DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > Drum Gear > Heads and Sticks

Heads and Sticks Discuss Heads and Sticks

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 06-21-2011, 05:38 AM
cobamnator's Avatar
cobamnator cobamnator is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 284
Default Coated Ambassadors Batters AND Rezos

I have a maple kit...12" 14" 16" toms.

What sound would I get by putting Coated Remo Ambassadors (or Evans Coated G1 / Genera) heads on both BATTER side AND Resonate side?

I tune medium pitch.

However, sometimes I like to tune very low to get a Fat, Bassy, Deep, Modern tone.

Also, Sometimes I tune REALLY high ala Stewart copland.

Would the Coated Remo Ambassadors on both sides be able to handle this?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-21-2011, 05:49 AM
Bo Eder's Avatar
Bo Eder Bo Eder is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 10,238
Default Re: Coated Ambassadors Batters AND Rezos

This is the ultimate "old skool" combination and many players have used it for many years. You can't go wrong with it at all. Some players still use Ambassadors on both sides and you should be able to get tones from jazz-pingy to nice and phat. From time-to-time I go with coated ambassadors on both sides when I don't use coated emperors on both sides.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-21-2011, 07:07 AM
audiotech
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Coated Ambassadors Batters AND Rezos

I'm using coated Ambassadors for the batter and resonant heads on one of my kits now. They are also maple shells and the diameter of the drums are the same as yours. I never really tune high, but basically tune as close to the shells resonance as I can. My other kits have the standard Evans G1 clear heads on the resonant side with their batter heads being either G2 clear, G1 coated or G2 coated.

Dennis
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-21-2011, 10:36 PM
cobamnator's Avatar
cobamnator cobamnator is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 284
Default Re: Coated Ambassadors Batters AND Rezos

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiotech View Post
I'm using coated Ambassadors for the batter and resonant heads on one of my kits now....I never really tune high, but basically tune as close to the shells resonance as I can.


First off thank you Bo and audiotech for the info.

audiotech, would you mind delving in a little bit on how to tune to the "shells resonance"?

Like I said, I tune medium, Maybe Medium-low. But I try to tune so the drums are at their Loudest, Ringy-est, Most Resonate, while still trying to make them sound "Deep" and "Big".

Any tips out there to tune like this?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-22-2011, 07:23 AM
audiotech
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Coated Ambassadors Batters AND Rezos

Each shell has a particular frequency or pitch and this frequency depends primarily on the size of the shell. The smaller the shell the higher it's resonating frequency will be. This way I let the shell's size work for me being the deciding factor for its pitch. If I half to, I'll nudge it a bit either way, but always keeping the tuning within the shell's perimeters.

The short version is to remove your batter head and start just with your resonant head and slowly bring up the tension until you hear a nice sustained pitch or note, the sweet spot, from the drum and then make sure the head is in tune with itself. Now do the same to the batter head trying to get it to the approximate pitch of the resonant head.

The long version.

The easiest way is to start with your resonant head, leaving the batter head off at first. Make sure the head is seated well and all the tension rods are just making contact with the hoops of the drum. Slowly and very evenly increase the tension on the rods, either one at a time or you can do the double key approach adjusting one tension rod and at the same time adjusting the rod directly across the drum from the first rod. I usually use one key adjusting the rods in a star-like pattern. It all depends on the diameter of the drum the amount you want to turn each rod. An 8" tom will require less of a turn to get it started than what a 12" rack or 16" floor tom will. Start with about a half turn of each rod, then you may have to go to a quarter of a turn, it all depends on the drum. What you want to listen for is the start of resonance in the shell. It will start off as sounding very flat, flabby and plasticy with no apparent tone or pitch. If you go too far, the pitch will increase, but the sustain will decrease. Then you'll have to loosen each rod to get back the resonance and sustain you lost. When you get to where you want it, make sure the head is in tune with itself by tapping about an inch in from each tension rod and listen to each pitch. By slightly adjusting a rod that is too high or one that's too low, you'll be able to get each rod on the resonant head approximately sounding the same. Now the resonant head is tuned to the shell and also to itself.

Turn the drum over with the tuned resonant head laying on a carpet to temporarily muffle the bottom head. Do the exact same thing to the batter head trying to make sure the batter head is about the same pitch as the resonant head when you're finished. You can do this by laying the drum on its side on the carpet or on tom stand and hit each head listening for the same pitch. If you want the drum's pitch a bit higher, just make minute changes to each rod, maybe an eighth or sixteenth of a turn at a time until you get the drum's sound to where you want it.

I wrote this in reference to coated heads. If I was working with clear heads, I would do it a bit differently and the process would be much quicker because you can readily see the wrinkles in the head as you start to tension them and I never leave any wrinkles in the drum heads.

Remember work slowly and evenly until you get onto it. It probably took me longer to type this than it would to re-head a drum, lol. But I don't type very fast.

This is just one way that works for me when I tune drums. There are literally dozens of different ways that work well for others. If you don't like sustain, this might not work well for you.

I hope this gets you in the ball park. It sounds more difficult than it really is.

Dennis
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-22-2011, 09:53 PM
cobamnator's Avatar
cobamnator cobamnator is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 284
Default Re: Coated Ambassadors Batters AND Rezos

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiotech View Post
Each shell has a particular frequency or pitch and this frequency depends primarily on the size of the shell. The smaller the shell the higher it's resonating frequency will be. This way I let the shell's size work for me being the deciding factor for its pitch. If I half to, I'll nudge it a bit either way, but always keeping the tuning within the shell's perimeters.

The short version is to remove your batter head and start just with your resonant head and slowly bring up the tension until you hear a nice sustained pitch or note, the sweet spot, from the drum and then make sure the head is in tune with itself. Now do the same to the batter head trying to get it to the approximate pitch of the resonant head.

The long version.

The easiest way is to start with your resonant head, leaving the batter head off at first. Make sure the head is seated well and all the tension rods are just making contact with the hoops of the drum. Slowly and very evenly increase the tension on the rods, either one at a time or you can do the double key approach adjusting one tension rod and at the same time adjusting the rod directly across the drum from the first rod. I usually use one key adjusting the rods in a star-like pattern. It all depends on the diameter of the drum the amount you want to turn each rod. An 8" tom will require less of a turn to get it started than what a 12" rack or 16" floor tom will. Start with about a half turn of each rod, then you may have to go to a quarter of a turn, it all depends on the drum. What you want to listen for is the start of resonance in the shell. It will start off as sounding very flat, flabby and plasticy with no apparent tone or pitch. If you go too far, the pitch will increase, but the sustain will decrease. Then you'll have to loosen each rod to get back the resonance and sustain you lost. When you get to where you want it, make sure the head is in tune with itself by tapping about an inch in from each tension rod and listen to each pitch. By slightly adjusting a rod that is too high or one that's too low, you'll be able to get each rod on the resonant head approximately sounding the same. Now the resonant head is tuned to the shell and also to itself.

Turn the drum over with the tuned resonant head laying on a carpet to temporarily muffle the bottom head. Do the exact same thing to the batter head trying to make sure the batter head is about the same pitch as the resonant head when you're finished. You can do this by laying the drum on its side on the carpet or on tom stand and hit each head listening for the same pitch. If you want the drum's pitch a bit higher, just make minute changes to each rod, maybe an eighth or sixteenth of a turn at a time until you get the drum's sound to where you want it.

I wrote this in reference to coated heads. If I was working with clear heads, I would do it a bit differently and the process would be much quicker because you can readily see the wrinkles in the head as you start to tension them and I never leave any wrinkles in the drum heads.

Remember work slowly and evenly until you get onto it. It probably took me longer to type this than it would to re-head a drum, lol. But I don't type very fast.

This is just one way that works for me when I tune drums. There are literally dozens of different ways that work well for others. If you don't like sustain, this might not work well for you.

I hope this gets you in the ball park. It sounds more difficult than it really is.

Dennis
I appreciate your response. Even more so that you would take the time to write this, when you are an admittedly slow typer. So thank you.

This is basically my technique what you described here.

I always finish tuning, by tuning UP. In other words I am not going to De-Tune a lug and just leave it. I find they stay in tune longer this way.

Also, I find tune both heads the same pitch = most sustain this way. Do you find this to be true also?

But I totally understand what you are saying about tuning TOO low will not give you optimum sustain, but tuning too HIGH will also do the same thing. But I have a very hard time finding the perfect balance. I am still trying to work on tuning exactly to shell resonance for optimum sustain. Any tips on doing this specifically?

You say "What you want to listen for is the start of resonance in the shell." does that mean hitting the shell and listing for tone? What is the easiest way?

Finally, I can tune the Head to itself EXACTLY (to my ears, and I believe I have a decent pair) then I will whip out my DrumDial, and some of the lugs will be totally off from eachother.

So I wondering if I should JUST use my ears, or the Drumdial....

Last edited by cobamnator; 06-22-2011 at 09:53 PM. Reason: spelling
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-23-2011, 07:57 AM
audiotech
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Coated Ambassadors Batters AND Rezos

Yes, tuning the batter and the resonant heads close to the same pitch should give you maximum sustain for any given head combination for the toms.

If you do have to loosen the tension rods because the heads ended up with too high of a pitch, just loosen the rod just a bit more than you really think is necessary, then you can re-tension the rods to get to where you want to be. In other works loosen each rod about an eighth or a sixteenth of a turn, then tighten them again every so slightly. When you think about it, if you have a head that's perfectly in tune with itself, but it's just a bit too high or too low in pitch, it doesn't take much of an adjustment at all to get it to where it should be. If you have six lugs per side of your drum, just making an adjustment of just a quarter of a turn to each of the six lugs will equal to a full turn and a half when all six lugs have been adjusted. So very small amounts is usually the norm for me when fine tuning a head. Sometimes you won't even see the rod turn, but only feel it and hear it.

No I don't mean tapping the shells, I'll let John Good do that, lol. What I mean is tap the head of the drum in the center and listen for the shell and head combination to come alive as you very slowly tension the head. When you hear this stop the coarse tuning and now get the head in tune with itself because finely adjusting the rest of the rods is all it may need. Certain types of wood and shell thicknesses will affect the width of this sweet spot in each drum.

When I was first learning how to play drums years and years ago, my dad would have me tune his kit before every show. He taught me this and I believe he thought this would be a good indication to him that I was really serious about learning how to play. The reason I did this was because back in the days he used "calf skin" heads and calf skin could stretch much more readily under tension than modern Mylar heads. So after the shows each night he would take each drum down to just finger tightness to save the heads.He was a stickler for the way his old Ludwigs sounded and looked, lol.

Have any other question that I can try to help you with, just ask. Remember, slowly and evenly.
Dennis
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com