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  #1  
Old 05-10-2011, 06:18 AM
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Default Hardware: whats all the fuss?

Why do many people make a big deal about what hardware to buy? IMO it has no effect on the appearence of the setup (with the exception on lugs, hoops, strainers, etc.). But things like stands, legs, spurs: I don't see the differences. If it holds up the drum and doesn't break, it's fine with me, whether its a DW5000 or a sound percussion.
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Old 05-10-2011, 06:44 AM
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Default Re: Hardware: whats all the fuss?

For the most part, I get your point. But a word to the wise......not all hardware is created equal. Years ago I was stupid enough to buy a Dixon seat and two stands. Truely feeble. Who knows if they've improved or not....I'd never bother looking in their direction again.
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Old 05-10-2011, 07:48 AM
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Default Re: Hardware: whats all the fuss?

Swimming the English Channel covered in goose fat to conserve warmth will get you from England to France, but so does standing on the deck of a ferry with a beer in your hand. Either way you end up in France, but one process might be a bit more enjoyable than the other.
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Old 05-10-2011, 10:15 AM
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Default Re: Hardware: whats all the fuss?

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Originally Posted by daredrummer View Post
But things like stands, legs, spurs: I don't see the differences. If it holds up the drum and doesn't break, it's fine with me, whether its a DW5000 or a sound percussion.
Quality really isn't an issue, until you start gigging ... setting up and tearing down ... and then ... you learn to appreciate that DW ... or Yamaha hardware (in my case) ... will outlast "budget" brands like Sound Percussion.
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Old 05-10-2011, 10:20 AM
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Default Re: Hardware: whats all the fuss?

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Originally Posted by harryconway View Post
Quality really isn't an issue, until you start gigging ... setting up and tearing down ... and then ... you learn to appreciate that DW ... or Yamaha hardware (in my case) ... will outlast "budget" brands like Sound Percussion.
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Old 05-10-2011, 10:21 AM
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Default Re: Hardware: whats all the fuss?

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Originally Posted by harryconway View Post
Quality really isn't an issue, until you start gigging ... setting up and tearing down ... and then ... you learn to appreciate that DW ... or Yamaha hardware (in my case) ... will outlast "budget" brands like Sound Percussion.
Can't agree more with this. When I was out playing three or four nights a week, the last thing you need to be dealing with is hardware that strips out or fatigues easily. Although I admit this time around I'm giving the Sound Percussion straight cymbal stands a go, I do keep a couple of spare stands ready to go because they're so cheap to begin with. The rest of the important stuff (hat, snare, pedal, throne) is name-brand pro stuff. Although I admit that this is false economy when I know if I only bought what I needed in Yamaha, Pearl, Tama, or DW, I wouldn't have to worry about replacing anything at all.
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Old 05-10-2011, 03:28 PM
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Default Re: Hardware: whats all the fuss?

I partly agree that it "doesn't matter what stand to use, at least it works".
The top hardware is more RELIABLE, I can set it up and forget about it. If it's something cheap then there is still a small chance of it getting loose during your playing. Got to deal with it..
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Old 05-10-2011, 03:37 PM
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Default Re: Hardware: whats all the fuss?

Can't say I ever bought hardware based on the way it looks. However, I do have demands for my hardware:

- Flexibility.
All my cymbal stands feature hideaway booms, so they can be either a straight stand or a boom stand based on what I need.

- Reliability.
Goes without saying. I need to trust that I can set up my stands and they won't bend, buckle or break, and I also need to them to always be easy to set up and tear down.

- Stability.
This is a problem with my current cymbal stands, unfortunately. I don't know if it's a weight or a vibration issue, but they have a tendency to wander away from me when I strike the cymbal. This is annoying enough when they simply end up being further away, but downright dangerous when they suddenly decide to wander off the edge of the drum riser (and potentially hit someone in the head).

- Weight.
Seeing as I frequently have to lug my hardware bag up and down stairs, I'd like to keep the weight as light as I can. However, this is much less important than any of my previous points. Stability first, weight saving second.
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Old 05-10-2011, 08:54 PM
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Default Re: Hardware: whats all the fuss?

Quote:
Originally Posted by daredrummer View Post
IMO it has no effect on the appearence of the setup (with the exception on lugs, hoops, strainers, etc.). But things like stands, legs, spurs: I don't see the differences. If it holds up the drum and doesn't break, it's fine with me, whether its a DW5000 or a sound percussion.
I disagree completely.

1) I think hardware does have an influence in how the kit looks. eg: you wanna look vintage with heavy-duty DW9000 or Pearl high-end stands? mmm.. I don't think so. You'd better go with some thin, straight, flat based stands if you wanna achieve that look. On the other hand, a metal drummer with a 9 piece Starclassic with 12 Zildjian cymbals hangin onto $20 chinese stands??... Ugh... :/

2) The weakest part of any kit is hardware. Chances are you're stripping a lot of wingnuts before you can break a shell or even a cymbal.

3) There's nothing more unconfortable than failing hardware. Tom arms that fatigue so your toms end up resting on the bass drum in the middle of the song.. cymbals that get tilted every time you hit them.. worn snare baskets that make your snare wobble randomly with each hit..
And that's nothing. Try playing on a drum riser and a cymbal stand starts "walking" until it finally falls smashing your $300 cymbal on the guitar amp (or the guitarist's head..). :l

Anyway.. Hardware is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT. I don't say that you have to buy all DW9000 brutally over-priced pro stuff. But I certainly wouldn't reccomend the cheapest stands on the store. ;)

Cheers.
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Old 05-10-2011, 09:02 PM
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Default Re: Hardware: whats all the fuss?

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Originally Posted by diegobxr View Post
I disagree completely.

1) I think hardware does have an influence in how the kit looks. eg: you wanna look vintage with heavy-duty DW9000 or Pearl high-end stands? mmm.. I don't think so. You'd better go with some thin, straight, flat based stands if you wanna achieve that look. On the other hand, a metal drummer with a 9 piece Starclassic with 12 Zildjian cymbals hangin onto $20 chinese stands??... Ugh... :/

2) The weakest part of any kit is hardware. Chances are you're stripping a lot of wingnuts before you can break a shell or even a cymbal.

3) There's nothing more unconfortable than failing hardware. Tom arms that fatigue so your toms end up resting on the bass drum in the middle of the song.. cymbals that get tilted every time you hit them.. worn snare baskets that make your snare wobble randomly with each hit..
And that's nothing. Try playing on a drum riser and a cymbal stand starts "walking" until it finally falls smashing your $300 cymbal on the guitar amp (or the guitarist's head..). :l

Anyway.. Hardware is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT. I don't say that you have to buy all DW9000 brutally over-priced pro stuff. But I certainly wouldn't reccomend the cheapest stands on the store. ;)

Cheers.
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Old 05-10-2011, 09:05 PM
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Default Re: Hardware: whats all the fuss?

Boy, some of you guys really take the fun out of making nice looking kits. If I ever get to the point were I don't care how my stuff looks, I think I will just quit. Building it and looking at it is half the fun for me.
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Old 05-11-2011, 12:15 AM
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Default Re: Hardware: whats all the fuss?

I'm not just refering to stands. There are many other types of hardware I am refering to as well. A few examples...

Pearl Hi Hat Drop Clutch - $35 http://backstage.musiciansfriend.com...oductId=448844
Sound percussion hi hat drop clutch - $12 http://guitarsdeals.com/wp-content/u...010/12/662.jpg

Both have exactly the same function, only the pearl is about 3x as expensive. And I don't think it's easy to break a hi hat clutch...

DW Cymbal Boom Arm - $60 http://www.amazon.com/Drum-Workshop-.../dp/B0002F6ZDO

Sound Percussion Cymbal Boom Arm - $30 http://www.amazon.com/Sound-Percussi.../dp/B001P3YZES

They both look exactly alike, and the SP percussion is half the price. I imagine they would both last about the same length, however even if the DW lasted longer, if would half to last more than twice as long to be worth the money.

And those are just a couple of examples. All of you referred to stands, which is only one of the things I was talking about.
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Old 05-11-2011, 12:22 AM
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Default Re: Hardware: whats all the fuss?

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Originally Posted by daredrummer View Post
They both look exactly alike, and the SP percussion is half the price. I imagine they would both last about the same length, however even if the DW lasted longer, if would half to last more than twice as long to be worth the money.
Buy one of each. Put 'em out to the road test - at least 2 gigs a week for a minimum of 5 years - and report back to us with your findings.
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Old 05-11-2011, 01:18 AM
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Default Re: Hardware: whats all the fuss?

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Originally Posted by daredrummer View Post
I'm not just refering to stands. There are many other types of hardware I am refering to as well. A few examples...

Pearl Hi Hat Drop Clutch - $35 http://backstage.musiciansfriend.com...oductId=448844
Sound percussion hi hat drop clutch - $12 http://guitarsdeals.com/wp-content/u...010/12/662.jpg

Both have exactly the same function, only the pearl is about 3x as expensive. And I don't think it's easy to break a hi hat clutch...
Actually, you can break a regular hi-hat clutch. I've done it three times. The two wheels that you tighten against each other to tighten the top hi-hat on the clutch can strip-out. I've done it on DW, Gibraltar, and Tama clutches. It sucks when it happens so I always carry at least two spares, and DW spares are not cheap. Drop clutches might be a little different in design but when gigging, you must adhere to the old adage that whatever can break, will break when you don't expect it too!
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Old 05-11-2011, 01:38 AM
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Default Re: Hardware: whats all the fuss?

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Originally Posted by daredrummer View Post
I'm not just refering to stands. There are many other types of hardware I am refering to as well. A few examples...

Pearl Hi Hat Drop Clutch - $35 http://backstage.musiciansfriend.com...oductId=448844
Sound percussion hi hat drop clutch - $12 http://guitarsdeals.com/wp-content/u...010/12/662.jpg

Both have exactly the same function, only the pearl is about 3x as expensive. And I don't think it's easy to break a hi hat clutch...

DW Cymbal Boom Arm - $60 http://www.amazon.com/Drum-Workshop-.../dp/B0002F6ZDO

Sound Percussion Cymbal Boom Arm - $30 http://www.amazon.com/Sound-Percussi.../dp/B001P3YZES

They both look exactly alike, and the SP percussion is half the price. I imagine they would both last about the same length, however even if the DW lasted longer, if would half to last more than twice as long to be worth the money.

And those are just a couple of examples. All of you referred to stands, which is only one of the things I was talking about.
Well I know for sure you are not getting the same cymbal top adjuster with the two cymbal arms. They are the biggest reason I buy the DW ones. It is too bad that DW probably comes up with the design, and Sound Percussion just steels the original, cheapens it a bit, and sells it for less. I guess some of us have to pay for the R and D.
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Old 05-11-2011, 02:08 AM
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Default Re: Hardware: whats all the fuss?

I don't like having to buy stuff more than once. I'd rather buy the more expensive one and have it work well and last longer rather than buy something cheaper that's going to fight me all the time and have to be something I'll eventually replace.

Also I think the hardware a drum company comes up with to compliment their drums says volumes about their overall attention to detail and overall quality.
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Old 05-11-2011, 02:13 AM
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Default Re: Hardware: whats all the fuss?

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Originally Posted by sticks4drums View Post
Boy, some of you guys really take the fun out of making nice looking kits. If I ever get to the point were I don't care how my stuff looks, I think I will just quit. Building it and looking at it is half the fun for me.
When you go to the grocery store, you see all grades of fashion, from the person who wears sweats and a ripped-up and stained t-shirt, to the person who has apparently just come from an important, upscale job interview. Same with drum kits. Some people prefer function over looks, and some people prefer looks over function. Most of us are *somewhere* in the middle, slightly tilted one way or the other...
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Old 05-11-2011, 02:23 AM
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Default Re: Hardware: whats all the fuss?

I prefer looks and function. :) I can have both can't I. :)
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Old 05-11-2011, 02:36 AM
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Default Re: Hardware: whats all the fuss?

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Originally Posted by harryconway View Post
Quality really isn't an issue, until you start gigging ... setting up and tearing down ... and then ... you learn to appreciate that DW ... or Yamaha hardware (in my case) ... will outlast "budget" brands like Sound Percussion.
My Sound Percussion stands are still going strong after years of gigging. They seem rather indestructible. (although the ones I have are different than the current production model).

My Pearl cymbals stands, no so much. The gear-less tilters have given out, and another Pearl stand the wing-nut to hold the middle section of the boom extender is shot, even though I've replaced the nut and bolt, it still won't hold anymore. Although I have Pearl Hi-stand that is over 20 years old and it's still good.
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Old 05-11-2011, 02:39 AM
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Default Re: Hardware: whats all the fuss?

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Originally Posted by caddywumpus View Post
When you go to the grocery store, you see all grades of fashion, from the person who wears sweats and a ripped-up and stained t-shirt, to the person who has apparently just come from an important, upscale job interview. Same with drum kits. Some people prefer function over looks, and some people prefer looks over function. Most of us are *somewhere* in the middle, slightly tilted one way or the other...
I love your setup Caddy. It's clean and functional. With your grocery store analogy I would compare it to a beautiful older woman at the store in jeans and a t-shirt and she looks just fine in that.

Now I've been meaning to ask you and I suppose this is as appropriate a time as any, what brand is that stand you've used to hold your ride? It's defiantly a cheaper solution than getting a separate stand for your kit.

Also, in defense of the cheapie SP stands, I've played many gigs with my last band using the bassist's hardware which was all SP stands. They held up just fine as straight stands. I think unless you're in a touring band and your hardware gets a lot of abuse then all that over engineered stuff is overkill.

Don't get me wrong, if I had the spare coin I'd love a nice set of DW hardware but I could think of better ways to spend my gear money ATM.
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Old 05-11-2011, 05:53 AM
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Default Re: Hardware: whats all the fuss?

Ok so everyone pretty much covered it already but I'll reiterate, quality does matter to an extent. Just from personal experience, it really sucks when you are setting up for a gig and a cymbal stand breaks and you have to decide which cymbal you are gonna go without, or you're in the middle of a song and suddenly your crash has moved out of reach of your arm, or your hi hats aren't holding closed. That's not to say that more expensive is always better, because there are some stands that I think are extremely overpriced. But if you can afford something you know is stronger, more reliable, and will last longer why not get it? Those cheap stands are great, but they do break I've got a big pile in my studio if you don't believe me.
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Old 05-11-2011, 06:04 AM
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I love your setup Caddy. It's clean and functional. With your grocery store analogy I would compare it to a beautiful older woman at the store in jeans and a t-shirt and she looks just fine in that.
Yowza!

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Now I've been meaning to ask you and I suppose this is as appropriate a time as any, what brand is that stand you've used to hold your ride? It's defiantly a cheaper solution than getting a separate stand for your kit.
The cymbal stand is a Yamaha 600 series, and the clamp holding the ride is a Gibraltar splash boom arm. My idea was to get all of my hardware to fit compactly in a single, small case, and also be light to carry. I chose the suitcase, and didn't stop until I found a solution that worked. Since only two cymbal stands could fit in there, splash boom arms were my only real option, and low-and-behold, they've held up after all of these years of setting up, playing, tearing down.

Cheaper, yes, but more compact and lighter, too! I love it when people argue that you *need* beefy, double-braced stands in order to hold toms and multiple cymbals. It makes me laugh a little. It has the same amount of credibility as my 5-year-old son telling me all about being a secret agent...
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Old 05-11-2011, 07:34 AM
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Default Re: Hardware: whats all the fuss?

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Originally Posted by daredrummer View Post

They both look exactly alike, and the SP percussion is half the price. I imagine they would both last about the same length, however even if the DW lasted longer, if would half to last more than twice as long to be worth the money.
Longevity isn't the only issue though... The cheap boom arm might have a bad tilter system, meaning it has a tendency to suddenly give out during a gig, dropping your heavy ride cymbal straight onto your kick drum. There are more aspects to quality than how long it lasts before breaking.
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Old 05-11-2011, 07:42 AM
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Default Re: Hardware: whats all the fuss?

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Originally Posted by diegobxr View Post
1) smashing your $300 cymbal on the guitar amp (or the guitarist's head..). :l
In general, I'd call that a worthwhile investment!

Ok, seriously for a moment. The engineer in me can spot quality problems a mile away, but sometimes those qualty problems are hidden from view, especially in the case of castings. "Not all that glitters is gold" I think is the saying, & I've had a few issues with DW stuff. I had a tilter casting break, throne retention screw strip out, & memory locks on the throne break in half, twice! Never an issue with my 5000 pedal though. Had issues with my son's Pearl stuff too, (but my DRC rack's holding up to road punishment really well) but never, repeat never, had a single issue with Yamaha hardware. Their grade of material & forging/casting quality is in a different league to everyone else.
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Old 05-11-2011, 11:25 PM
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Default Re: Hardware: whats all the fuss?

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In general, I'd call that a worthwhile investment!

Ok, seriously for a moment. The engineer in me can spot quality problems a mile away, but sometimes those qualty problems are hidden from view, especially in the case of castings. "Not all that glitters is gold" I think is the saying, & I've had a few issues with DW stuff. I had a tilter casting break, throne retention screw strip out, & memory locks on the throne break in half, twice! Never an issue with my 5000 pedal though. Had issues with my son's Pearl stuff too, (but my DRC rack's holding up to road punishment really well) but never, repeat never, had a single issue with Yamaha hardware. Their grade of material & forging/casting quality is in a different league to everyone else.
Same here. I've used some DW, PDP, Gibralter, Tama (no problems with Tama, either), but as far as what I actually own, aside from a single cowbell holder it's all Yamaha.

Part of this description from Yamaha's website shows some insight as to why:
Quote:
Yamaha's innovative hardware is legendary for reliability, durability, and versatility. Utilizing manufacturing processes perfected in the Yamaha motorcycle factory, Yamaha system drum hardware is the most requested hardware in the industry.
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Old 05-12-2011, 01:27 PM
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Default Re: Hardware: whats all the fuss?

Not all hardware companies use the same measurements. Drum companies try to create hardware specifically for their products so you'll need to purchase everything from them.
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Old 05-12-2011, 01:29 PM
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Default Re: Hardware: whats all the fuss?

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Not all hardware companies use the same measurements. Drum companies try to create hardware specifically for their products so you'll need to purchase everything from them.
*cough*Pearl*cough*
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Old 05-12-2011, 01:36 PM
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Default Re: Hardware: whats all the fuss?

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*cough*Pearl*cough*
.
Them in particular. When I was building my Gibraltar rack setup, they have tom arms called "Pearl-style". They had to create special arms specifically for Pearl drums. Everything else fit on a 10.5mm L-rod or Hex-rod.
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