Consistent grip at higher tempos

Joe2112

Junior Member
Hey guys, I'm sure a lot of drummers have fought with this at some point or another, so I figured I'd throw it out there (sorry if its been discussed)

I've noticed that when playing one-handed 16th notes on the hi-hat or a fast jazz ride pattern for extended periods of time, I switch between two grips in order to keep consistent volume and to stay in time. I seem to alternate between a mainly wrist-focused grip with the back of my hand facing upwards and more of a finger focused grip with my thumb facing upwards and my palm facing out to the left. There is no difference between sounds for me, and switching between grips actually helps me stay consistent. Neither one is easier or harder, and it just seems like a combination of the two gets me through longer passages of fast hi-hat or ride patterns. I'm guessing I'm working different muscles, so as one tires out, the other takes over.

However, I can only imagine how awkward it looks, and would definitely assume it'd be better to pick one and stick with it., even I may stumble through at at first.

Anybody have experience with this?
 
I'm not a teacher and I wouldn't recommend paying too much attention to what I have to say, but I don't think it really matters. It sounds like you're describing a switch between French grip (thumb on top) and German grip (palm facing down). Transitioning between those grips is routine for a drummer as s/he moves around the drum set, so I don't think it's a big deal that you're switching during ride patterns.

If it really bothers you, what you probably need to do is practice one (or both) more so that you increase your endurance to the point where switching is unnecessary. I think most drummers favor the French grip for ride playing (that's what I use, just because it feels more natural). But if your technique of switching works for you, I wouldn't worry too much about how it looks.

But I'd wait for some of our teachers to weigh in and see what they have to say.
 
I do whatever I have to to keep those tempos. I switch grips too for faster stuff. When I'm doing really fast 8ths on the ride, I put my stick in the crook between my index and middle finger and motivate the stick with the tip of my middle finger on the back of the stick. Then if that gets too much I switch to a standard grip, until those muscles need a rest, then I switch back again. I'm not concerned with how it looks, I do what I need to keep up. Besides, no one is noticing and if they are, so what? You gotta do what you gotta do.
 
While the 'French grip' puts more stress on your ulnar nerve, I always use it when playing fast ride patterns. It just takes less work for me to play more consistent with that grip. I try to use the 'German grip' for most of my playing, and I've been trying to get better at the swing patterns with it, because it is a more natural and relaxed position, but it's harder for me to get my fingers to cooperate in that position over the ride.
 
you will get some technique purists tell you differently and they will throw around words like "wrong" and "inncorrect"

but I believe you develop what works for you

thats what drumset players have been doing for over 100 years... developing what works for them and using it

thats what all these techniques that everyone pushes on us are.... things that worked for other player so they share it..... and sure ... some work for you and some work for others

what is important is that you find what works and is comfortable and you develop it

I don't care if you hold the sticks in your armpits .... if you can develop it and make the instrument sing then run with it

somewhere along the line drummers started to love to tell other players that this is "wrong"... and that is "wrong".... because they are not doing what this certain individual sees as correct

then someone puts out a book and all of the sudden their way is more correct than yours because it is published and their opinion somehow carries more weight than yours.

if you are doing something that is not going to result in injury and you enjoy doing it..... then develop it

watch Thelonious Monk play piano.... 9 out of 10 piano teachers would tell him he is doing it "wrong" and using horrible "technique"

a classical guitar teacher would probably have to watch through his fingers in horror looking at Keith Richards playing guitar

Philly Joe Jones had no comment after watching Keith Moon play drums

find one of these technique purists and put him in a room with Art Blakey ..... yeah .... Blakeys technique was very "wrong"..... but very very "right" if you dig what I mean

keep your mind open and eyes peeled for things that may help you along the way..... but develop what feels good to you

I have been a very successful teacher for over a decade with former students attending prestigious music schools on scholarship ...... and I never push techniques on students
we develop natural movements .... we don't name them

we make the stick work for us with any of the necessary movements that will make the instrument sound appealing and musical
 
Last edited:
While the 'French grip' puts more stress on your ulnar nerve, I always use it when playing fast ride patterns. It just takes less work for me to play more consistent with that grip. I try to use the 'German grip' for most of my playing, and I've been trying to get better at the swing patterns with it, because it is a more natural and relaxed position, but it's harder for me to get my fingers to cooperate in that position over the ride.

the only player I personally have ever seen not use a thumb up ride position to play a swing pattern is Shelly Manne ..... I think a thumb up ride position is way more natural

I recommend not forcing something that does not feel natural to you

don't force a "german grip" ride position if you are already comfortable another way .... it makes no sense

"but it's harder for me to get my fingers to cooperate in that position over the ride"

your answer is in your own quote ..... there are enough obstacles we face as players without fighting against ourselves
 
the only player I personally have ever seen not use a thumb up ride position to play a swing pattern is Shelly Manne ..... I think a thumb up ride position is way more natural

I recommend not forcing something that does not feel natural to you

don't force a "german grip" ride position if you are already comfortable another way .... it makes no sense

"but it's harder for me to get my fingers to cooperate in that position over the ride"

your answer is in your own quote ..... there are enough obstacles we face as players without fighting against ourselves

I guess I should have phrased that a little differently. It isn't necessarily a more natural position, but a position less stressful on the nerve, which is something I've had a problem with. Since I started stretching regularly before I play, I haven't had near as many problems with my ulnar nerve, but it still happens from time to time when playing in the 'thumb up' position for a long period of time, which is why I want to work on my finger control to play it with my palm facing down.
 
I have a ride cymbal to my left, between my hihat and first tom, high enough so that I can get my left trad stick on it at a decent flat angle. As a consequence of that, when I switch to my right hand on the same cymbal, it's too high to maintain a French grip for too long, so I find myself using a German grip, and this grip is loose on the index finger, with the stick pivoting on the two knuckle undersides of the index and index+1.

I don't have much experience playing fast jazz patterns on a ride, but I suppose the best thing for that is a French grip on the low cymbal to the right. Yes, I took away the extra tom finally... the ride there is much more comfortable :)

Steph
Edit: Oops I forgot to say after all that, I don't think I can maintain a fast ride pattern for very long with the German.
 
you will get some technique purists tell you differently and they will throw around words like "wrong" and "inncorrect"

but I believe you develop what works for you

thats what drumset players have been doing for over 100 years... developing what works for them and using it

thats what all these techniques that everyone pushes on us are.... things that worked for other player so they share it..... and sure ... some work for you and some work for others

what is important is that you find what works and is comfortable and you develop it

I don't care if you hold the sticks in your armpits .... if you can develop it and make the instrument sing then run with it

somewhere along the line drummers started to love to tell other players that this is "wrong"... and that is "wrong".... because they are not doing what this certain individual sees as correct

then someone puts out a book and all of the sudden their way is more correct than yours because it is published and their opinion somehow carries more weight than yours.

if you are doing something that is not going to result in injury and you enjoy doing it..... then develop it

watch Thelonious Monk play piano.... 9 out of 10 piano teachers would tell him he is doing it "wrong" and using horrible "technique"

a classical guitar teacher would probably have to watch through his fingers in horror looking at Keith Richards playing guitar

Philly Joe Jones had no comment after watching Keith Moon play drums

find one of these technique purists and put him in a room with Art Blakey ..... yeah .... Blakeys technique was very "wrong"..... but very very "right" if you dig what I mean

keep your mind open and eyes peeled for things that may help you along the way..... but develop what feels good to you

I have been a very successful teacher for over a decade with former students attending prestigious music schools on scholarship ...... and I never push techniques on students
we develop natural movements .... we don't name them

we make the stick work for us with any of the necessary movements that will make the instrument sound appealing and musical

I would like to take a few lessons from you...

My last teacher was very adamant that I use a certain grip; mainly a German grip with my right hand (trad in the left). I had a wrist injury a few years ago and it gets aggravated if I use a lot of wrist with the German type of grip. It gets sore if there is a lot of up and down motion with the back of my hand facing up. So I use French probably 90% of the time and I'm able to play much faster, cleaner, and more importantly, pain-free.

All this to say, to the OP, keep playing those fast tempos and you will find a grip that works for you. The one that helps you play what you want to say without hurting yourself is the correct one for you.
 
I've been steering away from German grip - rather naturally. Mostly American, sometimes french. German grip offers very limited stick control using the thumb as a brake which I feel doesn't work for me. (No drum teacher here, just my 2 cents.)

I do treat grips/techniques as means to an end. The look doesn't bother me - unless a certain look means my technique is right. I would switch between grips/techniques as I feel/need. I guess that's what they exist for ;-)
 
Thanks for the input, everyone. Grip is definitely a very subjective part of drumming, but it is comforting to know I'm not doing anything that will screw me up down the road haha

It's funny though because I recently started with a new teacher who is really trying to get me to adopt an American style grip, which seems to be a combination of the two grips I've been using. It's definitely comfortable for snare playing and rudiment practice, but like you guys explained, multiple grips are needed to adequately move around the kit, and I find myself changing grips in order to stay creative and let the ideas flow.

Ill admit, I'm definitely overthinking it a bit, but we drummers seem to have a tendency for that lol
 
Back
Top