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  #1  
Old 02-12-2015, 09:01 PM
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SlitYourDrums SlitYourDrums is offline
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Default Endorsement information

Now, let me clarify: I am NOT seeking endorsment deals, a question came to mind during biology, and I am curious.

Anyways, here it is. Say I or somebody has an endorsement deal with Tama and uses a Starclassic B/B. Now say they also have a deal with Pork Pie. Would it go against Tama to use a PP snare with your PP throne instead of a Tama snare?
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Old 02-12-2015, 09:07 PM
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Default Re: Endorsement information

What does it say in the contract?
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Old 02-12-2015, 09:24 PM
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Default Re: Endorsement information

All arrangement details are agreed between artist & sponsor. There is no standard. Some companies will have an issue with use of a snare from a different brand, some won't.
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Old 02-12-2015, 09:48 PM
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Living Dead Drummer Living Dead Drummer is offline
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Default Re: Endorsement information

Most deals are exclusive, though hardware Vs. Drums can be an exception. You will occasionally see someone who plays Ludwig, but has a deal with DW for pedals or hardware. Ideally most companies want you to use ALL of their brands offerings.

So, short form is it "can" be okay to endorse Tama and have a deal using a Pork Pie throne. Tama would probably prefer you use their throne, but might be cool and not pressure you.

With Snare drums, most companies know that drummers, especially session guys, use a variety of sounds. Again, ideally they want you using their brand, but may not through a fit as long as your not out promoting another brand.

I endorse Yamaha Drums, but I use DW pedals & a variety of snares. Yamaha doesn't have a problem with this, because I'm not out promoting the fact that I use another brands gear. Most of my non-Yamaha snares have had the badge removed so no other company logo is present, and when I appear in a music video or on TV I only use Yamaha gear.
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  #5  
Old 02-13-2015, 01:05 AM
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No Way Jose No Way Jose is offline
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Default Re: Endorsement information

Quote:
Originally Posted by Militant View Post
a question [about drum endorsments] came to mind during biology
I like this part. Your priorities are in the right order.
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  #6  
Old 02-13-2015, 01:52 AM
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Default Re: Endorsement information

Quote:
Originally Posted by No Way Jose View Post
I like this part. Your priorities are in the right order.
Haha...
that's all I do during school, think about what cymbal I'm buying next or interesting setup ideas.
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  #7  
Old 02-13-2015, 06:26 AM
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bermuda bermuda is offline
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Default Re: Endorsement information

Quote:
Originally Posted by masonni View Post
Most deals are exclusive, though hardware Vs. Drums can be an exception.

With Snare drums, most companies know that drummers, especially session guys, use a variety of sounds. Again, ideally they want you using their brand, but may not through a fit as long as your not out promoting another brand.
True on hardware. But the snare is a slightly grey area, which can go either way depending on the companies involved, and the artist in question.

For example, if someone was a Yamaha artist but chose to endorse a Sakae snare, there might be a bit of an issue there. Although, perhaps not if it was someone of Vinnie's caliber, where their name possesses enough value to the company where they wouldn't try to force their hand about the competition's product.

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  #8  
Old 02-13-2015, 06:49 AM
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Default Re: Endorsement information

Quote:
Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
True on hardware. But the snare is a slightly grey area, which can go either way depending on the companies involved, and the artist in question.

For example, if someone was a Yamaha artist but chose to endorse a Sakae snare, there might be a bit of an issue there. Although, perhaps not if it was someone of Vinnie's caliber, where their name possesses enough value to the company where they wouldn't try to force their hand about the competition's product.

Bermuda
Yes, some of the bigger names get away with things.

I remember way back when Modern Drummer had the "ask a pro" section, and someone wrote to ask Phill Collins what splash he had used on a particular tour, and Phil replied it was a Paiste, and he said "even though I endorse Sabian, I still use bits and pieces from other companies".

I'm sure Sabian was none to pleased to read that, but what are they going to do? It's Phil Collins.
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  #9  
Old 02-13-2015, 07:06 AM
davidbehrens3.14 davidbehrens3.14 is offline
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Default Re: Endorsement information

Quote:
Originally Posted by masonni View Post
Most deals are exclusive, though hardware Vs. Drums can be an exception. You will occasionally see someone who plays Ludwig, but has a deal with DW for pedals or hardware. Ideally most companies want you to use ALL of their brands offerings.

So, short form is it "can" be okay to endorse Tama and have a deal using a Pork Pie throne. Tama would probably prefer you use their throne, but might be cool and not pressure you.

With Snare drums, most companies know that drummers, especially session guys, use a variety of sounds. Again, ideally they want you using their brand, but may not through a fit as long as your not out promoting another brand.

I endorse Yamaha Drums, but I use DW pedals & a variety of snares. Yamaha doesn't have a problem with this, because I'm not out promoting the fact that I use another brands gear. Most of my non-Yamaha snares have had the badge removed so no other company logo is present, and when I appear in a music video or on TV I only use Yamaha gear.
Thanks for that info.

MORE IMPORTANTLY: Not that it's your fault, but I was super bummed when I saw that you were a drummer named Nick Mason, and then discovered that you weren't the one from Pink Floyd. I'd recommend doing what David Bowie did, and changing your name to avoid future confusion. Best of luck!
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Old 02-13-2015, 07:09 AM
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Default Re: Endorsement information

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidbehrens3.14 View Post
Thanks for that info.

MORE IMPORTANTLY: Not that it's your fault, but I was super bummed when I saw that you were a drummer named Nick Mason, and then discovered that you weren't the one from Pink Floyd. I'd recommend doing what David Bowie did, and changing your name to avoid future confusion. Best of luck!
I think you're letting him off a bit lightly there.

Who else's fault could it possibly be?

That's the trouble...nobody wants to take responsibility for anything these days.
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  #11  
Old 02-13-2015, 11:25 AM
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Default Re: Endorsement information

And for gear nerds endorsement deals make it infinitely harder to find out what gear was used on a particular recording!
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  #12  
Old 02-13-2015, 11:52 AM
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Default Re: Endorsement information

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diet Kirk View Post
And for gear nerds endorsement deals make it infinitely harder to find out what gear was used on a particular recording!
Hahaha, ain't that the truth!
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  #13  
Old 02-13-2015, 01:05 PM
mpthomson mpthomson is offline
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Default Re: Endorsement information

Quote:
Originally Posted by masonni View Post
Most deals are exclusive, though hardware Vs. Drums can be an exception. You will occasionally see someone who plays Ludwig, but has a deal with DW for pedals or hardware. Ideally most companies want you to use ALL of their brands offerings.

So, short form is it "can" be okay to endorse Tama and have a deal using a Pork Pie throne. Tama would probably prefer you use their throne, but might be cool and not pressure you.

With Snare drums, most companies know that drummers, especially session guys, use a variety of sounds. Again, ideally they want you using their brand, but may not through a fit as long as your not out promoting another brand.

I endorse Yamaha Drums, but I use DW pedals & a variety of snares. Yamaha doesn't have a problem with this, because I'm not out promoting the fact that I use another brands gear. Most of my non-Yamaha snares have had the badge removed so no other company logo is present, and when I appear in a music video or on TV I only use Yamaha gear.
Also depends on whether the deal is an 'in public' deal or not. Many top drummers don't use their endorsement gear in the studio. Examples that spring to mind are;

1. Chad Smith and snare drums (used Brady and Montineri drums for recordings in the past)
2. Lars Ulrich - the Black Album is recorded on a bitsa Gretsch kit with Tama snares
3. Vinnie Colaiuta - used Gretsch kits in the as well as Yamhas in studio throughout his time with Yamaha
4. Jeff Porcaro (I think) had a kit made that was all Pearl fittings but not Pearl shells. Can't remember whether they were Gretsch or Blaemire fibreglass shells.
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  #14  
Old 02-13-2015, 01:13 PM
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mikyok mikyok is offline
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Default Re: Endorsement information

Surely for recording any drummer would use whatever sounded best regardless of brand endorsement. Surely an endorsement wouldn't cover the studio. Think of how much equipment guys like Jeff Porcaro/Vinnie/Gadd/Weckl to name a few must have been given by drum and cymbal companies trying to get them to endorse as well as what they have in storage.

The bit I get confused with re: endorsements is why drummers take kits on tour you can't buy (which are made by the big companies), they are totally one off kits. I thought the idea of an endorsement was to sell the product for the company by using things you could go and buy. The best example would be the Ringo Black Oyster Ludwig which was available to buy at the time and made Ludwig a small fortune and still does today.

I'd love a head/stick endorsement just to save cash, for a drum endorsement I'd like a custom drum builder, the quality is second to none and people could get the same specs/finish made if they liked it. I remember when someone tried to get a copy of my Richmo from Alan Gilby, I wasn't endorsed but got it from an endorsee who hadn't told him he'd sold it.....whoops!
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  #15  
Old 02-13-2015, 01:21 PM
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Default Re: Endorsement information

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpthomson View Post
Also depends on whether the deal is an 'in public' deal or not. Many top drummers don't use their endorsement gear in the studio.
It's not just top drummers either. Essentially, manufacturers only care about what is promoted or prominently seen in public. They've learn't to let go of what happens behind the scenes. So long as they're credited for stuff, they're happy. I've lost count of the number of sessions we've supplied various drums for (& not just snares) that have been credited to other brands, & we're far from alone in that. Heck, my friend Martin at DTS makes a living from providing studio snares to sponsored artists. He has a collection that would make the classic/vintage guys here weep! :)
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  #16  
Old 02-13-2015, 02:53 PM
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bermuda bermuda is offline
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Default Re: Endorsement information

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikyok View Post
The bit I get confused with re: endorsements is why drummers take kits on tour you can't buy (which are made by the big companies), they are totally one off kits. I thought the idea of an endorsement was to sell the product for the company by using things you could go and buy.
Yes and no. The endorser's primary value is in the connection of their name with the company, not necessarily a specific product. If there's a signature product, there is an expectation that the drummer actually uses it, but that's not always the case either. Again, the artist's name is more important than the specific gear they use.

I'm sort of a soft example of this with my current touring kit. Since 2011, I've been using a Keystone Guitar Center exclusive kit - only 100 made in a specific finish - and Ludwig made an additional tom for me in that wrap. Technically, my kit is one-of-a-kind, although ordering a Keystone kit in those sizes (and a similar wrap) is no problem. But my exact kit? No.

As AMEX says, membership has its privileges. :)

Bermuda
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