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  #1  
Old 04-01-2012, 05:20 PM
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Chunky Chunky is offline
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Default Clown Pockets

Ok, here's a demo of my bands new song.
We called it Clown Pockets for a laugh as you need some serious pocket to do the verses justice.
We have lyrics, we just haven't recorded them yet.
I HATE, HATE, HATE the part I play on the splash in the second verse but, the guitarist insisted that it stays. Sounds sloppy to me...

Any feedback would be much appreciated. Please don't be too mean! lol

http://youtu.be/aOt9Q680kzQ
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  #2  
Old 04-01-2012, 06:23 PM
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Default Re: Clown Pockets

This thread probably should be placed under "your place", "your playing" section of this forum.

Dennis
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  #3  
Old 04-01-2012, 06:30 PM
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Default Re: Clown Pockets

your sound is very VInnie Paul

nice playing brother

rock solid
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  #4  
Old 04-01-2012, 06:47 PM
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Default Re: Clown Pockets

Wow. Great tune, and awesome playing!
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  #5  
Old 04-01-2012, 06:49 PM
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Default Re: Clown Pockets

I really enjoyed your playing Chunk! I definitely agree with the Gvda, your sound is very Vinnie. How were the drums recorded?

Also I didn't think the splash cymbal part was sloppy. I rather liked it lol.

-Kyle
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  #6  
Old 04-01-2012, 09:28 PM
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Default Re: Clown Pockets

Sorry for posting in the wrong place.

And thanks for the kind words!

As for recording *takes deep breath*
I record our stuff on my digital kit and either use Superior Drummer or Battery 3.
The kit you hear on this was triggered through battery 3 and all the samplesbare my own.
Me andbthe guitarist spent a couple of days recording multiple velocity samples of each drum and cymbal from my kit then, I locked myself in my room for about a month and enginered them, cut them up, mapped them then tweaked them to suit my playing.

I don't have catchable e-cymbals so whenever I do a catch I have to go into the midi track and insert the catches, which is a pain.
For some reason when I record I still catch the cymbals. Old habbits die hard!
(feels awful when they don't mute).

We've just got ourselves a building so we're moving all our gear and recording equipment in so, we have the option to record my acoustic kit in future. although I strongly suspect that the set-up we are using now will always suit our current style best. But atleast we can record acoustic kit for other stuff 'cos me and the guitarist love to funk it up!

I'm going to be doing some video diaries of our recording sessions and maybe a few tuition videos on some of the parts for beginners and stuff.

Glad you didn't mind the splash as it's had me cringing when showing people!
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Old 04-02-2012, 05:54 AM
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Default Re: Clown Pockets

I'll make a comment once you get Bermuda or Bernhard to move this thread to Your Playing :)
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  #8  
Old 04-02-2012, 10:40 AM
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Default Re: Clown Pockets

I agree with Polly. Haven't listened to it yet but I will!
Well Chunky, with over 100 posts on this forum one might expect you to be familiar with where to post your playing... just blahblahing. ---- I'll be back in the "Your Playing" section ;-)
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  #9  
Old 04-02-2012, 12:42 PM
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Default Re: Clown Pockets

Impressive stuff! Excellent drumming.
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  #10  
Old 04-02-2012, 02:00 PM
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Default Re: Clown Pockets

Thanks, can anyone tell me how I go about getting this thread moved to 'your playing'? I haven't the slightest clue.
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  #11  
Old 04-02-2012, 02:36 PM
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Default Re: Clown Pockets

Sure - become an administrator ;-)
Seriously, drop Bernhard or bermuda a PM and they'll move it into the appropriate section.
(I feel bad for not having checked out your music yet.)
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  #12  
Old 04-02-2012, 03:03 PM
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Default Re: Clown Pockets

Moved... carry on!

Bermuda
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  #13  
Old 04-02-2012, 03:20 PM
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Default Re: Clown Pockets

Thanks Jon.

Not my style but deadly drumming, Chunky, especially your bass drum work. No idea how you remembered the arrangement either. Definitely walking the walk!
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Old 04-02-2012, 03:27 PM
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Default Re: Clown Pockets

Wow, as good as I expected/hoped but quite different in sound than what I assumed.

You know you can play, man! Cool & precise drumming!
Sound-wise I think there's too much reverb/ambience on the cymbals, and overall the drums could be mixed slightly more transparent/present (more treble).

Yeah... That more "vivid" stuff from 3.00 was what I was expecting, but earlier!! Honestly I was missing some "confusion" or quick fills but you started delivering that stuff later on ;-)
Hmm... I was missing some more toms, probably didn't hear them well due to the mix.

I also like the guitar stuff. Not too "modern" (= trendy, over the top wannabe "hard" riffs - you know what I mean)) but the way good metal should sound like IMO (guitars not overly distorted, and not too much trebles going on). Also cool utilization of some higher open strings ringing on - I like that (I'm doing the same on some parts of my orig. music.) Does your guitarist use a 7-string? I think I heard a B flat as the lowest guitar note (I guess that's the open string) so it seems your guitarist either downtunes his 7 or uses an extremely low tuning on a regular 6-string guitar.

One very crucial aspect: the vocals - they have an extreme impact on the overall perception of a piece of music. In my case this could range from "so cool stuff but the singer spoils everything" to "cool stuff AND great vocals". So unless I've heard the vocal version I couldn't give my final judgement but so far it looks quite good! Hopefully there won't be any fry or grunt vocals, will there? ;-)
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  #15  
Old 04-02-2012, 03:53 PM
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Default Re: Clown Pockets

Thanks Bermuda!

And thanks for the kind words people.
We're going to be changing drum sound in the near future as I think the kit in general.is a little reverby. There isn't reverb on it but, it's all been way too compressed then when.it comes to mastering it's knocked everything out of the sweet spot.
I'll bear that in mind about the toms, I don't want stuff getting lost in the mix.

As for guitar, our guitarist switches between 6 and 7 string, ths track is 7 string and drop tuned to A I think, that's the tuning of our lowest stuff.
He's not a fan of more distortion equals more heavy, and neither am I. I think you lose clarity that way.
Maybe it's a sign of getting old or something but I think a guitar sounds heavier and has more power when you can hear the notes.
The same way I used to think blast beats equals fast song, now I think it kills the pace. But maybe I'm just making excuses 'cos I'm lazy now! Lol.

As for vocals, It's either going to make people like us or hate us, we don't have the usual monotone sub-sonic grunts. Our singer loves glam rock! Lol, so he can sing. That's not to say he sings glam over this stuff but he has a tune and only really growls it up on the really aggressive parts and even them it's not chris barns style.

I have an old music video of us on our youtube, it's slightly lighter stuff but you can check the vocalist out. I'll post it when I find it and work out how to copy and paste on my phone (had to go to my parents to do this one).
The sound and production is cack mind.

Thanks again for the kind words and constructive critisism, next demo you hear you might just hear some of your advice in our production :)
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  #16  
Old 04-02-2012, 04:08 PM
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Default Re: Clown Pockets

Not my genre, so no useful critique from me, but I did like the overall vibe. A nice combination of throttled back aggression & musicality. Ok, the drum sounds bug me, but they do on every recording in this genre, it's just not me. I'd love it if a band of your calibre would use a non close mic'd acoustic kit, spending time on room acoustics & mic placement rather than samples, triggers, & plugins. I understand the practicalities, & the desire for ultra definition, but it's just an old fart's wish. I think the juxtaposition of blatant acoustic kit vibe and ultra controlled everything else would be a unique & worthwhile departure from the expected.

As it stands, it's a bloody good piece of composition & performance/programming.
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  #17  
Old 04-02-2012, 05:13 PM
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Default Re: Clown Pockets

I like it.

Too many metal bands just start out at 11 with blast beats and have no where from there because they spent it all in the first 4 bars.

This actually has grooves and sounds like a song and not just 4-5 minutes of "arrgghh." over a double bass roll.

Reminds me a bit of of Pantera.
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  #18  
Old 04-02-2012, 05:37 PM
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Default Re: Clown Pockets

great playing. nice grooves.

i like the snare sound but it seems to be getting lost in the mix. the kick sounds right up front, but the snare sounds a little distant to me. it's more of a timbre thing, i think. i don't know if merely bumping the snare in the mix would take care of it.

Quote:
I think the juxtaposition of blatant acoustic kit vibe and ultra controlled everything else would be a unique & worthwhile departure from the expected.
totally agree with KIS here, and i am a fan of metal. i don't blame you for going this route though, chunky. recording drum tracks is extremely challenging, and if you want this kind of punch and definition, good luck getting it with an all-acoustic kit recording if you can't afford a world class recording studio (live room)/engineer/producer! you pretty much have to go all midi or use 'sample replacement' OR you have to embrace a low-fi sound that is miles away from the sound you're currently going for.

on the music: good riffs, good drumming. it's well executed. i'm not personally wowed by the composition here. i feel like i've heard all of this before... and i could see this getting lost in a sea of djent that's out there today. BUT that certainly could change with vocals, though! and also i'm somewhat jaded by metal these days and i'm extremely selective about what i listen to in terms of metal. so that could just be my own taste.

keep up the good work and best of luck to you
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  #19  
Old 04-02-2012, 05:49 PM
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Default Re: Clown Pockets

Big props Chunk o' Funk

Well beyond my abilities. Nice drumming man.
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  #20  
Old 04-02-2012, 09:19 PM
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Default Re: Clown Pockets

Wow Chunky, some very nice licks in there, not very much my type of music nowadays, but your drumming is seriously impressive, I love the 30 seconds section starting at 3:30, very cool, as is the final of the song, now I want to beat the sh**t out of my drums after hearing your song, if I break anything it'll be your fault, my old faithful Tama is not used to this kind of beating up, lol :))
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Old 04-02-2012, 09:49 PM
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Default Re: Clown Pockets

definitely has the "cowboys from hell" vibe....sounds great
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  #22  
Old 04-02-2012, 10:49 PM
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Default Re: Clown Pockets

Thanks very much people, I really appreciate it. I was expecting to get destroyed to be honest. So many great players on here.

I love Pantera so I'm pretty chuffed with that!
And I'm glad you's have pointed out the parts of ny sound you don't like as I've been a bit indecisive (in denial) about the snare and toms, so I think I'll bite the bullet and change my sound.

As for the triggering, I get what you mean, I'm forever moaning to the band that I'm sacrificing the nice subtleties etc but, in the end if I recorded solely on an acoustic I would be selfish. I'd be sacrificing the punch of the whole sound just to have nice dynamic subleties in a breakdown that don't last THAT long and don't happen in every song.
It's a real pain but, something had to give.
Atleast I still have dynamics should I want/need them but, I can't have my cake AND eat it.

Does anyone else have to make sacrifices with sound, live or recorded?
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Old 04-02-2012, 11:09 PM
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Default Re: Clown Pockets

Love it man, great work.
Great solid, strong groove going in the song as well. Something alot of djent bands lack. Not just breakdown after breakdown after breakdown.
With some vocals on top of it, it should prove itself to be an awesome track.

Although, is there any bass? From what I hear, its either not there or not loud enough.
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Old 04-03-2012, 10:22 PM
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Default Re: Clown Pockets

Quote:
Originally Posted by metal overlord View Post
Love it man, great work.
Great solid, strong groove going in the song as well. Something alot of djent bands lack. Not just breakdown after breakdown after breakdown.
With some vocals on top of it, it should prove itself to be an awesome track.

Although, is there any bass? From what I hear, its either not there or not loud enough.
Thanks, I appreciate it!

There is actually alot of bass on the track, the version before thatnthe bass swamped the mix.
It's locked in pretty tight with the guitar so you won't he able to distinguish the low end but, believe me you'd notice if we took it out.
You should be able to hear the high end percussive pops and chings of the bass in the mix no problem though?

Have another listen then tell me if you still can't hear it. It's right up there.

Anyone else struggling to pick out the bass?
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Old 04-04-2012, 08:48 PM
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Default Re: Clown Pockets

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunky - Hellraizer View Post
Thanks, I appreciate it!
Anyone else struggling to pick out the bass?
Well Chunk, I had to put it through my studio monitors to really hear it, and I think that the problem with the bass is definition. The low end is there (and my God, it's beautiful) but the attack seems lacking. That low end is supppper thick though:)

-Kyle
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Old 04-09-2012, 12:31 AM
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Default Re: Clown Pockets

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Scorpio View Post
Well Chunk, I had to put it through my studio monitors to really hear it, and I think that the problem with the bass is definition. The low end is there (and my God, it's beautiful) but the attack seems lacking. That low end is supppper thick though:)

-Kyle
Haha, thanks! That super low end is an expensive sound! seems to have taken us ages to get that rich low-end in our mixes.
As for the top end, we'll have to experiment a bit more. It's tough as it's one or the other with metal alot of the time. When we had more of the high end on the bass up and the nice percussive sounds of the strings it took alot of the balls away from the guitar and we lost that attack and power.
But a nice bass sounds so very good! It's awful having to choose and I'm sure there are much better producers out there than us who CAN get the best of both.
But for now... More experimentation and tough choices.
We did single out frequencies and made sure everyone had there own space but it's damn hard to get everything just right.

Any tips?
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Old 04-09-2012, 02:54 AM
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Default Re: Clown Pockets

I am certainly out of my league here (sick song by the way) but I agree with the comments on the sound mentioned here and I wonder if the answer would be th just take some of the volume out of the ambient cymbal sounds (riding a crash or china) for the lenght of it.

I am not sure how complicated it it to change the sound/ re-mix this to try it but I think it would bring the low up inadvertently and allow the focus to be on the solid playing and tuning. Just too crashy for my ears. Might give it a more organic vibe too- less engineered.

How old are you chunky? This is incredible if you are a high schooler (you mentioned asking your parents)
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Old 04-09-2012, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolate View Post
How old are you chunky?
Yes... And how do you look like?
You know there's a Pic of yourself thread in the Your Place -> introduce Yourself section. Do post some pics of you, please ;-) I'm curious...

EDIT
Haha - you already gave the age info (27 y.o.), in a thread you created in the Introduce Yourself section (which I haven't done myself so far):
http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=88692
But still you could provide pictures ;-)
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  #29  
Old 04-09-2012, 07:13 PM
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Default Re: Clown Pockets

Thanks people, yeah I think we may have went too far in the opposite direction, our earlier stuff had near-silent cymbals. Same with bass, we had no bass on early stuff then had to dumb it down 'cos we went mental with it. Nearly shook the wheels off my car!

I'm 27 years old, just mentioned my parents as I had to go down to their's to upload the song as I don't have internet at my place, just using phone at the minute.

Me and the guitsrist were self-taught on cubase until we discovered the vast amounts of tuition vids on youtube and knowledgeable folk on forums like these. Been recording nearly as long as I've been playing (12 years) and it feels like we're only just starting to get our heads around things and know enough about it to understand some of the technical chat and frequency space malarky, it's crazy.
Could have been alot further if we got on here and youtube earlier. Wasted years.

Our mixes go in phases too, depending what mood we're in and what we're listening to at the time. Our old stuff is cack, I should post a music vid but I'm embaressed!

And you HAVE seen me! My avatar is a pic of me. Admittedely with a mask on... It's a shot from one of our photoshoots.
I've got the same gettup on in a music vid of ours.
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Old 04-10-2012, 04:01 AM
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Default Re: Clown Pockets

Just to quantify my comments- I am no where near your talent level and ten years older nor do I have a grip (think I am speaking for several of the posters on this thread) on the style of music youre playing and what is trending... I am always after a more classic sound like STP or soundgarden when it comes to what I consider metal.. Just a real clean mix that allows the each instrument to be heard.

That may not be what the music calls for so let me know if I am out of line or not relevant.
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  #31  
Old 04-10-2012, 05:13 AM
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Default Re: Clown Pockets

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunky - Hellraizer View Post
Haha, thanks! That super low end is an expensive sound! seems to have taken us ages to get that rich low-end in our mixes.
As for the top end, we'll have to experiment a bit more. It's tough as it's one or the other with metal alot of the time. When we had more of the high end on the bass up and the nice percussive sounds of the strings it took alot of the balls away from the guitar and we lost that attack and power.
But a nice bass sounds so very good! It's awful having to choose and I'm sure there are much better producers out there than us who CAN get the best of both.
But for now... More experimentation and tough choices.
We did single out frequencies and made sure everyone had there own space but it's damn hard to get everything just right.

Any tips?
I think a combo of EQ and compression would do it. At least that's where I'd start.

EQ wise, try to find where the high-end of the bass is really rich, and then do a mild EQ cut in the same frequency on the guitars, and maybe even in the kick and vocals. But it's a balance, because you definitely don't want to lose the balls of the guitars.

Compression wise, try taking the dry track and then add a compressor. Then set the attack time long enough so the initial pop of the bass comes through, and the release time short enough so it doesn't effect the next note. Ratio in the 3:1-5:1 range (that's really a crapshoot as I don't know your tracks lol.)

Or you could copy the bass to another track and add a distortion plug in. Then mix the copied track back in until the balance seems right. This might add some high frequency information to the bass without taking away the meat of the guitars.

I hope this helps you out! And worse comes to worse you've still got a great mix already! The definition of the bass really isn't that big of a deal, because the guitars are carrying the attack very well. I'm just a geek for bassline's lol.
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  #32  
Old 04-10-2012, 05:38 AM
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Default Re: Clown Pockets

Great playing! Amazing double kick work.
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  #33  
Old 04-14-2012, 08:20 PM
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Default Re: Clown Pockets

Thanks for the feedback guys!
Some good tips there Scorpio, never thought or even heard of using distortion on the bass. I know alot of djent bands use distortion on bass but I thought it was just to be heavy and to be honest it's near impossible to pick the bass out in alot of djent music it's mixed so low.
No idea why.
But using a little distortion for definition sounds genius, I'll give it a go. We already EQ'd and compressed it but we used compression sparingly and could maybe wap it up a bit.

As for the mixes in metal Toolate, it depends on the sub-genre and flavour of the month. The scooped sound used to be big in metal, possibley still is but djent music has alot more high mids, especially on the guitar and as much as I enjoy a nice warm, full, classic rock sound it just doesn't work so well with this style, especially the really crazy parts (which there isn't really any on this track).
It can be a pain at times as we all as a band like so many styles and sounds and each one of us has had to give up something sound-wise for the mix and sound of this style but, I'm sure every musician has to do that in every style.
Or maybe we're just not good enough at production yet! Lol

So much to learn! Too many trends to keep up with!
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