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  #41  
Old 05-27-2011, 01:15 AM
mediocrefunkybeat
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Default Re: Dave Grohl on "Wasting Light"

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Originally Posted by Pollyanna View Post
Yes. That total flatline approach.

People often complain that TV ads are louder than the programs, yet volume limits mean ads are not allowed to be louder than the program's peak volume. While a movie may hit the peaks 5% of the time the ads will be at the peak almost all the time, so it seems louder. It appears that the commercial domain operates on a similar principle as ads.

Eddie, could you define "warbly" in this context? "I'm not sure of the quality of the clip but it seems to sound pretty warbly to me" ... uneven??

Disclaimer: this post is for all readers except Itemma74 :-P
There was a campaign in America to change the law so that adverts could be no louder than the average loudness of the program. No idea if it went through or not.
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  #42  
Old 05-27-2011, 01:25 AM
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Pocket-full-of-gold Pocket-full-of-gold is offline
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Default Re: Dave Grohl on "Wasting Light"

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People often complain that TV ads are louder than the programs, yet volume limits mean ads are not allowed to be louder than the program's peak volume. While a movie may hit the peaks 5% of the time the ads will be at the peak almost all the time, so it seems louder.
Is that how it rolls? They are indeed louder....and I've always rolled my eyes when they've come out and disputed it. Didn't realise the "peak volume limit" disclaimer though.

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Originally Posted by mediocrefunkybeat View Post
There was a campaign in America to change the law so that adverts could be no louder than the average loudness of the program. No idea if it went through or not.
I wish someone would campaign here. I'll sign up.

NOTE: this post is for everyone except Polly and MFB.
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  #43  
Old 05-27-2011, 01:38 AM
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Default Re: Dave Grohl on "Wasting Light"

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Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold View Post
Is that how it rolls? They are indeed louder....and I've always rolled my eyes when they've come out and disputed it. Didn't realise the "peak volume limit" disclaimer though.

NOTE: this post is for everyone except Polly and MFB.
Not responding directly to this post (in deference to PFPG's wishes) but a general observation. The ads are the same volume all the time as the explosion that Arnie somehow managed to survive but much louder than the conversations he has with Sarah Connor.

So you turn your TV up so you know what they're mumbling and then when the ads come on you effectively have 5 straight minutes of explosions.

It's the same deal on the radio airwaves. You have more impact if you're just under redline all the time ... spots where the dynamic goes down will be lost to the listener in what is effectively a no holds barred battle of memes.
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  #44  
Old 05-27-2011, 01:41 AM
mediocrefunkybeat
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Default Re: Dave Grohl on "Wasting Light"

This post isn't for anybody.
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  #45  
Old 05-27-2011, 01:50 AM
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Default Re: Dave Grohl on "Wasting Light"

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This post isn't for anybody.
In which case, I won't respond.
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  #46  
Old 05-27-2011, 01:51 AM
mediocrefunkybeat
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Default Re: Dave Grohl on "Wasting Light"

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In which case, I won't respond.
Was that aimed at me?
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  #47  
Old 05-27-2011, 01:54 AM
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Default Re: Dave Grohl on "Wasting Light"

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Was that aimed at me?
You'll never know ...
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  #48  
Old 05-27-2011, 01:54 AM
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Default Re: Dave Grohl on "Wasting Light"

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Was that aimed at me?
Couldn't have been....no one's talking to you remember?...'DOH
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  #49  
Old 05-27-2011, 01:57 AM
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Default Re: Dave Grohl on "Wasting Light"

Ok!

So, I actually like quite the songs on the album. It's good, really good. I'm pleasantly surprised because the Foo Fighters have never done it for me. I'm impressed and it's also risky because it's making some rather alienating musical choices - in a good way. Shame about the mastering; they just went too far with the tape compression.
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  #50  
Old 05-27-2011, 11:27 PM
ltemma74 ltemma74 is offline
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Default Re: Dave Grohl on "Wasting Light"

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Originally Posted by mediocrefunkybeat View Post
Nice. What's the deal? Anything specific? It's not like I've dealt with you before here unless you're a previously banned member. Classy.

I know attorneys aren't known for their politeness, but man...
The deal? You are talking about production in general and the production of this album in particular without knowing what you're talking about. You entered the discussion and started speaking with authority before ever having listened to the record. You then stated that Dave Grohl chose the wrong producer in Butch Vig (plus Alan Moulder) and should have instead chosen Steve Albini to do this album right. You then stated that Grohl should have mastered it differently because it doesn't suit what you think his garage aesthetic should be. You then incorrectly stated that it's too loud sounding because there is digital brickwall compression/clipping. Not surprisingly, way later on in this thread you confess that the Foo Fighters have never done it for you.

Now you are attributing what you and other people are hearing to tape compression. Not true. Tape compression is a small element of what you're hearing. There were many other forms of compression used at various points in the production process of this record. The greatest offender in terms of loudness and volume is multiple stages of outboard analog compression, not tape compression. Tape compression alone won't get you anywhere near the loudness you are hearing on this record. Not in a million years.

Your opinions about production are not based in actual knowledge or fact. Your desire to bolster your opinions through faux knowledge is not helping this community learn about production in general or the production of this album in particular. And frankly, I found it offensive that you quoted my first post in this forum and then dismissed the information I provided by repeating, yet again, that you think the album is still too loud. Really? Do you? Congratulations to you. What does that have to do with the fact that the album was mastered in analog and not digital like you represented? Nothing.

If you don't like the compression and loudness of this album as you hear it streaming on the internet (and I perfectly understand why you wouldn't...who could?), try buying the vinyl. It's not as bad. It's still too loud but not as bad. And, for the record, many knowledgeable people feel that Radiohead albums, starting with OK Computer, are way too loud. Big deal. That doesn't give me the right to jump into some discussion about TKOL production and start talking out of my ass about it.

I won't sit idly by and watch when people spread misinformation under the auspices of knowledge and authority. If that makes me unclassy and impolite, I am perfectly comfortable with that.
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  #51  
Old 05-27-2011, 11:44 PM
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Default Re: Dave Grohl on "Wasting Light"

I'm going for the hijack here to say that I can't stand Steve Albini's idea of the idea live drum sound. Call me a sell-out, but I'll take Butch Vig any day; at least he's a drummer who appreciates getting good drum sounds - not just a bunch of room mics scattered around the room to pick up the kit from every angle but none closer than 6 feet to the actual kit.

You couldn't pay me to have Albini trash my drum sound. He should have stuck to the drum machine that made him famous to begin with (Big Black).
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  #52  
Old 05-28-2011, 03:48 AM
mediocrefunkybeat
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Default Re: Dave Grohl on "Wasting Light"

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Originally Posted by ltemma74 View Post
The deal? You are talking about production in general and the production of this album in particular without knowing what you're talking about. You entered the discussion and started speaking with authority before ever having listened to the record. You then stated that Dave Grohl chose the wrong producer in Butch Vig (plus Alan Moulder) and should have instead chosen Steve Albini to do this album right. You then stated that Grohl should have mastered it differently because it doesn't suit what you think his garage aesthetic should be. You then incorrectly stated that it's too loud sounding because there is digital brickwall compression/clipping. Not surprisingly, way later on in this thread you confess that the Foo Fighters have never done it for you.

Now you are attributing what you and other people are hearing to tape compression. Not true. Tape compression is a small element of what you're hearing. There were many other forms of compression used at various points in the production process of this record. The greatest offender in terms of loudness and volume is multiple stages of outboard analog compression, not tape compression. Tape compression alone won't get you anywhere near the loudness you are hearing on this record. Not in a million years.

Your opinions about production are not based in actual knowledge or fact. Your desire to bolster your opinions through faux knowledge is not helping this community learn about production in general or the production of this album in particular. And frankly, I found it offensive that you quoted my first post in this forum and then dismissed the information I provided by repeating, yet again, that you think the album is still too loud. Really? Do you? Congratulations to you. What does that have to do with the fact that the album was mastered in analog and not digital like you represented? Nothing.

If you don't like the compression and loudness of this album as you hear it streaming on the internet (and I perfectly understand why you wouldn't...who could?), try buying the vinyl. It's not as bad. It's still too loud but not as bad. And, for the record, many knowledgeable people feel that Radiohead albums, starting with OK Computer, are way too loud. Big deal. That doesn't give me the right to jump into some discussion about TKOL production and start talking out of my ass about it.

I won't sit idly by and watch when people spread misinformation under the auspices of knowledge and authority. If that makes me unclassy and impolite, I am perfectly comfortable with that.
So I've spent three years doing a degree in just this? Right. So, having been doing audio work since I was fourteen means I have no experience? Fine. So I master my own work? Ok - the fact that I spend every day working with just this means nothing? Ok. So you work as an attorney? Fine, but that doesn't give you the right to be this rude with anyone, especially somebody who has a track record on this forum of knowing what they're talking about.

If you have a problem with my opinion that this album is too loud, that's fine. But I suggest that you buy a decent pair of headphones and use your ears. This album is too loud. It clips - a lot. I have an issue with that. If you want to praise the Foo's for everything they do, that's fine - but when I've seen you speak with any of your own experience of the subject and suggest your own reasons as to why this is too loud (as you yourself have said) then I might be willing to discuss this with you in greater detail.

I use outboard compressors regularly - I know what outboard compression sounds like. Sure, tape compression won't get you all the way here, but the album has been through an A/D process that has negatively affected the sound. I said that this album may have been digitally mastered - it sure as Hell sounds like it - if it hasn't, that's fine, but I was offering possibilities to why the original poster thought it might be the way he is hearing. The stream I listen to (which isn't available in the US, by the way) is a high-quality .ogg format. That gives me enough to know that it's too loud - whether or not it's been mastered digitally or in analogue. At some point, this has been through an A/D conversion and it doesn't matter how good it sounds in analogue, if the analogue mix is too loud, then it'll be too loud for digital and the fact that it was mixed in the analogue realm doesn't change that. You know full well that vinyl and digital formats have to be mastered separately because of issues with logarithmic bass changes in vinyl. There are at least two different masters of this album. The vinyl master probably is fine, but it's not the same master we're hearing here.

Last edited by mediocrefunkybeat; 05-28-2011 at 04:12 AM.
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  #53  
Old 05-28-2011, 08:20 AM
ltemma74 ltemma74 is offline
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Default Re: Dave Grohl on "Wasting Light"

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Originally Posted by mediocrefunkybeat View Post
So I've spent three years doing a degree in just this? Right. So, having been doing audio work since I was fourteen means I have no experience? Fine. So I master my own work? Ok - the fact that I spend every day working with just this means nothing? Ok. So you work as an attorney? Fine, but that doesn't give you the right to be this rude with anyone, especially somebody who has a track record on this forum of knowing what they're talking about.

If you have a problem with my opinion that this album is too loud, that's fine. But I suggest that you buy a decent pair of headphones and use your ears. This album is too loud. It clips - a lot. I have an issue with that. If you want to praise the Foo's for everything they do, that's fine - but when I've seen you speak with any of your own experience of the subject and suggest your own reasons as to why this is too loud (as you yourself have said) then I might be willing to discuss this with you in greater detail.

I use outboard compressors regularly - I know what outboard compression sounds like. Sure, tape compression won't get you all the way here, but the album has been through an A/D process that has negatively affected the sound. I said that this album may have been digitally mastered - it sure as Hell sounds like it - if it hasn't, that's fine, but I was offering possibilities to why the original poster thought it might be the way he is hearing. The stream I listen to (which isn't available in the US, by the way) is a high-quality .ogg format. That gives me enough to know that it's too loud - whether or not it's been mastered digitally or in analogue. At some point, this has been through an A/D conversion and it doesn't matter how good it sounds in analogue, if the analogue mix is too loud, then it'll be too loud for digital and the fact that it was mixed in the analogue realm doesn't change that. You know full well that vinyl and digital formats have to be mastered separately because of issues with logarithmic bass changes in vinyl. There are at least two different masters of this album. The vinyl master probably is fine, but it's not the same master we're hearing here.
I registered on this forum specifically to contribute information to this thread. The discussion had turned to the mastering of wasting light. I happen to know quite a bit about that. So I registered and identified the mastering house and process used. I didn't quote you or refer to you or anything. I just shared relevant factual information. You then discounted my contribution to the discussion by quoting me and saying "It still clips my digital system. Too loud." That was rude and unwelcoming to me.

If we were in a court of law, my lawyer would point his finger toward you and say "ladies and gentlemen of the jury, mediocrefunkybeat was rude first. Mediocrefunkybeat's motive was to protect his online reputation in this forum because ltemma74 shared information that contradicted mediocrefunkybeat's speculation that the album was digitally mastered." And for that observation, my lawyer would be handsomely paid.

My personal career has no impact on the production of this record so I didn't bother mentioning that I am an attorney. But you seem to think it matters so you went ahead and researched me and "outed" me as an evil lawyer. Well done! Perhaps you should consider a backup career as a private investigator -- you know, just in case the music thing doesn't work out. It doesn't pay very well but you can wear a suit and be mean to people just like a lawyer.

As for me, well I'm just a jerk lawyer who talks about how rich he is and couldn't possibly know anything about music or have inside information regarding the production of this record. I will quit while I'm ahead and share my knowledge elsewhere. Enjoy your sandbox where you wear your cape and pretend to be the king.
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  #54  
Old 05-28-2011, 11:30 AM
mediocrefunkybeat
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Default Re: Dave Grohl on "Wasting Light"

I'm no king, but if you feel like you can be a Canute, enjoy.

I wasn't purposely being rude, but I guess you clearly have a thin skin. That's not my problem. Have fun in your ivory tower.
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