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  #1  
Old 02-01-2012, 06:02 AM
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Default kick drum rebound

hey guys. does putting something like a pillow against the batter head of the kick drum effect how the rebound of the kick feels? I can't get my pedals to feel good.

Last edited by bmeat; 08-08-2014 at 06:18 PM.
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Old 02-01-2012, 06:16 AM
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Default Re: kick drum rebound

A pillow will stop almost all rebound.
A porthole also helps to stop some rebound.
I use no pillow and a 4 inch or sometimes smaller port in my bass drums.
I like an open sound and some rebound.
Its personal choice.
Experiment and see what you like.
Heads and tuning also make a big difference in rebound.
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Old 02-01-2012, 07:54 PM
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Default Re: kick drum rebound

Whatever setting feels best at first is the one you want to stick with probably. It took me 6 months to get my speed cobras to feel good. Just find the setting that feels good and DONT MESS WITH THE PEDALS. Keeping them one way lets your foot really get to know the ins and outs of the pedal.

As for rebound, i always found that a pillow took away all rebound, but compensated for it by making the surface of the head very firm, so instead of hitting the head and going another 1/2 an inch, you hit the head, have no rebound, and bounce back. I personally like having a pillow in the kick for feel, it feels more "reboundy" to me. If you want more rebound (possibly at the cost of sound quality, i dont know your preference) you can put a head without a port hole on as the reso, that will make the drum considerably more ringy and resonant though, so you will probably need a pillow or dampening to control it.
Plenty of pro drummers use pillows, take Gene Hoglan for example, he plays a loose tuned bass drum with no resonant head, and he manages to cruise 200bpm+ in boots. Pillows have a unique rebound to them, i suggest trying it yourself, try different sizes and "plushes" of pillows, just experiment!
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Old 02-01-2012, 11:52 PM
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Default Re: kick drum rebound

Changing beater angle an make a world of difference. I would maybe change that setting, but try and keep the beater back as far as it is comfortable, so you still have power in your strokes.

I dont know how it would work on a non ported head, but on a ported head having it up against just the reso or the middle doesnt change feel, just sound for me atleast. the more pillow against the batter the bigger the difference for ported heads atleast.
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Old 02-02-2012, 01:37 AM
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Default Re: kick drum rebound

Hi bmeat

There's also the option of using a different muffling device, I use a very small bath towel rolled in a croissant shape resting at the bottom of the batter head inside the drum, secured with 3 little piece of tape, it's just fine for removing the unwanted overtones, It doesn't affect the feel of the pedal/rebound for me. I use a Legacy Empereor on the batter side and an Aquarian Regulator on the reso side.

Alternatively, you can choose a batter/reso head combo that has a build in dampening devices, such as Evans Emad, Aquarian Superkick 2 or Remo PS3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmeat View Post
...thats how i have it now, against the resonate head, it feels a little bit better.
There's a risk that the BD will sound pretty dead a few feet away from the drums, it's how it sound from the front that's important, not so much from the drummer's seating point, I have no damping on the reso head.

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Originally Posted by bmeat View Post
i have my peadals on the middle setting for how flat/vertical the actually pedal is from the ground.
the beaters are about 1 inch above center, felt side (it feels nicer)
the spring are looseish, i like them just about when theyre starting to get tension (again they are pearl powershifters, and theyve got some weight behind them. im pretty sure they are the Pearl P122TW Double Pedal) and i like the beaters striking distance a little closer than 45 degrees away from head, i guess about 30 or 35 degrees.
The seating position, how far or near the pedal you are, the height you're seating, the footbaord angle, the beater angle and height and the spring tension are all part of the 'setting" to be able to play your pedal comfortably in a controlled and accurate manner. the tuning of both heads also is an important factor, I tune my batter head a little bit tighter than most other drummers kits I have played, with the reso even slightly tighter than the batter head.

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Originally Posted by bmeat View Post
...would putting the pillow touching the resonate head vs having the pillow in the center, touching neither head change feel at all, or no, it only effects the sound?
Pillow against the batter head = no or less head vibration, therefore less rebound and a dry flat sounding thud. Pillow in the centre of the drum not touching either heads = cutting overtones, gives an emphasis on the low end pitch of the drums and does not affect the rebound (you get full rebound), it also provides a fuller bass drum sound.

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Originally Posted by bmeat View Post
...and does the angle between the beater and the head really change feel much at all? id imagine they would stop where you foot stops no matter how big of an angle you make, right? or wrong?
IMO, wrong. It's the same approach as playing with your hands, exept that you're limited to the course of the beater, when you lift your foot on the footboard (still keeping contact with the footboard at all times, like holding you sticks) the beater will move towards you, thus increasing the distance of the beater to travel for a given stroke, it is indeed an imporatnt part of stetting the beater angle, to be able to have plenty a choice of dynamics, exactly like you do with your hands, the more the distance from the head the more the power and vice versa.

Hope this helps.
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Old 02-02-2012, 12:47 PM
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Default Re: kick drum rebound

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmeat View Post
so if its against the reso head it wont really effect bounce much? id imagine it would simulate something like a port hole right? its stoping the reso head from sending full vibrations back, yes?
Yes, a pillow resting against the reso would affect the rebound the same way that a port hole does, more or less, if you reduce the vibration of the reso head in any shape or form, including build in dampening devices on reso heads, it will affect the rebound somehow based on a A - B comparison with a totally undampened and unported reso head.
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Old 02-02-2012, 01:05 PM
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Default Re: kick drum rebound

Going beyond the effects of modifying the drum itself, I'd say that bass drums and pedals are in no way subject to the same laws applied to drums struck with sticks because it's a vertical playing surface struck by a mechanical beater pressed by a limb that doesn't have quite nearly as much muscle control as your hand. I would worry much less about where the pillow goes than the settings on the pedal or the tuning of the head.
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Old 02-02-2012, 06:10 PM
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Default Re: kick drum rebound

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldhardsteel View Post
...I'd say that bass drums and pedals are in no way subject to the same laws applied to drums struck with sticks because it's a vertical playing surface struck by a mechanical beater pressed by a limb that doesn't have quite nearly as much muscle control as your hand...
I use to have the same opinion for the first 10 years of drumming, just burying that beater into the head and not thinking about it any further, but upon watching a Simon Phillips educational video some 20 years ago, in which Simon's stating "I use the same approach as with the hands, it's just that they're are a different shape, shoes covering them..."

From that day onwards, I was convinced that such an approach was the one to strive for, playing using rebound and applying the "theorical replica" mouvements of the hands.

At the exeption of finger control, you can apply it the foot/pedal, therefore, the pedal setting is very important for me, as is the tuning, (as much as it's important how you tune your snare and which sticks you choose to use).

Foot = hand, ankle = wrist, leg = forearm, upper leg = upper arm, using your pedal with that approach, linked with the setting of the pedal and how you're seating at the kit, using the "fulcrum" point on the footboard, you'll be amazed how close feet and hands are related, at least it works fine for me. :)
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:44 PM
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Default Re: kick drum rebound

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmeat View Post
...would a small towel or something kill overtones as well as a pillow? if i use a towel i dont have to touch either heads with it...
It's all depends on the sound you want to achieve, a towel folded and positioned to touch both heads by say a couple of inches will certainly remove overtones, but keep an acceptable level of fullness from the drum.

Alternatively, you can check out the Evans EQ-pad, it's a "pillow" with a special desgin that rest on velcro inside the drum and can be positioned in various setting to achieve different level of dampening, the good thing about it, is that the part of the EQ-pad resting on the batter head is not attached to head, when the batter head is stroked, the part touching the head bounces back towards the centre of the shell, thus minimising the effect on the rebound.

http://www.evansdrumheads.com/EvProd...&ProductId=457
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Old 02-03-2012, 07:24 AM
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Default Re: kick drum rebound

Spring tension increases resistance but also increases hw responsive the pedal is. Your problem might be loose springs, it might also be a technique thing. Do you play heel up or down? Do you play at the "sweet spot" is or the top of the pedal? Describe your technique a bit. With proper technique, I can cruize 190+bpm on a head 2 turns past finger tight, sure its hard, but its possible. Use the pedals bounce, nt the heads. Just my opinion though. I would mess with the spring tension, try maxed out. Also the better you describe your technique the more we can help.
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Old 02-03-2012, 10:13 PM
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Default Re: kick drum rebound

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmeat View Post
...is there any advantages of keep your whole foot on the pedal as intended?
Using the sweet spot (fulcrum point) of the footboard is what work best for control, speed, power and accuracy, which for me is about 2/3 to 3/4 up the footboard :)
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Old 02-16-2012, 07:29 AM
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Default Re: kick drum rebound

what kind of pedal do you have?
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Old 02-16-2012, 07:50 AM
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Default Re: kick drum rebound

after skimming most of these posts it seems like its more about your feet than your pedal/kick drum tuning/pillow in your kick... perhaps you should do a few months of dedicated practice, hours every day and see how you progress?
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Old 02-16-2012, 07:43 PM
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Default Re: kick drum rebound

Check that they are on the same setting near the heel plate, that might be it. Thats the only thing i can think of off the top of my head.

As for the jumping, i think what you're talking about is called play. This happens when the spring moves the foot board back faster than the beater, and this can be counteracted by using different technique. Do you keep your foot on the pedal or pull it off? Do you bury the beater or let it come back?
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Old 02-16-2012, 10:16 PM
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Default Re: kick drum rebound

can you take a video showing the "jumping"? that would be very helpful!
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Old 02-26-2012, 06:19 PM
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Default Re: kick drum rebound

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmeat View Post
if you look on the cam on both the pedals, you can see the left one is still hanging much lower, even with my adjustments. what gives?
You have to ensure that the extension between the 2 pedals are connected identicaly to the shaft of both pedals (red circle) and also that you didn't "twist" the extension when inserting the left hand side into the right hand side (yellow circle), there's no reason why your pedals shouldn't be at the same height if you have the same setting on both pedals.

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Old 02-29-2012, 04:02 AM
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Default Re: kick drum rebound

Generally, on the shaft where the extension is attached, there's a recessed area were the securing screws gets into when securing the screw, thus making impossible for the extension to have a "play" or sliding effect, take the extension with the "play" off the shaft and position it correctly, ie: like the other side. If the screws are not positoned within the resessed area, it will be out of sync with the alignement of the other pedal.

Also look at my drawing to check that the two parts of the extension links are properly assembled like fig. A, if you slide one part of the extension into the other one at a third of a turn like fig. B, it will be out of alignement too.

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Old 04-23-2012, 12:46 PM
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Default Re: kick drum rebound

I use a small banket that rests against both heads. Half of the 'solid' effect comes from the muting of the head IMO. While the head might be a bit floppier without something against it, I think it's the loss of note definition/response that makes up a big part of that muddy feeling where half your bass hits get lost and that definitely makes you feel as though there is more of a rebound problem than there actually is. Maybe tighten your batter head a little bit, it's a trade off between a fat note and a nice playing surface.

Also, don't get so picky and antsy that it doesn't feel perfect (I.e what you're used to) you're probably over analyzing. You have to get used to any new setup before you feel at home and that can take time, the more changes you make the more frustrated you'll get. So many drummers don't like this pedal or that pedal because of x and y but really you will adapt to anything (to an extent).
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Last edited by Dre25; 04-23-2012 at 12:58 PM.
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