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  #1  
Old 12-08-2008, 08:20 PM
drew510 drew510 is offline
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Default Putting Die-cast hoops on snare?

I've been thinking about replacing the current rims on my snare (2.3 triple flanged steel) with die cast ones. It's a Yamaha Musashi 13x6.5. The drum is 7-ply oak. Any suggestions on how this would sound or has anyone done this on a similar drum? I've played a lot of snares with die cast hoops and seem to like the sound... but yeah any suggestions would be appreciated, also where would be a good place to buy high quality die cast hoops (need 13in 8 hole, snare side and batter). Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 12-08-2008, 09:34 PM
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Default Re: Putting Die-cast hoops on snare?

The advantage of die cast hoops is that they're die cast, hehe. But seriously, flanged hoops come from long pieces of steel that are bent and then fused and then shaped and drilled so, no matter what anyone calls them they have a natural, physical tendency to want to revert back to their original straight shape. Since die cast hoops are poured into a cast in a molten state and then cooled and finished, they are already in their original shape and retain their roundness pretty much indefinitely. This keeps the shape of the drums in round and makes the drums sound better over the long run. Where to buy? ebay. buy used.
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  #3  
Old 12-08-2008, 10:08 PM
drew510 drew510 is offline
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Default Re: Putting Die-cast hoops on snare?

True. Well honestly i think my snare side rim is bent out of shape and I want to replace them so i might as well try die cast... also its hard to find 13 inch 8 hole snare hoops on ebay used, all there is on there is new...
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  #4  
Old 12-08-2008, 10:25 PM
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Default Re: Putting Die-cast hoops on snare?

i dont think you should buy used... theyre not that expensive. you might as well just get brand new ones and not risk the quality. try
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  #5  
Old 12-09-2008, 03:33 PM
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Default Re: Putting Die-cast hoops on snare?

What do you guys think about putting die-cast on my black beauty? I know it would ease my tuning efforts, but would it choke the drum down?
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  #6  
Old 12-10-2008, 04:19 AM
Zinnman Zinnman is offline
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Default Re: Putting Die-cast hoops on snare?

Die casts on a snare vs. the triple flanged will take some of the ring out and dry the sound out a bit.
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  #7  
Old 12-16-2008, 08:31 PM
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Default Re: Putting Die-cast hoops on snare?

If you've got a Guitar Center nearby, it will probably have in stock the new Ludwig Black Magic snare with the black chromed die cast hoops.

It's a Black Beauty shell with die cast hoops and should give you a pretty good idea what your snare might sound like.
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  #8  
Old 12-19-2008, 08:12 AM
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Default Re: Putting Die-cast hoops on snare?

They also change how the drum feels when you whack it. More rigid, less give. I prefer the feel of the flanged hoops big time.
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  #9  
Old 12-19-2008, 08:23 AM
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Default Re: Putting Die-cast hoops on snare?

I will never go back to die cast. S-hoops have a perfect balance of openness (like 2.3mm triple flanged) and focused rim click (like die cast). They don't choke the drum like die cast, nor are they totally wide open.

The other things I like better in some ways (especially cosmetic) is a wood hoop. Wooden rim clicks sound amazing, and these hoops let the drum resonate.
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  #10  
Old 12-19-2008, 09:26 AM
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Default Re: Putting Die-cast hoops on snare?

Yeah, I have two Black Beauties, and the die-cast gives a definite change in sound from the triple flanged. I have the diecast on my 5 x 14 BB, and the triple flanged on the 6.5 x 14, two different sounds, but both are great.
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  #11  
Old 12-22-2008, 04:30 PM
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Default Re: Putting Die-cast hoops on snare?

Another vote for the S-hoop. It's awesome. Cleans up the sound without volume loss. Powerful cross stick sound and protects bearing edge. I love it.
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  #12  
Old 05-02-2010, 10:46 AM
beatmonkey beatmonkey is offline
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Default Re: Putting Die-cast hoops on snare?

ive got a pearl sensitone, whilst recording with this snare , i have come to notice there is a hell of a lot of ring to it, would die cast cut that down , i know a wood snare is allways going to be the answer but b4 i add another snare to my collection i want to see what options i have before shelling out ha ha what a pun:)
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  #13  
Old 05-13-2010, 06:32 PM
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Default Re: Putting Die-cast hoops on snare?

I prefer thin cheap triple flanged over die cast simply because of the softer feel to the stick, it makes playing consistent rimshots easier especially at low volumes.

So, how do the S hoops feel when you hit shots? These may be the answer but I've never gotten to try them.
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  #14  
Old 05-13-2010, 07:18 PM
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Default Re: Putting Die-cast hoops on snare?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillBachman View Post
So, how do the S hoops feel when you hit shots? These may be the answer but I've never gotten to try them.
my wrists are thanking me after getting s-hoops to replace the die-cast rims. i play a lot of rim shots and they seem to "give" more than the die-cast, making my wrists feel less tired after a show. but the sound is still there.
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  #15  
Old 05-13-2010, 07:48 PM
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Default Re: Putting Die-cast hoops on snare?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillBachman View Post
I prefer thin cheap triple flanged over die cast simply because of the softer feel to the stick, it makes playing consistent rimshots easier especially at low volumes.

So, how do the S hoops feel when you hit shots? These may be the answer but I've never gotten to try them.
Hi Bill,

As chathamight mentioned, my experience is that it's a softer feel with a bit of "give." Still, the quality of sound (timbre/tone/etc.) is very rich. The only downside for me is that they do cut into a bit of the "real estate" for brush playing and you can't quite reach the area right next to the bearing edge (where I occasionally go while comping). Personally, I favor these and aluminum die-cast hoops.

best,

spleen
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  #16  
Old 05-13-2010, 11:55 PM
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Default Re: Putting Die-cast hoops on snare?

Thanks for the input guys, I'll check them out!
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  #17  
Old 05-17-2010, 05:44 AM
Tully Lee Tully Lee is offline
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Default Re: Putting Die-cast hoops on snare?

Best $ I spent in years on my drums that really made a difference? S-Hoops!
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  #18  
Old 05-04-2011, 03:07 PM
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Default Re: Putting Die-cast hoops on snare?

Are hoops generally one size fits all? I want a die cast hoop for my Ludwig Black Beauty batter side but don't want to make a mistake and buy one that won't fit! Does anyone know where I can get one? Preferably UK based?
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  #19  
Old 05-04-2011, 04:37 PM
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Default Re: Putting Die-cast hoops on snare?

As long as you get a 14" hoop with however many lugs your drum has, you'll be set.
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  #20  
Old 05-04-2011, 05:01 PM
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Default Re: Putting Die-cast hoops on snare?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ?uesto View Post
As long as you get a 14" hoop with however many lugs your drum has, you'll be set.
Thank you thank you thank you, I've been asking this for about 2 days all over the web, you're the first to answer.
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  #21  
Old 05-04-2011, 05:52 PM
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Default Re: Putting Die-cast hoops on snare?

I love a snare with nice and heavy die-cast hoops. Gives such a nice crack, ear-piercing rimshots and feels solid as a rock.

I put one on top of my MPX steel snare and it changed the drum like night and day. ;)
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  #22  
Old 05-22-2011, 08:24 PM
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Default Re: Putting Die-cast hoops on snare?

The S-Hoops seem very similar to the older Slingerland, I believe they were called "Stick-Saver" hoops.

I see the S-Hoops have a section that is sort of vertical and parallel to the head, where the "Stick-Savers" kind of rolled under itself more towards the top of the rim portion.

Does anyone else remember these Slingerland rims? If so, how close are they to the S-Hoops?
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  #23  
Old 05-22-2011, 09:34 PM
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Default Re: Putting Die-cast hoops on snare?

Quote:
Originally Posted by evolving_machine View Post
The S-Hoops seem very similar to the older Slingerland, I believe they were called "Stick-Saver" hoops.

I see the S-Hoops have a section that is sort of vertical and parallel to the head, where the "Stick-Savers" kind of rolled under itself more towards the top of the rim portion.

Does anyone else remember these Slingerland rims? If so, how close are they to the S-Hoops?
I'm very familiar with "Stick Saver" hoops. I used them back in the late sixties and I'm currently looking at a vintage 60s set of Slingerland drums. I'm not very up to date on the "S" hoops though.

I have die cast hoops on several of my snares and have no issues with their sound compared to snares with triple flange hoops. The hoops on my Yamaha Maple Custom Absolute snare are die cast, but they're made from aluminum, making them probably the best of both worlds. The only odd ball hoops are on my DW classic snare. I believe they are 3 mm triple flanged and they are folded over the tops of themselves to add extra strength as in every other drum in the kit. You can see their thickness at the tension rods.





Dennis
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  #24  
Old 05-23-2011, 03:30 AM
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Default Re: Putting Die-cast hoops on snare?

Love diecast hoops on wooden drums - for me they tighten up the sound and get rid of some of the unwanted ringy frequencies in pressed/rolled hoops. My 2nd choice would be wood hoops on a wooden drum.

I like triple flanged hoops on a brass snare but would like to try some cast brass hoops.....
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  #25  
Old 05-29-2011, 10:13 PM
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Default Re: Putting Die-cast hoops on snare?

On my Pearl (MCX)/ Gretsch (Brass Hammered) set, I have Die cast on my snare and my toms.

I find the rim shots on all the drums are brighter. The tuning with the Die-Cast, I believe to be easier because the rims are stiffer.

It is because of a stiffer/ larger moment of inertia.

The "S" hoops and the older Slingerland "Stick-Savers" are also a stiffer rim, but not due to more material but because of the design geometry.

An "I" beam has a higher moment of inertia than an angle of the same weight and is stiffer in most directions.

The change in Die cast hoops and flange hoops is the same as to what happened in bicycles. Of course, Gretsch has been using die casts for a long time. In bicycles the tube diameter used to be 1.25" and made of steel. I hope I am not the only one that remembers bicycles made out of steel. Some bicycle companies starting using an enlarged 1.75" diameter and made of aluminum.

Aluminum is a lighter metal, but it is also not as strong. Aluminum is about 1/3 the ability to resist bending. But, to make up for that, they increased the geometry, made the section larger, the moment of inertia greater, and that made the aluminum frame able to resist bending better. It was still able to do all, that while keeping the weight lighter. Just by playing with the geometry.

The die cast rims are the same thing to the flange hoops and the "S" rims/ Slingerland Stick saver.

Trusses use this trick. Trusses that are used in a building roof and floor supports are very light and can hold an enormous amount of load for their weight.

Ok, I hope I did not put everyone to sleep there. I know I can get long winded at times.
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  #26  
Old 01-22-2012, 09:35 PM
TommyDaMick TommyDaMick is offline
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Default Re: Putting Die-cast hoops on snare?

I have a Ludwig 7x14 20 ply Birch and put S-Hoops, Coated CS Batter top, hazy ambassador bottom and Puresound Snares... made a world of Difference. I'm also getting a Tube-lug Black Beauty and the 1st thing I'll do is use the same combination... also cut my snare down to 8 strand... gets rid of any snare buzz but same response. (Gavin Harrison Trick)

S-Hoops ROCK!!
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  #27  
Old 01-22-2012, 11:44 PM
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Default Re: Putting Die-cast hoops on snare?

I had a set only 12x6 maple and it seemed to dry out the snare and the the sound was muddy/muffled as compared to the sharp crisp sound I got with the triple flanged ones.
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  #28  
Old 01-23-2012, 01:23 AM
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Default Re: Putting Die-cast hoops on snare?

http://www.drumfactorydirect.com/ind...oducts_id=3563

http://www.drumfactorydirect.com/ind...oducts_id=4822

I put Die cast on my Mapex MPX 8 x 14 maple and it made a big difference, just more focused, I like it a whole lot more than the triple flanged hoops that were on it, I never have tried s hoops but hear mixed reviews. I will have to see for myself one day.
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  #29  
Old 01-23-2012, 02:16 AM
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Default Re: Putting Die-cast hoops on snare?

Running die cast on my 5x14 Supraphonic mainly because the original hoops were rusted out (circa 1970 and I got it used). I really like die cast hoops, I'm acclimated to them now. I'm shopping for some die cast for my 6.5x14 Supra so I have the same general feel when I switch between the two drums.

I like Gibraltar's die cast hoops. Moderately inexpensive and high quality. I think several of the major manufacturers use Gibraltar's die cast hoops on their production snares. 14"/10-lug are $55-65 each.
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