DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > Drum Technique

Drum Technique Tips - Tricks - Practice - Rudiments - Educational DVDs & Books.....

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 04-14-2012, 05:22 AM
skreg's Avatar
skreg skreg is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 275
Default How to Practice The New Breed

Great to be back on the Drummerworld forum. It's been awhile as over the last year and a half I cut out my practice routines to focus on my athletic life. Now I'm training in Olympic style weightlifting and also making time to practice every day. It took awhile to get everything set up logistically, but it's awesome now!

Anyway, I've decided to jump back into drumming by working with two books:

1. The New Breed

2. Sticking Patterns

I prefer to practice one or two systems consistently rather than jump between several. Sticking Patterns feels great, but I'm having trouble digging into The New Breed.

The difficulty is that I don't know when to call it quits and move onto the next exercise. I have done my fair share of coordination work in the past, so it's not very hard to pick up one of these systems and get things moving pretty decently after a few days. But, I'm finding that playing the exercises PRECISELY and WITHOUT ANY MISTAKES is very difficult. They are also very hard to bring up-tempo, especially in the later readings. My foot just doesn't push out sixteenth note patterns very fast!

I'm willing to take the time to master a system, but I CAN'T TELL when I have it mastered!

Subjectively, I can tell when I can "groove" on a pattern while playing music. That's really not that hard to do after even a few days with any of the systems. However, being able to sight read with 100% accuracy seems virtually impossible even with the simpler systems in the book.

Is there any reason to grind out these exercises any further after I feel comfortable using them in my music?

Thanks!

-sheldon
__________________
Visit my drum blog.
Visit my psychology blog.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-14-2012, 06:25 AM
Bo Eder's Avatar
Bo Eder Bo Eder is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 11,443
Default Re: How to Practice The New Breed

I am in no way a master of the New Breed, I just have it and use it as a reading text when I want to blow my own mind ;)

But I don't think Gary Chester meant it as a book where you would use what he's written and actually use it within music. I thought it was a strictly a reading book, meaning that, even if you can't play his systems perfectly, when you go to read music on the bandstand for a gig, you'll be over-prepared. For the same reasons people don't play exercises out of "Stick Control" for a recital - their use is just to make you read crazier stuff than you'd see in real life.

I'm just happy to be able to play the patterns and get through as much of the reading text as I can - which is like the first few systems, and the first few pages of reading. I did notice that my reading did improve when I played in the college jazz band and in other projects since no one writes drum parts that complicated!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-14-2012, 04:13 PM
The Parcher The Parcher is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 26
Default Re: How to Practice The New Breed

Quote:
Originally Posted by skreg View Post
Great to be back on the Drummerworld forum. It's been awhile as over the last year and a half I cut out my practice routines to focus on my athletic life. Now I'm training in Olympic style weightlifting and also making time to practice every day. It took awhile to get everything set up logistically, but it's awesome now!

Anyway, I've decided to jump back into drumming by working with two books:

1. The New Breed

2. Sticking Patterns

I prefer to practice one or two systems consistently rather than jump between several. Sticking Patterns feels great, but I'm having trouble digging into The New Breed.

The difficulty is that I don't know when to call it quits and move onto the next exercise. I have done my fair share of coordination work in the past, so it's not very hard to pick up one of these systems and get things moving pretty decently after a few days. But, I'm finding that playing the exercises PRECISELY and WITHOUT ANY MISTAKES is very difficult. They are also very hard to bring up-tempo, especially in the later readings. My foot just doesn't push out sixteenth note patterns very fast!

I'm willing to take the time to master a system, but I CAN'T TELL when I have it mastered!

Subjectively, I can tell when I can "groove" on a pattern while playing music. That's really not that hard to do after even a few days with any of the systems. However, being able to sight read with 100% accuracy seems virtually impossible even with the simpler systems in the book.

Is there any reason to grind out these exercises any further after I feel comfortable using them in my music?

Thanks!

-sheldon
I would get to where you feel comfortable playing the systems and can play the melodies pretty good, practice it for a while, then move on. Come back to it later.

I'm the same way as you though. I really am not a good reader, so I make a few mistakes here and there and feel like I need to nail everything, but if I move on and come back later, then usually I will have a much easier time. (I wish I would have taken this advice many moons ago when I tried 4-way coordination and never made it past the first section.)

I've been working out of New Breed for a few weeks and it's really showing marked improvements in my coordination, reading, and timing. I'll start a system thinking "there's no way" and lo-and-behold the next day I am grooving to it, (while sounding like a complete idiot singing to the quarter notes.) Then, the next day I'll be grooving to it open-handed... astounding really.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-14-2012, 04:59 PM
uniin's Avatar
uniin uniin is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Blue Mountains, Australia
Posts: 1,216
Default Re: How to Practice The New Breed

i think when you can get every single 4-way coordinations, with the voice (so 5 way) in all the different ways, at about 160+ bpm then you've mastered it..... so i say don't daudle if you've got something down already at around 100~120, move on to the next system or page of reading and come back to it in a week and see if you can push that old page a bit quicker..
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-14-2012, 07:42 PM
skreg's Avatar
skreg skreg is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 275
Default Re: How to Practice The New Breed

Quote:
Originally Posted by uniin View Post
i think when you can get every single 4-way coordinations, with the voice (so 5 way) in all the different ways, at about 160+ bpm then you've mastered it..... so i say don't daudle if you've got something down already at around 100~120, move on to the next system or page of reading and come back to it in a week and see if you can push that old page a bit quicker..
Can you really play something like System 2, reading exercise V-A at 160 bpm? That's continuous 16th notes with the lead hand and long stings of 16th notes on the kick drum, too. I'm lucky if I can pull it off at half that speed most days : )
__________________
Visit my drum blog.
Visit my psychology blog.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-14-2012, 09:52 PM
The Parcher The Parcher is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 26
Default Re: How to Practice The New Breed

8th notes at 160bpm I think would be a good goal. I hope that's what he was thinking... I've been pushing 140bpm 8th notes and it's giving my left hand a good workout.

Check out the tempo goals for the 'melodic coordination' section of "4-way coordination" 120 HALF NOTES! Unreal! They even make reference to the fact that you should be able to go faster than that. I can just barely play 8th notes with one hand at that speed, let alone all 4 limbs.

Really just do whatever feels reasonable to you, and push it a bit.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-15-2012, 10:00 AM
uniin's Avatar
uniin uniin is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Blue Mountains, Australia
Posts: 1,216
Default Re: How to Practice The New Breed

yes 8th notes... i can hit 8th note triplets with confidence on one hand at 160, but no way could i do 16th notes.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-15-2012, 12:08 PM
Talismanis Talismanis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 180
Default Re: How to Practice The New Breed

120bpm half notes shouldn't be hard at all, unless i'm wrong; but that's the same as 60bpm quarter notes, no? 120bpm minims.
__________________
Joining the Army as a musician. Yay!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-15-2012, 12:33 PM
samthebeat's Avatar
samthebeat samthebeat is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: england
Posts: 653
Default Re: How to Practice The New Breed

There is a lot of cross training in that book. You are practising the same bass drum patterns with system. I just went through it all 60bpm. I went back and did the whole lot at 100bpm. Some of the bars are easier to get faster than others, it depends on the indiviudal bars, 8ths or 16ths, doubles triples, the density of the bass drums. It would be nice to able to go right im going to work all these bars upto 180bpm but i dont, its to complicated to do that, you would be insane if you could do this.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-15-2012, 05:32 PM
toddbishop toddbishop is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,474
Default Re: How to Practice The New Breed

Quote:
Originally Posted by skreg View Post
The difficulty is that I don't know when to call it quits and move onto the next exercise. I have done my fair share of coordination work in the past, so it's not very hard to pick up one of these systems and get things moving pretty decently after a few days. But, I'm finding that playing the exercises PRECISELY and WITHOUT ANY MISTAKES is very difficult. They are also very hard to bring up-tempo, especially in the later readings. My foot just doesn't push out sixteenth note patterns very fast!
A few things:
- Maybe you should work on your bass drum in a simpler format, absent the extremely challenging reading issues in NB.
- There's nothing wrong with simplifying as you increase the tempo- or at least pick systems that are appropriate for faster tempos. Listen to the musical effect of the exercise at the tempo in question, and decide if you really need to go there.
- I guess it depends on the quality of your mistakes. If a listener wouldn't be able to tell that you had made a reading mistake, you can feel OK about moving on.

Quote:
I'm willing to take the time to master a system, but I CAN'T TELL when I have it mastered!
If you can't tell if you've mastered an exercise, it means you're not close yet. Then again, as Bo said, you don't necessarily have to have these things down flawlessly for them to have a positive effect on your playing- both in reading and coordination, and concentration, and other things. There's also a big difference between mastering an exercise and mastering music.

Really, my feeling about New Breed is that it is kind of too much book for daily life. It demands a whole lot of time, which I think for most players might be better spent doing other things. Truly mastering just one of the systems- any of them- with all of the reading, through a practical range of tempos is actually a big deal.
__________________
Visit: Cruise Ship Drummer! - a drumming blog
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-15-2012, 06:02 PM
Numberless's Avatar
Numberless Numberless is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Puerto Rico
Posts: 1,355
Default Re: How to Practice The New Breed

My teacher feels the same way as Todd, although you could be all your life working on it, he told me to just focus on the first couple of systems and the readings 2 thru 4, since these are the most musical ones and these are the figures that are most likely to be used in a musical setting. After I had those down pretty good, then I could check out whatever I wanted.
__________________
you inspire the ugliest things
drum vids-->http://www.youtube.com/user/Lastdragonrider88
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-15-2012, 06:18 PM
The Parcher The Parcher is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 26
Default Re: How to Practice The New Breed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talismanis View Post
120bpm half notes shouldn't be hard at all, unless i'm wrong; but that's the same as 60bpm quarter notes, no? 120bpm minims.
Playing eighth notes at '120bpm half notes' is 480 hits a minute, I think you have it reversed.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-15-2012, 08:10 PM
samthebeat's Avatar
samthebeat samthebeat is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: england
Posts: 653
Default Re: How to Practice The New Breed

No mate 60bpm quaters, 120 halfs 240 wholes would sounds the same. Half notes are not 8th notes, which would sound same at 30bpm as 60bpm quaters.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-15-2012, 11:35 PM
The Parcher The Parcher is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 26
Default Re: How to Practice The New Breed

Really? I guess that is why I am thinking that it's unrealistic, but I'm really having trouble conceptualizing this then.

Are there not (4) eighth notes in a half note?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-16-2012, 05:48 AM
redrzewski redrzewski is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3
Default Re: How to Practice The New Breed

I'm pretty sure its the other way.

60 bpm for quarters is 60 quarters per minute.

30 bpm for half notes is 30 half notes per minute. Since there are 2 quarters per half, that'll also be 60 quarters per minute.

Last edited by redrzewski; 04-16-2012 at 06:01 AM. Reason: spelling
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04-17-2012, 07:01 PM
skreg's Avatar
skreg skreg is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 275
Default Re: How to Practice The New Breed

Thanks Todd and Numberless.

I really appreciate your thoughts on the level of demand required to work through The New Breed. Drumming - like any skill - requires regular practice and dedication. While it is certainly a challenge, The New Breed isn't much different from other systems I've worked in terms of commitment.

I would certainly be interested in finding a way to make progress on the kit without having to spend 15+ hours per week practicing. But, the instrument is so physically involved that I don't see any way around this level of dedication.

More thoughts later . . .

-sheldon
__________________
Visit my drum blog.
Visit my psychology blog.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-23-2012, 08:41 PM
skreg's Avatar
skreg skreg is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 275
Default Re: How to Practice The New Breed

One of things I'm noticing about practicing The New Breed is that the coordination is becoming deeply seated in my mind. After spending a certain amount of time with a system, they really do become effortless no matter what kind of phrasing comes through your mind while playing.

Furthermore, the grooves stay very solid. I've done my fair share of work on timing, but if the coordination isn't present, then timing becomes impossible. The New Breed seems to make the coordination so natural that one can focus on all the other aspects of groove - dynamics, timing, etc. It's really a great feeling.

I also just generally feel more relaxed and in control while playing. When fills approach I don't lose my head, when I need to switch my snare on or off everything is cool. The groove keeps moving forward because the momentum isn't broken. I think a lot of this has to do with Gary's emphasis on singing.

-sheldon
__________________
Visit my drum blog.
Visit my psychology blog.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-26-2012, 04:55 PM
drumichigan drumichigan is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2
Default Re: How to Practice The New Breed

What's up guys?

Just a few thoughts about practicing the New Breed since I am working through this method book currently. This is a book that you can work on for years and years and only hit the tip of the iceberg. From my personal experience I do not believe that working just the systems that are illustrated in the book is the best way to max out this book. Not sure if any of you have purchased The New Breed 2 but that book actually describes one of the best ways to work with the original book. Let's say you are going through and find a bar or two that you really like on the melody page, use that bar to construct a system of your own. (This is the pattern portion of The New Breed Two). You can combine bars together to make your own systems that are much more complex. I know this is very tedious and will require lots of slow practice but if you can master these more complicated coordination exercises then it will make doing things like LF clave or soloing over an ostinato much easier. Also, look deeper into each measure. You can "fill in" the rhythms in the measures, add rudiments, or change the voices to other drums -- make short notes (sixteenth notes) a tom note and long notes (eighth notes) a cymbal beat, etc. There is really limitless combinations, it really just depends on your level of imagination and creativity. Hope this was some help!
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04-26-2012, 05:04 PM
Anthony Amodeo
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: How to Practice The New Breed

Quote:
Originally Posted by drumichigan View Post
What's up guys?

Just a few thoughts about practicing the New Breed since I am working through this method book currently. This is a book that you can work on for years and years and only hit the tip of the iceberg. From my personal experience I do not believe that working just the systems that are illustrated in the book is the best way to max out this book. Not sure if any of you have purchased The New Breed 2 but that book actually describes one of the best ways to work with the original book. Let's say you are going through and find a bar or two that you really like on the melody page, use that bar to construct a system of your own. (This is the pattern portion of The New Breed Two). You can combine bars together to make your own systems that are much more complex. I know this is very tedious and will require lots of slow practice but if you can master these more complicated coordination exercises then it will make doing things like LF clave or soloing over an ostinato much easier. Also, look deeper into each measure. You can "fill in" the rhythms in the measures, add rudiments, or change the voices to other drums -- make short notes (sixteenth notes) a tom note and long notes (eighth notes) a cymbal beat, etc. There is really limitless combinations, it really just depends on your level of imagination and creativity. Hope this was some help!
I have been sort of picking up the New Breed and putting it back down for years ...kind of returning to it every few months and working on it

I do not own the second one

do you think someone should work the whole first one before owning the second ?

I guess what Im saying is....is New Breed II a continuation of the first or is it its own book introducing new ideas?
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04-26-2012, 06:33 PM
drumichigan drumichigan is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2
Default Re: How to Practice The New Breed

I wanted to quickly respond to the question some people have posted on here about "how do I know that I have mastered a system?" Personally there is one sure way to know if you have mastered something or not. All you need to do is ask yourself if the things you are practicing, are you implementing them in your drum vocabulary? Are you just playing exercises and improving your time? Or are you actually using these things when you play. The best way for me to tell this is when I sit down to practice. I usually spend 5 or so minutes just goofing around on the kit before I "get serious". IF you find yourself going back to your "regular beats" or playing that same groove you always play, then you haven't mastered the systems yet. These systems should change the way you play and that will take lots and lots of time. AND, if you feel like your playing hasn't changed, then you need to change the systems that you practice. This book requires extreme dedication because it is so in depth but we are talking about rewriting your mental hard drive. Your brain has been wired one way and we are trying to find your weaknesses and make them your strengths. As a result, it will be very very tedious. LOL

The New Breed 2 is definitely a continuation of the first so you do not need to work all of the first one to begin studying the second. Personally I think the New Breed 2 is more complete and I tend to use that book more. It has a few added things in it that I immediately notice that will help you tackle those systems that are really complex. Usually in order to be able to play some of those other worldly systems you may only be able to add one note at a time. There are little "Warm up" sections that help you tackle the basics of each new section that you will be encountering. Also there is the "patterns" section, which is like what I described to you all about picking specific bars and combining them together for the insane 4 way coordination. In addition to the new systems that are available there is a whole section on 12/8, 6/8 and odd time signatures.

I love this book, I know it's really frustrating but I don't get the same kind of mental work out with any other book.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 04-27-2012, 07:16 PM
Grover Drums Grover Drums is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 16
Default Re: How to Practice The New Breed

i cant really see mastering the systems. i just dont know of any music besides fusion where they would work. the best thing for me is to practice them and fragments or parts of them eventually filter into your playing. 8ths or quaters on the hat or ride 2 & 4 on snare LF quaters with kick reading the melody opens up enough to really make things fun. also gets your foot together.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 05-31-2012, 12:07 AM
cheekydollar cheekydollar is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 12
Default Re: How to Practice The New Breed

Hi all,

I have just picked up the New Breed and have the following question.

If I am starting with System 1 should I try and master all 10 melodies before moving on to system 2? Or should you try and master a few melodies with various systems?

Did Gary himself suggest what is best, it doesnt seem to say in the book..unless im missing something! It just says once you have mastered melodies 1+2 move on to 3+4 but nothing after that.

Opinions most welcome!

Thanks

Joe
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 06-02-2012, 04:53 AM
skreg's Avatar
skreg skreg is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 275
Default Re: How to Practice The New Breed

Dropping in to update and drop in a few responses to the thoughts above.

First of all, thanks everybody for your thoughts. It's all really, really helpful. Toddbishop's advice to isolate the right foot was especially important - I actually got the same advice from my teacher that week. I just crank out sets of 2, then sets of 3, and then sets of 4 16th notes for about 10 minutes during each of my practice sessions. I work at as high a tempo as possible, both right and left feet. It's really making a big difference in my grooves and my ability to work the systems.

Right now I'm booking about 10 hours a week behind the kit practicing. It's all in the morning, when I'm in peak zone time, so I'm actually making progress a lot faster than I was expecting. I have chosen to work one system at a time. Once I get to the later pages of reading (IV and up) I start working simultaneously on the next system I find interesting, and split my time. This is because my right foot gets tired once I have to crank out sets of 3+ sixteenth notes! Working on two systems, I can alternate and give my foot a break.

I don't do any warming up other than singles with my hands/feet a few times a week - I just jump right into the system I'm working on. After about 20 minutes, things are really grooving and I'll stop and use the groove on whatever song is appropriate in my collection. So, I always jump right into USING the system with music as soon as it feels natural. Once I play a few songs, I'll jump back into the system and keep working the reading for maybe another 15-20 minutes. Then I'll either play more music or work on learning a fill. By that time it's time for me to leave and go to work.

With this strategy my playing has become the best it's ever been, and I can master a system well enough to really, really groove it with the music I'm playing. When I play music, I try to also work in the fills I'm practicing so that I can move them into the system without interruption of the left foot, etc. If I drop the groove, then I'll stop the music and work things out slowly.

The whole thing is working really, really well and I would definitely advocate this kind of routine for anybody with limited time.

-sheldon
__________________
Visit my drum blog.
Visit my psychology blog.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 06-02-2012, 04:31 PM
mrmike's Avatar
mrmike mrmike is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Monroe, Washington
Posts: 666
Default Re: How to Practice The New Breed

I am thinking about jumping in to this book. It seems to be set up for an extra floor tom and ride cymbal on the left and an extra hi hat on the right. Has anyone adapted this system to a more traditional setup?
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 06-02-2012, 07:39 PM
Odd-Arne Oseberg's Avatar
Odd-Arne Oseberg Odd-Arne Oseberg is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sykkylven, Møre og Romsdal, Norway
Posts: 732
Default Re: How to Practice The New Breed

Pick an ostinato that isn't too hard and that will bethe most useful for you and your situation right now. Work on it regularly until it's a natural and useful part of your musical vocabulary. Work in different tempos and make it feel good. Utilize it around your whole kit. Rinse and repeat.
__________________
Bring back the Zildjian Colaiuta stick!
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 06-02-2012, 10:55 PM
skreg's Avatar
skreg skreg is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 275
Default Re: How to Practice The New Breed

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmike View Post
I am thinking about jumping in to this book. It seems to be set up for an extra floor tom and ride cymbal on the left and an extra hi hat on the right. Has anyone adapted this system to a more traditional setup?
Yes mrmike, it's very easy to just work on the systems which do not require the extra gear. Bass, kick, ride, and hat are all you really need to get started - plenty of work there, too.

-sheldon
__________________
Visit my drum blog.
Visit my psychology blog.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com