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  #1  
Old 04-16-2014, 03:42 AM
Bondtana Bondtana is offline
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Default Hiring drummers for a project, need drummer advice.

Hey everybody. I am looking to hire a bunch of drummers to do some session work. I really don't know what sort of prices to expect & thought it would make sense to get some advice from real drummers. So here I am...

Basically the main requirement (besides being able to groove) is that they need to be able to self record. I'd like to get a lot of different sounds, so I don't think I'd hire anyone for more than a few hours, unless they really knew how to get different kit sounds out of their studio. I was planning on just sending some mp3's of songs I dig, so they can groove along. They would not have to travel outside their studio.

I would be reselling these recordings in digital format on a small scale.

That's pretty much it. Any feedback or guidance would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

jim

PS Is there anywhere in particular I'd be able to post online (I'm thinking locally in craigslist), that would be appropriate to post for a job like this?

PPS Normally when I work with creatives, I pay half up front & half on the back end. Would that normally be ok with drummers?
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Old 04-16-2014, 03:54 AM
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Default Re: Hiring drummers for a project, need drummer advice.

Hi Bondtana,

I charge $200/tune and send you the completed session files in .wav format via dropbox.

http://billraydrums.com/drum-tracks.html and I can cover any style you need doin'. There's plenty of examples of my playing on my site.
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  #3  
Old 04-16-2014, 04:44 AM
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bermuda bermuda is offline
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Default Re: Hiring drummers for a project, need drummer advice.

Bill's a terrific drummer and well-versed in doing tracks this way (and I can't beat his price!)

Adverstising in a drum forum is probably the best way to reach drummers, although you could also search Google for drummers who record tracks at home (Bill's name will probably come up there as well.)

The amount of pay is subjective and often negotiable, and it's probably best for all concerned if you pay in full up front. After all, a musician who's done 100% of what they're hired to do, is entitled to be paid 100% when their work is completed. :)

Of course you should always endeavor to hear samples of the drummer's recordings, so that there's no question about his/her ability to play, record, and get good sounds. I will vouch for Bill Ray, no need to scrutinize his site for samples.

Good luck!

Bermuda
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  #4  
Old 04-16-2014, 05:04 AM
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Default Re: Hiring drummers for a project, need drummer advice.

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Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
After all, a musician who's done 100% of what they're hired to do, is entitled to be paid 100% when their work is completed. :)
Does that not imply that they should be paid after completing their work? I agree with the "pay up front" thing anyways.
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  #5  
Old 04-16-2014, 05:06 AM
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Default Re: Hiring drummers for a project, need drummer advice.

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Originally Posted by porter View Post
Does that not imply that they should be paid after completing their work? I agree with the "pay up front" thing anyways.
I don't think John read the OP's post correctly. Either that or "on the back end" means something different to him.

I think anyone would be ok with being paid half up front/half after.
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  #6  
Old 04-16-2014, 05:14 AM
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Default Re: Hiring drummers for a project, need drummer advice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
Bill's a terrific drummer and well-versed in doing tracks this way (and I can't beat his price!)

Adverstising in a drum forum is probably the best way to reach drummers, although you could also search Google for drummers who record tracks at home (Bill's name will probably come up there as well.)

The amount of pay is subjective and often negotiable, and it's probably best for all concerned if you pay in full up front. After all, a musician who's done 100% of what they're hired to do, is entitled to be paid 100% when their work is completed. :)

Of course you should always endeavor to hear samples of the drummer's recordings, so that there's no question about his/her ability to play, record, and get good sounds. I will vouch for Bill Ray, no need to scrutinize his site for samples.

Good luck!

Bermuda
Wow Berm, I owe you a steak dinner for that ringing endorsement! :O
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  #7  
Old 04-16-2014, 08:12 PM
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Default Re: Hiring drummers for a project, need drummer advice.

Hi bondtata, on a forum is a great way to do it.

Also looking online by searching online session drummer does throw up loads of guys. We all offer something slighty different. Theres someone out there for every style and budget.

Half upfront and then half after is a good way to provide security on both ends and a standard was most stuff is done.

Im also the same as Bill in that i provide this service. My cost is just shy of $150 per track depending what you need the track to be.
Feel free to check out my website www.prosessiondrummer.com to see the stuff i do and get in touch if you are interested.

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  #8  
Old 04-16-2014, 09:23 PM
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Default Re: Hiring drummers for a project, need drummer advice.

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Originally Posted by porter View Post
Does that not imply that they should be paid after completing their work? I agree with the "pay up front" thing anyways.
Always after completing the work, yes. By "up front" I meant as opposed to part of the payment being held contingent upon the product's or its sales.

Suppose tracks are recorded, the musicians are paid only half, with the other half being contingent on the tracks' sales... but the tracks never get released. Is it fair to not pay the musicians for the work they've completed, just because the contractor or others weren't able to follow-through? It's the person who commissions the work who takes the risk, or, enjoys the reward of extra sales as a result of assuming the risk.

The obvious exceptions would be players who are involved as a group and share the expenses and the rewards, or someone who has a contract specifying a share of the revenue. But someone being paid a fixed amount deserves to get it when their work is completed, not deferred or in installments.

I expect to be paid the agreed-upon amount when my playing is completed, regardless what becomes of the work after that.

Bermuda
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  #9  
Old 04-16-2014, 09:35 PM
Otto Otto is offline
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Default Re: Hiring drummers for a project, need drummer advice.

I'm not sure what is meant here...

"I would be reselling these recordings in digital format on a small scale."

Is the resell of the work to other studios for use in creating end product?

If so, I would consider higher rates - possibly "per resell" rates than if the work was to be used on one specific recording release.
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  #10  
Old 04-16-2014, 09:37 PM
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Default Re: Hiring drummers for a project, need drummer advice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_Major View Post
Hi bondtata, on a forum is a great way to do it.

Also looking online by searching online session drummer does throw up loads of guys. We all offer something slighty different. Theres someone out there for every style and budget.

Half upfront and then half after is a good way to provide security on both ends and a standard was most stuff is done.

Im also the same as Bill in that i provide this service. My cost is just shy of $150 per track depending what you need the track to be.
Feel free to check out my website www.prosessiondrummer.com to see the stuff i do and get in touch if you are interested.

Dave
Not a pro drummer but as a pro salesman I smell an inverse auction trap... Don't get caught guys :)
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  #11  
Old 04-20-2014, 06:28 AM
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MileHighDrummer MileHighDrummer is offline
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Default Re: Hiring drummers for a project, need drummer advice.

Just my perspective but anyone thinking about producing items for resale should have a grasp on what is involved in hiring, recording, releasing/selling any copyrighted material - including hiring professional musicians. Whether the drummer's hired are charging $100 per hour or $1,000 per hour, the OP should already know how that works. I smell either a troll at work or someone completely out of their lane on this one.
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  #12  
Old 04-20-2014, 08:29 AM
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Default Re: Hiring drummers for a project, need drummer advice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by picodon View Post
Not a pro drummer but as a pro salesman I smell an inverse auction trap... Don't get caught guys :)
Pardon? What do you mean by that?
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  #13  
Old 04-20-2014, 12:50 PM
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Default Re: Hiring drummers for a project, need drummer advice.

Producer: "I'm looking for a session drummer."

Drummer A: I'll do it for $200.

Drummer B: I'll do it for $150.

Drummer C: I'll do it for $100.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

See how it works? Reverse auction trap.

Not saying the OP is necessarily doing that, but that's what's developing. Drummers, if you want to offer your services, do at least the rates privately. Getting your site URL out there is important, I know, but only the client needs to know your rates.
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  #14  
Old 04-20-2014, 01:13 PM
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Arky Arky is offline
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Default Re: Hiring drummers for a project, need drummer advice.

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Originally Posted by STXBob View Post
Producer: "I'm looking for a session drummer."

Drummer A: I'll do it for $200.

Drummer B: I'll do it for $150.

Drummer C: I'll do it for $100.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

See how it works? Reverse auction trap.
Hmm... I think there's one aspect that is neglected here but it's a crucial one - quality.
And there's not necessarily a direct relation to the track rate of specific drummers. So if the client thinks that for $100, he's getting the same quality as offered by drummer x who'd do it for $200, I think the client is simply dumb. Now if there was a guarantee that price and quality directly match then people could decide how much quality they wanted to have and then choose the drummer accordingly.

These are general considerations though, I didn't relate to or mean to offend anybody specifically. But that's the nature of any market - there's products being offered in various price ranges and there's consumers willing to spend their money on them. And as said, while price can be a general guideline/reference for quality, those parameters don't need to always be in direct proportion.
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  #15  
Old 04-20-2014, 01:57 PM
David Floegel David Floegel is offline
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Default Re: Hiring drummers for a project, need drummer advice.

hi,

I record at home in my own studio too and charge 100 / track and you can get the session in any format you'd like, too.

You can check my youtube channel or soundcloud page in case you need some samples :)


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  #16  
Old 04-20-2014, 03:39 PM
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Midnite Zephyr Midnite Zephyr is offline
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Default Re: Hiring drummers for a project, need drummer advice.

OK, I'll do it for $500 because I'm that good. ;)
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  #17  
Old 04-20-2014, 04:10 PM
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bermuda bermuda is offline
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Default Re: Hiring drummers for a project, need drummer advice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MileHighDrummer View Post
Just my perspective but anyone thinking about producing items for resale should have a grasp on what is involved in hiring, recording, releasing/selling any copyrighted material - including hiring professional musicians. Whether the drummer's hired are charging $100 per hour or $1,000 per hour, the OP should already know how that works.
That may have been true in the recent past, but it's super-simple to produce great-sounding recordings without a studio, and with a few mouse clicks, offer the digital tracks for sale with any number of sellers (up to and including iTunes.) Indeed, hiring suitable players is probably the most difficult part of the equation now. It's nice that live drummers are being solicited at all, when programming is an extremely malleable and cost-efficient option.

As for the potential price-war, that's caused by the drummers who might undercut each other. Do I think someone charging $100 for a track will do half the job of someone charging $200? Well, I wouldn't adjust how well or poorly I play based on the pay... I always give 100%. But I also wouldn't go through all of the coordination of learning a song and recording it myself for $100.

Bermuda
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  #18  
Old 04-20-2014, 05:17 PM
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Default Re: Hiring drummers for a project, need drummer advice.

Just hire Bill Ray and be done with it. The guy is an absolute monster, and also a "feel" machine, if that's not too contradictory. You get the very best of both worlds, a very complete drummer.
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  #19  
Old 04-20-2014, 05:45 PM
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Default Re: Hiring drummers for a project, need drummer advice.

I vote for Bill as well. He's already set-up to record drums and can play anything. Trust me, $200/track is a deal.

Hmmm, make it $250... he owes me a steak! :)

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Old 04-20-2014, 06:36 PM
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Default Re: Hiring drummers for a project, need drummer advice.

You guys are just biased. You have no idea what I can do for a song.
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  #21  
Old 04-20-2014, 06:43 PM
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Default Re: Hiring drummers for a project, need drummer advice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by picodon View Post
Not a pro drummer but as a pro salesman I smell an inverse auction trap... Don't get caught guys :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by STXBob View Post
Producer: "I'm looking for a session drummer."

Drummer A: I'll do it for $200.

Drummer B: I'll do it for $150.

Drummer C: I'll do it for $100.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

See how it works? Reverse auction trap.

Not saying the OP is necessarily doing that, but that's what's developing. Drummers, if you want to offer your services, do at least the rates privately. Getting your site URL out there is important, I know, but only the client needs to know your rates.
Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Just hire Bill Ray and be done with it. The guy is an absolute monster, and also a "feel" machine, if that's not too contradictory. You get the very best of both worlds, a very complete drummer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
I vote for Bill as well. He's already set-up to record drums and can play anything. Trust me, $200/track is a deal.

Hmmm, make it $250... he owes me a steak! :)

Bermuda
I'm not sure the OP was looking to get an auction going and I do resent the face that I'm not being called a pro because I offered my services. I;m a really lousy salesman...i tried! it wasn't for me.

My price is set, as is Bills, as is Dave Weckl's, Thomas lang's, travis orbins, etc etc.

I chose my price based on my skill level, the gear I have, my costs etc. It is clear on my site that it is what it is. 85 per track = roughly $150

I would never, ever deliberately undercut another drummer just to get the work. That stuff does go down all throughout this industry from shops to players but IMO it's an awful practice that just devalues what we all do. I heard the story that the drummer on a well known UK pop artists tour got 75 per gig in 10000 seat arenas....the hairdresser got 1500 per night.



I also don't think that this is as easy as choosing the cheapest or most expensive. With any musician it is all about the playing. Obviously it needs to sound good but the player has to fit your songs. You wouldn't get Weckl on a metal track and you wouldn't get Thomas Lang on a straight ahead jazz trio record.

Bill plays great....he'll do a great job.

D
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  #22  
Old 04-20-2014, 07:00 PM
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Default Re: Hiring drummers for a project, need drummer advice.

Oh yeah, don't forget that Bo Eder guy. He's got a great avatar ;) But he's really expensive.
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  #23  
Old 04-20-2014, 08:12 PM
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picodon picodon is offline
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Default Re: Hiring drummers for a project, need drummer advice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by STXBob View Post
Producer: "I'm looking for a session drummer."

Drummer A: I'll do it for $200.

Drummer B: I'll do it for $150.

Drummer C: I'll do it for $100.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

See how it works? Reverse auction trap.

Not saying the OP is necessarily doing that, but that's what's developing. Drummers, if you want to offer your services, do at least the rates privately. Getting your site URL out there is important, I know, but only the client needs to know your rates.
That is exactly what I meant. Prices should be PM'ed in the interest of everyone. I don't think the OP did this on purpose.
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Old 04-20-2014, 08:27 PM
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Default Re: Hiring drummers for a project, need drummer advice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arky View Post
Hmm... I think there's one aspect that is neglected here but it's a crucial one - quality.
And there's not necessarily a direct relation to the track rate of specific drummers. So if the client thinks that for $100, he's getting the same quality as offered by drummer x who'd do it for $200, I think the client is simply dumb. Now if there was a guarantee that price and quality directly match then people could decide how much quality they wanted to have and then choose the drummer accordingly.

These are general considerations though, I didn't relate to or mean to offend anybody specifically. But that's the nature of any market - there's products being offered in various price ranges and there's consumers willing to spend their money on them. And as said, while price can be a general guideline/reference for quality, those parameters don't need to always be in direct proportion.
True, and unless you are sure to be the cheapest on the market, your mission is to first make your customer fall in love with your product, whatever it is, and mention the price only at the very last minute when the decison has already been taken :) this is now way off topic, my fault, but I could not resist chiming in on this issue.
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  #25  
Old 04-21-2014, 05:25 PM
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Midnite Zephyr Midnite Zephyr is offline
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Default Re: Hiring drummers for a project, need drummer advice.

If I was doing a project like that, since apparently drummers are so cheap to hire, I'd get a few different drummers to work on the project and pick the best one.

Personally, I didn't become a drummer so that I can play along to a bunch of garbage music just so I can stay working.
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Last edited by Midnite Zephyr; 04-21-2014 at 06:05 PM.
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  #26  
Old 04-23-2014, 12:02 AM
drum4fun27302 drum4fun27302 is offline
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Default Re: Hiring drummers for a project, need drummer advice.

I would just go here
http://kennyaronoff.com/about/biograph
and be done with it..
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