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  #1  
Old 04-21-2011, 12:28 PM
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Default Really Defined Ghost Notes?

Hello DW
I'm really influenced by John Otto from Limp Bizkit, I love the way he plays with all the ghost notes and off time stuff, and My snare head just isnt getting me that defined ghost note sound.

I know that its not just down to the head but I dont want to replicate his snare sound I just want a head thats dry and will give me those nice ghost notes. I;ve been researching heads a lot and still have no idea what I'd need to get to achieve that sound, at the moment I'm using a Coated Emporer over the stock Ambassador and unless I hit the head dead center I get a few overtones which I really dont like! so i was looking at heads that had a sound control ring around the outer edge but I have no idea if they will help me sort it out?

Can anyone recommend some heads? I don't mind who makes them, wether it be Remo, Evans etc. etc. but I will be ordering today

If it makes any difference the snare is Mapex Black Widow 14" x 5" Maple snare

Thanks!
TM
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Old 04-21-2011, 12:37 PM
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Default Re: Really Defined Ghost Notes?

The head you play shouldn't make too much of a difference; how's your technique?


Stick with the tried and tested coated ambassador, dampen with o-ring/gel/tape as needed, tune as required and get working on your dynamic control.
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  #3  
Old 04-21-2011, 12:57 PM
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Default Re: Really Defined Ghost Notes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonescrusher View Post
The head you play shouldn't make too much of a difference; how's your technique?


Stick with the tried and tested coated ambassador, dampen with o-ring/gel/tape as needed, tune as required and get working on your dynamic control.
I tried an ambassador, and it rings too much for me even with moon gel admittedley I do need to work on my left hand, but I'm getting there, even so the drum isn't the sound I want its too ringy unless hit directly in the center.

TM
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Old 04-21-2011, 01:19 PM
Softwaremaker Softwaremaker is offline
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Default Re: Really Defined Ghost Notes?

Have you tried Evans ST/HD Dry ? BUT I agree with the rest - the technique is more important.
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Old 04-21-2011, 01:31 PM
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Default Re: Really Defined Ghost Notes?

I will check ou the evans geads now, thanks for the replies
TM
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Old 04-21-2011, 01:34 PM
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Default Re: Really Defined Ghost Notes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonescrusher View Post
and get working on your dynamic control.
Tune and muffle however you feel necessary in order to get the sound you seek. But if you do nothing else.......then at least do this. ^^^^
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Old 04-21-2011, 01:45 PM
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Default Re: Really Defined Ghost Notes?

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Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold View Post
Tune and muffle however you feel necessary in order to get the sound you seek. But if you do nothing else.......then at least do this. ^^^^
again thanks for the reply, im going to try tuning up, and adding more muffling.

I'm not new to ghost notes but I will re check my technique and see if that improves the sound I get.

TM
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Old 04-21-2011, 02:02 PM
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Default Re: Really Defined Ghost Notes?

An effective way to practice ghost notes is to practice hitting the head from no more than 1" height. Drop the tip of the stick lightly onto the head. Practice doing this both before and after an accent.

A rule of thumb is to keep the dynamic of the ghosted note below the hi hat. One can play a single stroke roll between the two while focusing on dynamics.

In my experience head choice, stick, drum etc, play no role in effective ghosted notes. Technical ability/stick control is paramount.

It is not the head's fault if a ghost note is loud. The head is passive. It is the player. Always!
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Old 04-21-2011, 02:27 PM
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Default Re: Really Defined Ghost Notes?

I think this thread has been misinterperated, what I meant was I love the dry sound of John Otto's ghost notes where as with the way my drum sounds they sound to low and ringy, I will admit my technique isnt all that great, but I know what I'm doing with them, I'm just looking for that dry crisp sound :)

TM
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Old 04-21-2011, 02:36 PM
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Default Re: Really Defined Ghost Notes?

A recording with all its effects is not a good indication of how a drummer sounded live in the room. Usually the sound is so different as to be unrecognisable.

Just focus on the technique.
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Old 04-21-2011, 02:40 PM
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Default Re: Really Defined Ghost Notes?

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Originally Posted by wy yung View Post
A recording with all its effects is not a good indication of how a drummer sounded live in the room. Usually the sound is so different as to be unrecognisable.

Just focus on the technique.
I know, Like I sadi I wasnt looking to replicate his sound, I just want to dry out my drum a bit :)
I will definatley be focusing on the technique! I'm fascinated with ghost notes they fill the sound so nicely.

Thanks for the help
TM
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Old 04-21-2011, 02:42 PM
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Default Re: Really Defined Ghost Notes?

Try the Evans ST dry and loosen your snares some.
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Old 04-21-2011, 02:46 PM
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Default Re: Really Defined Ghost Notes?

You can try dampening, from moon gel, O rings, a wallet opened and slapped on the drum, or you can get extreme and heavily tape a piece of foam to a 1/4 of the head. Even a piece of towel taped to the head can help, provided it is taped to the rim and aloud to rest on the head.

I advise you have fun experimenting. For me that would be a day's fun. :)
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Old 04-21-2011, 03:21 PM
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Default Re: Really Defined Ghost Notes?

you're probably tuning the reso head too tight, loosen it a bit, and especially loosen it around the snare beds so that your snares can react more.
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  #15  
Old 04-21-2011, 03:48 PM
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Default Re: Really Defined Ghost Notes?

I suggest you try experimenting with different tunings like tuning your reso higher, lower, or at the same tension as your batter. Also try different snare wire tensions and different amounts of muffling and if all else fails then i suggest a pre muffled snare head like Evan's hd dry, st dry, genera dry, if you think the dry vents will dry out to much of the ringing you can get the heads without the vents also. Also check out remo's powerstroke series like the ps3 or the psx. You should also check your reso head, check that it is well seated, not damaged, evenly tensioned, and that it's not too old. If the reso is damaged or has been there too long replace it also, i think it's about $15 for the reso and if it has been under your snare for a long time then it could help you get a better sound.
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  #16  
Old 04-23-2011, 09:17 AM
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Default Re: Really Defined Ghost Notes?

Couple o'things...

Ghost notes shouldn't be very ringy, even on a very resonant snare drum, and particularly from the audience's perspective. Make sure you're not being overly analytical.

Also, don't compare your snare's acoustic sound with your noggin 2 feet from it, to a major-label studio recording. Two entirely different sonic worlds you're dealing with. That snare probably had an expensive mic on the top AND bottom heads, running through expensive pre-amps, then to a $500,000 console, with all kinds of EQing, compression (that's probably responsible for your perception of ghost notes being "loud") and other effects, then more mixing & mastering tricks/techniques before the sound on the CD has hit your ears. You'll drive yourself crazy trying to replicate that sound acoustically, so my advice- don't.

Edit- I didn't see Wy's post above and your reply... still, re: "just want to dry out my drum a bit"- you still don't want to try & make your snare's acoustic sound mimic that of a studio recording. Again, different worlds. Only about half the after-ring of a drum that you hear when you play it by yourself will be noticed by you when you're playing with guitars/bass/keys/vocals all going on, and about half of THAT will reach your audience. Good rule of thumb- if your drums sound pretty overly-ringy, to the point of obnoxiousness, when playing alone, then they probably sound just right within the band context. If they sound "just right", i.e. very close to what you hear on a CD, when you're alone, they'll likely sound pretty lifeless and dull to the audience in the same band context.
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Old 05-08-2011, 11:13 PM
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Default Re: Really Defined Ghost Notes?

I know the exact drum sound you're talking about. John's snare sound is all about attack. You need a TIGHT tuned single ply batter. He also played one of those tree trunk 20 or 40 ply maple shells with the huge air vents all over it. That setup will give you those loud cutting ghost notes, but good luck playing soft music with that setup. I would suggest trying a dry single ply head tuned tightly. (*DO NOT go drilling your snare shell!)
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  #18  
Old 05-08-2011, 11:56 PM
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Default Re: Really Defined Ghost Notes?

he uses a wood snare? I didn't expect that, but in videos I've only ever clocked piccollo's etc. cheers for the info though! :D

TM
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Old 05-09-2011, 02:48 AM
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Default Re: Really Defined Ghost Notes?

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Originally Posted by TableMuncher View Post
he uses a wood snare? I didn't expect that, but in videos I've only ever clocked piccollo's etc. cheers for the info though! :D

TM
I'm pretty sure (at least around the time of significant other) that he used an OCDP vented snare with a super thick maple shell. If you go to OCDP's website, they talk about that sound and how the thick shells and huge vent holes make their snares extremely sensitive, dry, and LOUD. But it only works for loud heavy music with cracking snare sounds. I grew out of that ten years ago, but I still like the sound of those snares in the right context...sometimes.
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