Versatility or One Trick Pony

Retrovertigo

Senior Member
Is it better to be pretty good at a bunch of styles of really good at just one. At first glance it seems that all the guys who have made actual musical statements have been of the latter.

for example: Chad Smith is great at what he does. i love his playing. but i really dont think he would be half as exciting in a jazz combo or playing some authentic latin grooves.

Tony Williams is rediculously good. Obscenely so. but i dont want to hear him play with Built to Spill or Slayer. (maybe i do actually) but Dave Lombardo is clearly a much better fit.

Vinnie, Weckle, Bozzio etc. have advanced the realm of possibilities in a serious way but what have they contributed to other than things that just melt your brain. is the purpose of art to melt your brain or to reach into you soul?

Obviously studying many styles helps you understand what you're doing but there is a limitation to that. In that same line of thinking studying anything increases your understanding and abilities.

P.S. I thought of this after I listened to Stanton Moore with Corroson of Conformity. I thought that it was cool but Des Kensel (High on Fire) or Dale Crover (The Melvins) would have really killed on that album.
 
I think the best is a mainly one trick pony that also has a bit of versatility.

I focus on one main style of music (rock), but I also listen to drummers (or in the case of electronic music, drum machines) that play other styles of music to get ideas for my playing.
 
I think it all depends on your goals as a person and as a musician. If you only want to do one genre, then you might not need to learn anything beyond that. If you play professionally in one genre and make enough that way, there may be no financial pressure to learn more. If you are creatively happy playing one style, that's okay too. Many people need and want to learn different styles. Compared to more complex melodic instruments like the violin or piano, picking up new styles on drums is easier so I think that's why you find drummers who are into many different styles.

Of course, you could still do one style for the rest of your life but learn other styles for enjoyment or to broaden your horizons and maybe even improve what you do already. That's a personal choice.

For a real stretch, you could try to learn some hand percussion, but again, many people wouldn't' find that necessary.
 
I also play mostly rock-esque styles of music, but I love listening to some nice jazz. While I could only wish to play jazz, I to tend to incorporate some funky triplet fills n' beats into what I do.

My thoughts?
Focus on one thing at a time, but use influences from all over as much as you like.
 
i suppose the whole thing is so personal that any "conclusions" would be meaningless.

i really felt like "Art" needed to have a commitment to some ideal. In this case i assumed, incorrectly, that it was about being sure of exactly what context you are playing in and trying to do only that. But of course there is so much more to it. what you aim to accomplish is the real deciding factor. no matter if it is being the fastest guy in town, the slowest (try playing whole notes at 50bpm) or trying to fulfill your desire to play funk in one band and country and western in another. i always rush to paint things as black and white when really nothing ever is.

as i said, i only recently started to think of this and I am susceptible to scattered thoughts and changing my mind.
 
Tony Williams

From his stint with Miles Davis....to his "Lifetime" stint with Allan Holdsworth....to his Arcana duties with Bill Laswell. I would not say a "one trick pony show".

Bozzio...melt your brain or to reach into you soul?

A stint with Zappa....a run with Missing Persons......a dash with Jeff Beck.....U.K.'s "Danger Money" album.....and the two Bozzio/Levin/Stevens albums. Quite a mix there, as well, in my opinion.
 
I have a hard time nailing down what Carter Beauford's style is considered. Is it Versatility Or One Trick Pony?
 
Well if you want to work, you know, make a living as a professional musician you're just going to have to be conversant in many genres, or else you won't get the calls. However, that doesn't mean that you can't at the same time focus on what it is you want to play, what you want to master or at least get very good at doing.
Being a musician is being able to do it all. Now if you want to concentrate on one thing and become a virtuoso at it then you're getting into a whole other thing. But to work, to make money, you'll have to be able to play pretty much anything and be able to do it in a convincing way.
The job is to make the bandleaders and the producers happy. That's where your money comes from.
 
I think it's important to study as many styles as you can so you can develop YOUR style.

Look at Travis Barker. Everyone thinks of him as this heavy hitting punk rock drummer... but the cat digs jazz and even marching band. He lists latin and jazz as two of his major influences. These influences give him a unique voice with what he does.

It's certainly possible to become a great drummer studying ONLY one genre... but studying as much as you can will expose you to an amazing assortment of ideas. I submit that having all of this at your fingertips can make you a better drummer FASTER, and will also improve your playing in all genres.

When I first started seriously playing in college, I didn't care for jazz and enjoyed really only playing rock. I had a teacher who wouldn't accept that (and the lessons were required for my major), so I got to learn jazz. The idea that the drummer could do more than 2 and 4? It had never even occurred to me, but learning it expanded my world in a serious way. Now, my playing even has a bit of a latin feel from time to time, and I like it. It's uniquely me.

I really feel that a good drummer should be good across the board in any situation... otherwise, you'll run into your own limitations more often than you think. My church just did a great Christmas show on Sunday- I got the call to play guitar and we brought in a 40-something guy from out of town to sit in on drums. He had played with us on the praise team over the summer, and was a SOLID drummer. Fantastic clock and great ideas on style and fills. Well, we played some typical church-y Christmas fare, but we opened and closed with some Trans-Siberian Orchestra stuff. Heavy 80's power rock drumming, right? Well, he couldn't open it up because it wasn't his bag... so he played it just like any vanilla praise and worship tune. We had to spend a long time getting used to such a different approach, especially when us two guitarists were wailing away. We finally found a compromise, but it certainly would have been faster and easier if he was a little bit more versatile.

I guess it just comes down to what you want for yourself. I like to grow as a musician, and for me, that means learning about something new... and doing that often. If you want to develop the best clock, you can do that. If you want to be the best metal drummer with the fastest double bass, rock on. For me, though, versatility is the name of the game.

Ah, but I'm also biased. I play piano, bass, guitar, and percussion professionally (as the calls come), and have sat in with other groups on trumpet, trombone, and even tuba... so I'm naturally a little biased toward versatility. :)
 
Vinnie C with Megadeth???? Bozzio with Korn??? Okay i guess i get that. How 'bout travis barker or Joey Jordison with say... Natalie Cole? it BoGglEsZ tHa MinD
 
if i need someone for a jazz session (and I had tons of cash) i would get Brian Blade, Peter Erskine, etc.. I've heard many "versatile" people such as Peart, Beauford, and Simon Phillips swing pretty hard but if I want authentic, real-deal swing then they wont be getting the call.

These guys have made a name and a living for themselves by being great at a very specific aesthetic. Same goes with most of the names that come to mind. i.e. Chad Smith, Dave Weckl, Tomas Haake, Danny Carey, Kieth Carlock and the list goes on.

I think there's a fear that if you aren't good at playing many styles then you probably won't be playing much. Speaking from experience, I feel bummed when i think that there has been people who felt the need to stifle their own creative voice to satisfy the assumption that they need to be versatile.

If you were given the chance to put together one great jazz album or 60's RnB album or "instert-genre-here" album who would you get and why is that? It would be cool to hear people play out of their normal context but when its on the line like this what are you really going to do? i think an honest response to this speaks volumes about what you really feel the value of versatility is.

But really, if you aren't a huge name drummer, you need to be able to play as much as possible, as convincing as possible in order to keep working and playing the bills.

my brain hurts.
 
I think there's a fear that if you aren't good at playing many styles then you probably won't be playing much. Speaking from experience, I feel bummed when i think that there has been people who felt the need to stifle their own creative voice to satisfy the assumption that they need to be versatile.

I got a call recently to play on a country track. The producer wanted me to play on it, he likes how I play, so I went in and did a couple of takes and that was that. Drove home with a check in my pocket. Now I don't care for country music at all but I'm sure that doing that session didn't cause me any harm.
How is working regularly going to stifle one's own creative voice? The more you play the better you get, right? And bear in mind that just because one plays an instrument doesn't mean that he even has or wants a creative voice. Creativity is not a guarantee that comes with a musical instrument, nor is it a requirement to be a good musician.
No, there's no good argument to be made against being a versatile player. If you have a creative voice then it's up to you to develop that, no matter what else you may have to do in your life to keep working.
 
I was watching GE 2.0 last night, and Tommy Igoe was talking about a time he was auditioning. They asked each drummer to play a military cadence, he was the only one who could do it so he got the job.
 
Versatility is pretty important. See, here's the thing...even the "one trick ponies" that you mentioned...the reason they are famous for the style that they play is that they do it differently than the millions of other drummers who play the same style. And the easiest way to develop that is to learn other styles.

Most people who make a living in music aren't rock (or jazz or whatever) stars. We are guys who manage to bang together a living playing our instrument in situations that we both love and don't love. Jay gave a great example of his country session. My first two national release CDs were Southern Gospel...I don't like Southern Gospel at all. But it paid the bills and opened more doors for me. Retrovertigo says that this idea bums him out, because it stifles creativity, but I disagree. I was playing the drums, so my chops were kept up. I was learning a new style that might inflence how I look at other music. And, most of all, I don't have to sit in an office for 40 hours a week because of sessions like that...meaning that, when all is said and done, I can focus as much as I want on my own music in the time that most other people are stuck working for "the man."

I've said it on here before, and I'll say it again. People always tell me that it's "selling out" to play music that you don't love...but at least I'm playing music, doing the thing I love above all else. Walking into an office where you don't even have a pair of sticks seems far more like "selling out" to me than playing a country song does.

Oh, it also impresses companies that you might want endorsement deals from, or producers or artists that you have never worked with but are up for a job with to have credentials that are all over the place. I got my current rock gig in part because of some of the names of jazz guys I've played with, and they were also very impressed that I marched for the Baltimore Ravens band. They thought all of that was much more impressive than the rock guys I've played with, who they hadn't heard of.
 
I've said it on here before, and I'll say it again. People always tell me that it's "selling out" to play music that you don't love...but at least I'm playing music, doing the thing I love above all else. Walking into an office where you don't even have a pair of sticks seems far more like "selling out" to me than playing a country song does.

I don't particularly like a lot of country or straight pop music that I play sessions for, but I enjoy playing drums, and I can add my flavor and positive energy to any gig I do. I don't consider it selling out. It's called diversification and making a living. If you can't transfer the love of what you do to just about any situation you do it in, then you're in the wrong business, and apparently it's YOU that have sold out. If you're just doing drums as a hobby or on a "weekend warrior" basis, then you can have all of the ideals in the world, but don't waste your time trying to convince full-time professional musicians of them.

[/rant]
 
I don't particularly like a lot of country or straight pop music that I play sessions for, but I enjoy playing drums, and I can add my flavor and positive energy to any gig I do. I don't consider it selling out. It's called diversification and making a living. If you can't transfer the love of what you do to just about any situation you do it in, then you're in the wrong business, and apparently it's YOU that have sold out. If you're just doing drums as a hobby or on a "weekend warrior" basis, then you can have all of the ideals in the world, but don't waste your time trying to convince full-time professional musicians of them.

[/rant]

nice try at righteous indignation GUY. was that directed at me?

i should add that jay norem squared the whole question up with this:
And bear in mind that just because one plays an instrument doesn't mean that he even has or wants a creative voice. Creativity is not a guarantee that comes with a musical instrument, nor is it a requirement to be a good musician.
.

very well put man. also, after reading this i also realized how broad my question was. i asked which was better but i never specified what it was better for. better for having fun? better for creating art? better for making money? better for getting laid? well i guess i meant "better for creating art" but as i said, jay summed the whole thing up for me.
 
Its really a very simple concept. The more stuff you can play the more you going to work. You can get really good at plenty of styles if you just put the time in. Guys that can play jazz, rock, fusion, reagee, latin, swing and many other styles work way more than one trick ponies do. But not in the case if the one trick pony happens to be in a national act and that's his or her thing. dig? I say be as good as you can be in many different styles of music, but this also very much depends on your personal goals as a drummer.

best of luck

Joe
 
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