux. The plays a 1965 baby blue model from time to time. Strange gent.
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  #16  
Old 12-27-2014, 07:48 AM
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Default Re: Just a few thoughts...

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
About how we're so humble here and don't bore everyone by trying to overcompensate for our manhood or drumming ability by listing all the desirable drum gear we own. How we're way past that with no ego.
GET OUT!!!!!


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