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  #1  
Old 11-17-2017, 09:55 AM
AndeeT AndeeT is offline
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Default Both hands on ride bell double bass beat

Hi!

Apologies for my written diarrhea clogging up the boards at the moment; I tracked drums for the first time a few days ago and it showed me a lot of drumming weakness' I didnt know I had. Very humbling experience and my mind has been racing since then!

So my question is about those drum beats that sometimes come up in metal; fast double bass drum roll (16th straight, triplet 16th or maybe straight 32nd notes) and the hands double that phrasing on the ride of a bell; so you need both hands on the bell of the ride.

Any tips for pulling these beats off?

The only way I have managed to play these beats in the past is with my ride set up on my left a la Bobby Jarzombek and other 'fully' open-handed players.

I am back to playing with my ride in the traditional position now. The problem there is that for my keft arm to get to the ride bell I have to lean forward and to the right, which throws off my feet...

Maybe players have two rides (one either side) to play these beats? Thata nice an all, but I dont have two :-)

cheers,


Andy
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Old 11-17-2017, 06:08 PM
Ghostin one Ghostin one is offline
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Default Re: Both hands on ride bell double bass beat

Recording can be brutally humbling... as I read your post I thought, "this guy needs another ride cymbal", but I see you figured that out.

Have you tried just using the bells on other cymbals you already have on the set?
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Old 11-17-2017, 07:00 PM
81MC 81MC is offline
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Default Re: Both hands on ride bell double bass beat

There will be things you want to play that are limited by our physical ability to actually hit the things. This sounds like one of them. You either need to move your ride closer to the left, develop a spinal yoga practise allowing you to twist your upper body without pressuring your hips, or get a second cymbal on your left.
Playing thinks like Hoglans cool bell patterns necessitates two cymbals, IMO.
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Old 11-17-2017, 08:05 PM
AndeeT AndeeT is offline
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Default Re: Both hands on ride bell double bass beat

Cheers for your replies,

Yes, the recording session was brutal in my ego :-)

I guess I could try on the left crash bell with my left and and ride bell with my right? I use a thin crash though so the bell isnt quite 'there'

and yes, i know guys like Hoglan use a ride to either side for stuff like this

Spinal yoga sounds nice
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Old 11-18-2017, 05:55 PM
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Dr_Watso Dr_Watso is offline
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Default Re: Both hands on ride bell double bass beat

Is there something else you could play? Can you use a different cymbal's bell?
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Old 11-18-2017, 06:34 PM
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SYMBOLIC DEATH SYMBOLIC DEATH is offline
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Default Re: Both hands on ride bell double bass beat

The easiest way to do this is to have two rides, but there are other options. One is to move you ride more over your kick. Another option is to get an ice bell that has a similar tone to th e bell on you ride, a la Peter Wildoer from Darkane. The problem with the ice bell idea, is generally their tone is too long, where his is much shorter.
I've been doing the double ride thing with 2 rides for almost 20 years, and it's become second nature for me. My primary ride is on my left side because I'm left handed and right footed.

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Old 11-20-2017, 10:57 AM
AndeeT AndeeT is offline
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Default Re: Both hands on ride bell double bass beat

Thanks for more replies;

SymbolicDeath; I guess the Ice-bell could be an option for me if I don't want to schlepp a second ride...I will try repositioning the ride like you said for now but if I cant get that working maybe the bell is the answer

Dr_Watso; as I mentioned before my crash is quite thin and the bell is weak. But now that I think of it, my hats are pretty heavy, and I have a large gap between top and bottom hat usually, so the bell of the top hat could work a treat. Cheers!

Andy
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Old 11-21-2017, 11:35 PM
Sheherezadeh Sheherezadeh is offline
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Default Re: Both hands on ride bell double bass beat

Quote:
Originally Posted by SYMBOLIC DEATH View Post
The problem with the ice bell idea, is generally their tone is too long, where his is much shorter.
Generally speaking tones that sound too long and ringy when you're sitting at the kit dissipate much quicker in a band mix, and you mainly hear just the initial attack transient if the rest of the band is still playing. If the sustain is still too long you can apply some of those cymbal gels to deaden it a bit.
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Old 11-22-2017, 03:24 AM
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SYMBOLIC DEATH SYMBOLIC DEATH is offline
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Default Re: Both hands on ride bell double bass beat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheherezadeh View Post
Generally speaking tones that sound too long and ringy when you're sitting at the kit dissipate much quicker in a band mix, and you mainly hear just the initial attack transient if the rest of the band is still playing. If the sustain is still too long you can apply some of those cymbal gels to deaden it a bit.
Yes all of that is very true. I only mention it as an option/idea.
The specific one that Peter Wildoer uses with Darkane is a long discontinued LP ice bell, and live it sounds like the bell of a ride and doesn't ring for half an hour, like regular ice bells.

You could also go the Gene Hoglan rout and use a brass/bronze boat propeller or a howitzer shell casing. Both of which are bell-like.
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  #10  
Old 11-22-2017, 04:03 AM
AndeeT AndeeT is offline
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Default Re: Both hands on ride bell double bass beat

Cool, cheers guys. Actually I am very tempted by the ice bell with some tape on it idea! and its tiny so I shouldn't find it hard to fit on on the kit

I tried setting up the ride more in the middle of the bass drum today and it worked really well for these types of beats but it did sacrifice my movement a bit between rack tom and floor tom. I will have to find a compromise there.

Maybe push the whole ride back a few inches but keep it close to the middle of the bass.

Now I could definitely source an old propeller here on the coast of New Zealand but how the hell do you mount that thing ?!
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Old 11-22-2017, 05:45 AM
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jdhardrummer jdhardrummer is offline
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Default Re: Both hands on ride bell double bass beat

The Gojira drummer uses this a lot... and very quickly as well. Nothing complicated about it, just a matter of getting the ride bell positioned as far left as possible so that it's effectively reachable like a rack-tom.

Having a big-bell cymbal like Z-series really helps as well since you don't need pinpoint precision to nail the roll. I would recommend avoiding getting a 2nd ride for it, it might be a good opportunity to force you to assess the ergonomics of your current setup and adjust accordingly. There's no such thing as 1 'right' setup :)
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Old 11-22-2017, 08:36 AM
AndeeT AndeeT is offline
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Default Re: Both hands on ride bell double bass beat

Cheers JdHardDrummer,

Ah yes, Gojira :-). Will have to listen to them again.

Yes, I tried moving the ride into the bass drum today and it was tough getting it far in. The boom of the stand was almost fully out and the bell of the ride wasn't even 6 inches into the BD.

It did help though
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