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  #1  
Old 07-08-2011, 10:37 PM
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Default More attack from coated toms?

I recently saw some patches like you get on Evans Power Centre/Remo Control Sound for sale. If I chucked some of them on my coated tom skins, do you think I'd get a bit more attack out of them or would they just muffle them?

I don't really want to switch back to clear skins cos I like the warmth of coated - but I do want a fraction more attack. I'm trying to think of ways to get a bit more attack out of my skins without killing resonance.
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Old 07-10-2011, 09:36 PM
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Default Re: More attack from coated toms?

Remo Smooth White Drum Heads
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Old 07-10-2011, 10:27 PM
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Default Re: More attack from coated toms?

OR SUEDE

Since they have white ones now. lol
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Old 07-10-2011, 11:09 PM
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Default Re: More attack from coated toms?

Believe me, try some Remo Smooth White Drum Heads...you wont be sorry.
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  #5  
Old 07-10-2011, 11:27 PM
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Default Re: More attack from coated toms?

A change in tuning could work. If not, then the suede's might work. I haven't heard anything in smooth white heads.
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  #6  
Old 07-10-2011, 11:28 PM
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Default Re: More attack from coated toms?

Coateds too warm, clears too bright, what is this, the Three Little Bears lol?

I 2nd the smooth whites, they might be just what you crave. They have an inherintly warm sound and since there is no coating, your stick slap is more present. I wish they would make a smooth white in 1 ply. Ludwig might but I think its a 7 mil head, too wimpy IMO.

Or take a coated and remove the middle 2 inches of coating somehow. They should make those types of heads, with the coating removed in the center for attack. A pad will take away attack. The thinner the head is, the more pronounced the attack.

I use 2 ply coated emps on my snare. The coating started wearing off in the center. I really liked the sound. But it looked like it needed changing, so I changed it. Stupid right? It sounds a lot dryer now. I almost want to put the old head back on. I scoured the new head with one of those green Scotchbrite pads to take some of the roughness off, and make it sound more lively from the get go. I'll try it tonight to see if that did anything.

Does anybody use a clear head on their snare? Maybe I'll give it a go. I do love a lively, ringy, overtone-y snare tone, and I don't use the brushes that much.
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Old 07-10-2011, 11:28 PM
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Default Re: More attack from coated toms?

My suggestion, and I am not being a smart aleck here, is to get more attack through technique rather than worrying about changing the heads. Plus, it's cheaper!

I believe a person can get ample attack from a coated head by using plenty of wrist snap in the striking of the drum.

In years past, I have actually tried a similar product to what you are describing, and it will also do what you want - give you a bit more attack. But I had trouble getting them to stay stuck on a coated head. Maybe adhesive technology has improved since then, lol.
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Old 07-10-2011, 11:33 PM
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Default Re: More attack from coated toms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post

Does anybody use a clear head on their snare? Maybe I'll give it a go. I don't use the brushes that much.
Larry, I used to have a Remo 3X14 piccolo snare that sounded incredible with a Remo Black Dot on it. I know you like a snare with tons of attack - try it, you might like it!
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  #9  
Old 07-10-2011, 11:37 PM
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Default Re: More attack from coated toms?

Maybe a reverse black dot. Can't be sticking stuff on my playing surface. What the hell, I'll give it a go and write a review.
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  #10  
Old 07-11-2011, 05:28 AM
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Default Re: More attack from coated toms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
I wish they would make a smooth white in 1 ply. Ludwig might but I think its a 7 mil head, too wimpy IMO.

By "They" I am assuming you mean Remo.

YES THEY DO MAKE A SINGLE PLY SMOOTH WHITE HEAD! IT'S YOUR LUCKY DAY!


They make an Ambassador Smooth White...

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/drums...ELAID=26031125


Also, a Diplomat Smooth White...

http://www.interstatemusic.com/webap...campaign=gbase

Also they make controlled sound (single ply with dot), emperor, Powerstroke 3 and Powerstroke 4.
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  #11  
Old 07-11-2011, 05:30 AM
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Default Re: More attack from coated toms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Does anybody use a clear head on their snare?
I have heard a Remo C.S. CLEAR with Clear Dot on a snare that sounded GREAT.

This is the same head that Neil Peart Swore by for many years...nuff said.
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  #12  
Old 07-11-2011, 02:39 PM
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Default Re: More attack from coated toms?

Yes I do! An Evans G1 Clear head - on the snare batter side, no moongel pads nor duck tape...It rings true and heavy!!!

+ Evans G1 Clear head - on the high tom batter side..."Brushes..? Nah. Hit 'em as hard as you can."

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Does anybody use a clear head on their snare? Maybe I'll give it a go. I do love a lively, ringy, overtone-y snare tone, and I don't use the brushes that much.
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  #13  
Old 07-11-2011, 06:57 PM
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Default Re: More attack from coated toms?

If you're looking to maintain the warmth of a coated head but obtain more pronounced attack, you should definitely be using a 2-ply head. If that still doesn't do it for you, try changing stick types. More contact area across the tip will offer more attack.

Cheers!
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  #14  
Old 07-11-2011, 09:07 PM
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Default Re: More attack from coated toms?

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Or take a coated and remove the middle 2 inches of coating somehow. They should make those types of heads, with the coating removed in the center for attack.
Seconded. You heard the man Evans Specialist. Move, move, move!

Anyone know of any good Coated vs Smooth White comparison videos they can link me to? Remo don't do sound examples like they have on the Evans site do they?
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  #15  
Old 07-12-2011, 05:41 AM
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Default Re: More attack from coated toms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvansSpecialist View Post
If you're looking to maintain the warmth of a coated head but obtain more pronounced attack, you should definitely be using a 2-ply head. If that still doesn't do it for you, try changing stick types. More contact area across the tip will offer more attack.

Cheers!
Not my experience. A clear Emperor style head (two 7mm plys) is not going to resemble ANYTHING like a coated heads warmth. It's still going to have that plastic-y "Clank" sound All clear heads have.

Evans doesn't make anything like the Smooth White. In this situation, I would suggest remo drumheads all the way.

(not bashing Evans, in fact I am rocking some Evans G plus heads on my kit right now! there great)
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  #16  
Old 07-12-2011, 09:56 AM
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Default Re: More attack from coated toms?

Another thing: You can try sticks that have a different tip, like acorn or barrel, if you don't use stick with those already. I had some sticks with acorn tips and then used some with oval tips and the change in sound was very surprising!
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  #17  
Old 07-12-2011, 10:07 AM
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Default Re: More attack from coated toms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Does anybody use a clear head on their snare? Maybe I'll give it a go. I do love a lively, ringy, overtone-y snare tone, and I don't use the brushes that much.
ummmm, back in 80 something or other I used a clear pinstripe. hehe
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  #18  
Old 07-12-2011, 01:20 PM
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Default Re: More attack from coated toms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goreliscious View Post
I recently saw some patches like you get on Evans Power Centre/Remo Control Sound for sale. If I chucked some of them on my coated tom skins, do you think I'd get a bit more attack out of them or would they just muffle them?

I don't really want to switch back to clear skins cos I like the warmth of coated - but I do want a fraction more attack. I'm trying to think of ways to get a bit more attack out of my skins without killing resonance.
EC2 coated. If you want attack + warmth... the perfect choice...
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  #19  
Old 07-12-2011, 03:14 PM
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Default Re: More attack from coated toms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by classicstar View Post
OR SUEDE

Since they have white ones now. lol
They have had white ones for years now
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  #20  
Old 07-12-2011, 03:32 PM
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Default Re: More attack from coated toms?

For attack, my ear tells me a 1 ply head is superior in that regard. Thinner heads = crisper attack. Yes you get attack w/ 2 ply heads but the quality of the tone of the attack is "thicker" compared to the attack of a 1 ply IMO.

I'm talking toms only. Snare and bass have different rules in my book.
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  #21  
Old 07-12-2011, 04:03 PM
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Default Re: More attack from coated toms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
They should make those types of heads, with the coating removed in the center for attack.
Remo already make them Larry. Custom bald patch positioning too. Just take any Remo coated head & play them for about 30 seconds, lol!
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  #22  
Old 07-19-2011, 06:33 PM
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Default Re: More attack from coated toms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cobamnator View Post
Not my experience. A clear Emperor style head (two 7mm plys) is not going to resemble ANYTHING like a coated heads warmth. It's still going to have that plastic-y "Clank" sound All clear heads have.

Evans doesn't make anything like the Smooth White. In this situation, I would suggest remo drumheads all the way.

(not bashing Evans, in fact I am rocking some Evans G plus heads on my kit right now! there great)
I'm sorry, I may not have been clear enough. A coated 2-ply head will offer the warmth of a coated single-ply but with greater attack.
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  #23  
Old 07-19-2011, 06:45 PM
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Default Re: More attack from coated toms?

Evans USED TO have a fantastic head with White film that was coated.
It was the UNO58.

I wish they would bring that head back into production, and I wish they would make it up to 26".
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Old 07-19-2011, 06:54 PM
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Default Re: More attack from coated toms?

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Originally Posted by KarlCrafton View Post
Evans USED TO have a fantastic head with White film that was coated.
It was the UNO58.

I wish they would bring that head back into production, and I wish they would make it up to 26".
Just to clarify, the UNO heads aren't an Evans line. They are another brand of heads made overseas that are owned by Evans. I'll definitely look into the possibility of some white film heads with a coating. The black version of this would be the Onyx series (though with a clear coating).
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  #25  
Old 07-20-2011, 03:43 PM
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Default Re: More attack from coated toms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvansSpecialist View Post
Just to clarify, the UNO heads aren't an Evans line. They are another brand of heads made overseas that are owned by Evans. I'll definitely look into the possibility of some white film heads with a coating. The black version of this would be the Onyx series (though with a clear coating).
Never knew UNO58 weren't made by Evans. This was about 10-11 years ago I was using them. Had them for a while and then all of a sudden, poof, gone.
When I bought them might have been pre-D'Adarrio, or just as the change over was happening?

Gennera was pretty much the replacement, (then G1, G2).
Other than the UNO58, all the other (coated) heads (I saw anyway) were coated over clear film.
Was that Dynaflex film? They sounded just like Coated Ambassadors, so I just thought that it was the same Mylar film. I sorta figured it was discontinued in order to be completely different than Remo's offerings.

I really liked those heads, but one person, or a just a small portion of people liking a simple head, and tuning to get the sound you want, doesn't match the millions of people that don't have a clue, and want it to "sound like a recording" right out of the box.
Oh well.
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  #26  
Old 07-21-2011, 02:17 AM
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Default Re: More attack from coated toms?

I use coated G2's on my supra. The main reason, other than the fact that it's a great head and consistent in sound, is that the coating doesn't wear off easy. A standard Remo coated emperor is coating over clear film, but it looks like crap after a gig or two. Coating over white film would be awesome. The old coated emperors were white film and they sounded better than the current offering, plus you couldn't tell as much when the coating wore off. A coated white G2 would get my vote for sure!
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  #27  
Old 07-21-2011, 07:06 PM
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Default Re: More attack from coated toms?

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Originally Posted by cdrums21 View Post
I use coated G2's on my supra. The main reason, other than the fact that it's a great head and consistent in sound, is that the coating doesn't wear off easy. A standard Remo coated emperor is coating over clear film, but it looks like crap after a gig or two. Coating over white film would be awesome. The old coated emperors were white film and they sounded better than the current offering, plus you couldn't tell as much when the coating wore off. A coated white G2 would get my vote for sure!

You want the JP model Emperor then (if you want a Remo product). 2 plies of white film, coated. Nice heads, just like the old ones.
I've come to like the clear/coated heads sound, but I've never had the coating come off on me either.

The G2 is a cool head too, it just doesn't have the "crack" or (slightly drier) crispness the Remo heads have to my ear.
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  #28  
Old 07-21-2011, 10:05 PM
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Default Re: More attack from coated toms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlCrafton View Post
The G2 is a cool head too, it just doesn't have the "crack" or (slightly drier) crispness the Remo heads have to my ear.
With the appropriate tuning you can definitely achieve a drier or more open tone out of the G2's.
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  #29  
Old 07-25-2011, 06:45 PM
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Default Re: More attack from coated toms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvansSpecialist View Post
With the appropriate tuning you can definitely achieve a drier or more open tone out of the G2's.
Of course, and I had nice results when I used the coated G1 and G2 at first.

Coated G2 with the UNO head sounded fantastic. When I had to go with Coated G2 with a clear or coated G1, the nice crisp tone was gone, and I had a more throaty tone that I didn't want.
The sound was good, I just didn't hear things I wanted to hear in the overall sound of my drums when the UNO58 wasn't available anymore.

To my ear the overall tone is just not as crisp, but that would be due to the type of coating, and the way the head is made as well.
Evans makes quality stuff, I'm not disputing that, and people can debate the coating quality of any company.

There have been other heads put out since then, like the G+ heads and others, I just haven't made the investment to try them out because I was happy with the Coated Ambassadors.
The Power Center TOP dot head is very nice sounding. I like that one a lot on the snare.

Off the subject of toms....
It would be nice if a Coated G1 was available in a 26" size. I'd like to see a 26" head without a muffle ring.
Even though the one on the EQ1 frosted is small, I just don't want a muffle ring on my bass drum head.
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  #30  
Old 07-26-2011, 05:44 PM
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Default Re: More attack from coated toms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlCrafton View Post
Off the subject of toms....
It would be nice if a Coated G1 was available in a 26" size. I'd like to see a 26" head without a muffle ring.
Even though the one on the EQ1 frosted is small, I just don't want a muffle ring on my bass drum head.
We'll definitely keep this in mind, though there aren't many people out there who seem to share your interest for an unmuffled 26" bass drum head. Maybe sometime in the not too distant future though...
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Old 07-26-2011, 08:38 PM
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Default Re: More attack from coated toms?

Rimshot your toms! Makes a big difference for me.
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  #32  
Old 07-26-2011, 08:39 PM
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Default Re: More attack from coated toms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvansSpecialist View Post
We'll definitely keep this in mind, though there aren't many people out there who seem to share your interest for an unmuffled 26" bass drum head. Maybe sometime in the not too distant future though...
I'll be looking for a 24" single ply unmuffled head when my current head is due for replacement. Just sayin'...
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  #33  
Old 07-26-2011, 10:19 PM
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Default Re: More attack from coated toms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cdrums21 View Post
I use coated G2's on my supra. The main reason, other than the fact that it's a great head and consistent in sound, is that the coating doesn't wear off easy. A standard Remo coated emperor is coating over clear film, but it looks like crap after a gig or two. Coating over white film would be awesome. The old coated emperors were white film and they sounded better than the current offering, plus you couldn't tell as much when the coating wore off. A coated white G2 would get my vote for sure!
I think the Vintage Emps are coated over a white film.
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Old 07-27-2011, 07:16 PM
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Default Re: More attack from coated toms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvansSpecialist View Post
We'll definitely keep this in mind, though there aren't many people out there who seem to share your interest for an unmuffled 26" bass drum head. Maybe sometime in the not too distant future though...
That seems to be the problem, not many people want them un-muffled.
Maybe they just don't know what I know haha! :-)
Kind of surprising that even a G2 isn't offered in 26".

On a bass drum, the head needs some muffling sure, but I find that there's more problems with shells that don't have anything at the bottom of the drum disrupting the sound from bouncing all over and causing hums and whatnot. Whatever is in there doesn't need to touch either head.
Batter and reso heads both muffled and then placing a mic inside a smooth cylinder?....

Calls for heavy EQ and gates in most venues...unless you get lucky with a FOH guy who doesn't believe in Gates and tweaks the sound to get everything sounding cool--like the FOH guy for Poison who mixed our show last night in Detroit (DTE).
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