hand cramps

Good morning all, I have an issue that I'm hoping maybe someone else has or have had and can weigh in on.

I try to play as often as I can. Whether it's on a practice pad/set, or at church, or my Jazz Workshop, or with the new rock band I'm in. I try to warm up esp for the rock stuff, but I find that I'm getting cramps in between my thumb and index finger on my right hand. so I have to shift the stick over a finger. I seems to do better with smaller sticks or sticks that have a good tacky feel to them. I don't really like stick wraps, but maybe for this I could use them since it's straight head rock. and then leave my jazz and church sticks natural. I'm also thinking that since we're in a small practice room and I'm un-mic'd competing against amps, and PA, that I'm playing to hard to match volume. Any thoughts on a quick setup and tear down so I can use my in-ear's? We practice at rental places so I can't mic up a full set. Maybe a small mixer running two mics to kick and snare, that way I can use the in-ears and control the volume and then back off my hitting?

thank you all in advance.

Super common... The fatigue thing ended for me when I stopped gripping the sticks too tightly, and losing the thumb/index grip. For louder playing, moving to a more middle finger fulcrum, and playing with a looser grip will really help... I also find a lot of players using sticks that are too small, which will hinder volume and can also lead to gripping too tightly...

As somebody who struggled with this for a Looong time i can sympathise.

However now i am cramp free, and the answer was 2 things.

I made sure i was super hydrated and had a banana before a concert.

and before going on i used to warm up for 30 mins and i saw a concert pianist who puts his hands in a bowl of hot water for 5 minutes before going on stage. this alongside and good muscle and hand rub before going on really sorted me out.

good Luck

J

I'm going to take a wild guess here.
You may be holding the stick too far to the rear of the stick.

Hold the stick right in the middle, where the stick balances, equal weight on both sides. The best place to grip the stick when you play is just a little bit to the rear of this balance point. You can hold the stick further back, but be aware, the further back you grip the stick the harder it is to hold on to the stick; and the harder you have to press your index finger and your thumb together to grip the stick.

If you hold the stick more to the rear of the stick, you can get a more whipping motion. However, the whipping motion should be coming from your wrist and arm.
Ideally your fingers should lightly grip and guide the stick, letting the stick do most of the work in hitting the drum.

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I used to get cramp quite badly about a song or two into the set and it would go away a song or two later. I learned to loosen my grip, make sure I was hydrated, and eat a bag of salted peanuts before playing. Nowadays I rarely get cramp and I think it's down more to the looser grip and perhaps the water because the peanuts no longer appear in my pre gig ritual.

Maverick10 said:

I'm getting cramps in between my thumb and index finger on my right hand.

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You need to look at your grip. You're using that tiny muscle in between the two (the one that's cramping) to carry to much of the load of holding and guiding the stick. Chances are you're gripping down on the stick fairly tightly at the fulcrum and closing up the space between your index finger and thumb. When gripping the stick, see if you can open up that space. Furthermore, allow the stick to settle onto your middle finger a bit more so that its carrying the weight of the stick. The index finger and thumb are for keeping the stick going straight up and down. Use your middle finger and back fingers to keep it from falling on the floor.

cornelius said:

Super common... The fatigue thing ended for me when I stopped gripping the sticks too tightly, and losing the thumb/index grip. For louder playing, moving to a more middle finger fulcrum, and playing with a looser grip will really help... I also find a lot of players using sticks that are too small, which will hinder volume and can also lead to gripping too tightly...

Click to expand...

Yes, yes, yes, yes.


...

I suffer from this badly (Used to) Regardless of what sticks you are using "Warming up" is the most important part along with stretching.
I will start to exercise my hands & fingers, thumbs about 2 hours before I play. I find tendon stretching of the thumbs to be very helpful. Lots of finger wriggling as well.
Since doing this I have never suffered with cramp whilst playing.

Thank you all for the replies and tips. I think the water thing and hydration is a bit of it and I need to work on that in general. I try to warm up, but maybe it needs to be a longer warm up and more structured.

The sticks thing is interesting. So from like 98/99 to about 2006 I exclusively used Vater 5B, took a break from really playing while in the Marine Corps and around 2012 came back to playing in a band again. Well it was a metal band and so I start looking into what they used gear wise etc etc and so started me on my stick obsession haha. I seem to try new sticks every month from 5As to 2Bs and everything in between and signature sticks. During that 98/99-2012 time frame I don't remember having cramps going into the first song. Maybe by the end of a practice but never from the get go. so maybe it's the age difference and the need to warm up more. But I don't get these cramps except for the rock band and the practice room volume. So maybe bigger sticks with a better warm up and a more relaxed grip is what's needed for that and then I can use my smaller sticks for the Jazz and Church stuff where volume isn't an issue as much.

I will take a look at my grip again. I thought I was using a pretty lose grip with more focus on my middle fingers and the Mohler technique coming from my wrists and arms to take pressure off my hands. But maybe I'm slipping and not doing that cause I'm going for volume and making my hands to tense.


I appreciate everyone's help.

Jimmy

Very common, but it's still about your grip.

How to solve that?

Everything said so far can be a solution.

Also, for general modern louder playing I'm personally not into index fulcrum at all. I don't really use it myself for anything but press rolls and things that must be done in French grip, but that's really perosnal.

Anyway. It's easier to relax moving the fulcrum further back in the hand.

Also check where you're holding the stick. On your typical Vic stick it should be pretty much right where the flag is.

Yeah I try to keep my fulcrum open and my middle finger holding the stick, but if I'm getting cramps then it's not doing what I need it to do.

I need to work on it.

Jimmy

I've been working on my left hand which has been too german all these years. I've been practicing hard and having the same problem. I recently had a revelation. I rotated my wrist just a few degrees away from my body, making the grip slightly more french. It was a very small adjustment. The pain miraculously went away from the inside of my wrist as the load on my muscles became more evenly spread.

holding the stick toof ar down, using too much thumb in your stoke, not enough wrist are all possible.

Could just be over playing, hitting to hard, or too fast, or for too long will do this.. or more common tensing up.


This used to happen to me at gigs because as much as we would jam or practice, when you get in front of an audience you get excited. Songs would end up a bit faster than I was used too, I'd hit a bit harder, and my hand would cramp.

If your technique is good, I would suggest doing a ton of pad work. I practice at much higher bpm's than I play. I also try doing some practice at high volume/ velocity.

It is always easier to play in your house or on your pad than a gig where you have other instruments, or bad monitors and can't hear yourself well. As soon as that happens you end up hitting harder and cramping.

beyondbetrayal said:

This used to happen to me at gigs because as much as we would jam or practice, when you get in front of an audience you get excited. Songs would end up a bit faster than I was used too, I'd hit a bit harder, and my hand would cramp.

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This is a great point, about tensing up and trying to play louder during a live performance. The excitement can over stress your hands.

And it has happened to me when I try to get more volume out of the drum set. I'll be hitting as hard as I can because the rest of the band is so loud.
And a couple of times I even developed blisters while playing too hard.

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Maverick10 said:

Yeah I try to keep my fulcrum open and my middle finger holding the stick, but if I'm getting cramps then it's not doing what I need it to do.

I need to work on it.

Jimmy

Click to expand...

That might be how you're practicing, but is that how you're playing?

Muscle cramping/pain is due to the muscle having to fire a lot and becoming incapable of continuing to do so. That particular muscle usually gets overused due to squeezing the stick tightly, as that's what it's designed to do - i.e. squeeze your thumb toward your index finger. The chances that your electrolyte and hydration levels are so low, so frequently, as to create cramping on a regular basis are vanishingly low. You have a technique problem. Perhaps you need to work with a qualified teacher to get things sorted out.

Hollywood Jim said:

This is a great point, about tensing up and trying to play louder during a live performance. The excitement can over stress your hands.

And it has happened to me when I try to get more volume out of the drum set. I'll be hitting as hard as I can because the rest of the band is so loud.
And a couple of times I even developed blisters while playing too hard.

.

Click to expand...

I can't tell you how many times at a gig I'd cramp up.. have a hard time with a fill or something I have done a million times, and next band jam be 100% perfect.

You watch a video of the gig and think. WOW that's fast. or man I'm hitting hard there.

Stage volume vs practice room is totally different, even sound reflections your not used to. I know the sounds in my jam spot.. my drums sound different in every room I play.

Good monitoring will help this if you get an IEM setup, but I just tell myself before every song,,, relax,, don't hit too hard and slow down.

When your playing double kick and blasts at 230/240 for a long stretch (at my most upper speeds possible) even going up a few BPM live makes your life VERY difficult. hahaha

not to mention my guitar players get upset because their riffs are very tough... We are looking at IEM's and a click track actually.

Hey all, just wanted to give you an update. On Monday, I went up to church to practice on a real drumset and not just practice pads. I was able to see where things might have been breaking down. I also found out that it's a bit of endurance issue. I haven't played this aggressive or long since my last band a year or two ago and with the church stuff it's been like 3-4 songs of stand Christian rock. Also I seem to hold my sticks too far back, basically the stick sitting on the ring finger and that's causing me to have to grip tighter with my thumb and index. It seems to happen more with Vater sticks and a couple of Promarks, but not as often with Vic's. I use to use Vater's all the time and either my youthful hands never had cramps because I was playing everyday or what. So I tried out almost every stick in the bag (three bags worth), and found the Vic Extreme 5B to be a good candidate. The extra half inch puts the stick where I like it in regards to playing surfaces and also in my hand without having to hold it at the butt end. Also the lacquer they use is a little more tacky and helps against slippage. I also got some PM 747's which are smaller in diameter but a little longer than the typical drumstick. I have practice tonight and plan on trying these two models and a couple other ones that I missed Monday night, and with a better warm up, and a more relaxed grip so we'll see how it goes.

I also plan on getting Stick Control out and getting that going again focusing on my grip and how I hold the sticks.

Thanks for the tips.

Jimmy

Suffer from this if I don't warm up or go to fast before I'm warmed up so end up overgripping which is the main culprit.

A good warm up is worth its weight in gold. 15-20 mins just getting your hands fast and loose.

I play open handed so my arms and wrists do the majority of the big strokes, you need your fingers for ghosting and buzzing. Also playing open handed lets the stick do a lot of the work.

I'd advise not going for grippy sticks unless you really like blisters. I play with a long stick that's really balanced (Pellwood). If I have to do a tickling gig I drop to 3A. Any quieter the Gadd black sticks come out.

some great suggestions here.

Normally on a full days practice session I would be cramping and aching, however I started using much heavier sticks to let them do the work and it sorted my cramping issue instantly.

I practice with vater 5As or fusion sticks or sometimes a pro mark 7a. It helps me improve my technique and then when using 2Bs, they seems to almost play themselves because they fit into my fat hands much better.

I also stretch out my hamstrings, calfs, achilles, shoulders, back, neck and hips.

Cocaine works pretty well too, you just feel the pain in the morning :-D
^
not a serious suggestion