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  #1  
Old 12-22-2011, 05:53 AM
Drumwiz Drumwiz is offline
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Default Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

I have a Ludwig Keystone kit (13, 16 &18 floors, Bonham setup) with vintage coated emperors on the toms. I haven't heard them close mic'd yet but I don't think they sound great to my ear, they sound maybe a little too vintage-ey if that makes sense, kind of ringey but they are tuned correctly. I think I want them just a tad more modern, I play hard rock and classic rock, I'm not an extremely heavy hitter. I'm thinking of putting regular coated emperors on them, will there be much difference sound wise?

I know they come with clear stock heads, but I don't think I want to go clear. Open to any suggestions but definitely want to stick to Remo's.

Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 12-22-2011, 06:01 AM
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Pocket-full-of-gold Pocket-full-of-gold is offline
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Default Re: Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

Realistically, the difference is 0.5 mil per layer.....1 mil all up. Whilst the standard Emp may be ever so slightly more open sounding, I think the difference is really negligable.....it'd take a pretty well trained ear to pick the difference.

I'm happy for someone to prove me wrong, but I've always seen the difference between to the two as little more than a marketing strategy to appeal to anyone playing Emps prior to the mid to late 70's.
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  #3  
Old 12-22-2011, 02:54 PM
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Default Re: Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

To my ear the Vintage sound slightly deeper and less resonate but the difference is negligible. In a live setting I don't think you could hear the difference.
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Old 12-22-2011, 03:22 PM
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Default Re: Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

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Originally Posted by Drumwiz View Post
I have a Ludwig Keystone kit (13, 16 &18 floors, Bonham setup) with vintage coated emperors on the toms. I haven't heard them close mic'd yet but I don't think they sound great to my ear, they sound maybe a little too vintage-ey if that makes sense, kind of ringey but they are tuned correctly. I think I want them just a tad more modern, I play hard rock and classic rock, I'm not an extremely heavy hitter. I'm thinking of putting regular coated emperors on them, will there be much difference sound wise?

I know they come with clear stock heads, but I don't think I want to go clear. Open to any suggestions but definitely want to stick to Remo's.

Thanks.
Try close-micing them and see what you think. Mic'ed or unmic'ed, heads always sound deeper from the audience perspective, so try tuning them up a tiny bit higher than you think you want them to sound. Gavin Harrison uses Vintage Emperors and I think you could say he has a more modern sound, so it's the tuning and the shells/hoops that make the difference.

If you aren't a heavy hitter and you want a more focused sound than a wide open double-ply head, then you might try a clear CS head (with the dot). Lighter strokes emphasize the tone of the drum with less attack, so a clear head will bring the attack back in, and the dot will cut out the overtones, giving a more focused sound.
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  #5  
Old 12-22-2011, 03:32 PM
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Default Re: Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

I've used both heads quite a lot. The modern Emperors are slightly brighter, but not a lot. (besides the ply thickness, the modern Emps use a clear film and Vintage Emps use a white film, which may or may not contribute to the difference I hear.) It's only really noticeable when you are playing the drums alone. Honestly, if you are finding the Vintage heads too ringy, I think moving to the regular Emperor is a step in the wrong direction. If you want less ring, go with a Pinstripe or PowerStroke head, IMO.
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  #6  
Old 12-22-2011, 03:43 PM
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Default Re: Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

If you went with modern emp's you would be defeating your purpose because they're thinner than vintage emp's.

I had modern coated emp's on my Ludwig Epics & when I switched to vintage emp's I could tell the difference right off but the shells are thin so maybe that's why.

If you want something even less resonant maybe go to a coated pinstripe or emperor fiberskin that's what I was gonna do if i didn't. like the vintage emp's but I love em..lol

good luck,
Bonzolead
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Old 12-22-2011, 04:16 PM
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Default Re: Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

I've tried several different heads on my fiberglass Blaemire kit, and the Vintage Emps are by far my favorite. I'm really digging the tone and the feel of these heads. I've also noticed the coating seems to be wearing better than the regular Emps.
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  #8  
Old 12-22-2011, 07:03 PM
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Default Re: Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

Hmm, I'm hoping it's just a slight close-mic or tuning thing. I really like the sound of Gavin Harrison's kit, especially on that Letterman drum solo week a few months ago!

Mine just sounds almost like a jazz kit to me for some reason.
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  #9  
Old 12-22-2011, 07:21 PM
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Default Re: Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

For a more modern sound, you need black dots on everything. And take your bottom heads off. That'll do it ;)
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  #10  
Old 12-22-2011, 07:26 PM
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Default Re: Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

This may sound totally counter-intuitive but have you considered Ambassadors?

I say this because I've been using Ambassadors on my kit for years and they have a great combination of attack and depth. It's possible to tune an Ambassador head slightly lower and with similar attack to an Emperor if you know what you're doing. They sound great under close mics.

It does take some skill to tune them but I think it might be worth considering, even if it might sound odd to most.
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Old 12-22-2011, 07:39 PM
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Default Re: Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

It sounds like your tuning our heads too tight. Thats the only way I can see those head being ringy enough to complain about. Vintage Emps and Emps are naturally deep, fat heads. Either you got a bad batch or they are too tight.
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Old 12-22-2011, 07:43 PM
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Default Re: Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

It's possible they're too tight, I had a local drum guru/shop owner/tech tune them for me. But hey, who knows. Maybe I'll try and tinker with them.

I don't want to go for the single-ply, including the black dots. I think it will either be the vintage emps (tuned correctly if possible), or clear emps. Any advice from the clear emps people out there?
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  #13  
Old 12-23-2011, 07:50 PM
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Default Re: Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

Hmm I'm also curious about these Remo Emperor X's...
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  #14  
Old 12-24-2011, 01:39 AM
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Default Re: Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

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Originally Posted by Drumwiz View Post
Hmm I'm also curious about these Remo Emperor X's...
As heavy as it gets. I've only ever had one drum that I was prepared to put an Emp X on. It was on old style maple free floater that I just always struggled to tame. Couldn't get rid of the squeeling overtones no matter how I tuned it. The only head that got me a sound I thought workable was an Emp X.

To me they're just too heavy for general purpose. I reckon they'd crush the life out of most drums. But as I always say, never be afraid to experiment with your drums. The only way you're gonna know is if you try it out yourself.
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  #15  
Old 12-25-2011, 06:27 AM
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Default Re: Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

I made a quick youtube video of my toms just from a flipcam, link below. I put a regular emperor on the 16", the 13" and 18" still have vintage emps. The resonants are stock ludwig/evans (probably single ply).

I'm still undecided on the regular emps or vintage. I did notice the vintages are thicker and give less rebound, the regulars are a little more "slappy", but very minimal difference.

http://youtu.be/PDb9NT-ch2U
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  #16  
Old 12-28-2011, 07:20 PM
samdrum samdrum is offline
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Default Re: Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

Have you considered putting a coated Ambassador on the Reso? That will definitely bring down the brightness. If you have standard Ludwig clear heads on bottom, if they say "Heavy" that is similar to a clear Ambassador, if it is a medium that is like a Diplomat which is really thin for a 16 & 18" floor tom.
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  #17  
Old 12-28-2011, 08:42 PM
Drumwiz Drumwiz is offline
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Default Re: Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

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Originally Posted by samdrum View Post
Have you considered putting a coated Ambassador on the Reso? That will definitely bring down the brightness. If you have standard Ludwig clear heads on bottom, if they say "Heavy" that is similar to a clear Ambassador, if it is a medium that is like a Diplomat which is really thin for a 16 & 18" floor tom.
They don't say Heavy or Medium, they just say "Ludwig original heads by Evans". Either way, I'm going to replace them with real remo ambos soon. Just can't decide whether to record with vintage emps or standard emps. My gut feeling says record with the standard emps as they're a bit lighter, I don't want them to be too dead sounding, I want just a little more modern punch. So that points to standard emps for me, and maybe vintage emps when playing live...
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Old 01-03-2012, 12:45 AM
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Default Re: Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

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Originally Posted by Drumwiz View Post
... I want just a little more modern punch. So that points to standard emps for me, and maybe vintage emps when playing live...
I was thinking "clear emplorer" while reading this thread. I'm pretty sure they'll ring out more, but I bet they'll have more of the "modern punch" you're missing.

I recently went from coated ambassadors on my toms to clear emporers and the change was exactly how you described... Kinda made a jazzier sounding kit into a rock sounding kit.

PS - I spent alot of time tuning my drums better too, so that plays a big part. I realized I was tuning my drums much higher than needed. Started doing the "just past wrinkle" method and found the sweet resonant spot in no-time....
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