BPM recall ability

Larry

Larry

"Uncle Larry"
So I asked someone I know who is in the music scene in Nashville about drummers down there...I'm not sure if I got this right....but I thought she implied that drummers down there need to have the ability to be able to count off tempos without metronomes. Like I said, it's possible that I misunderstood. Can anyone corroborate this?

If someone asked me to play a money beat at 116 BPM....without a metronome to set...yea IDK. If I went to Julliard, is this part of what they teach you?

Anybody out there have this ability?
 
Not aware that anyone needs to do that, as there's almost always a click in the studio (and also a good portion of the time on the road.)

But recalling a tempo is easy, once you establish what it is, and develop an unbiased method for retrieving it.

I've talked about this - with examples - for years in my clinic.

Select some songs with which you are intimately familiar. Not songs you play, but songs whose recorded versions are embedded in your soul. They can be old or new, although if older, they're probably embedded deeper, more permanently, and more accurately as to tempo (and the key, if you really know your songs!)

Then, determine the bpm.

When you need to call up that song, or its tempo, just 'hear' it in your head. Don't sing, don't tap, don't bob your head, don't play the beat on your thighs, or you'll affect the tempo. Just listen to it play in your head... as if you're hearing it on the radio. Maybe you hear the verse, maybe the chorus, maybe the solo, whatever you're most familiar with. If done correctly, you'll quickly get the tempo, and it will be pretty correct, probably within a few bpm (which is certainly acceptable on the fly and without a metronome!)

I have a personal list of songs at various tempos, and subdividing with triplets gives me some of the in-between tempos. But, whenever tempo is really critical, there's always a 'nome around.

It sounds very conceptual and all, but it's really very simple, and effective.

Bermuda
 
bermuda said:
Not aware that anyone needs to do that, as there's almost always a click in the studio (and also a good portion of the time on the road.)

But recalling a tempo is easy, once you establish what it is, and develop an unbiased method for retrieving it.

I've talked about this - with examples - for years in my clinic.

Select some songs with which you are intimately familiar. Not songs you play, but songs whose recorded versions are embedded in your soul. can be old, or new, but if it's older, it's probably embedded deeper, more permanently, and more accurately as to tempo (and the key, if you're good!)

Determine the bpm.

When you need to call up that song, or its tempo, just 'hear' it in your head. Don't sing, don't tap, don't bob your head, don't play the beat on your thighs, or you'll affect the tempo. Just listen to it play in your head... as if you're hearing it on the radio. Maybe you hear the verse, maybe the chorus, maybe the solo, whatever you're most familiar with. If done correctly, you'll get the tempo within a few bars, and it will be pretty correct, probably within a bpm or two (which is certainly acceptable on the fly and without a metronome!)

I have a list of songs at various tempos, and subdividing with triplets gives me some of the in-between tempos.

It sounds very conceptual and all, but it's really very simple, and effective.

Bermuda
Click to expand...
Bermuda:
Great/practical suggestion! You wouldn't happen to have a list of such songs handy now, would you? :)
 
Bermuda has it right !

A few weeks ago I was struggling with starting songs at certain beats per minute. For instance one of the songs we do is Gel and we do it at 139 bpm. I know the drum part for the song but at a moment’s notice I can’t recall the song nor the bpm.

I’m supposed to count it off whenever they decide to do the song. The guitar starts the song with me on the high hat. He turns around and yells "Gel".

So I found a song I know really well and I write down both song names. I have a small list on a music stand next to my drum set.

It looks like this: Gel – 144 – Guitar/Hi Hat – Satisfaction

Everything I need to know at a glance.


PS. I usually use Beatle and Rolling Stone songs........


.
 
Here's a list that I work from, tempos may not be exact at a specific point during certain songs that were obviously not cut to a click, but they're close enough:

74 - Hotel California
80 - We Will Rock You
98 - Eminence Front
105 - We Can Work It Out
120 - Dim All the Lights
123 - Ringo's solo in The End
125 - Ticket To Ride / Last Dance
139 - Feel Good Inc
141 - Walkie Talkie Man
145-148 - Molly’s Chambers
150 - All the Small Things
180 - Party at the Leper Colony (an Al song I know well.)

As for extrapolating a tempo from one you know, try this. Get the tempo in your head (let's say 1/4 note =120bpm) and add quarter note triplets against it. If you count the 1st and 2nd notes of that triplet as its own tempo, you now have a 50% increase (180bpm.) If you count the 1st and 3rd notes as a tempo, you now have a 33.3% decrease (80bpm.) And obviously you can double or 'halve' a tempo to get double or half the speed.

If worse comes to worse, look at the second hand (or blinking colon) on your watch, phone, or the nearest wall clock, to get 60bpm, and therefore, 120, from which you get 80, which also gives you 160, etc. If you need a tempo like 125, just get to 120, and give it a little push. But, very little... it doesn't take much to increase by just 5 beats over the course of a minute. 115 is the same, except just pull back, very little.

So basically, knowing just a handful of songs really well can help you derive a variety of tempos. Again, these are ballpark, but very close. You would rarely if ever be asked to pull a tempo out of your... umm, hat. And anything that requires an exact tempo will have a click, not rely on a drummer even though he can get within a bpm or two.

Bermuda
 
I was with you Bermuda until I got to "Walkie Talkie Man". What the heck !?

I had to look that one up. Shows how old school I am.


.
 
We'll each have different songs, as long as we know them intimately, that's what counts.

I know a number of other Al songs at specific tempos, because I've played them to a click as nauseum. So while I don't need to count-off the tempo on those, I do know what many of them are if I should ever be asked. :)

Bermuda
 
The nearest I get is by working from seconds. For some reason, I'm very good at counting seconds, so 60 & 120 bpm are easy foundations. I then subdivide to 75, 90, 105, etc - you get the picture. It's as crude as hell, but gets me in the ballpark if I have no other reference. I think Jon's method is better.
 
I remember Joe Morello being able to call out the tempos from just hearing the metronome. This was a constant source of amazement to his students.

Not off of a click but off of one of the old school metronomes.
 
I can relate to what Andy has said. There's one particular (BTW original) song that is in 120 bpm. This helps me to estimate other tempos but it's only a rough guideline. Another way is playing fast doubles - I know how doubles in the 200+ bpm range feel like so when identifying bpm's this works for me to some degree, too.

Bermuda has a cool approach - thanks for the input.
 
I use the "memorize the tempo of songs you know well" trick and I also use Arky's "what do double stroke rolls at 200 bpm feel like" method. Funny how we find our own way to these same weird things sometimes.
 
Jon this is a great trick that I'm ashamed to say never occurred to me.
I can count off a song I know at the right tempo, by singing the song in my head. But to take an arbitrary number like 139 BPM and count it off...I could get it in the ballpark, but that's not nailing it.

Now with Jon's advice, all I have to do is come up with my own list of songs.

GREAT tip Jon. Thank you.
 
8Mile said:
I use the "memorize the tempo of songs you know well" trick and I also use Arky's "what do double stroke rolls at 200 bpm feel like" method. Funny how we find our own way to these same weird things sometimes.
Click to expand...

Using our personal strengths/limits/memory of how we play would seem like an effective way to know what speed a song is, but that ability is affected by the things that also affect our perception of tempo, such as fatigue, anxiety or excitement, effects of alcohol, etc.

So if you know that a song goes as fast as you can play 16ths with one hand, that's great... under completely normal circumstances. You silently play the part on your thigh so that it feels right, and you're good to go, right?

Suppose it's the end of the night and you're tired? Suppose it's the beginning of the night, and you're nervous or excited or have a little extra energy? Suppose that, over time, you become able to play faster? Suppose you have an injury, and can't move your hand that quickly?

For all of those common scenarios, the ability to recall a tempo by first playing it, is undermined. There needs to be a method less susceptible to the physicality of playing, and memory is less likely to be affected (except possibly by alcohol.) Ultimately, if tempo is that critical, a metronome needs to be used, not as a click, but to establish the desired tempo to start a song.

Are tempos really that critical? Some more than others. We all know that some songs seem to sound great in a range of speeds, while others are obviously too slow or too fast. Even if a song is played perfectly, it can easily lose its feel if it strays too far from a working tempo. It can affect the dancers, it can affect the singer, it can affect the other players, and it can affect the drummer, even if they counted it of in the first place!

I had one band where all songs were assigned a tempo, and I used a metronome to get my count for those songs (after which it was my job to hold that tempo.) I loved that system! There was never any doubt as to whether I had counted off too fast or too slow, and we knew that the songs always sounded their best. well, at least in terms of the tempo.

Bermuda
 
Thanks for the great tip, Bermuda.
Very useful in my gigging endeavours.

Neal
 
They need to make a throne with a built in metronome that makes a tactile feeling on your butt that you don't have to hear.
 
great thread. i am actively working on going "off click" for count offs w/ one of my main gigs. as long as i can hear the tune in my head clearly, i should be good...many of these tunes, same arrangement for 2+ years...so some of it is laziness / click-crutch for me.

love the tune / tempo chart Bermuda. remind me i need to memorize the solo to "the end" (123 !). Abe Jr.s live version kills.

also "Get Lucky" is at 116.
 
bermuda said:
Using our personal strengths/limits/memory of how we play would seem like an effective way to know what speed a song is, but that ability is affected by the things that also affect our perception of tempo, such as fatigue, anxiety or excitement, effects of alcohol, etc.

So if you know that a song goes as fast as you can play 16ths with one hand, that's great... under completely normal circumstances. You silently play the part on your thigh so that it feels right, and you're good to go, right?

Suppose it's the end of the night and you're tired? Suppose it's the beginning of the night, and you're nervous or excited or have a little extra energy? Suppose that, over time, you become able to play faster? Suppose you have an injury, and can't move your hand that quickly?

For all of those common scenarios, the ability to recall a tempo by first playing it, is undermined. There needs to be a method less susceptible to the physicality of playing, and memory is less likely to be affected (except possibly by alcohol.) Ultimately, if tempo is that critical, a metronome needs to be used, not as a click, but to establish the desired tempo to start a song.
Click to expand...
Interesting point. I hadn't really thought of it that way, but you're right, how we feel on a particular day is more likely to impact what we can physically do than distort our memory of something.

I've been known to mess up using my memory of a tempo, but usually that's because it's a song I don't know well. There's something about hearing a tune 1,000 times that makes it hard to mess it up.
 
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