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  #1  
Old 09-09-2011, 06:45 AM
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Default Has anyone regretted going from a single pedal to a double pedal?

Ok - so I just found out that I can't quite get bass drum rolls at 127 BPM. I'm trying to do:
ss, bd, tom tom, bd, tom tom, bd, floor tom, bd, floor tom, bd, tom tom, bd, ss (2 beats each, with a double bass beat inbetween.)

It seemed inevitable, but now I'm considering a double bass drum pedal (I had not even considered this because of the price). I also wanted to really master a single pedal. I am struggling on the slide technique, which appears to be a pretty efficient techniqe for quick bd beats.

So please tell if you've had any regrets from making that switch from single to double.

I don't really play much metal that might require a double pedal, but I do see myself incorporating it into rolls and licks. I play mostly alternative rock, christian rock, and some Breakin Benjamin.
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Old 09-09-2011, 06:59 AM
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Default Re: Has anyone regretted going from a single pedal to a double pedal?

What would there be to "regret"?

If you decide you don't like it, or don't need it anymore, you just stop using the left side.
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Old 09-09-2011, 07:04 AM
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Default Re: Has anyone regretted going from a single pedal to a double pedal?

And FYI:

It's not a requirement that you be a metal player to find a double pedal useful.

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=69243
Double bass was being used in jazz for some 25 before anyone had even thought of the term "heavy metal". It can be found in a variety of pop tunes. Heck even Steve Gadd owns a double pedal.
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Old 09-09-2011, 07:08 AM
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Default Re: Has anyone regretted going from a single pedal to a double pedal?

I dont regret at all, it's just I dont use it as much as I thought I would...

Fortunately I'm better at using my hi-hat with foot.

For the OP - what you're refering to is called Quad and I do it easily better using my double pedal.
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Old 09-09-2011, 01:23 PM
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Default Re: Has anyone regretted going from a single pedal to a double pedal?

the only reason I have a double pedal is because I can't pull off 16th notes with a single pedal. I only play 16th notes on one or two songs out of fifty during a gig. I've always been able to do quads with a single pedal but they do sound fuller and more even with the double pedal. Like Mind Drummer, I don't use it as much as I thought I would. I don't regret adding the double pedal to my set up. I could easily do without it but I have no plans to get rid of it. I have a long way to go if I want to master it.
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Old 09-09-2011, 01:52 PM
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Default Re: Has anyone regretted going from a single pedal to a double pedal?

Whats to regret. Just another tool to learn and have fun with. I think you might be referring to the point that it might make you lazy with your single pedal technique, if you have the double to use.
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Old 09-09-2011, 03:32 PM
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Default Re: Has anyone regretted going from a single pedal to a double pedal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum View Post
And FYI:

It's not a requirement that you be a metal player to find a double pedal useful.

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=69243
Double bass was being used in jazz for some 25 before anyone had even thought of the term "heavy metal". It can be found in a variety of pop tunes. Heck even Steve Gadd owns a double pedal.
You're right DrumEatDrum!

My incorrect statement reflects my limited experience in the other musical genres.
In fact, I have seen other drummers just blast rolls from their double pedals that did not play metal. Pretty fricken talented they were.
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Old 09-09-2011, 03:39 PM
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Default Re: Has anyone regretted going from a single pedal to a double pedal?

I agree with the others here; there's really nothing to regret. Even though you have a double pedal doesn't mean you have to use it.

I've always had a double pedal, but I only really use it for accents and fills. Having one hasn't turned me into a hardcore metal player who has to play blistering double bass runs all the time :-)
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Old 09-09-2011, 03:53 PM
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Default Re: Has anyone regretted going from a single pedal to a double pedal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzrock View Post
the only reason I have a double pedal is because I can't pull off 16th notes with a single pedal. I only play 16th notes on one or two songs out of fifty during a gig. I've always been able to do quads with a single pedal but they do sound fuller and more even with the double pedal. Like Mind Drummer, I don't use it as much as I thought I would. I don't regret adding the double pedal to my set up. I could easily do without it but I have no plans to get rid of it. I have a long way to go if I want to master it.
Definitely would smoothen out my 16th notes, with authority...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sticks4drums View Post
Whats to regret. Just another tool to learn and have fun with. I think you might be referring to the point that it might make you lazy with your single pedal technique, if you have the double to use.
Yeah - I know, we can't have enough tools, can we? :-)
You're right about getting lazy with the right foot...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mind_drummer View Post
I dont regret at all, it's just I dont use it as much as I thought I would...

Fortunately I'm better at using my hi-hat with foot.

For the OP - what you're refering to is called Quad and I do it easily better using my double pedal.
...That too would be my main concern, not using it enough to justify the cost.

"QUAD"...right! I knew there was an easier to describe that lick/roll...
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Old 09-09-2011, 04:00 PM
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Default Re: Has anyone regretted going from a single pedal to a double pedal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naigewron View Post
I agree with the others here; there's really nothing to regret. Even though you have a double pedal doesn't mean you have to use it.

I've always had a double pedal, but I only really use it for accents and fills. Having one hasn't turned me into a hardcore metal player who has to play blistering double bass runs all the time :-)
Thanks for the addiction - therapy drummies!

I know it's relative in each of our own's opinions...
...it's Friday, and I will spend much of the weekend justifying the spice, rolls, quads and accents the double bass pedal will fill my life with!

Oh...if you see a future post asking about particular double pedals...you know where I'm going!
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Old 09-09-2011, 04:18 PM
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Default Re: Has anyone regretted going from a single pedal to a double pedal?

What about heel-toe, tried that? That one was much easier for me to learn than slide (that is, I can't play slide and have stopped learning slide technique). Of course heel-toe works both on single and double pedals. If you really need quad bass drum patterns you'll need a double pedal, but playing 2 (very) fast bass drum notes on a single pedal is no prob with heel-toe. Even if you'll get a double pedal I would recommend learning several foot techniques. (Heel-toe) doubles have a 'texture' to them (the 2nd/tap kick with the toe tends to be softer than the 1st one/with the heel) which some players don't like. Yes, heel up sounds more even, but I find heel-toe has benefits, too - it's simply way more economic and you can hit insane speed.

Having a double pedal, you could also experiment incorporating the hihat with your left bass drum pedal, pressing both pedals simultaneously. Or try multiple pedal setups (like Thomas Lang, Derek Roddy, George Kollias). I'm considering adding at least some Hansenfutz to my double bass pedal to finally get into multi pedal setups.

To answer the original thread's question: No, I haven't. Because for me it was clear I wanted to start with a double pedal setup anyway. (That was 1 year ago.) Thus, both feet have the same chance to learn the motions, acquire the necessary power/coordination, and I wouldn't have to mess with a neglected left foot when adding a double pedal.

A double pedal means having an option and not be limited - I like having options. Having a double pedal doesn't mean your right foot will deteriorate. It's completely up to you! Quite the opposite - you can concentrate on each foot and achieve a new level. In the extreme metal genre, many blast beats are played as single foot - as long as the tempo/one's own playing skills allow(s) - just to give you an example that having a double pedal doesn't mean the footwork will necessarily be easier ;-)

From my experience, on a double pedal setup, finding the right balance and seating position on the throne is even more critical (and harder to do) than with a single pedal & hihat. This refers at least to playing situations when you're doing more than 1 'round' of each foot, e.g. heel up: RL or heel-toe: RRLL. When doing only RL or RRLL, the balance issue won't become evident. I guess you'll have to do quite some adjustments as soon as you'll have a double pedal.

Last edited by Arky; 09-09-2011 at 04:47 PM.
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  #12  
Old 09-09-2011, 05:00 PM
Redfern Redfern is offline
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Default Re: Has anyone regretted going from a single pedal to a double pedal?

Ive actually found buying a double pedal has really boosted my left foot ability, i also agree that eventually, you should also invest some time learning heel toe, i learnt the slide first then heel toe and have found both extremely useful in different situations i.e. for fast short bursts i use heel toe on both pedals but for quick triplets the slide comes much more in handy etc

Dont hesitate to get a double pedal, they're great additions to the kit! :)
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Old 09-09-2011, 07:57 PM
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Default Re: Has anyone regretted going from a single pedal to a double pedal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arky View Post
What about heel-toe, tried that? That one was much easier for me to learn than slide (that is, I can't play slide and have stopped learning slide technique). Of course heel-toe works both on single and double pedals. If you really need quad bass drum patterns you'll need a double pedal, but playing 2 (very) fast bass drum notes on a single pedal is no prob with heel-toe. Even if you'll get a double pedal I would recommend learning several foot techniques. (Heel-toe) doubles have a 'texture' to them (the 2nd/tap kick with the toe tends to be softer than the 1st one/with the heel) which some players don't like. Yes, heel up sounds more even, but I find heel-toe has benefits, too - it's simply way more economic and you can hit insane speed.

Having a double pedal, you could also experiment incorporating the hihat with your left bass drum pedal, pressing both pedals simultaneously. Or try multiple pedal setups (like Thomas Lang, Derek Roddy, George Kollias). I'm considering adding at least some Hansenfutz to my double bass pedal to finally get into multi pedal setups.

To answer the original thread's question: No, I haven't. Because for me it was clear I wanted to start with a double pedal setup anyway. (That was 1 year ago.) Thus, both feet have the same chance to learn the motions, acquire the necessary power/coordination, and I wouldn't have to mess with a neglected left foot when adding a double pedal.

A double pedal means having an option and not be limited - I like having options. Having a double pedal doesn't mean your right foot will deteriorate. It's completely up to you! Quite the opposite - you can concentrate on each foot and achieve a new level. In the extreme metal genre, many blast beats are played as single foot - as long as the tempo/one's own playing skills allow(s) - just to give you an example that having a double pedal doesn't mean the footwork will necessarily be easier ;-)

From my experience, on a double pedal setup, finding the right balance and seating position on the throne is even more critical (and harder to do) than with a single pedal & hihat. This refers at least to playing situations when you're doing more than 1 'round' of each foot, e.g. heel up: RL or heel-toe: RRLL. When doing only RL or RRLL, the balance issue won't become evident. I guess you'll have to do quite some adjustments as soon as you'll have a double pedal.
I am doing heel-toe now. It's quite efficient, but not quite at the 127 bpm quads. Seems like I don't quite want to give up mastering the slide quite yet...

Yeah - I do love options myself...but your point about the economics of learning quicker heel-toe weigh heavily upon me.
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Old 09-09-2011, 08:00 PM
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Default Re: Has anyone regretted going from a single pedal to a double pedal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redfern View Post
Ive actually found buying a double pedal has really boosted my left foot ability, i also agree that eventually, you should also invest some time learning heel toe, i learnt the slide first then heel toe and have found both extremely useful in different situations i.e. for fast short bursts i use heel toe on both pedals but for quick triplets the slide comes much more in handy etc

Dont hesitate to get a double pedal, they're great additions to the kit! :)
Yeah, I accidentally stumbled onto heel-toe. I just kept messing around and just stomping, tapping, etc. I can even get some good triplets out of it.
I agree - a great addition!
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Old 09-09-2011, 10:10 PM
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Default Re: Has anyone regretted going from a single pedal to a double pedal?

There are not many places in music where double pedal capabilities are needed. Given the very large amount of time and effort needed into playing them competently, and the relatively lack of use, the only thing I would regret is spending time on double pedals that could go into more useful aspects of playing.

I solved this problem and went with a Duallist. If your single pedal skills are good enough, the Duallist allows you to do most of the things you would otherwise need a double pedal for. And I gotta tell you, it is hell of fun to play 260 bmp with one foot. Nothing quite like it, even though there's not much application for it.
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Old 09-10-2011, 07:06 PM
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Default Re: Has anyone regretted going from a single pedal to a double pedal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathmetalconga View Post
There are not many places in music where double pedal capabilities are needed. Given the very large amount of time and effort needed into playing them competently, and the relatively lack of use, the only thing I would regret is spending time on double pedals that could go into more useful aspects of playing.

I solved this problem and went with a Duallist. If your single pedal skills are good enough, the Duallist allows you to do most of the things you would otherwise need a double pedal for. And I gotta tell you, it is hell of fun to play 260 bmp with one foot. Nothing quite like it, even though there's not much application for it.
Pretty hot pedal that is. Are they pretty well built, with good customer support? I've seen great demos on Youtube...
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Old 09-12-2011, 06:38 PM
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Default Re: Has anyone regretted going from a single pedal to a double pedal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDinSD View Post
Pretty hot pedal that is. Are they pretty well built, with good customer support? I've seen great demos on Youtube...
Mine has given me no problems after five years. I've never had to use the customer support. I got mine from the company as a demo so it was cheaper. It makes a very good single pedal as well.

All I can say it, you got to try it out to appreciate how it works and what it can do for you. It will unlock capabilities you didn't know you had built up in your bass drum foot.
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Old 09-14-2011, 05:10 AM
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Default Re: Has anyone regretted going from a single pedal to a double pedal?

I'll be the one person to say I regret getting double bass. So much so that I stopped using it, and since then have felt an increase in my creativity and right foot strength. When I bought my double bass pedal, it served its purpose. I played a lot of fast metal. Since then however I've matured in not only life but musically. The aggression of metal no longer suits me, and the necessity of a 32nd note backdrop of double bass under a song is gone. In fact the only reason I look back at my playing a double bass pedal and regret it altogether is because I know that my single bass speed is faster because of it. However I know there was a time where I relied on double bass too much, and from that end alone it sent me into the phase I'm in now, playing only with a single pedal, constantly changing my drum set up to challenge myself to be comfortable in any sitting, and finally to force creativity out onto these different configurations.

To that end I guess there really wouldn't be much to "regret" since out of me putting double bass to death, I've come out all the better and I really believe that. However I too had all these romantic ideas about how I really wouldn't use it to much or I'd find applications for it in other styles, and I personally haven't found use for it outside of rock and metal. I find that many notes from a drum that produces that much low end to be unfitting in many genres. Plus its not out of anyone's reach to hit fast speeds with one foot. Doing triplets ala "Good times Bad times" isn't difficult, and neither is straight 16ths.

Get the double pedal if you feel it necessary, but from my experience without me even realizing it, I let myself get lazy when I got the double bass. My drum fills suffered, my right foot suffered, and certainly my creative out put as a whole suffered. I don't know if I'll ever turn back to double bass for much more then practice purposes at this point. Hopefully my .02 gives you just a little bit of the other side to consider.
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Old 09-14-2011, 05:16 AM
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Default Re: Has anyone regretted going from a single pedal to a double pedal?

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Originally Posted by TheIronCobr4 View Post
I'll be the one person to say I regret getting double bass. So much so that I stopped using it, and since then have felt an increase in my creativity and right foot strength. When I bought my double bass pedal, it served its purpose. I played a lot of fast metal. Since then however I've matured in not only life but musically. The aggression of metal no longer suits me, and the necessity of a 32nd note backdrop of double bass under a song is gone. In fact the only reason I look back at my playing a double bass pedal and regret it altogether is because I know that my single bass speed is faster because of it. However I know there was a time where I relied on double bass too much, and from that end alone it sent me into the phase I'm in now, playing only with a single pedal, constantly changing my drum set up to challenge myself to be comfortable in any sitting, and finally to force creativity out onto these different configurations.

To that end I guess there really wouldn't be much to "regret" since out of me putting double bass to death, I've come out all the better and I really believe that. However I too had all these romantic ideas about how I really wouldn't use it to much or I'd find applications for it in other styles, and I personally haven't found use for it outside of rock and metal. I find that many notes from a drum that produces that much low end to be unfitting in many genres. Plus its not out of anyone's reach to hit fast speeds with one foot. Doing triplets ala "Good times Bad times" isn't difficult, and neither is straight 16ths.

Get the double pedal if you feel it necessary, but from my experience without me even realizing it, I let myself get lazy when I got the double bass. My drum fills suffered, my right foot suffered, and certainly my creative out put as a whole suffered. I don't know if I'll ever turn back to double bass for much more then practice purposes at this point. Hopefully my .02 gives you just a little bit of the other side to consider.
I just watched Thor and your writings sound very much like their vernacular. :) Maybe in between the two realms lies the answer. :)
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Old 09-14-2011, 05:36 AM
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Default Re: Has anyone regretted going from a single pedal to a double pedal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheIronCobr4 View Post
I'll be the one person to say I regret getting double bass. So much so that I stopped using it, and since then have felt an increase in my creativity and right foot strength. When I bought my double bass pedal, it served its purpose. I played a lot of fast metal. Since then however I've matured in not only life but musically. The aggression of metal no longer suits me, and the necessity of a 32nd note backdrop of double bass under a song is gone. In fact the only reason I look back at my playing a double bass pedal and regret it altogether is because I know that my single bass speed is faster because of it. However I know there was a time where I relied on double bass too much, and from that end alone it sent me into the phase I'm in now, playing only with a single pedal, constantly changing my drum set up to challenge myself to be comfortable in any sitting, and finally to force creativity out onto these different configurations.

To that end I guess there really wouldn't be much to "regret" since out of me putting double bass to death, I've come out all the better and I really believe that. However I too had all these romantic ideas about how I really wouldn't use it to much or I'd find applications for it in other styles, and I personally haven't found use for it outside of rock and metal. I find that many notes from a drum that produces that much low end to be unfitting in many genres. Plus its not out of anyone's reach to hit fast speeds with one foot. Doing triplets ala "Good times Bad times" isn't difficult, and neither is straight 16ths.

Get the double pedal if you feel it necessary, but from my experience without me even realizing it, I let myself get lazy when I got the double bass. My drum fills suffered, my right foot suffered, and certainly my creative out put as a whole suffered. I don't know if I'll ever turn back to double bass for much more then practice purposes at this point. Hopefully my .02 gives you just a little bit of the other side to consider.
Honorable feedback...

I was just thinking today - Why couldn't the bass drum also be used for multiple hits, flams and beats like the snare, and toms?

You are right about being able to hit the extended 16th's and triplets on a single pedal. Though I grow impatient trying to learn the slide technique after months of trying. I don't really play much metal, but I can see how the double BD pedal could be used for flams, quads, rolls...
...Ok still trying to justify a double BD pedal purchase.
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  #21  
Old 09-19-2011, 05:53 AM
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Default Re: Has anyone regretted going from a single pedal to a double pedal?

I've got an Elimimnator set, and I frequently go between double and single pedal setups. (Like TheIronCobr4, I also change setups to improve creativity - played a 3 piece for band practice on Saturday, it was great!)

The great thing is that you don't *always* have to use a double. I waited till I was proficient with a single before putting down the cash for the elims, so I am comfortable with both. There ARE technical advantages to using doubles- flams, more 'even' power with double hits, but I think of it in terms of what's the worst that could happen? The link, slave pedal and beater sit unused in the case? Heck, if you REALLY find you don't want it and go back to singles, find another aspiring metal drummer to relieve them from you! :P
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Old 09-19-2011, 03:24 PM
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Default Re: Has anyone regretted going from a single pedal to a double pedal?

In my opinion there's really nothing to regret. Adding a double pedal opens up a new world of using your left foot for something it didn't do before. As such it's a new challenge and can open up your playing.

After a little practice you'll be able to play those quads (so that's what they're called!) pretty smoothly, and you'll probably find that the double pedal phrases find their way into your general playing in a natural way.

Now I'm not a big speed merchant, and I mostly use the double pedal for accents, not all the time; but having the double pedal does allow me to play stuff I couldn't before, and I have a wider vocabulary of phrases than before, so for me it's a good thing. I don't take it to every gig, and I don't need to; but it sure is fun.
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Old 09-19-2011, 03:45 PM
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Default Re: Has anyone regretted going from a single pedal to a double pedal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mutzy View Post
I've got an Elimimnator set, and I frequently go between double and single pedal setups. (Like TheIronCobr4, I also change setups to improve creativity - played a 3 piece for band practice on Saturday, it was great!)

The great thing is that you don't *always* have to use a double. I waited till I was proficient with a single before putting down the cash for the elims, so I am comfortable with both. There ARE technical advantages to using doubles- flams, more 'even' power with double hits, but I think of it in terms of what's the worst that could happen? The link, slave pedal and beater sit unused in the case? Heck, if you REALLY find you don't want it and go back to singles, find another aspiring metal drummer to relieve them from you! :P
Makes sense. I do like the technical advantages they provide. Have always loved options and variety!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonzo_CR View Post
In my opinion there's really nothing to regret. Adding a double pedal opens up a new world of using your left foot for something it didn't do before. As such it's a new challenge and can open up your playing.

After a little practice you'll be able to play those quads (so that's what they're called!) pretty smoothly, and you'll probably find that the double pedal phrases find their way into your general playing in a natural way.

Now I'm not a big speed merchant, and I mostly use the double pedal for accents, not all the time; but having the double pedal does allow me to play stuff I couldn't before, and I have a wider vocabulary of phrases than before, so for me it's a good thing. I don't take it to every gig, and I don't need to; but it sure is fun.
Yeah, I can see just how it could add more flavor to licks, rolls, quads, accents. I mean - we use 2 hands/sticks on the toms and snare. Why not do the same on the bass drum?
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Old 09-19-2011, 08:21 PM
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Default Re: Has anyone regretted going from a single pedal to a double pedal?

No regrets here ... I grew up in the dark ages ... before the double pedal ... and we simple had to carry around two kick drums ....
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