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  #1  
Old 02-08-2015, 07:44 PM
StaggerLee StaggerLee is offline
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Default end of guitar centre?

http://www.ericgarland.co/2015/02/03/end-guitar-center/

I may be english and it doesnt concern me much but i hope they go and give birth to more independent drum shops.

(feeling REAL guilty as i love thomann haha)
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  #2  
Old 02-08-2015, 08:13 PM
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Default Re: end of guitar centre?

In my neck of the woods, Sam Ash is another big box and only about a mile away from GC. I'm sure they will be celebrating if this is true or turns out to come to fruition.
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  #3  
Old 02-08-2015, 08:17 PM
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Default Re: end of guitar centre?

Not so fast kemosahbee, a little well placed/timed dysfunction can be functionable to a big corp.
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Old 02-08-2015, 08:46 PM
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Default Re: end of guitar centre?

In Phoenix, Arizona we have 4 Guitar Centers within a 30 mile radius. And they are all right next to a freeway.

I'm not complaining because the more stores, the better it is for me. But I think they are competing against each other.

.
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  #5  
Old 02-08-2015, 08:54 PM
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Default Re: end of guitar centre?

I think "end of guitar center" is a bit histrionic, but online retail has definitely changed the game since the 90's and that can't be ignored. Staples is another example, and another Bain Capital investment.
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Old 02-08-2015, 09:03 PM
JohnPloughman JohnPloughman is offline
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Default Re: end of guitar centre?

Phoenix has way too many guitar centers. I have to drive 40 miles for one and I live in a city of 300,000.
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  #7  
Old 02-08-2015, 09:05 PM
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Default Re: end of guitar centre?

I don't know all the details, but Bain bought GC in 2007.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/...22972720070627
Supposedly, they dumped pre-existing debt onto GC, and the rumors have been going on since then.

Adding fuel to the fire, Ares jumped in, while Bain retained partial ownership in April of 2014:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014...79170159872750
Rumors have been heavier since then.

It's my (limited) understanding that GC is actually doing OK, but is struggling from debt that the stores themself didn't produce.
Take that with a grain of salt though - LOL

I was surprised and disappointed when the local Mars Music store folded.
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  #8  
Old 02-08-2015, 09:50 PM
drum4fun27302 drum4fun27302 is offline
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Default Re: end of guitar centre?

From what I have read here and there , it looks like it is going down a slope. Not sure about the % of the incline though.
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  #9  
Old 02-08-2015, 09:53 PM
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Default Re: end of guitar centre?

I knew Eric in high-school. Bright guy.

While I agree with much of the article, it reads as being a bit sensationalist. I think his overall conclusion is correct though.

Big Box is dying. The ShowRoom is born.
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  #10  
Old 02-08-2015, 10:09 PM
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Default Re: end of guitar centre?

Given Guitar Center's massive debt to Fender at the moment and Fender making noises about opening their own retail outlets, I smell a takeover. Fender may as well take over Guitar Center and recoup some of the payments.
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  #11  
Old 02-08-2015, 11:59 PM
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Default Re: end of guitar centre?

Best place for drum anything in Arizona, is Arizona Drum Shop. Ron the owner just now expanding to triple the current size and he's doing very well. Knows everything about drums or will have an answer for you while you're in the store. Not like GC where the guy in drums may be a guitarist that has no clue about drums.
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  #12  
Old 02-09-2015, 01:01 AM
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Default Re: end of guitar centre?

I have mixed feelings about this one if it is true. I've heard many say GC has been dying a slow death for years though.

Yes, I get annoyed sometimes at the guy working the counter in the drum room. He may know a lot about drums or he may not. It all depends on who is there at the time. He may be some guitar player assigned to the room to just ring up sales and know absolutely nothing about drums.

Their 2 week hold policy on items they just bought and put on the floor is nonsense. And around here they HAVE forced out the mom and pop shops in the area and a lot of pawn shops can't beat their prices.

But where I live in Fort Worth, Texas, they are about 5 minutes away and they do have the best selections of drum and equipment around. I want to check the cymbals out for myself and maybe play a drum if I am interested in buying. They have recently they have increased the number and kinds of sticks and drumheads they have available to sell so it's convenient.
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  #13  
Old 02-09-2015, 07:07 AM
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Default Re: end of guitar centre?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildbill View Post
It's my (limited) understanding that GC is actually doing OK, but is struggling from debt that the stores themself didn't produce.
Take that with a grain of salt though - LOL
^ This is true.

GC was a publicly traded company. Bain bought up all the stock and took it private, but used debt to pay for that stock purchase. And now GC as a corporation is dying a slow death from the weight of all the debt the stores themselves never produced.

I have a hard time seeing GC actually going under, because the problems are more in the way the company is structured than it's ability to function.

And there is always the chance GC goes public again, which would pay off much of the debt. It is interesting than when I interviewed for an accounting position there some time back, they wanted someone who was familiar with the Sabrbanes-Oxley act (which I was). A company only needs people who know the Sarbanes-Oxley act if they are publicly traded, because the Sabranes-Oxely act does not apply to privately held corporations.

But then again, look what happened to Circuit City and KB Toys.
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  #14  
Old 02-10-2015, 05:32 AM
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Default Re: end of guitar centre?

[quote=DrumEatDrum;1326732 I have a hard time seeing GC actually going under, because the problems are more in the way the company is structured than it's ability to function. [/QUOTE]


Yes, the OP's article correctly concentrates on GC's inability to pay it's debt. However IMO, even if it were financially possible to pay the debt, poor business management will probably kill any chance of survival. Case in point, the Northside Indianapolis GC which I, as a consumer, find it to be old, beat up and dirty. Kids with no money beat the snot out of the "new "retail equipment and the noise is insufferable. Everything on the floor looks well used. I've tried to shop there but usually end up leaving the store after conversing with inexperienced sales kids and no one cares or even asks why. Maybe this is just one badly run store. Unfortunately I think there are more just like this and that will ultimately kill GC.

So, again, IMO, GC's problems aren't purely financial. While they say there is nothing that money can't fix, there are exceptions. When the Titanic was going down all the money in the world could not save it from sinking, because at that point, it's problems weren't financial.
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  #15  
Old 02-10-2015, 05:55 AM
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Default Re: end of guitar centre?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyking View Post
Yes, the OP's article correctly concentrates on GC's inability to pay it's debt. However IMO, even if it were financially possible to pay the debt, poor business management will probably kill any chance of survival. Case in point, the Northside Indianapolis GC which I, as a consumer, find it to be old, beat up and dirty. Kids with no money beat the snot out of the "new "retail equipment and the noise is insufferable. Everything on the floor looks well used. I've tried to shop there but usually end up leaving the store after conversing with inexperienced sales kids and no one cares or even asks why. Maybe this is just one badly run store. Unfortunately I think there are more just like this and that will ultimately kill GC.

So, again, IMO, GC's problems aren't purely financial. While they say there is nothing that money can't fix, there are exceptions. When the Titanic was going down all the money in the world could not save it from sinking, because at that point, it's problems weren't financial.
Yeah, but that's how GC has always been, even way back in the 80's when it was just a few locations in California.

Much like Walmart, it has not only thrived, but grown at incredible proportions despite the fact nearly everyone says they don't like shopping there. lol.
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  #16  
Old 02-10-2015, 06:23 AM
davidbehrens3.14 davidbehrens3.14 is offline
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Default Re: end of guitar centre?

Please. The article was a post-industrialist, anti-capitalist crock centered around the author's economically uninformed notion that corporate restructuring destroyed profit margins for franchised stores. The author didn't mention Factors of Production trends, recent vendor dealings, or most importantly, the real cause of GC's recent deficits, which is the obvious alternatives online. Though GC has online shopping, there is usually an opportunity cost of eBay or some such retailer. Physical sales are generally going to remain the focus of GC, and will remain strong in comparison to competitors, who are weaker in terms of this "sunset industry." GC may go permanently under someday, but are supported in multiple ways and face no imminent extinction.

P.S. Just wanted to get my foot in the door and mention that here in 'MURICA we say Guitar Center, and you silly Europeans will one day see the error in your silly little 'r before e' spellings. USA USA USA
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  #17  
Old 02-10-2015, 06:29 AM
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Default Re: end of guitar centre?

True that Bain has been the bane of the chain. I know the guy who used to manage the guitar department for most of the West Coast. He now works for a small independent doing mostly on-line buying and selling but some in-store stuff. Much happier being away from the Bain schmucks.
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  #18  
Old 02-10-2015, 07:16 AM
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Default Re: end of guitar centre?

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Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum View Post

Much like Walmart, it has not only thrived, but grown at incredible proportions despite the fact nearly everyone says they don't like shopping there. lol.
It's like the Spam of the business world. Everybody says they don't eat it, yet it exists ;)
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  #19  
Old 02-10-2015, 07:24 AM
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Default Re: end of guitar centre?

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidbehrens3.14 View Post
Please. The article was a post-industrialist, anti-capitalist crock centered around the author's economically uninformed notion that corporate restructuring destroyed profit margins for franchised stores. The author didn't mention Factors of Production trends, recent vendor dealings, or most importantly, the real cause of GC's recent deficits, which is the obvious alternatives online. Though GC has online shopping, there is usually an opportunity cost of eBay or some such retailer. Physical sales are generally going to remain the focus of GC, and will remain strong in comparison to competitors, who are weaker in terms of this "sunset industry." GC may go permanently under someday, but are supported in multiple ways and face no imminent extinction.

P.S. Just wanted to get my foot in the door and mention that here in 'MURICA we say Guitar Center, and you silly Europeans will one day see the error in your silly little 'r before e' spellings. USA USA USA
+1. The Sky Is Not Falling.
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  #20  
Old 02-10-2015, 09:23 AM
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Default Re: end of guitar centre?

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Originally Posted by davidbehrens3.14 View Post
and you silly Europeans will one day see the error in your silly little 'r before e' spellings. USA USA USA
Twice silly eh? The language you choose to bastardise is called what exactly? ;) ;) ;)
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  #21  
Old 02-10-2015, 01:49 PM
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Default Re: end of guitar centre?

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Originally Posted by newoldie View Post
+1. The Sky Is Not Falling.
Is too!!!! This is from Forbes. As read to the mournful sound of AC/DC's "Hells Bells" ;)

Investing 12/03/2014 @ 8:31AM 4,315 views
Distressed Debt: Chassix, Connacher, Guitar Center Join LCD's Restructuring Watchlist
Matthew Fuller , Contributor
Comment Now
Follow Comments
Chassix, Connacher Oil and Gas, and Guitar Center Guitar Center this week joined LCD’s Restructuring Watchlist, which tracks companies with recent credit defaults or downgrades into junk territory, issuers with debt trading at deeply distressed levels, as well as those that have recently hired restructuring advisers or entered into creditor negotiations.
Guitar Center, a retailer of music products in the US, faces an uphill battle as comparable same-store sales are down and the company struggles to compete with online providers. A bond offering in March is part of a broad recapitalization effort. On Nov. 19, ahead of an earnings call, the company’s CEO resigned and a new CEO was appointed.
The aforementioned bonds inched up, but the distressed securities level lands the company on LCD’s Watchlist.
The complete and updated version of LCD’s Restructuring Watchlist is printed below.
– Matt Fuller
Attached Images
  
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  #22  
Old 02-10-2015, 02:46 PM
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Default Re: end of guitar centre?

I hope they all shut down.... Sams Ass as well

I prefer the days when everyone went to the hardware store where the owner knew your name and not Home Depot
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Old 02-10-2015, 03:21 PM
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Default Re: end of guitar centre?

"I hope they all shut down.... Sams Ass as well

I prefer the days when everyone went to the hardware store where the owner knew your name and not Home Depot."

I'm old enough to remember those days. I have to admit I like my local hardware store. I also like HD and Lowes. I live at Lowes. As far as Guitar Center, I stopped going years ago. I've rarely ever had a good experience in one, regardless of which state it's been in. Cold as ice. Here in TX the ones I've been in just look like dives inside and the help is basically non-existent. I guess if you know what you want, get it and check out, it works for people.

Odd that their demise is trumpeted when I just heard a new one is being built in the town I'm currently in, Denton, TX. If that is true I feel bad for the local music stores, and the drum shop, in particular.
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  #24  
Old 02-10-2015, 04:49 PM
KamaK KamaK is offline
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Default Re: end of guitar centre?

OMFG, I just watched the "Gates of hell" video accompanying the article...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIgiYvis3OY

That's beautiful.
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  #25  
Old 02-10-2015, 05:47 PM
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Default Re: end of guitar centre?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyking View Post
Is too!!!! This is from Forbes. As read to the mournful sound of AC/DC's "Hells Bells" ;)

Investing 12/03/2014 @ 8:31AM 4,315 views
Distressed Debt: Chassix, Connacher, Guitar Center Join LCD's Restructuring Watchlist
Matthew Fuller , Contributor
Comment Now
Follow Comments
Chassix, Connacher Oil and Gas, and Guitar Center Guitar Center this week joined LCD’s Restructuring Watchlist, which tracks companies with recent credit defaults or downgrades into junk territory, issuers with debt trading at deeply distressed levels, as well as those that have recently hired restructuring advisers or entered into creditor negotiations.
Guitar Center, a retailer of music products in the US, faces an uphill battle as comparable same-store sales are down and the company struggles to compete with online providers. A bond offering in March is part of a broad recapitalization effort. On Nov. 19, ahead of an earnings call, the company’s CEO resigned and a new CEO was appointed.
The aforementioned bonds inched up, but the distressed securities level lands the company on LCD’s Watchlist.
The complete and updated version of LCD’s Restructuring Watchlist is printed below.
– Matt Fuller
From 12/9/15- CFO explanation why the stores won't close.
http://www.musicincmag.com/News/2014...141217_GC.html
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  #26  
Old 02-10-2015, 07:00 PM
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Default Re: end of guitar centre?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoIsTony? View Post
I hope they all shut down.... Sams Ass as well

I prefer the days when everyone went to the hardware store where the owner knew your name and not Home Depot
Totally agree man. The GC near us (Somerville Circle) is the worst of them all.

Speaking of Hardware Stores, do you go to Warrenville Paint & HW on Mountain Blvd.? Love that place, also, I go to Malanga's Farm, Bardy's Farm for food, small local pharmacy in Martinsville and etc. - all small local businesses (BTW - Steve Maxwell's is around the corner from where I work in NYC)

I think if more people would just take the time to seek out local businesses and stick with them, in the long term, they will save the money they think they are saving with these horrific conglomerates.
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Old 02-10-2015, 07:37 PM
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Default Re: end of guitar centre?

I really like to frequent locally owned businesses as much as possible. But I have had good experiences at the local GC at least so far. I went to a local music store here early on and was not treated all that well. Also got some advice that I ended up realizing was not good advice. Have gone to another local store and have had great results. The problem with this one is the lack of inventory on used equipment. GC really is a good source for used. I think it is hard to paint every situation with a broad brush.
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Old 02-10-2015, 07:47 PM
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Default Re: end of guitar centre?

I like my local GC. I don't care for the middle school kids in there thrashing gear but the people that work there are knowledgeable and very helpful. Same with my local Sam's Ass. We can't all shop at pricey boutique NY stores. Every time I try to shop at my local independent owned music store I have to deal with the ass of an owner and am promptly reminded why I don't go there.

There are some great shops on the East Valley but they're all closed on Sundays when I'm on that part of town.
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  #29  
Old 02-10-2015, 07:52 PM
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Default Re: end of guitar centre?

Quote:
Originally Posted by newoldie View Post
From 12/9/15- CFO explanation why the stores won't close.
http://www.musicincmag.com/News/2014...141217_GC.html
Quote:
we have more than 370 stores that are generating cash flow, there is no way in a million years that a bank or bankruptcy court is going to shut the business down.
And this is why GC won't be going anywhere anytime soon.

They may have to re-structure. There may be MORE layoffs at the corporate level. They may have to go through the courts to get debt relief. But they won't get shut down, even if they file for bankruptcy.
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Old 02-10-2015, 08:01 PM
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Default Re: end of guitar centre?

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I have mixed feelings about this one if it is true. I've heard many say GC has been dying a slow death for years though.

Yes, I get annoyed sometimes at the guy working the counter in the drum room. He may know a lot about drums or he may not. It all depends on who is there at the time. He may be some guitar player assigned to the room to just ring up sales and know absolutely nothing about drums.

Their 2 week hold policy on items they just bought and put on the floor is nonsense. And around here they HAVE forced out the mom and pop shops in the area and a lot of pawn shops can't beat their prices.

But where I live in Fort Worth, Texas, they are about 5 minutes away and they do have the best selections of drum and equipment around. I want to check the cymbals out for myself and maybe play a drum if I am interested in buying. They have recently they have increased the number and kinds of sticks and drumheads they have available to sell so it's convenient.
Typically there's a lul on some days where a guitar or accessories guy is covering the drum department. Drum guy has to go get lunch after all. They do their best.

And that's actually a law in my city. I've had so many people climb up my a%% about it. In my store its... I think 30 days? But it differs state to state. The pawn shops in my area follow it too. It gives the police ample time to investigate thefts.
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  #31  
Old 02-10-2015, 08:20 PM
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Default Re: end of guitar centre?

Typically there's a lul on some days where a guitar or accessories guy is covering the drum department. Drum guy has to go get lunch after all. They do their best

Most always I go to GC late afternoons on weekends or early evenings during the weekdays. Not really around lunch time. But I see your point. Could be short handed that day, etc. It's odd that seems to happening a lot lately.

In Texas there is no shop or pawn shop law that says a shop has to hold an item for any length of time (except guns I believe), so if a pawnbroker buys something and puts it out on the floor to sell that day, I can buy it that day and walk out the store with it that day. If he buys an item and keeps it in the back room inventory for any length of time, it's his business. Whatever rules are in effect governing holding used equipment are the store's or company's rules, not the law. Or so I am told it's that way in Texas.

Regarding GC management or mismanagement, as we say down in the southern neck of the woods, some managers "can't manage a two-hole outhouse in an Exlax factory."

For me, going to GC is always iffy, at best. They may not have what I'm looking for in stock and the sales staff may be inexperienced, but I may get lucky and find exaclty what I need and run into great sales staff. You never know.

It's good that a Music Go Around store is close by. They buy and sell 2nd-hand musical instruments. If you want to sell something, they give you exactly 1/2 of what they can turn around and sell it for. I've bought a snare stand, a drum throne, and several cymbal stands there and have saved a lot of cash. Depending on how "used" it is, they mark the price accordingly. I recently saw a vintage champagne sparkle Slingerland 3 piece kit there (kick, ride tom, and floor) marked $350 in pretty good condition.

I was in there Sunday and was talking with the owner about GC. He chuckled and said he has a lot of GC employees who are his customers. When asked why they come to him since they work for GC, he smiled and said he can give them a better price on used gear than GC. Oh.
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Last edited by rogue_drummer; 02-10-2015 at 08:37 PM.
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  #32  
Old 02-10-2015, 08:41 PM
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Default Re: end of guitar centre?

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Originally Posted by JosephDAqui View Post
Totally agree man. The GC near us (Somerville Circle) is the worst of them all.

Speaking of Hardware Stores, do you go to Warrenville Paint & HW on Mountain Blvd.? Love that place, also, I go to Malanga's Farm, Bardy's Farm for food, small local pharmacy in Martinsville and etc. - all small local businesses (BTW - Steve Maxwell's is around the corner from where I work in NYC)

I think if more people would just take the time to seek out local businesses and stick with them, in the long term, they will save the money they think they are saving with these horrific conglomerates.
yes I frequent Warrenville Hardware.... was there today getting some ice melter
I also frequent Bardy Farms .... they are a blessing in our area

... and yes that GC at the circle is an embarrassment to the history of music stores ... I reluctantly went in for the first time this past Dec. for a last minute Christmas gift for a friend and walked out after probably a minute empty handed shaking my head at the monumental amount of cluelessness the staff collectively displayed ... I'll never return
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Old 02-10-2015, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by WhoIsTony? View Post
yes I frequent Warrenville Hardware.... was there today getting some ice melter
I also frequent Bardy Farms .... they are a blessing in our area

... and yes that GC at the circle is an embarrassment to the history of music stores ... I reluctantly went in for the first time this past Dec. for a last minute Christmas gift for a friend and walked out after probably a minute empty handed shaking my head at the monumental amount of cluelessness the staff collectively displayed ... I'll never return
It makes me wish there was a Steve Maxwell's in Central Jersey. Given the lower operating overhead than NY and Chicago, I think they would do well - there are lots of people who appreciate a quality shop, just this forum alone is proof.

I've yet to have a good GC or Samass experience in NY or NJ, I hate explaining things to salespeople...
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Old 02-10-2015, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newoldie View Post
From 12/9/15- CFO explanation why the stores won't close.
http://www.musicincmag.com/News/2014...141217_GC.html
So you do realize that your evidence of financial bliss and stability is the Chief Financial Officer for Guitar Center???? Ya think he's a bit biased? He doesn't have to paint a truthful picture as they are a private company. They pay him to do one thing, keep it running. One negative word from him could cost him his job and cost the company millions in increased borrowing rates.

GC may indeed make it and for the employees I really hope they do. However, things are not rosy as depicted. And when it comes to what a bankruptcy court might do, never say never. All that said, I hope you are right but I've got that slow death Radio Shack feeling here.
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Old 02-10-2015, 11:07 PM
singing drums singing drums is offline
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Default Re: end of guitar centre?

...lots of complaints about guitar center...perhaps true to a certain extent...

...on the other hands, gc has, imho, played a positive role in a number of ways, whether or not one would agree with every way...to wit: "sessions" series/"drum-off" series/large selection/pricing check/30-day return policy/chance to view-test the full panoply of various musical instruments (including an assortment of percussion items)...

...yes, perhaps uninterested/ill informed staff...but that's what the internet/dw is there for, no?...and would one really pay the freight to have gc hire high quality personnel?...
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Old 02-11-2015, 11:06 AM
drum4fun27302 drum4fun27302 is offline
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Default Re: end of guitar centre?

That guy looks like he says "GC makes 200 mil profit a year" and later "1.6 billion in debts" . If I am correct , not enough money to pay off the debt. Interest must be killing them.
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Old 02-11-2015, 12:47 PM
Sesshoumaru Sesshoumaru is offline
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Default Re: end of guitar centre?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyking View Post
So you do realize that your evidence of financial bliss and stability is the Chief Financial Officer for Guitar Center???? Ya think he's a bit biased? He doesn't have to paint a truthful picture as they are a private company. They pay him to do one thing, keep it running. One negative word from him could cost him his job and cost the company millions in increased borrowing rates.

GC may indeed make it and for the employees I really hope they do. However, things are not rosy as depicted. And when it comes to what a bankruptcy court might do, never say never. All that said, I hope you are right but I've got that slow death Radio Shack feeling here.
^^^This!

I'll never understand the "It cant happen because it hasn't happened yet" even when people are pointing that its currently happening!

Having said that.....I do love my 13 inch OCDP snare!
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Old 02-11-2015, 03:03 PM
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Notbob Notbob is offline
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Default Re: end of guitar centre?

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidbehrens3.14 View Post
Please. The article was a post-industrialist, anti-capitalist crock centered around the author's economically uninformed notion that corporate restructuring destroyed profit margins for franchised stores. .....

P.S. Just wanted to get my foot in the door and mention that here in 'MURICA...

That was some damn good satire right there, intentional or not. Do you also write for the WSJ editorial page? They gots duh best (with the exception of WND).
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