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  #41  
Old 11-17-2014, 06:33 AM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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We simply live in a society that thrives on PC grievances. It'll never end until "we" let it end.
There's a whole lot more to it than just forgiving somebody's lapse in good taste. It's not just people choosing to have a grievance that they could ignore if they wanted to.
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  #42  
Old 11-17-2014, 08:25 AM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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In the past 6 months, possibly contemporaneously with my feeling that I have "come of age" as a drummer, I've encountered way way WAY more sexism than I ever have before.
This reminds me of when marthared was talking about being given condescending "advice."

I think it may be no coincidence that now that you have better chops and greater confidence, you're getting crap from insecure jerks.

You're probably triggering feelings of inadequacy, so something in them has to "put you in your place."

It's awful, but it is a classic thing for individuals of marginalized groups to experience when they go somewhere they are "not supposed to."

Those who feel insecure about their own status will be the ones most likely to act rudely.
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  #43  
Old 11-17-2014, 09:02 AM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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There's a whole lot more to it than just forgiving somebody's lapse in good taste. It's not just people choosing to have a grievance that they could ignore if they wanted to.
^^ Exactly.

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I think it may be no coincidence that now that you have better chops and greater confidence, you're getting crap from insecure jerks.
Nothing like that has happened to me yet. I've been invisible when my male companion wasn't, but what is really bothering me right now, because it's happened several times within the past week, is that some people - acquaintances and randoms - seem to think that it's ok to make sexual advances to me, of varying degrees of seriousness, but all of them unwelcome and unlooked-for. Since this doesn't happen in my real life, I can only deduce that there's a presumption about women drummers which allows some men to behave towards them in a way that they probably wouldn't towards other women.
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  #44  
Old 11-17-2014, 09:59 AM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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...some people - acquaintances and randoms - seem to think that it's ok to make sexual advances to me, of varying degrees of seriousness, but all of them unwelcome and unlooked-for. Since this doesn't happen in my real life, I can only deduce that there's a presumption about women drummers which allows some men to behave towards them in a way that they probably wouldn't towards other women.
Dearest Madge, don't you see what's happened?

You're a rock chick now. You're getting groupies!

Oh, there may be less screaming involved - at this stage anyway - but it's a barely calmer version of groupies throwing themselves at the objects of their unattainable adoration.

As I recall, I predicted that one of your bandmates would experience this?

You know I'm right don't you?
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  #45  
Old 11-17-2014, 10:06 AM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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You know I'm right don't you?
Nonsense. And in the unlikely event that you are right, IT isn't right.
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  #46  
Old 11-17-2014, 10:21 AM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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Nothing like that has happened to me yet. I've been invisible when my male companion wasn't, but what is really bothering me right now, because it's happened several times within the past week, is that some people - acquaintances and randoms - seem to think that it's ok to make sexual advances to me, of varying degrees of seriousness, but all of them unwelcome and unlooked-for. Since this doesn't happen in my real life, I can only deduce that there's a presumption about women drummers which allows some men to behave towards them in a way that they probably wouldn't towards other women.
Wow. Now that is uncalled for, unwarranted and inappropriate.

Unfortunately I see a lot of sexism within music. One visit to my local dive bar will show you this...
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  #47  
Old 11-17-2014, 10:37 AM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

As mentioned I think it can go both ways. I had a female drummer that shout out proud that by being a woman she could get a job in IT easily because they had a female quota that needed to be achieved. She stated not be a good professional but she was taking advantage of the fact that they needed a certain number of women in the company
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  #48  
Old 11-17-2014, 11:09 AM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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Chicken, I don't give a cat's arse who I offend, given that I don't set out to offend anybody.

But if somebody you'd never even heard of made suggestive remarks to you, based SOLELY on your gender and the fact that you are a drummer, how would you feel?
How you feel is entirely down to you and how you let this kind of crap effect you.

I'm a very large guy. 24 stone. A real giant. I've gone through life taking abuse about my weight from humour to just outright offensiveness. It doesn't trouble me. I laugh it off. It's the only way to be, else I'd have thrown myself off Stockport Viaduct many years back.

Realise and come to terms with the fact that you'll never change people and unless you try to avoid certain people who you've found to be suspect, then the only way to avoid it will be to stop drumming or change sex. Those are your choices. Or you just deal with it in whatever way you choose.

This probably doesn't help. But it's absolutely right.
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  #49  
Old 11-17-2014, 11:19 AM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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Sorry Les, but this is just plain flat out wrong.

Any time you hear somebody expressing an opinion that relates to a group, rather than the individual, you're hearing an 'ism at work.

The schism is, an 'ism is rooted in misunderstanding.





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Originally Posted by Magenta View Post
Now, I realise that I know what happened and you don't, and I don't want to share the prurient details, but please trust me when I say that it was way more than giving or taking offence.

Oh wait, a lead-in to some prurient details:



"... what is really bothering me right now, because it's happened several times within the past week, is that some people - acquaintances and randoms - seem to think that it's ok to make sexual advances to me, of varying degrees of seriousness, but all of them unwelcome and unlooked-for."



Unwelcome, unlooked for sexual advances, this is a first?




Quote:
Since this doesn't happen in my real life, I can only deduce that there's a presumption about women drummers which allows some men to behave towards them in a way that they probably wouldn't towards other women.

Could it be your 'real life' is not making you feel sexy like your assumed life is? Drumming life does put one into some very smarmy places/situations, and the cock is sure to crow more than once.


I say if you can't handle the heat, get out of the chicken.
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  #50  
Old 11-17-2014, 11:19 AM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

There was a very pleasing undercurrent of female influence at LDS this year. Not only represented on the stages, but also on the exhibition floor. Gemma Hill (pictured left below) is the new editor of Drummer Magazine, with Ciara Lavers & Michele Drees increasingly "noticed" on the circuit. There's many more too. I spent most of last night trying to work up a combination of recorded acoustic kit & programmed drum parts into a single acoustic kit part suited to live trio. The parts were originally performed by Sarah Jones, another talented drummer appearing on the radar.

The point I'm making with this is, things are changing, but it's a generational shift. No amount of female drumming success will change the closed mind brigade overnight. It's a shame, but there it is. All the successful professional female musicians I know have to cut through this shit on a daily basis. To them, it's not only an offended sensibility & a dose of injustice, it's lost work. Hell, even the likes of Yolanda Charles gets this crap. One of the most respected bassists out there with a list of credits to make most successful drummers look inadequate is shifting this crap regularly. The only way forward I can suggest for any female artist is to shrug it off as someone else's insecurity & move on. You shouldn't have to do it, but it's there, so a choice has to be made.

Madge, the only comfort I can offer is there's support out there. Not only amongst an exciting female drumming groundswell, but absolutely within many members of the externally plumbed bin bashers too. Gravitate towards those that appreciate, & steer clear of those seeking to prop up their own inadequacies.
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  #51  
Old 11-17-2014, 11:44 AM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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Oh wait, a lead-in to some prurient details:
Yes, I made a decision to do what I said I wouldn't do, because people weren't understanding what I meant. So shoot me.

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Unwelcome, unlooked for sexual advances, this is a first?
Whether it is or not, does that make it right?

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I say if you can't handle the heat, get out of the chicken.
There shouldn't be any heat for me to handle, in or out of the chicken.
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  #52  
Old 11-17-2014, 11:54 AM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

We all get it, right? Be it Ginger, fat, thin, short, tall, bald, old, young, male, female, disabled, black, white, gay, etc etc etc. Its how you react that matters.

It will always go on because people will be people. As we say in Britain, sometimes, "There is nowt as queer as folk". And you see, some could take offence at the wording of that old saying.

If I was to, for sake of argument, rob a store in Botswana and the people in there at the time were asked to describe the thief, there first response would be "It was a white guy", not cos they are racist but because in that situation that would be the first of my many and varied attributes that would stand out. It would also make me much easier to track down than saying "Oh he was about 5ft 5" tall, late middle age".

I have had isms thrown at me, I know its easy to say, but I laugh them off, or ignore them. People who like to use this form of interaction very quickly lose interest as soon as they see they are not having the desired effect.
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  #53  
Old 11-17-2014, 12:05 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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There shouldn't be any heat for me to handle, in or out of the chicken.
There shouldn't be any starvation on Earth and everyone should get on in peace, accepting and understanding everyone's differences.

And then there's the real world.....
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  #54  
Old 11-17-2014, 12:13 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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We all get it, right? Be it Ginger, fat, thin, short, tall, bald, old, young, male, female, disabled, black, white, gay, etc etc etc. Its how you react that matters.
Yeah, absolutely. Your reaction matters. And there are times when the appropriate reaction is white-hot, incandescent rage.

If I grok what Madge is describing, part of what happened is she was in a music/drum shop and got ignored while other - male - drummers were served. That is an appropriate time to react with white-hot, incandescent rage. Clearly the shop assistant assumed that she was just along for the ride. Because girls aren't serious drummers. That kind of attitude deserves a kick in the taint. With steel-toed boots. With spikes.

That's also an example of an unprofessional shop assistant. It's widely known among sales professionals that when a man and a woman come into your shop, you sell the woman. Why? Because 80%+ of the time, she's the one who will actually pay you for the product the man wants. Never mind that Madge went in to buy a thing for herself. Even if she wasn't a drummer and went in with Mr Madge, chances are overwhelming that she'd be the one making the financial decision to buy the expensive widget.

It's easy to sit behind your keyboard and rationalize. I understand your approach. It's a good approach, sometimes. Other times you need to wrap it up carefully, set it aside where it won't get broken, and just start throat-punching dickheads until you feel they have been sufficiently chastised.
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  #55  
Old 11-17-2014, 12:17 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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And then there's the real world.....
Yep, I know you're right and I reluctantly accept that I have to be pragmatic about it, but things shouldn't be the way they are and this sort of stuff would happen less if more people were more active about putting a stop to it. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has at times said nothing about any sort of wrong thing when I could have said something.

Btw, changing gender wouldn't help. The stuff my transgender friends are on the receiving end of, is unbelievably hideous.

ETA STXBob, you're spot-on there, although that particular incident happened a few months ago and has since been rectified with interest, and I'm now a very happy and loyal customer. And you've made me laff too, so thanks for that!
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  #56  
Old 11-17-2014, 12:23 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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Nothing down for Emma then! (I am blonde sometimes, btw.)
Absolutely nothing down for Emma, she knows how to handle this kind of BS... it doesn't make it right, I know, but unfortunately there's some sick people with prejudice out there, so when they approach you with their sexist or discriminated comments, they've got to be put back where they belong.

I'd love to see you blonde :)

Oh, BTW, I forgot this is a serious thread, I hope I'm forgiven to joke around such a serious topic...



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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
All the successful professional female musicians I know have to cut through this shit on a daily basis. To them, it's not only an offended sensibility & a dose of injustice, it's lost work.
Absolutely correct... unfortunately :(

This is what Michele Drees confirmed in another thread on the topic of sexism about female drummers:

I have to say this issue of being a 'female' drummer really bores me now after all these years.
What I can say, is that I have realised that even though I have experienced some discrimination over the years, for example being booked to dep for a jazz situation and when they found out I was a 'female' I was un booked!!


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Madge, the only comfort I can offer is there's support out there. Not only amongst an exciting female drumming groundswell, but absolutely within many members of the externally plumbed bin bashers too. Gravitate towards those that appreciate, & steer clear of those seeking to prop up their own inadequacies.
Absolutely, ignore the ignorants, focus on your goals and embrace music and drumming.
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  #57  
Old 11-17-2014, 12:57 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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Madge, the only comfort I can offer is there's support out there. Not only amongst an exciting female drumming groundswell, but absolutely within many members of the externally plumbed bin bashers too.
Yes, absolutely. As I said in my original post, DW has been brilliant, and I think that's partly why it's come as a shock that things can be so different.

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I'd love to see you blonde :)

Oh, BTW, I forgot this is a serious thread, I hope I'm forgiven to joke around such a serious topic...
As it happens, I'm having yet another bad hair day and there's nothing funny about that!
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  #58  
Old 11-17-2014, 01:14 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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Yes, absolutely. As I said in my original post, DW has been brilliant, and I think that's partly why it's come as a shock that things can be so different.
There is very little "real life" about this forum compared to the general drumming scene. Those here are generally way more informed, open, & forward thinking.
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  #59  
Old 11-17-2014, 01:52 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

I must admit I have absolutely no idea why sexism (or racism for that matter) even exists, maybe it's human conditioning. From a personal perspective I can't think of any reason why I would think of a female musician as being any different from me, it's certainly not quality of musicianship, we all work at differing levels of ability.

I think that it's human conditioning passed down the generations to people who just don't think too hard about their attitudes and ideals, because surely if they did think about it, they would have a hard time reconciling their actions.

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  #60  
Old 11-17-2014, 01:56 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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There is very little "real life" about this forum compared to the general drumming scene. Those here are generally way more informed, open, & forward thinking.
Good god you're so right.

The live music scene I'm into (punk/mod), the level of bigotry, racism especially, is astonishing. It's like it's still in the 1970s.

Gods honest truth this, MLC turned up to support Sham69 at the Live Rooms in Chester a few weeks back. Sham69 had a merch stand and they were proudly sharing their latest T Shirt design which said "Harry Roberts is a Hero....he kills coppers". These guys are like, in their 50s now. And they think this is clever. Knobheads.

PS: Our bass player is a police constable for Greater Manchester Police and was first on scene when the two female cops were killed in Hattersley a couple of years back.
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  #61  
Old 11-17-2014, 02:00 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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I must admit I have absolutely no idea why sexism (or racism for that matter) even exists, maybe it's human conditioning. From a personal perspective I can't think of any reason why I would think of a female musician as being any different from me, it's certainly not quality of musicianship, we all work at differing levels of ability.

I think that it's human conditioning passed down the generations to people who just don't think too hard about their attitudes and ideals, because surely if they did think about it, they would have a hard time reconciling their actions.

Mark
Personally I just think it's a lack of intelligence actually.

I mean, we're all products of the environment we were brought up in. Jesus, my dad was rabidly racist. I'm not (but I was as a kid). I grew out of it when my brain developed.

My friend remains casually racist to this day. He's a bit thick.

I'm convinced it's as simple as that. Whenever you see groups of EDL for example, they don't exactly look, sound, or act like the pool balls are all in the triangle.
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  #62  
Old 11-17-2014, 02:01 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

Ironically, the prospect of being sexually propositioned has been a driving factor in many a young man's desire to pick up a guitar, a pair of sticks or belt out a tune in the first place.

Wish we had an answer for you Madge. If you were a 16 year old male, you'd no doubt see the advances of the opposite sex quite differently. Alas as it stands, it's a shame that you can't just enjoy what you're doing without being made to feel uncomfortable doing it. Hopefully the tide is turning, but the evolutionary process can be awfully slow.

In the meantime, a good old fashioned expletive filled directive can be quite effective at keeping the wolves from the door.
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  #63  
Old 11-17-2014, 02:24 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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Personally I just think it's a lack of intelligence actually.

I mean, we're all products of the environment we were brought up in. Jesus, my dad was rabidly racist. I'm not (but I was as a kid). I grew out of it when my brain developed.

My friend remains casually racist to this day. He's a bit thick.

I'm convinced it's as simple as that. Whenever you see groups of EDL for example, they don't exactly look, sound, or act like the pool balls are all in the triangle.
I agree SquadLeader, that's kind of what I meant when I mentioned that they do not think too hard about their attitudes and ideals. I'm friends with people on Facebook that I went to school with, some of them still have racist and sexist attitudes, the one thing that I notice is that they will rant on using street slang, no punctuation whatsoever and making no real sense. It is a bit of a generalisation...but generally, I think you're right!

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  #64  
Old 11-17-2014, 02:37 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

This is not meant to be a sexist comment but maybe our expectations are lower when it comes to talent. For instance, female comedians rarely make me laugh. There are exceptions, but for the most part, they don't entertain me and make me laugh.

Sorry. Please don't hate me.
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Old 11-17-2014, 03:05 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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This is not meant to be a sexist comment but maybe our expectations are lower when it comes to talent. For instance, female comedians rarely make me laugh. There are exceptions, but for the most part, they don't entertain me and make me laugh.

Sorry. Please don't hate me.
Just a taste thing I'd say.

It's allowed. I don't particularly like reggae, rap, and many other styles of music dominated by black musicians. Doesn't make me racist. It's just not to my taste. Doesn't mean I don't like the black musicians performing the music. It's just the music I don't like.

On the other hand I like Ska which is rooted in the reggae movement.

Taste. Simple as that I reckon.
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Old 11-17-2014, 03:28 PM
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Just a taste thing I'd say.

It's allowed. I don't particularly like reggae, rap, and many other styles of music dominated by black musicians. Doesn't make me racist. It's just not to my taste. Doesn't mean I don't like the black musicians performing the music. It's just the music I don't like.

On the other hand I like Ska which is rooted in the reggae movement.

Taste. Simple as that I reckon.
I could have written every word of that! In fact, I wish I had - and I probably will, at some point ;)
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Old 11-17-2014, 04:00 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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Just a taste thing I'd say.

It's allowed. I don't particularly like reggae, rap, and many other styles of music dominated by black musicians. Doesn't make me racist. It's just not to my taste. Doesn't mean I don't like the black musicians performing the music. It's just the music I don't like.

On the other hand I like Ska which is rooted in the reggae movement.

Taste. Simple as that I reckon.
Off subject, sorry Madge, but I'd say reggae is rooted in the ska movement to be more exact. Not the other way around, but that's neither here nor there. Anyway...
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  #68  
Old 11-17-2014, 04:16 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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Off subject, sorry Madge, but I'd say reggae is rooted in the ska movement to be more exact. Not the other way around, but that's neither here nor there. Anyway...
You are absolutely right.
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Old 11-17-2014, 04:23 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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This is not meant to be a sexist comment but maybe our expectations are lower when it comes to talent. For instance, female comedians rarely make me laugh. There are exceptions, but for the most part, they don't entertain me and make me laugh.
How is your not liking female-anatomied comedians a reflection on their talent? I don't get it. The talent is there, and 'female' is not a genre or style of comedy, so I don't see how this can be a matter of taste, unless you just think women can't be/aren't funny just because they're women. If you feel that way, fine, but that's strictly an issue with your own feelings, not with somebody else's lack of talent.
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Old 11-17-2014, 04:58 PM
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  #70  
Old 11-17-2014, 04:58 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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How is your not liking female-anatomied comedians a reflection on their talent? I don't get it. The talent is there, and 'female' is not a genre or style of comedy, so I don't see how this can be a matter of taste, unless you just think women can't be/aren't funny just because they're women. If you feel that way, fine, but that's strictly an issue with your own feelings, not with somebody else's lack of talent.
If I understand correctly, the issue of "taste" related to whether or not the comedians' material was found to be funny. I think it was probably entirely coincidental that they happened to be female. I suppose if you think about it, the ratio of funny/unfunny comedians is probably similar in males and in females, but the paucity of women comedians may skew the perception.
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Old 11-17-2014, 05:04 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

There is a lot really good stuff here. I wish I could thumbs up or quote and comment on everything I love about this thread, but that would be crazy huge post.

In my opinion, the most rampant problem with the sexism in drumming is with the girls taking advantage of it. Regardless of talent, their is a vacancy in the drumming market for a good "view". If you know the drumming world is male dominated and you've got the goods to take full advantage of that, there seems to be no limit to how much exposure you can get in filling that vacancy. The more popular the female drummer, the more cookie cutter, half model, half popstar princess doll they become .. almost as a rule.

Sometimes I swear we are only a few years away from a Drumboy magazine so some nonsense.. I wouldn't be surprised if a swimsuit calendar already exists. This stuff is so ridiculous.

In short, both males and females both are responsible for this perpetual subjugation machine. I'm having a daughter soon, and as much I would love for her to be a drummer, I don't want her swept away in the image obsessed vortex of female drumming. Its a bit strident, but its my view.

On the other hand, Cindy Blackman is the paradigm exception to the rule. She is a bonafide badass behind the drums, and she doesn't give a shit about what anybody thinks of her, and its awesome. Mag- I would put you in that category and commend you for breaking the rule and standing up for self worth. The world of drumming needs more women like you guys and more men that don't drool at any set of tits with drums.
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Old 11-17-2014, 05:25 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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If I understand correctly, the issue of "taste" related to whether or not the comedians' material was found to be funny. I think it was probably entirely coincidental that they happened to be female. I suppose if you think about it, the ratio of funny/unfunny comedians is probably similar in males and in females, but the paucity of women comedians may skew the perception.
These things are delicate hey... If you say I don't like female athletes because they don't run as fast as male ones, I don't know if one should call it sexist but st least it's based on facts.
Now about female comedians and being funny... Female brains and male brains ARE known to be different (I am assuming funny is in the brain :)), for starters the weight.
Then again the standard variation among females and males is probably more than the difference between the average of each group.

Maybe we should go back to the kit and paradiddle....
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Old 11-17-2014, 05:40 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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There is a lot really good stuff here. I wish I could thumbs up or quote and comment on everything I love about this thread, but that would be crazy huge post.

In my opinion, the most rampant problem with the sexism in drumming is with the girls taking advantage of it. Regardless of talent, their is a vacancy in the drumming market for a good "view". If you know the drumming world is male dominated and you've got the goods to take full advantage of that, there seems to be no limit to how much exposure you can get in filling that vacancy. The more popular the female drummer, the more cookie cutter, half model, half popstar princess doll they become .. almost as a rule.

Sometimes I swear we are only a few years away from a Drumboy magazine so some nonsense.. I wouldn't be surprised if a swimsuit calendar already exists. This stuff is so ridiculous.

In short, both males and females both are responsible for this perpetual subjugation machine. I'm having a daughter soon, and as much I would love for her to be a drummer, I don't want her swept away in the image obsessed vortex of female drumming. Its a bit strident, but its my view.

On the other hand, Cindy Blackman is the paradigm exception to the rule. She is a bonafide badass behind the drums, and she doesn't give a shit about what anybody thinks of her, and its awesome. Mag- I would put you in that category and commend you for breaking the rule and standing up for self worth. The world of drumming needs more women like you guys and more men that don't drool at any set of tits with drums.
I do hope that, between being a will-less, hot, drumming (but not very well) sex toy, and no longer giving a shit (or some animal's arse as they say in Wales) about what other people think, there is a quiet place in the middle where normal girls and women can simply enjoy playing and become competent and admired drummers.
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Old 11-17-2014, 05:46 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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and more men that don't drool at any set of tits with drums.
This time round, it's shoes - apparently.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoKsSD1eZak

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Old 11-17-2014, 05:56 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

I dont know if being ignored in a shop is always down to a sexist assistant. I have been passed over before, when it was patently my turn, I said "Excuse me I think I am next" and that problem is usually sorted. I dont automatically believe its because I am short, or old, or whatever. It could be a genuine mistake, ignorance, or a guy wanting to serve his mate first.

If the assistant said "Oh I wasnt serving you cos your old", now that would be different, time for me to go ballistic and demand to see owner/manager.

Sometimes people just don't think, or do the easy thing first.

Not saying sexism is not out there, I know it is. Sadly, old habits seem to be dieing very hard.
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Old 11-17-2014, 06:05 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

Madge, I remembered a few things today that are examples of 'everyday sexism'.

i) A sign saying 'Please wash up after yourself: I'm not your mother'.

Hmmm. Light-hearted but...

ii) The reaction my ex had every time we went into a restaurant and I was addressed first, as if to make the order on her behalf. Used to drive her around the bend...

Many others I'm sure but there are two that I recall.
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Old 11-17-2014, 06:06 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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I dont know if being ignored in a shop is always down to a sexist assistant. I have been passed over before, when it was patently my turn, I said "Excuse me I think I am next" and that problem is usually sorted. I dont automatically believe its because I am short, or old, or whatever. It could be a genuine mistake, ignorance, or a guy wanting to serve his mate first.

If the assistant said "Oh I wasnt serving you cos your old", now that would be different, time for me to go ballistic and demand to see owner/manager.

Sometimes people just don't think, or do the easy thing first.

Not saying sexism is not out there, I know it is. Sadly, old habits seem to be dieing very hard.
In general Mike, I agree. However, I am aware of one of the episodes that Madge refers to. It was at a trade show some months ago, & the guy involved was/is an absolute bigoted idiot. Even when it was clearly pointed out to him that Madge was the purchaser, he continued to blank her completely. Needless to say, that individual is no longer associated with the company who was running the trade stand.
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Old 11-17-2014, 06:13 PM
mikel mikel is offline
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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In general Mike, I agree. However, I am aware of one of the episodes that Madge refers to. It was at a trade show some months ago, & the guy involved was/is an absolute bigoted idiot. Even when it was clearly pointed out to him that Madge was the purchaser, he continued to blank her completely. Needless to say, that individual is no longer associated with the company who was running the trade stand.
I couldnt agree more. It seems there is no shortage of brain dead morons. What was someone with such poor people skills, or indeed common decency, doing working front end for a company, whatever there size?
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Old 11-17-2014, 06:17 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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Mag- I would put you in that category and commend you for breaking the rule and standing up for self worth. The world of drumming needs more women like you guys and more men that don't drool at any set of tits with drums.
Thank you, that's kind of you. I was going to say "Thank you, chicken" but I stopped myself, just in case it was wrong of me. The world also needs more men like the vast majority of those on DW. Please fight the good fight, chaps!

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Originally Posted by picodon View Post
I do hope that, between being a will-less, hot, drumming (but not very well) sex toy, and no longer giving a shit (or some animal's arse as they say in Wales) about what other people think, there is a quiet place in the middle where normal girls and women can simply enjoy playing and become competent and admired drummers.
That would be nice. Shall we make it happen?

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
This time round, it's shoes - apparently.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoKsSD1eZak

.
I'm not showing that to the Singapore Slingbacks: they'll want her instead of me! Clearly, she has modelled herself on us :) WFID was asking about playing in heels at LDS. I think that would answer her question.

Can't decide about Meytal's hair. Mine would do that if I let it, but I'm not entirely convinced that I could carry it off as well as she does.
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Old 11-17-2014, 06:18 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

IMO the things that were thrown your way Madge....could have been stopped dead in it's tracks by you slicing and dicing your attackers with your cutting wit, and your superior word chops. Meaning turning everything around on them so that THEY are in the hot seat. The best defense is a good offense.

If you don't speak up, it becomes a lot worse than if you just threw the grenade back at them and let them squirm. If it worked out like I envisioned, you would have felt empowered, felt confident, and actually helped to correct the situation. In the future, I'd like to see you handle it head on, with class, wit, and total confidence as you rip them a new hole.

Most guys I know don't like being dressed down by anybody, regardless of sex. When you have right on your side, it's kind of your responsibility to fight that which pisses you off. Or it will keep happening.

Failing that, ridiculing his penis size and lack of manliness can work pretty well with certain types lol.

If you really want to be equal, and this is not directed at you Madge, you have to actually act equal and not accept that which is unacceptable.

Questioning is a great tactic:

Rude man: Hey baby, I love the way you jiggle when you play.

Nice woman: Who the hell gave you permission to talk to me like that? (Standing up aggressively, seething with anger and walking towards him) Well who?

Sometimes you have to fight.
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