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  #1  
Old 12-20-2011, 01:51 AM
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Default Diecast vs. Triple Flange

I know, I know. This topic has been covered many times, so save it lol. I need a new 14" ten lug hoop for my Sonor Phonic snare, but save for trying each out, im just researching possiblities. Ive read that die cast is for more focused sound with less overtones, while triple flanged is the opposite. I'm wondering what would happen mixing the two....die cast for snare side, triple flange for batter. Anyone have a snare(or two) set up like this? How does it sound?
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Old 12-20-2011, 02:09 AM
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Default Re: Diecast vs. Triple Flange

IMO you don't need die cast underneath. A die cast on the reso side...I'd say it limits the drum just slightly compared to a standard hoop. I think the die cast makes for a ballsier more focused tone on the batter, but that's JMO. I do prefer that tone on my snares.

I have a BB that came stock w/ actual brass die cast hoops. I purchased a 2.3 mm brass plated steel hoop for the reso side, because I thought that the DC seemed to limit the liveliness of the drum a little.
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Old 12-20-2011, 02:29 AM
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Default Re: Diecast vs. Triple Flange

I'm inclined to agree with Larry. I have a 14x10 snare that I had a triple flanged on the reso and an S-hoop on the batter. Recently I bought some die cast hoops from a fellow DW member. This drum is understandingly ringy because of the size. The die-cast hoops dry it out just enough so I don't have to fool with moongels and can still use a coated single-ply head.

Forgot to make my point... certain drums will benefit from a die-cast hoop on the reso, others won't.
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Old 12-20-2011, 06:59 AM
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Default Re: Diecast vs. Triple Flange

the tama steward copeland sig. snare comes with a diecast on the batter and a triple flanged on the snare side.... works well for him!
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:07 AM
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Default Re: Diecast vs. Triple Flange

i have die cast on both sides of my Supra and i love it
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  #6  
Old 12-20-2011, 01:47 PM
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Default Re: Diecast vs. Triple Flange

Oh yea, I know I dont NEED a die cast underneath. I do, however need a new hoop, period lol. I know I have seen snares with the mixed hoops before, as mentioned, the Copeland Sig, and a few other custom snares, I just didnt know if there would be a great difference in switchin it up. Die cast on reso, triple on the batter. Thanks for the words of advice Now off to the shop to hopefully get that Phonic snare back together!
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Old 12-20-2011, 04:04 PM
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Default Re: Diecast vs. Triple Flange

Quote:
Originally Posted by uniin View Post
the tama steward copeland sig. snare comes with a diecast on the batter and a triple flanged on the snare side.... works well for him!
Yeah, seems to be a pretty focused crack. I would tend to add some dampening or a dry head to tone down the brass shell, but it has just the right amount of ring in it. That's with the stock single ply Coated Remo Ambassador. Beautiful tone...after some slight tightening coming out of the box. It seemed the factory left the lugs looser near the snare beds.
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Old 12-20-2011, 06:07 PM
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Default Re: Diecast vs. Triple Flange

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Originally Posted by blastbeatkeeper View Post
. Die cast on reso, triple on the batter. Thanks for the words of advice
^ This is backwards. Die cast on the batter, triple on the reso. That's what we have been recommending, unless you are one of those guys that does the opposite of what is recommended. :)
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Old 12-20-2011, 06:27 PM
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Default Re: Diecast vs. Triple Flange

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unless you are one of those guys that does the opposite of what is recommended. :)
That'll be over half the forum then ;)
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  #10  
Old 12-20-2011, 06:34 PM
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Default Re: Diecast vs. Triple Flange

Oh yea, I understand that you guys are suggesting die cast=batter and triple flange=reso....BUT...how do you think it would sound with the die cast on the reso and triple flange on the batter? Thats why I keep saying the opposite of what you guys are saying lol. Is this just something "out of the box"? Or am I out of my mind? lol I mean, if it sounds all that horrible, theres no reason that I couldnt switch it back to "normal". Thats all. I didnt mean to stir up mass confusion....just didnt think what I was asking was that confusing to begin with ;-)
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  #11  
Old 12-20-2011, 06:43 PM
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Default Re: Diecast vs. Triple Flange

Sorry my bad. I don't think your suggestion will yield a superior tone, (my version of a superior tone anyway) if anything I think it would limit the drum slightly. But it may work for you on that drum. Only one way to know for sure, try it and let us know what you think!
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Old 12-21-2011, 07:05 AM
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Default Re: Diecast vs. Triple Flange

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Originally Posted by BigDinSD View Post
It seemed the factory left the lugs looser near the snare beds.
i don't know if it's just me, but if i want to change the way my snare wires react, i don't tighten or loosen them, i loosen the 4 tension rods at the snare beds... much more effective in creating different tones....

in general i always have those 4 tension rods about half, to a full turn looser then the other ones on my reso heads....
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Old 12-21-2011, 07:31 AM
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Default Re: Diecast vs. Triple Flange

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Only one way to know for sure, try it and let us know what you think!
Yep.

Buy one die cast hoop and try it on the reso AND batter. Then report back what you find.

Never be afraid to experiment with your drums mate. That's how YOU figure out what they're capable of. If you don't like it......you change it back.

How easy is that!! :-)

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
That'll be over half the forum then ;)
Some very christian numbers there Andy. Sadly, I fear you're being very kind. :-)
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  #14  
Old 12-21-2011, 07:39 AM
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Default Re: Diecast vs. Triple Flange

i think you're forgetting about the hole that they have for snare wires/straps to go through, pfog.
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Old 12-21-2011, 07:44 AM
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Default Re: Diecast vs. Triple Flange

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i think you're forgetting about the hole that they have for snare wires/straps to go through, pfog.
I think you might be quite right. Didn't think of that.....what a tosser!! :-)

Ok OP, you're gonna have to buy a set. I'd did and still find it a bit of fun to throw 'em around on different snares and see what sounds I can come up with.
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Old 12-21-2011, 08:23 AM
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Default Re: Diecast vs. Triple Flange

I own the Copeland snare and play it pretty much everyday. At one point I did put a die cast on the bottom just to see how it would work out - and although negligible, it did mute the drum a bit more than with having the triple-flange on the bottom. I think it's a good compromise. The top die cast gives you the rigidity you need, but by having the triple flange on the bottom, the shell gets to ring about a bit more. That Copeland had a good idea there, I think. It doesn't look goofy, either.
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  #17  
Old 12-21-2011, 03:25 PM
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Default Re: Diecast vs. Triple Flange

I have three kits with die cast hoops and three with triple flange. To me it really doesn't matter since I buy the drums for the way they sound, not how I hope that they will sound with modifications, so the original hoops stay there. The Ludwig Classic Maple drums I just purchased have 2.3mm triple flange, which on that kit sounds very nice. What I do like about die cast is their rigidity, especially on the snares batter and snare heads where they get torqued down quite a bit. It gives me a more stable, flex free tuning of both heads. The Yamaha aluminum die cast hoops are a great invention with their strength and light weight design.

In a nut shell, if a drum sounds great to my ears, being either die cast or 2.3mm triple flange hoops won't be the deal breaker.


Dennis
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Old 12-21-2011, 03:40 PM
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Default Re: Diecast vs. Triple Flange

Quote:
Originally Posted by uniin View Post
i don't know if it's just me, but if i want to change the way my snare wires react, i don't tighten or loosen them, i loosen the 4 tension rods at the snare beds... much more effective in creating different tones....

in general i always have those 4 tension rods about half, to a full turn looser then the other ones on my reso heads....
I had tightened those 4 tension rods just to get all the lugs in tune. I hadn't thought of the responsiveness of the snare.

If you loosen those 4 rods, how does that make the drum sound?

I was surprised TAMA loosened those at the factory. I just thought they would quickly screw all the lugs in, maybe with a power driver or something then toss it over to the shipping bay.
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  #19  
Old 12-21-2011, 04:44 PM
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Default Re: Diecast vs. Triple Flange

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Originally Posted by audiotech View Post
In a nut shell, if a drum sounds great to my ears, being either die cast or 2.3mm triple flange hoops won't be the deal breaker.


Dennis
I wholeheartedly agree. Im only doing this type of research because I need to replace my snare side hoop. It is tweaked beyond repair. Im just wondering if I should get die cast hoops or triple flange. If I go with triple, I only need to get the snare side. If I get die cast, I will need to get both batter and snare side. A) Being a SUBSTANTIAL price difference between die cast and triple flange to begin with and B) only needing to buy one hoop vs. two, I figured I would ask some professionals on here to see if they had any experience on what I want to experiment with, and im not just doing this cause Im bored lol.
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Old 12-22-2011, 12:26 AM
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Default Re: Diecast vs. Triple Flange

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Originally Posted by blastbeatkeeper View Post
I wholeheartedly agree. Im only doing this type of research because I need to replace my snare side hoop. It is tweaked beyond repair. Im just wondering if I should get die cast hoops or triple flange. If I go with triple, I only need to get the snare side. If I get die cast, I will need to get both batter and snare side. A) Being a SUBSTANTIAL price difference between die cast and triple flange to begin with and B) only needing to buy one hoop vs. two, I figured I would ask some professionals on here to see if they had any experience on what I want to experiment with, and im not just doing this cause Im bored lol.
If you decide to replace just your snare side hoop just make sure that the triple flange has a thickness of 2.3mm and not the 1.6mm because of the high tension that is exerted on the snare drums hoops.

Dennis.
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  #21  
Old 12-22-2011, 07:58 PM
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Default Re: Diecast vs. Triple Flange

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Originally Posted by audiotech View Post
If you decide to replace just your snare side hoop just make sure that the triple flange has a thickness of 2.3mm and not the 1.6mm because of the high tension that is exerted on the snare drums hoops.

Dennis.
Now that brings up another question....I believe my original hoops are only 1.6mm. If I get the 2.3 to replace the original, will that extra thickness make a difference? Will the thicker material dampen the sound or make it more open? Or will it be so meniscule that it wont make any difference whatsoever?

Sorry for the questions...this is my first real foray into the whole hoops/tone situation and I love to learn new things. I want to make sure all my bases are covered.
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Old 12-22-2011, 08:09 PM
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Default Re: Diecast vs. Triple Flange

The 2.3's will alter the sound. Whether or not you like the change is your tastes. IMO the 1.6 hoops make snares sound wimpy and scattered. Toms are a different story. I think the thicker hoops tend to make a snare louder and speak more clearly. Die cast on the bottom is a waste of time and money. 2.3's are the way to go for the snare reso, regardless of the top hoop IMO.
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  #23  
Old 12-22-2011, 08:34 PM
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Default Re: Diecast vs. Triple Flange

Awesome. Thanks everyone for dealing with a newb. I appreciate all the advice from everyone, and I hope everyone has a good holiday season.
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  #24  
Old 02-23-2012, 07:45 PM
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Default Re: Diecast vs. Triple Flange

I've tried just about every combination, triple/triple, die cast/triple, S hoop/triple and it really depends on the drum. Maple. Birch and Ash seem to like the S hoop/triple combination while my metal snares do well with the die cast/triple setup. I haven't tried this on my piccolos yet. If you're going triple-flanged go with the heavier 2.3 though. They really do make a big difference.
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