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  #81  
Old 11-17-2014, 07:43 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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I couldnt agree more. It seems there is no shortage of brain dead morons. What was someone with such poor people skills, or indeed common decency, doing working front end for a company, whatever there size?
Same guy was at the LDS last week. I ran an experiment with my two Very Nice Young Men, to see if he'd ignore me again but not them, but he actually ignored all of us, haga!

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If you don't speak up, it becomes a lot worse than if you just threw the grenade back at them and let them squirm. If it worked out like I envisioned, you would have felt empowered, felt confident, and actually helped to correct the situation. In the future, I'd like to see you handle it head on, with class, wit, and total confidence as you rip them a new hole.
I entirely agree with you, Larry, but it's a bit more complicated than that. I didn't reply to a particular FB message that was sent to me because I took the view that by not responding, I made it clear that I wasn't interested and didn't give him the satisfaction of reacting. The low-level stuff is very, very difficult to pin down, but I know damn well that the guy is doing it - yet if I confronted him, he could very well claim that it's wishful thinking on my part.
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  #82  
Old 11-17-2014, 07:54 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

"IMO the things that were thrown your way Madge....could have been stopped dead in it's tracks by you slicing and dicing your attackers with your cutting wit, and your superior word chops."


Nothing like a brit taking out a rude person in the most eloquent way!

Sad this stuff exists Madge but you certainly are making your contribution to change minds!
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  #83  
Old 11-17-2014, 08:04 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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yet if I confronted him, he could very well claim that it's wishful thinking on my part.
That is where you don't let him get away with it because you know all the tricks. Just laughing at him would get the message across. What a great segue for you to say just how pathetic he sounds, and just keep hammering away at him. He/they will throw barbs, so you have to get good at throwing barbs right back. I'm guessing it's not in your makeup to be that way, but boy does it feel good when it works how you want it to. All at once you elevate yourself, call crap what it is, and hold him responsible for his actions. You need to let him know that you are onto him and any attempt to pin it back on you Madge should be called out and told like it is. Challenged. You're fed up letting low functioning people like him think it's OK to disrespect you, and you're not taking it anymore. Get mad, it's in your best interest. And yes, I was referring to face to face. The internet has too many disqualifiers to tackle something like this. Engaging on an internet forum is kind of stupid. Face to face isn't though. When it's called for. That takes real guts/nerve.

I feel it's easier to dress down a guy being a woman. There's way less chance of becoming physical. Any guy who attacks a woman just lost in a major way, whereas if a guy is dressing another guy down, broken noses are a real possibility. So cut him to the quick, slice and dice (with words) his low functioning ass, and enjoy yourself when you're doing it because it's great to prevail when you're right.
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  #84  
Old 11-17-2014, 08:19 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

Larry and everybody, I promise you here and now that if it ever, ever happens again I will NOT let it pass. At least I'll be ready for it - which I wasn't before, and as you have probably realised, it caught me completely off-guard.

I could avoid the low-level guy easily enough, but I'm not going to.

If I'm asking you to stand up for women, the least I can do is stand up for myself.

Feeling a whole lot better now. Thank you all very much.
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  #85  
Old 11-17-2014, 08:30 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

Madge I totally get that you were in a bit of a shock when you encountered this. I guess that's a good thing because it means you don't encounter it all the time. But yes, in the future, if you are able to express how it makes you feel....when you are feeling it....that's a great skill. Being able to use words to your advantage...like a Voltaire....is an awesome skill.

Not that I'm real good at it either, it usually takes me a while to realize I'm pissed off, and by then it's too late. My fuse can be too long for my own good sometimes. It depends on the situation. So I understand the deer in the headlights initial feeling. Methinks next time you will be a little more ready with a castrating response though.

Thanks for bringing this up.
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  #86  
Old 11-17-2014, 10:02 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

I think many men, especially when fueled by alcohol, fail to see a woman's side of the mating dance...and erroneously extrapolate their experiences to the woman's experiences.

Men are, on the average, not threatened by a woman's advances...as men are not usually PHYSICALLY threatened.

A woman is usually very aware of the potential for physical assault...and how it can start out seeming 'good natured'.

I don't think men, on average, are aware enough of the dangers a woman constantly navigates....and some men try to express themselves as they would like to be approached....not an excuse for ignorance...but an etiology that can lead to corrective conversations at a cultural level....that, maybe, a properly constructed song could enlighten???...time to get writing...

Last edited by Otto; 11-17-2014 at 10:22 PM.
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  #87  
Old 11-17-2014, 10:43 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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I think many men, especially when fueled by alcohol, fail to see a woman's side of the mating dance...and erroneously extrapolate their experiences to the woman's experiences.
Men, when fueled by alcohol, don't want to find a mate, they want to fornicate. They're not looking for a teammate to form a life-bond with and raise children.. They want to fuck. Which is cool and all, cause we all wanna fuck. Who doesn't? Heck, if I had to choose two words to describe myself during my formative years, they would be "Overwhelmingly Horny".

In my world, where women are men, I am able to make the distinction between the social awkwardness of horniness, and the instances where penis-bearing-men tell vagina-bearing-men that they cannot vote, drive, own property, or receive pay for their labor. I find it ridiculous that lawmakers would give consideration to laws that would govern only a portion of us men, and give others free reign.

We're starting to see progress though, and it's coming from an unexpected place. We're now seeing cases where trans 'MEN' are becoming pregnant. While the focus is currently that of healthcare and insurance, I think we're going to have an opportunity for both sides to really put their cards on the table. We'll either make some real progress and people will move closer to my way of thinking (women are men, true equality), or we'll start selling burkas at Walmart.

I really think that giving up on the distinction between men and women, in its entirety, is the endgame.
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  #88  
Old 11-17-2014, 10:49 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

Two points to add:

1. Ridicule chops most threats off at the knees.*

2. Using a phenotypical element to identify an individual is not racism. In the case of the Botswana shop robbery posited earlier, for a witness to say that the robber was white is not racist because the robber - an individual - was white. What would be racist would be if the witness told a friend that he'd seen a robbery take place and the friend said "Ahhh yes, I suppose it was a white guy that robbed the shop, was it?". The friend has made an assumption based on skin colour, that white people rob shops. Even if there has been a spate of white guy robberies, to draw the connection, that people rob stores because they are white is racist.

* Unless you're dealing with a psychopath, in which case you could find yourself dismembered in an acid bath. Prolly best to ask first, and if the person admits to being a psychopath, just lie back and think of England.
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  #89  
Old 11-17-2014, 10:57 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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Two points to add:

1. Ridicule chops most threats off at the knees.*
I think removing yourself from the situation is a better way to mitigate threats. Responding with ridicule could get you a nice beat down that could potentially be avoided. I mean, really, have we not heard the stories about poking bears with drumsticks?
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  #90  
Old 11-18-2014, 12:29 AM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

Dr, you're right.

The "threat" I was talking about - and I should have used a better word - was that of somebody keen to engage in a spot of horizontal tango.
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  #91  
Old 11-18-2014, 12:53 AM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

Wow, I learn so many great things from this forum !
Things like,
“Don’t poke bears with drumsticks”. (This might become a classic)
And,
Giving up on the distinction between men and women, in its entirety, is the endgame.”


And I thought things were going so well after Magenta’s last post.


.
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  #92  
Old 11-18-2014, 01:50 AM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

As others have said, I think it is because drumming has been predominantly male-dominated, and it will simply, unfortunately take time for the community to get with the times. I'm only posting to tell two stories of personal experience related to other more male-dominated fields:

1. I have a female friend who is a lawyer and she had long hair. Not blue nor purple, nor a mohawk, nor anything extraordinary, simply long, about shoulder-length, like many women for centuries have had. A judge told her to cut her hair short if she wanted to be taken seriously, a FREAKIN' JUDGE! The guys who are supposed to be looking after all of our rights.

2. I have another female friend who is an electrical engineer. She got a job with a smaller company (less than 100 employees). The day before she started, the company had a "clean up the office" day, because she was the first female to work there, and they had some seriously inappropriate things on their walls.
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  #93  
Old 11-18-2014, 02:30 AM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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2. Using a phenotypical element to identify an individual is not racism. In the case of the Botswana shop robbery posited earlier, for a witness to say that the robber was white is not racist because the robber - an individual - was white. What would be racist would be if the witness told a friend that he'd seen a robbery take place and the friend said "Ahhh yes, I suppose it was a white guy that robbed the shop, was it?". The friend has made an assumption based on skin colour, that white people rob shops. Even if there has been a spate of white guy robberies, to draw the connection, that people rob stores because they are white is racist.
Also, racism is the systematic use of privilege to disenfranchise those less privileged than oneself- 'reverse racism' against white people is not a meaningful phenomena in white-dominated societies like most of us live in.

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trans 'MEN'
No need for quotes there.

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Originally Posted by Otto View Post
I think many men, especially when fueled by alcohol, fail to see a woman's side of the mating dance...and erroneously extrapolate their experiences to the woman's experiences.

Men are, on the average, not threatened by a woman's advances...as men are not usually PHYSICALLY threatened.

A woman is usually very aware of the potential for physical assault...and how it can start out seeming 'good natured'.

I don't think men, on average, are aware enough of the dangers a woman constantly navigates....and some men try to express themselves as they would like to be approached....not an excuse for ignorance...but an etiology that can lead to corrective conversations at a cultural level....that, maybe, a properly constructed song could enlighten???...time to get writing...
Absolutely.


I'm not going to go through this entire thread and type a thesis-length response here, but thanks to Madge for bringing up this important point of conversation, and thanks to our wonderful forum members for being decent people about this stuff. :) I'd hate to see how this kind of stuff would go over at the Pearl forum or somesuch den of immature boys.
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  #94  
Old 11-18-2014, 02:39 AM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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We're starting to see progress though, and it's coming from an unexpected place. We're now seeing cases where trans 'MEN' are becoming pregnant. While the focus is currently that of healthcare and insurance, I think we're going to have an opportunity for both sides to really put their cards on the table. We'll either make some real progress and people will move closer to my way of thinking (women are men, true equality), or we'll start selling burkas at Walmart.
And how is this progressive? Trans-men getting pregnant/giving birth will somehow swing the pendulum to eventually have all other men begin to understand a women's perspective? The majority of humans are and remain different sexes. That's the biology of it all. The real social issue or problem in some male behaviours is ignorance.

Burkas are a construct of religious beliefs.

I obviously don't read between the lines well.
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  #95  
Old 11-18-2014, 03:21 AM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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And how is this progressive? Trans-men getting pregnant/giving birth will somehow swing the pendulum to eventually have all other men begin to understand a women's perspective? The majority of humans are and remain different sexes. That's the biology of it all. The real social issue or problem in some male behaviours is ignorance.

Burkas are a construct of religious beliefs.

I obviously don't read between the lines well.
Indeed.

There is no "women's perspective", because there are no women
There are no "different sexes", just an imaginary categorization so that one can try to control the other.
There is no ignorance, just the desire of people to control others.
Under the religions of Abraham, ALL cloths are a construct of religious belief, and so are women.
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  #96  
Old 11-18-2014, 03:26 AM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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And you've made me laff too, so thanks for that!
You sounded like you could have used a giggle. Happy to oblige.

Though I'm serious about throat-punching dickheads.
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  #97  
Old 11-18-2014, 03:53 AM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

Two comments about the forum. First we are here mainly for the same thing. To educate and to be educated about drums. Second the forum has been good to you because most of the members realize that they are accountable for their actions and anything out of line will get them a vacation or dismissal.

I would only ask that you as a female be the first to jump on any thread that starts with the Female Drummer or girl reference and let them know that there are only drummers on this forum. I think that will only strengthen your resolve.
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  #98  
Old 11-18-2014, 04:04 AM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

There are a lot of ego maniac fool musicians out there. I was definitely a goofy looking kid and awkward teen. I found musicians to be particularly dicky...especially guys who worked in music stores. IF I wasn't ignored, I was given attitude.
I imagine that at least some of what you're experiencing is a result of that. Guys who are self conscious and insecure will put on the BS routine of dumping on anyone that makes them even a little uncomfortable.

I have a 7 year old daughter who is a killer soccer player and fledgling drummer. She already has to deal with boys who have trouble coping with the fact that she kills on the field and behind the kit.
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  #99  
Old 11-18-2014, 04:17 AM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

@Kamak

There are differences between men and women. To deny that is to have your head very firmly....in the sand.

Men are in general stronger than women. Men are in general better at tasks requiring spatial reasoning. Women are in general better at tasks requiring empathy than men. Your wife may beat you hands down at armwrestling every time, and your map reading skillz may suck...but the generalisations still hold true, as generalisations.

None of which is to say that men are better than women...but there are many, many differences between the two. Notions of superiority are social constructs, notions of difference are not.
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  #100  
Old 11-18-2014, 04:41 AM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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@Kamak

There are differences between men and women. To deny that is to have your head very firmly....in the sand.

Men are in general stronger than women. Men are in general better at tasks requiring spatial reasoning. Women are in general better at tasks requiring empathy than men. Your wife may beat you hands down at armwrestling every time, and your map reading skillz may suck...but the generalisations still hold true, as generalisations.

None of which is to say that men are better than women...but there are many, many differences between the two. Notions of superiority are social constructs, notions of difference are not.
Agin.. There are no women. There are only men. Half of men have vaginas, a flipped chromosome, etc.

The entire women/woman thing was made up, so that dicks could control the men with vaginas.

You probably understand by now why even modern-day-feminists and I don't see eye to eye.
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  #101  
Old 11-18-2014, 04:50 AM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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You probably understand by now why even modern-day-feminists and I don't see eye to eye.
I'll wager that kind of reasoning will have you eyeball to knee cap with a hell of a lot more than just the feminists of the world.
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  #102  
Old 11-18-2014, 05:08 AM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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I'll wager that kind of reasoning will have you eyeball to knee cap with a hell of a lot more than just the feminists of the world.
You have that right. I've even had to duck a few thrown objects here in my own home!

I come into a sexism thread to describe a philosophy where unconditional equality exists and start getting told how women are "in general" inferior in so many ways. It saddens me to think that I used to feel exactly the same way, and it really took a monumental spiritual re-jiggering for me to come to terms with exactly how wrong I was.

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  #103  
Old 11-18-2014, 05:22 AM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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You have that right.
The right to what? You've misunderstood me. Read it again old mate. I merely made a prediction of people other than feminists not agreeing with the line of thought you're flogging. "Eyeball to kneecap" really couldn't be any further away from "eye to eye" you see.

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I come into a sexism thread to describe a philosophy where unconditional equality exists and start getting told how women are "in general" inferior in so many ways.
Not from me you didn't. But I will espouse that there ARE indeed differences. BIG differences. Differences to be celebrated, not denied........and certainly not to be used as some kind of leverage. To deny that there are differences doesn't equate to equality. Not by a long shot. To blatantly ignore that is a fools errand......or just someone trying to be deliberately provocative and controversial. Either way, universal truths are being overlooked in order to make the argument. Which might make it good for a giggle.....which it is.....but ultimately, hard to take seriously.
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  #104  
Old 11-18-2014, 05:40 AM
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The right to what?
Right = Correct. As In, "You've got that correct!"


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Not from me you didn't. But I will espouse that there ARE indeed differences. BIG differences. Differences to be celebrated, not denied........and certainly not to be used as some kind of leverage. To deny that there are differences doesn't equate to equality. Not by a long shot. To blatantly ignore that is a fools errand......or just someone trying to be deliberately provocative and controversial. Either way, universal truths are being overlooked in order to make the argument. Which might make it good for a giggle.....which it is.....but ultimately, hard to take seriously.
Indeed, and the only point of contention is to whether the differences are between man/man (my view) and man/woman (the popular view). Its really simple to work out. I'm not denying the existence of things that can be subjectively assessed and measured, I'm denying anything that would allow us to call half of mankind by some other name, and to treat them any differently, and make inaccurate generalizations about them.

Next Up: Half of all pennies have a picture of Abe Lincoln on the front.
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  #105  
Old 11-18-2014, 05:53 AM
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Right = Correct. As In, "You've got that correct!"
Ah. Gotcha. Then while we're pretending there are no women, let's also pretend you don't speak English and we'll just call it 'lost in translation', hey? That way no one will know that I'm really an idiot. :-)

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I'm denying anything that would allow us to call half of mankind by some other name
Dunno mate, I reckon "man with a dick vs man with a vagina" could be reason enough to continue to make some sort of distinction though. It'll certainly help me determine which toilet I need to use.

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Next Up: Half of all pennies have a picture of Abe Lincoln on the front.
Correction. Half of all United States pennies have Abe Lincoln on the front.


Sorry mate. I've always been that annoying little prick who's looking for any excuse to say "but". My school teachers thought I was a bloody nightmare! :-)
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  #106  
Old 11-18-2014, 06:08 AM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

What we should all be doing is treating people as individuals, with equal respect. End of.

This whole man with a snatch vs man with a pecker thing is pure BS.

There are times when the difference between a man and a woman is relevant, and times when it is not.
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  #107  
Old 11-18-2014, 06:36 AM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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What we should all be doing is treating people as individuals, with equal respect. End of.

This whole man with a snatch vs man with a pecker thing is pure BS.

There are times when the difference between a man and a woman is relevant, and times when it is not.
Amen to that. Men and women ARE different from each other. Not one better / worse that the other, not superior / inferior, either way. Just different.

And I for one am very glad for that.
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  #108  
Old 11-18-2014, 07:07 AM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

Late to the party here. Yup Madge, getting the second class citizen treatment is galling. We all know that a certain percentage of people are assholes.

I have to say that my treatment by men in music has been overwhelmingly positive. Most people are inherently decent IMO, even men ;-)
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  #109  
Old 11-18-2014, 07:10 AM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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Dr, you're right.

The "threat" I was talking about - and I should have used a better word - was that of somebody keen to engage in a spot of horizontal tango.
Make no mistake. I've seen many a case where a guy gets drunk, has his eye on a lass, and all of a sudden thinks he has a right to be spittin' mad when she turns his drunk ass down for company.

In other words, there are some really messed up dudes out there who don't take rejection well, and insulting them (even if they truly deserve it for extremely tasteless pickup attempts) is like poking a sleeping bear with the afore-mentioned drumstick. Don't give their fragile little egos anything to latch onto.
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Old 11-18-2014, 07:42 AM
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Make no mistake. I've seen many a case where a guy gets drunk, has his eye on a lass, and all of a sudden thinks he has a right to be spittin' mad when she turns his drunk ass down for company.
There's an art to rejecting morons. Back in the day I found asking him all about his family, as though I was actually interested worked best. Once you get them (reluctantly) thinking about their mum, dad, brothers, sisters, cousins, nephews and nieces you start becoming a human being to them rather than an object.

At that point most will flee.
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  #111  
Old 11-18-2014, 09:12 AM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

Wow, I go to sleep and everything turns surreal!

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Though I'm serious about throat-punching dickheads.
I know, chicken.

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I would only ask that you as a female be the first to jump on any thread that starts with the Female Drummer or girl reference and let them know that there are only drummers on this forum. I think that will only strengthen your resolve.
With immense pleasure. It wouldn't be the first time!

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I have a 7 year old daughter who is a killer soccer player and fledgling drummer. She already has to deal with boys who have trouble coping with the fact that she kills on the field and behind the kit.
Let's not forget that boys have to learn too, and that associating with your daughter - way to go! - is a great opportunity for them and their families.

Is it time for this thread to be closed, admins?
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  #112  
Old 11-18-2014, 01:03 PM
mikel mikel is offline
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

Men and Women are different, and It should be embraced. With the skills we have between us my other half and me make a great team.

Stating that men and women are the same is just plain stupid. Equal, without a doubt, but not the same, I am delighted to say.

Here is an off the wall thought. What If we let Women run the country, Britain, for those of you not from this Island.
Men, mostly, have been doing it for a long time and mostly making a pigs ear of it. I know Thatcher had a go but she was trying to run it like a man, In my opinion.

What If Women ran parliament and ran It the way they wanted, rather than towing the old party line and having to fit the male mould. I for one think the female mind may be better suited to managing a country than the tried and failed male model.
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  #113  
Old 11-18-2014, 03:01 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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Men and Women are different, and It should be embraced. With the skills we have between us my other half and me make a great team.

Stating that men and women are the same is just plain stupid. Equal, without a doubt, but not the same, I am delighted to say.

Here is an off the wall thought. What If we let Women run the country, Britain, for those of you not from this Island.
Men, mostly, have been doing it for a long time and mostly making a pigs ear of it. I know Thatcher had a go but she was trying to run it like a man, In my opinion.

What If Women ran parliament and ran It the way they wanted, rather than towing the old party line and having to fit the male mould. I for one think the female mind may be better suited to managing a country than the tried and failed male model.
There's plenty of females in UK Government and Opposition.

They seem largely to be as corrupt, and completely incompetent, as the men.

One of my local MPs is Hazel Blears. Fiddled her expenses but paid it back, so that's all OK then.

And Thatcher...well the lids going to come off all her scams, and fiddles in time, probably beginning with the organised paedophile ring at Westminster in the 80s which appears to be just about beginning to unfold.
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  #114  
Old 11-18-2014, 03:09 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

What seems to be coming out of this thread is that we all have a very similar view (we are all drummers after all), but sometimes the way that we express it get's lost in translation...probably time to agree to agree and move on.

Mark
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Old 11-18-2014, 03:22 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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...probably time to agree to agree and move on.
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Is it time for this thread to be closed, admins?
Yes, it's probably time to move on... drummers are drummers, period.

The rest is about respect, politeness and being a positive human being... maybe I'm just a dreamer...

Keep on drumming Madge :)
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  #116  
Old 11-18-2014, 03:43 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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Is it time for this thread to be closed, admins?
Dunno. Your thread and ultimately, your call. But you invited wider thought, musings and discussion on this for a reason. I can only assume because something bugged you enough to want to follow it up and seek the opinions and mindset of those that can perhaps offer another perspective to that of own. Now that you've done that, what's changed? Why invite the discussion only to ask to have it shut down when it arrives?

Ultimately Madge, it's your decision.......but I've noticed a few threads lately that have subsequently been shut down by those that instigated them. It leaves me to ask the obvious, why bother in the first place?
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  #117  
Old 11-18-2014, 04:28 PM
mikel mikel is offline
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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There's plenty of females in UK Government and Opposition.

They seem largely to be as corrupt, and completely incompetent, as the men.

One of my local MPs is Hazel Blears. Fiddled her expenses but paid it back, so that's all OK then.

And Thatcher...well the lids going to come off all her scams, and fiddles in time, probably beginning with the organised paedophile ring at Westminster in the 80s which appears to be just about beginning to unfold.
Missed my point entirely. I said if they "ran things the way they wanted". I would say most have had to become part of the male dominated political machine just to get on, and are kept on a tight leash by the whips, that's hardly running things the way they think. I also pointed out that Thatcher was trying to run it like a man, bullying and the rest.

I would say Parliament was a very sexist place to be. I also have no doubt that some of the women in there are simply a part of the "Quota" that parties feel they have to nominate so they can appear to be embracing equality and appeal to more voters. Its demeaning to women and frankly patronising to voters, male and female.
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Old 11-18-2014, 06:03 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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Missed my point entirely. I said if they "ran things the way they wanted". I would say most have had to become part of the male dominated political machine just to get on, and are kept on a tight leash by the whips, that's hardly running things the way they think. I also pointed out that Thatcher was trying to run it like a man, bullying and the rest.

I would say Parliament was a very sexist place to be. I also have no doubt that some of the women in there are simply a part of the "Quota" that parties feel they have to nominate so they can appear to be embracing equality and appeal to more voters. Its demeaning to women and frankly patronising to voters, male and female.
No I get your point. But I do think they are running things the way they want.

As soon as they get a taste of the gravy they fall into the conformous nature of 'take, take and take'. Almost without exception.

What do they say about 'power corrupts'

I don't think these women in politics are stupid. They're not just stooges there by the whim of men. Most of them are highly educated, qualified, people. But they get a taste for the nice champagne, and become greedy twats. Just like their male counterparts.

I can think of only a couple of exceptions (male or female) to this in politics. The lady who leads the Green Party (whose name evades me) seems to be one.
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Old 11-18-2014, 06:12 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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I also have no doubt that some of the women in there are simply a part of the "Quota" that parties feel they have to nominate so they can appear to be embracing equality and appeal to more voters.
That only makes sense if you assume that the seats belong to men by default until some women can prove themselves qualified to take them. Men get advanced for all kinds of reasons other than merit, especially if half of the population is out of the running altogether because of incorrect genitals. Suddenly holding women to a strict merit standard when everyone else clearly isn't being held to it, is basically what sexism is.
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  #120  
Old 11-18-2014, 07:19 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

There is, without a doubt, a lot of sexism in the music industry - especially from the over 40 crowd. However, I can't help but think that part of what you are experiencing has elements of a general musicianism that all of us have to put up with.

I've ran into many, many situations where people assume a host of things about me just because of my career. Many of them are not very nice, and one of them is that I'm untrustable and easy. Add in stupid ("Who would want a career in music if you weren't just stupid?" I've heard that for real, and it was meant)and an alcoholic/drug addict/poor and now you really have someone you daughter wants to date.

If they see you and assume you are easy, and stupid and possibly addicted to drugs, then you can see why they say the things they say. Your day job, on the other hand, is high status, and people will automatically assume different things about you from it, and treat you accordingly.
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