Do you hurt or cramp or something unfortunate when you play? Maybe I can help...

Jeremy

Senior Member
Hi Drummerworld,

Man I haven't been on this site for a long time. Cool to be back reading some of the posts.

Anyway, back in 2009 I was in music college in Boston and was having a technique issue with my left hand that I couldn't get sorted. Started having some loss of motor control in my pinky, and was advised to see a doctor. He told me I had permanent damage to my ulnar nerve, and should never play drums or use a computer again in my life. I kept playing and instead started studying everything I could, including traditional physical therapy, trigger point therapy, Alexander Technique, Feldenkrais, joint and muscle mobility, nutrition, yoga, pilates, Egoscue's stuff, and have actually spent the better part of the last year teaching musicians and yoga people to heal themselves.

Figured I could hop on to this forum and maybe give some advice that could help the drummerworld community feel better and play without pain.

So if you've got a question or a problem that's bugging you, let me know, and hopefully I can help out!
 
Started having some loss of motor control in my pinky, and was advised to see a doctor. He told me I had permanent damage to my ulnar nerve, and should never play drums or use a computer again in my life.

why are the doctors always WRONG ?
 
How to minimize hunching and raising the hi hat shoulder?
 
Haha I hear you double_G! But doctors aren't always wrong. His advice would have worked and was correct. "Hey, you're doing damage to yourself when you do these things. Stop doing them." That's sound medicine, we musicians are just a stubborn people! Luckily there are a lot of smart stubborn people who wrote things that helped me get better.



Dre25, my first step would be to make sure you are capable of not hunching that shoulder when just standing or sitting. If your shoulder is stuck, take a picture and post it so I can see. Assuming you have range of motion there, I'd take some time and play a little with your top priority being not hunching and raising that shoulder. Doesn't matter what you play or how you sound, just make that shoulder feel good. Usually a simple 1 bar patter is best, but work with playing whatever it is that gives you problems with the shoulder. If you need to move things around to make that possible, do it. If you don't sound as good as usual, then you just have to practice with this new technique.
 
Extremely sore hip flexors after lots of double kick. How do I stretch them? Please keep in mind I tore my ACL 20 years ago, so the stretch(es) can't be too twisty or I wont be able to do them.

BTW this isn't a technique or posture issue with me, its a getting old issue.
 
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Alexander Technique did a lot to my posture. I can have long sessions now without feeling any back problem.

I highly recommend drummers to have some alexander technique lessons. My teacher here in London corrects my posture while I'm playing drums, which is great!
 
Thanks Jeremy. It was a bit of a general question really, I have filmed myself a bit lately and I notice there are times when I hunch, but I have setup a mirror and am consciously not hunching as much. I think I do it so I can "hear better"' which is slightly ridiculous.

If I can double up: I had an idea today... let's say you have a slight pain or cramp from playing alot... I know the consensus is STOP PLAYING UNTIL PAIN SUBSIDES, but do you think it's crazy to play through the injury, so as to train yourself to avoid letting those muscles or those areas flare up? If I have a sore wrist for example, and I can do a bit of playing without aggravating that injury, am I not teaching my hands to play more loosely and/or avoid using the wrong muscles?
 
Grolubao Yes! AT was one of the best things I ever got into. Had a great teacher in Boston who worked with me while playing, and sometimes when I couldn't get my drums to his studio I just imagined playing and it had a great effect then, too! Alexander Technique is awesome. Any particularly describable things you can share from AT that helped you out?

MrInsanePolack, Before I say anything I should probably tell you to inform your doctor you intend to stretch. I think that's good legally in case you get hit by lightning while stretching on your couch. I would do Kelly Starrett's super couch mobilization. Here's a decent video to get the idea. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tweCntuDdVY You can do this with your back leg against a wall, ankle against a padded chair, or with the knee on a couch seat and the front leg on a coffee table or nearly straight out on the floor in front of the couch (my preference so I can distract myself with a little TV.) He has actually made some errors to ease up the stretch. You want your back shin as close to vertical as possible, and you want that thigh vertical and under your body. You can see in the video he has angled his back thigh out a little to relieve the pain of really stretching it. That's because he wants to look good for the video with his chest up. You want your spine to remain "straight" (there will be natural curves, but you know...) If the stretch is too deep, you'll probably have your torso nearly horizontal to the floor. That's fine! Just keep the position of your legs correct. Back leg as I described, and front leg as if you were squatting. Hold for about 2 mins each side if you can, slowly moving in and out of the really painful spots. Don't make a face! Stay relaxed. If you can't be relaxed, bring your torso down (spine and neck aligned) to ease it up. If that stretch is too tough on your knees let me know and I'll look in my books for some scaled down options.

Check out this video as well, from Mr. Starrett himself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JslrFB06wPU

This explains a couple things. #1, since you probably never bring your knees above your hips apart from drumming, you don't have range of motion. When you play double kick, you're using your chronically tight psoas for stability, and then doing fast powerful actions with you legs at the absolute end range of their mobility! Makes sense you might hurt. Try practicing getting into a full squat as he shows, with knees out for stability rather than relying on your overworked psoas. This will show you if you have limited range of motion for your hips that may be forcing your hip flexors to work against restrictions in the joint instead of just lifting up your leg. Squatting like that may be tough on your knees. If so, don't do it, and try imitating the position with your back on the floor, feet on a wall, and slide your butt as close to the wall as possible. Feet pointed straight, and knees outside your feet! Without knowing what happened and how bad it was, you may not be able to do this at all, but I'd bet there's a lot of potential for increased motion in that ACL area. I can't advise on that without seeing it though, so unless you live near NYC or want to try a skype appointment, I'd leave it, or see someone near you who can help.

Dre25, That's good that you can control it! You have the choice now to hunch or not. Hearing better maybe isn't so crazy actually. My dad is a psychologist and he can often tell what I'm thinking or about to play based on which ear is pointed where in an improvising situation. I don't get it, but maybe there's something to it. If it works, just don't hunch any other time, and drumming that way shouldn't do too much damage unless you really hold it tight. Might affect playing ability though...but sounds like you're taking care of that shoulder the right way!

As for pain, I just say that pain is not an indicator of something being wrong. It's a result. If you start hunching your shoulder, that's "wrong," but while playing you probably don't notice until it starts to hurt, right? That's the result of the poor posture. So if you feel pain it means you've already done damage, and should stop for the day if you can, because your musculature and nervous system are probably tired and stressed out. Following that thought, be careful with thinking that playing for 5 minutes and not hurting means you've been training yourself into better technique. If you're doing the same thing that would make you hurt after 15 minutes, you're still training that poor technique, and just stopping before the pain point. If you would only hurt after an hour, that may mean it's poor technique, or it may mean some muscle groups are weak and get too fatigued to help you do the correct technique you had earlier in your practice session, and in that case, shorter practices are exactly what you should be doing. It's just hard to know which is which sometimes, even for myself, so I err on the side of trying new things and seeing if I can find something that just feels good and has no potential for pain.

Finally, and it's probably not really the best thing to do, but I always tell people to respect their bodies and only do best practices during practice, but that if you finish a gig hurting and smiling, then that was probably the right thing to do. Keep working in the practice room, but if you enjoy gigging and jamming with people more than you dislike the pain, just play and have fun! Serious pain like tearing an ACL or wearing down your rotator cuff will probably make you not want to play. Gigging also makes it easier for me to be very deliberate and ONLY practice EXACTLY the technique I want to use, because I'm not starved for playing time. To hit Vince Lombardi's quote "Practice does not make perfect, practice makes permanent. Only perfect practice makes perfect." But playing is fun! So play if the pain doesn't stop you, and do perfect practice whenever you can, cause that's fun too!
 
I have carpal ulna (non drumming related injury, but I feel it when drumming), but apparently it isn't as bad as you. Same deal with the pinky.

I also have a stiff left leg that I believe is from a blood clot.
 
lol! I sometimes cramp while playing (usually due to activity right before drumming). I've cramped during a performance as well.

I just play through it, try to rub down between songs, change position, movement, etc...

Sucks. Sometimes (if moving a lot that day) my hip flexors will cramp (from placement of double pedals). I try to adjust my position (without moving my pedals) to widen my position (open knees, playing on outside of pedal), or narrow my stance (move knees in, play inside of pedal).

I have laundry list of injuries (prior profession), and drumming isn't always comfortable, but I love it too much to give a crap.
 
JasperGTR, it sounds like you already know how to fix two problems you mention. Don't do those activities right before drumming. Take a break before sitting on the kit. Why don't you move your pedals if their position hurts you?

See my response to MrInsanePolack above regarding hip flexors.

And yeah, if you enjoy it enough and don't feel the need to put in the effort to not hurt, then there's no need to do anything, and even if I gave advice, it wouldn't matter because you're having a good time!

How many Freudian psychologists does it take to change a lightbulb?
Just one, but first the lightbulb has to want to change.

If you want to try and fix those injuries, give a description or hit me up for a skype appointment or in person near NYC.
If you're happy and not in bad pain, then just drum on brother!
 
Hmm...MrPockets I'm not sure how to respond to that. If you think the stiff leg is a blood clot, have you had it checked out? Don't be posting to me on a drumming forum about a blood clot, see a doctor fool! Now!

That happened in 2009. No more clot. The point was that my leg fells more stiff afterwards. I already cramp more because the veins are weaker.
 
Ok that makes me feel a little better haha...
Well I don't have experience with any students or clients that have had blood clots in their legs, so I'm just going to say that, as you might have seen in the 2nd video link I posted to MrInsanePolack, sitting in chairs for long periods (90° angles at hips and knees, spine upright) is really not great for anyone, and in particular, there's a pretty high correlation between long periods of sitting and Deep Vein Thrombosis, which is blood clots and impaired blood flow in the legs, particularly upper legs. For myself, I've stacked a bunch of books on a dresser in order to have a standing desk, and when I do need to sit for work (composition and writing), I try to get up every 15 minutes for at least a few seconds and move around. I can make any calls, respond to emails on my phone, or just think about the project for a few moments while standing, and it's good for my legs and back. Basically you want to not sit whenever possible, because so many activities require sitting. If you're working at your computer in public, driving, drumming, public entertainment like movies. So I squat at a low table to eat when in close company, and stand or lie down while playing video games or watching tv. That practice helped my pain and mobility, and should help with blood flow and general health of your legs.

Definitely check with your doctor for the following ideas, because this is not my area of expertise, but I'd also cautiously recommend light exercise like walking, or air squats to just put some demand on the legs and encourage strengthening, and also putting your straightened legs up a wall with your back on the floor for 5-10 minutes at the end of the day, which is the easy version of a yoga inversion like shoulder, hand, or headstand, which helps to reverse all the fluids that tend to pool up in the lower torso and legs.

I have a permanent lump of scar tissue in my left hand from a botched surgery when I was a kid, which tends to pull my hand in and make certain ways of gripping difficult. It just means I have to make sure to stretch and massage that hand in order to have it function well, but since I do that my hand still functions better than some friends who don't pay attention to theirs and end up with carpal tunnel and stiff fingers, so you can still do great things on that leg!
Please let me know if these suggestions make a difference, because I'm very curious. And again, caution and check with a doctor about my more active recommendations.
 
How to minimize hunching and raising the hi hat shoulder?

Learn flamenco dance and horse-riding. Nobody ever comments on my drumming, but if I had £1 for every time I'm commended on my posture, I'd be able to afford a set of Gurus and still have some left over for a bag of chips.
 
I don't know. My drumming teacher was kinda crazy. He always told me that if your wrists cramp during a practice session, and if they hurt the next day, that you should still keep on practicing. To work through the pain. He told me that it’s a way to build your “stamina” on the set.

I don’t know if that’s possibly true. But my music can require me to do a lot of snare rolls. When I do get to playing those kinds of songs that require me to do rolls and other fast actions on the wrists, my wrists begin to cramp, they feel stiff, my grip on my sticks begins to loosen up too much, and I can end up flinging sticks all over the place… it just becomes a mess. It hurts like crazy too. I get like that after 2 or 3 songs of rolls and all that madness. Maybe it’s just a thing that needs practice in order to improve… or maybe it’s just normal. I don’t know. What do you guys think?
 
I don't know. My drumming teacher was kinda crazy. He always told me that if your wrists cramp during a practice session, and if they hurt the next day, that you should still keep on practicing. To work through the pain. He told me that it’s a way to build your “stamina” on the set.

I don’t know if that’s possibly true. But my music can require me to do a lot of snare rolls. When I do get to playing those kinds of songs that require me to do rolls and other fast actions on the wrists, my wrists begin to cramp, they feel stiff, my grip on my sticks begins to loosen up too much, and I can end up flinging sticks all over the place… it just becomes a mess. It hurts like crazy too. I get like that after 2 or 3 songs of rolls and all that madness. Maybe it’s just a thing that needs practice in order to improve… or maybe it’s just normal. I don’t know. What do you guys think?

I think if you are hurting yourself then you are doing something wrong, or not practicing enough to maintain the speed and endurance you want, or you are getting old like me.

Death metal drummers can play extremely fast for long periods of time without hurting themselves. Just some food for thought.
 
I think if you are hurting yourself then you are doing something wrong, or not practicing enough to maintain the speed and endurance you want, or you are getting old like me.

Death metal drummers can play extremely fast for long periods of time without hurting themselves. Just some food for thought.

Well, I'm 19 years old. Don't tell me that's considered "old"? lol
 
JasperGTR, it sounds like you already know how to fix two problems you mention. Don't do those activities right before drumming. Take a break before sitting on the kit. Why don't you move your pedals if their position hurts you?

See my response to MrInsanePolack above regarding hip flexors.

And yeah, if you enjoy it enough and don't feel the need to put in the effort to not hurt, then there's no need to do anything, and even if I gave advice, it wouldn't matter because you're having a good time!

How many Freudian psychologists does it take to change a lightbulb?
Just one, but first the lightbulb has to want to change.

If you want to try and fix those injuries, give a description or hit me up for a skype appointment or in person near NYC.
If you're happy and not in bad pain, then just drum on brother!
Best response EVER!

Love this attitude. Wish more people were this helpful.

Sometimes we get the 'agenda', and sometimes you get someone who is genuinely interested in helping others. Easy to spot those. I look forward to reading the advice to other members (as it may fit me as well, though I wasn't aware of it at the time).
 
Doctors aren't always wrong, but their job description these days is actually a bit different than one traditionally might think. They aren't necessecessary healers. The average one is a dinousaur in a field that's in a constant revolution.

I think more and more of us are coming out of the world where you just go to your doctor and let him/her fix you when something is wrong. We have to take resposibility and educate ourselves.

If I needed surgery I would offcourse want to go to a hospital and have the baest people using the latest gadgets, but for anything before that last resort which one should probably delay more than most people do, can be healed ina different way if you work hard enough and you're lucky enough to find that thing for you.

In this day and age, researching all sorts of "alternative" stuff is a worthy hobby to have. I know what all the tonic herbs and stuff I take do for me, my body and my ability to learn.

My freezer used to be full of frozen pizzas. Today it's full of berries and wild meats, and the rest of my kitchen is full of all sorts of "superfoods" and big bottles of vodka containing all sorts of tonic herbs from all over the world.

It's also funny that so many sports and exercise activities are known to put so much strain on the body. This is not the way exercise should work.


Whenever I've felt pain it's been a technique issue. If I warmed up really well with full strokes on a non-rebounding surface so I was really warm it was never a problem. It might be that I got warm and probably was a little bit, but mostly I think I just reminded my body of the right movement. These days I can play most things, except realy fast single hand hi-hat without warming up much, but I also want to get back into it more as I feel it's time to take the next step in my technical development.
 
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