Keith Moon

  • Thread starter tuckerduncan2002
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Funny thing is, Pete Townshend was critical of Keith's playing, basically saying that Moonie took all the good parts leaving Pete to do the basic timekeeping work, saying "somebody had to" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09rKeViMY3Y

Keith gets the blame because he's flamboyant, but it wasn't as though John Entwhistle was staying at home like Noel Redding to give the guitarist some. Fair enough - they got the fun, Pete got the writing credits :)

Love this one for rhythm section thrills and spills http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pohhMx9EdNc
 
Keith Moon was an undisciplined, carefree, insecure, brilliant, hysterically funny, manic, loving, belligerent, complicated and contradictory loose cannon. His entire personality came through in his playing. That alone, despite whether or not anyone's paradiddles are tighter or bass drum more solid, makes Keith an amazing artist and legendary drummer.

Long Live Moonie.

Peace, MT
 
Good thread....age 50 here and have always enjoyed The Who. Untold hours....and then more hours....listening to all their stuff on vinyl and then later CD. Have seen them several times with and without Moon.

In my estimation, the brilliance of Keith....and what translates to his playing and the obvious and enormous impact it had on the Who...is that he played what he wanted when he wanted how he wanted....and for whatever reason was not interested in being something else or aspiring to play like someone else. That's brave....that's pure....and unapologetically original.

Technical ability is required to a certain degree so one can at least communicate how they want using an instrument. Past that point, and if there is too much focus on refinement, the abandon and expression can give way to accuracy and competency which can be an inhibitor to sounding original.

Moon didn't give a rats ass about it, so his voice and style was uniquely his. A beautiful enigma. So the irony is....the so called lack of technicality is what established his individual approach and voice and thus his lasting influence.
 
Hmm, looks like a bit of vote stacking here, young Steve :)

Moonie was lucky to have the talent to play so freely without so much graft. How much fun would that be? What do you do for a living? I jam along with my friends' songs.

But, as you say, he was unlucky in that that same quality at times left him without self control which ultimately lead to his death.

"Young Steve....you say the nicest things Grea.......:):)

But yes,the very thing than let him breathe,ultimately took his breath away.He was a fomula 1 race car,without brakes,and his concept of self control,was going to sleep, after tying one on.I still think he was brilliant player,who's unbridaled power,brought an whole new energy level to the drum set....and to rock.

Steve B
 
But yes,the very thing than let him breathe,ultimately took his breath away.

That's a good way of putting it for a young fella :) Seems to me the same probably could be said of the 27 club too.

Pressure begets creativity because it forces us to solve problems. Stimulation-seeking creative people like Moonie will create problems when none present themselves, even when it has nothing to do with their music or art. More disciplined creative people accept the lulls and then strike when the muse arrives.

I know this because I have long tended to be the former (thanks Mum), and envied the latter.
 
The thing I got from Keith was he proved the drummer provided the power and the dynamics of the band.

Keith could go from a whisper to a full on fright train. He could lightly back up a quiet section, or drive a powerful section like a sports car meets a Mac truck. Keith's control of dynamics and power is the main reason "Live at Leeds" is such a great album. (particularly the original version, before the 1001 re-issues).

Pete was often a story teller through his songwriting and Keith could handle what ever Pete threw at him, and would find a way to tell that story on drums. "The Real Me" probably being the best example of this.

As Tony mentioned, at times Keith would take a classical orchestra approach with his parts.

And other times, he could be actually be controlled. The whole concept of a drummer playing along to a sequencer with a click on stage started with The Who.
 
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He played like drummers should, which is jammin his ass off and not worried about his gear and everything being perfect.
 
In my opinion the closest to Keith Moon's style of playing was Mitch Mitchell who was particularly adept at using drum technique. I think the key to Moon's playing is being able to do single stroke rolls very fast while crushing some hertas in. I don't think Keith ever thought about it as herta's, ratamcue's etc when he was playing them, he firstly thought of them as single stroke rolls and thought about the different rudiments by splitting them up into singles first so he could split up and syncopate hertas and ratamacue's etc halfway through and do different stuff. He said that he could play paradiddles but they never fitted in with the music he was playing with.

Also, look carefully on the video of "Who Are You" the song on you tube. You will see Keith Moon do a brief demonstration of how he approached the toms and the cymbals. He rolls his fist together like a boxer hitting a speedball and then when he comes to the end of 4 rolls he puts his arms out to simulate a particular accent on the drums. I think the key to his playing (and I'm not an expert, just a big who fan) that made him keep time was thinking in circles - he played up wards as if he was paddling and he would know how to come in on a cue at the end of a bar or a guitar solo by knowing when his other arm would come back up or down at the end of a circle that he used in his rolls (so then knowing where to place the other that fell naturally within a bar etc or the end of 4 bars). He did use his fingers to move the stick while he was driving the stick to the tom, but to move it sideways (not to do a paradiddle) but sway the stick sideways so that he could do the off beats on the other toms that would supply the great oddities of his fills (his fist looks like it's over one drum but the end of the stick is hitting another away to the side).

Another aspect to his playing was the orchiestral way in which he turned the volume up and down. He hit the skins as if you were hitting a kettle drum to build up tension and gravity, only he would do it really fast and build it up to a long roll right across the kit (but with each drum so you would have to put double the effort into each drum rather rely on a given technique that would make it easier and tidier) - again this is Keith Moon's amazing self taught training on single stick rolls.
 
Technical ability is required to a certain degree so one can at least communicate how they want using an instrument. Past that point, and if there is too much focus on refinement, the abandon and expression can give way to accuracy and competency which can be an inhibitor to sounding original.

Moon didn't give a rats ass about it, so his voice and style was uniquely his. A beautiful enigma. So the irony is....the so called lack of technicality is what established his individual approach and voice and thus his lasting influence.


I agree all you say........including technical ability is required to a certain degree.. and that "degree" is debatable...
 
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Sorry for necro'ing this thread...

Is there a thread somewhere that discusses some of the specifics of Keith's playing, and steers clear of philosophy and discussing his offstage antics? I've been listening to a lot of Roy McDonald's Moon-inspired fills lately. Stuff like the 16th note triplet beginning on the 'and of the two' adds a neat flavor to otherwise uninspired playing.

This thread had a handful of posts, but I'm looking for something more drummer-centric.
 
Sorry for necro'ing this thread...

Is there a thread somewhere that discusses some of the specifics of Keith's playing, and steers clear of philosophy and discussing his offstage antics? I've been listening to a lot of Roy McDonald's Moon-inspired fills lately. Stuff like the 16th note triplet beginning on the 'and of the two' adds a neat flavor to otherwise uninspired playing.

This thread had a handful of posts, but I'm looking for something more drummer-centric.

Searched and found these two threads:

http://drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113039&highlight=keith+moon

http://drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104684&highlight=keith+moon
 

Indeed. I saw those two ( and a few others) before necro'ing this one. Each of those is 3 pages of babble and a dozen lines of drumming related information.

following the vocal
crashing on odd 3s
pumping the bass drum constantly through "fills"
not playing both sticks on the same tom very often at all when playing around the kit
riding on two cymbals
using the single stroke four a ton
etc etc.
triplet heavy
kick flams

The parts look like an immense amount of fun to play at almost any skill level. and do a great job of challenging my notion of what a fill should be.
 
Ginger Baker and Keith Moon are the reason I started playing the drums. I saw Baker first (with Cream), then Moon (with the Who). I created my drumming style by blending the best aspects of each of their drumming styles. Later I incorporated aspects of the styles of Bill Bruford, Billy Cobham, Tony Williams, Chester Thompson and Phil Collins.
I saw the Who live several times in the late 60s and early 70s during the Tommy, Who's Next and Quadrophenia tours.
If you want to see Keith Moon at the absolute height of his creative powers, check out the Who's performance at the Tanglewood Music Shed on July 7, 1970. The full concert is usually available via YouTube. This is the last time the Who performed Tommy live in the USA. Moon is absolutely on fire. His drumming is flawless. It's smooth, powerful and effortless! This is undeniable evidence that Moon and John Entwhistle are one of the finest rock rhythm sections ever! And that Moon is easily one of the best rock drummers ever, period! As far as him being sloppy, a poor time keeper or technically inefficient, this performance obliterates those criticisms (at least during this time period). He perfectly compliments the music in a distinctive, creative, entertaining and musically powerful way.
Unfortunately, many people have poor visual reference with which to gauge Moon's true genius. It's generally agreed by knowledgeable Moon aficionados that his later performances are marred by lack of practice, the degenerative and de-conditioning effects of the rock and roll life style and boredom. It is because of these later performances that many people believe Moon is deeply flawed and overrated. I saw the Who in 1975 at the Silverdome (in Pontiac, MI) and he was a shadow of his former self.
 
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If you want to see Keith Moon at the absolute height of his creative powers, check out the Who's performance at the Tanglewood Music Shed on July 7, 1970. The full concert is usually available via YouTube.

Thanx for pointing this out. While watching this, I'm seeing some RllrrL-R triplets that I never noticed before, and was playing/interpreting all wrong.
 
I just watched The Who's DVD Live at the Isle of Wight Festival 1970 and it has some great footage of Keith performing.

What struck me most was the way he engaged with Pete and John both visually and verbally. He looked at them with wide eyes, laughed at them, smiled at them, nodded, pointed, and "conducted". Never a dull moment.

After I got passed that, I noticed that his kit sounded really great, but I couldn't see a forest of microphone stands. NO overheads, yet the cymbals are screaming and Keith is NOT a hard hitter. He actually looked a bit gentle working on his tins. (Not so much on his kicks. A head was replaced during a tune.)

And the size of his toms! All the mounted toms are what we consider "hyper-drive" today. Short Premiere toms sounding huge!

If anyone knows, please let us know how they mic'd his kit. The only mics I can see are kick mics on booms.
 
So I've just watched the Tanglewood concert for the 20th time... I think I've learned more from this video about Moon's playing than all the other videos combined. I think it's because the camera angles are extremely sympathetic to anyone wanting to see Keith's playing.

@cbphoto -- You can see the mics underneath the toms in the Tanglewood vid. While blurry, it looks like SM-58's. You can also see the overheads.
 
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