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  #1  
Old 09-01-2011, 02:06 PM
mediocrefunkybeat
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Default A Really Riveting Thread

I know, I know. I just couldn't help myself, could I? I'm so sorry for the harm caused by that pun.

On the other hand, I've just riveted my Istanbul Ride. For those that haven't read the other thread, I was considering riveting it to get more of a 'cushion' out of the ride whilst keeping the stick definition that it has. It's a great ride, I just wanted to get a little more out of it. So I decided to rivet.

I've included a pair of sound files. One before, one after. These were recorded with a pair of overheads and a mic on the kick (such that it is, it's my 16" bass!). The only processing is panning, mic placement and level adjustment. There's absolutely no EQ or compression on the recordings. The playing is a little on the ropey side (as always) but is representative of how I usually play this cymbal.

First, the pictures. Clamp, mark, drill, insert and hammer slightly. That's all there is to it!

Pro tip: When you download the .Wav files, they won't play properly. Go to the filename and it'll read 'filename.wav.html' - delete the .html part from the end of the file name so that it reads 'filename.wav' then it should play properly. This forum always seems to do that and I don't know why!
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File Type: wav Ride Sample 1.wav (4.37 MB, 240 views)
File Type: wav Ride Sample 2.wav (4.37 MB, 222 views)
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  #2  
Old 09-01-2011, 02:12 PM
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Default Re: A Really Riveting Thread

Sounds great man! Makes me want one....
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  #3  
Old 09-01-2011, 02:54 PM
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Default Re: A Really Riveting Thread

Sounds way better with rivets. Good call.
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Old 09-01-2011, 03:00 PM
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Default Re: A Really Riveting Thread

Very nice, MFB! I love the sound.

So nice that I'll even forgive you for stealing my "riveting" pun without proper attribution.

Generous on a Thursday morning,
8Mile
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Old 09-01-2011, 03:08 PM
mediocrefunkybeat
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Default Re: A Really Riveting Thread

Ah sorry, I'll cite 'obviousness' as my defence against your team of patent attorneys that will try to sack me for using your pun. Actually, that means I'm not sorry at all!

I actually learned a lot doing this again. One problem I had is that the counter punch I have was too small to flange the rivets - so I used a Philips headed screwdriver to splay it slightly instead. Worked very well and I'll be damned if I'm going down to the DIY store to get a new counter punch unless it's absolutely necessary.

If anyone is going to do this, I have three sage bits of drilling advice:

i) Always, always, always drill a pilot hole. In this case, I drilled a 2mm pilot hole first. That part took about two minutes to go through but meant that the 4mm hole was much easier and ended up in the right position.

ii) Don't try this with a cordless drill. Unless your cordless has big cojones. It'll just make a mess of it and you'll try pushing too hard.

iii) Don't push the drill bit. Let it do the work slowly and about half way through you can drive it gently. That's what took the time for me but I know that the bit I used (a metal bit, that's important) can be used again and made a clean hole. Pushing the bit will blunt it, put excess heat into the cymbal and generally stress the whole affair. Don't be tempted!
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Old 09-01-2011, 06:51 PM
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Default Re: A Really Riveting Thread

Looks good! I put few in an older AA china a little bit ago. I was able to do it with a cordless drill no problem. Though, it did take quite a while... and I just used a screwdriver as well for splitting the heads.
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Old 09-01-2011, 06:57 PM
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Default Re: A Really Riveting Thread

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Originally Posted by Cephalic View Post
Looks good! I put few in an older AA china a little bit ago. I was able to do it with a cordless drill no problem. Though, it did take quite a while...
My prejudice against cordless drills in this instance is that it would tempt me to 'push' the bit through the cymbal. Even with a higher-speed corded drill it took a while on this Istanbul. I'm sure a cordless could work but I would advise against it if you have the choice. Pushing the bit (and the temptation to do it) could put a lot of undue stress on the cymbal and heat - which could locally alter the tempering and create a weak spot.

It's a technique issue as much as anything else.
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Old 09-01-2011, 07:19 PM
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Default Re: A Really Riveting Thread

Ah... yea, I'd be lying if I said I didn't get a bit impatient and try pushing it a few times. No harm done, but you're right. That's all I had though. Honestly, I was riveting the china more for experimentation's sake. I tend to take hammers and drills to my drum equipment more than I probably should, haha. I just like messing with stuff.
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Old 09-01-2011, 07:20 PM
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Default Re: A Really Riveting Thread

The number of holes in my 16" bass drum are testament to how much I enjoy power tools. I can entirely sympathise!
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  #10  
Old 09-02-2011, 05:48 AM
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Default Re: A Really Riveting Thread

Great sound Duncan, I imagine it sounds fabulous with that dark dry paiste.
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  #11  
Old 09-02-2011, 10:40 AM
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Default Re: A Really Riveting Thread

I have a 20 Spizzichino with 6 rivets. Love the sound of rivets with both sticks and brushes.

GJS
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  #12  
Old 09-02-2011, 01:12 PM
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Default Re: A Really Riveting Thread

I am SO jealous, Skulmoski.
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  #13  
Old 09-02-2011, 02:13 PM
mediocrefunkybeat
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Default Re: A Really Riveting Thread

I don't think jealousy quite covers it! I couldn't play a Spizz, my hands aren't nuanced enough. At least that's what I keep telling myself.
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Old 09-07-2011, 12:23 PM
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Default Re: A Really Riveting Thread

Excellent! I'm about to do this exact thing to a super dry 22" Bosphorus Master Vintage Ride this weekend.

Few questions...

- What brand of rivets did you use?

- I know going super slow is one of the keys but did you use drill oil or water to help keep the heat down on the drill bit?

- How far in from the edge did you drill?

Thanks.
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Old 09-07-2011, 12:44 PM
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Default Re: A Really Riveting Thread

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Originally Posted by dmacc View Post
Excellent! I'm about to do this exact thing to a super dry 22" Bosphorus Master Vintage Ride this weekend.

Few questions...

- What brand of rivets did you use?

- I know going super slow is one of the keys but did you use drill oil or water to help keep the heat down on the drill bit?

- How far in from the edge did you drill?

Thanks.
These are Zildjian rivets. They cost me 0.59 from one of the UK's bigger retailers!

I didn't use drill oil or water but I wouldn't discourage you from doing so. It certainly won't do any harm using it and will probably make the process quicker and easier. Just be careful to get rid of it immediately if you do use it. I don't think it's necessary but I can't see it doing harm.

The rivets are about an inch and a half from the edge and an inch apart.
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Old 09-07-2011, 08:41 PM
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Default Re: A Really Riveting Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by mediocrefunkybeat View Post
These are Zildjian rivets. They cost me 0.59 from one of the UK's bigger retailers!

I didn't use drill oil or water but I wouldn't discourage you from doing so. It certainly won't do any harm using it and will probably make the process quicker and easier. Just be careful to get rid of it immediately if you do use it. I don't think it's necessary but I can't see it doing harm.

The rivets are about an inch and a half from the edge and an inch apart.
Thanks so much! I'll probably try the cool water approach as I can't locate any applicable oil in the local store.
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  #17  
Old 09-07-2011, 09:41 PM
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Default Re: A Really Riveting Thread

I bought 1/8th inch rivets from the hardware store. Sorry Zildjian, but the bag full was just so much cheaper. Then I drilled 1/8th inch holes. Neither are precise so there is room for rattle. I had a new bit, drilled 21 holes, and it took no time at all. Did he say 21? Yep took a Masterwork Crash cymbal and made a funky effects cymbal. Just don't forget to put a wood block behind the cymbal to keep it from bowing down as you drill.
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  #18  
Old 09-07-2011, 09:45 PM
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Default Re: A Really Riveting Thread

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Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD View Post
I bought 1/8th inch rivets from the hardware store. Sorry Zildjian, but the bag full was just so much cheaper. Then I drilled 1/8th inch holes. Neither are precise so there is room for rattle. I had a new bit, drilled 21 holes, and it took no time at all. Did he say 21? Yep took a Masterwork Crash cymbal and made a funky effects cymbal. Just don't forget to put a wood block behind the cymbal to keep it from bowing down as you drill.
21??? You're my hero!

Thanks for the reminder of the wood block behind the cymbal.

I didn't look to hard and far for rivets but a bag of 8 Bosphorus rivets cost me 4.00 Lowes probably sells 100 of them for 5.00 but I think I'm only going to use 3 anyways.
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Old 09-08-2011, 07:13 AM
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Default Re: A Really Riveting Thread

I bought my rivets from cymbalsonly.com

I think he's got 4 different types to choose from? I got two packs--a small set and a large set.
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Old 09-08-2011, 07:27 AM
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Default Re: A Really Riveting Thread

Oh the "pun"ishment!! I don't know if I can take it!

Yeah. I can. The cymbal sounds great, Duncan.

How did you decide on rivet placement? I'm used to seeing them spread more evenly around the cymbal. In any case, what you did works! Nice!
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  #21  
Old 09-08-2011, 12:58 PM
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Default Re: A Really Riveting Thread

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I bought my rivets from cymbalsonly.com

I think he's got 4 different types to choose from? I got two packs--a small set and a large set.
That's where I got mine from as well.
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  #22  
Old 09-08-2011, 01:07 PM
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Default Re: A Really Riveting Thread

i see, that tempo was lower in sample 2 with the rivets.

Is this a given fact that rivets are slowing down everything or do we just enjoy more and longer every beat, because it sounds so nice?

Bernhard
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Old 09-08-2011, 05:58 PM
mediocrefunkybeat
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Default Re: A Really Riveting Thread

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i see, that tempo was lower in sample 2 with the rivets.

Is this a given fact that rivets are slowing down everything or do we just enjoy more and longer every beat, because it sounds so nice?

Bernhard
Nothing to read into it, just me being useless.

Actually there was a click on just before I did the second take, I turned it off to do the take and then played at that speed anyway!

IDDrummer - There are two schools of thoughts on rivet placement. I prefer 'clustered' because I want the sound to be fairly even and concentrated. In reality it probably doesn't make an awful lot of difference, I just prefer the way it looks. I put the rivets 90 degrees to where the ride tends to naturally rest. That lets me play closer to the rivets (if I choose) than if I had put them the full 180 degrees away from where I play. Just preference really, there's no real reason why I did it that way.
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Old 09-11-2011, 09:45 AM
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Default Re: A Really Riveting Thread

Duncan, help! Just got my Mac. How do I take the html out to make it play? When I click on the file, it opens a download box directly. Once the download is complete, I'm just left with an empty download box. As you know, there's no right click on a Mac mouse to give me options (actually, don't know how to replicate a right click function on a Mac mouse anyhow). I wanna hear your cymbal!!!!! Help please.
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  #25  
Old 09-11-2011, 12:05 PM
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Default Re: A Really Riveting Thread

I think it's Ctrl + click

(or one of the keys near control :))
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  #26  
Old 09-11-2011, 12:13 PM
mediocrefunkybeat
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Default Re: A Really Riveting Thread

Calm, Andy!

Ctrl-click or a quick click on the filename. If you have any questions, PM me and I'll give you my Skype. If you don't have that, I'll give you my email!
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Old 09-11-2011, 03:47 PM
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Default Re: A Really Riveting Thread

Nah, still not happening.
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Old 09-11-2011, 03:59 PM
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Default Re: A Really Riveting Thread

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Nah, still not happening.
PM me, I'll see what I can do...

Just clicking on the filename enables you to change it. I get that changing over from a PC to a Mac can take a bit of getting used to but you'll manage it fine.
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  #29  
Old 09-11-2011, 05:31 PM
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Default Re: A Really Riveting Thread

is it a macbook? if you click with two fingers, that's basically the "right click." or, hold control and click--same thing.

edit: oh, i get the same problem actually... i think because it's a wav file. i don't think macs support that without downloaded something.
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  #30  
Old 09-12-2011, 06:23 PM
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Default Re: A Really Riveting Thread

.Wav files should work on a Mac just fine. I've never had a problem with .Wav files on my Mac. Just rename the file and remove the .html bit at the end.

QuickTime will play .Wav files fine as will VLC.
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