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| General Discussion General discussion forum for all drum related topics. Use this forum to exchange ideas and information with your fellow drummers. |
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#281
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Just like with the Rock/Jazz idiom. You don't let your hair grow and buy a double pedal because you want to be an authentic jazz musician. You do it because you want to be an authentic Rock musician and that is - if your good at it - what you will get called for. Easy as that if you ask me. Certainly many hundrets of players are out there who could fit in any style or at least adapt to any style real fast (hell.... even I made it into a Reggae band once without and experience on that fiel beforehand and still get asked a lot of questions by some students on how to play that or that reggae beat) and the seven guys in these audition certainly would belong into this category, but when it comes to absolute authenticism you need a guy who loves the style music and breathes it in and out. You know.... I still believe that about 10000 drummers from Jamaica would outplay me in any Reggae band because these guys grow up listening to that music and drinking it up with their mothers milk. Not saying you couldn't learn it, but there is more to it than just the drumming. At least on the level we are talking here in this thread. |
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#282
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I thought Mangini's emotional reaction to getting the gig was awesome. I'm happy any time I see someone get something s/he worked really hard for and wants really badly. He poured his heart and soul into getting that gig, did everything right and his hard work and preparation paid off. As I said before, a lot of us could probably learn something from Mike's approach and apply it to our own lives. And I'm not just talking about drumming.
Congrats to Mike but also to the other fine drummers who auditioned. I don't really know much about Dream Theater but I was still blown away by all the drummers. |
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#283
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The interesting thing is that they did choose many of the uber players that are so criticized in drum forms, in feel v technique question. The BIG Four Lang, Mangini, Minnemann and Virgil. Here it was, a real forum for these guys to strut their stuff. And they were all phenomenal. And of course people complain. Does that surprise you? "Oh, I was left a little taken back by him saying this" all this pansy-assed shit. If you couldn't just sit back and enjoy this without getting critical I don't know what to say. I was glad that Aydee got into it. Not his music, but a real hoot, right Abe? This was a once in a lifetime event. You get to see these seven fine drummers vying for the spot.
People are always looking for some way to put down metal, some way to put down prog, some way to put down hip-hop. It's so easy to dismiss a genre of music. But you look at bands like DT and Spock's Beard with Neil Morse. These guys know their stuff. They are able to write in a myriad of hard rock, heavy metal or prog styles. They not only reference Dregs, but Zappa, Yes, ELP, Led Zep, Floyd, remember that one line, "let's do the Floyd number" as well as fusion bands like Mahavishnu, Dregs, Return to Forever, classic metal bands like Queensryche, Maiden, Metallica or Sabbath. They even have some U2 ish stuff. Doesn't everybody? Half these bands sound lie U2 these days. That's not to say they don't have their own style. But if you had been listening to a lot of Stockhausen, Pink Floyd may not have seen so unique. If you were listening to a lot of Chess, Led Zep wouldn't have seen so unique. Get my drift? It all comes from somewhere.
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Ken Marino Drum Teacher "It's not worth keeping score. You win some. You lose some, you let it go" |
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#284
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[quote=aydee;835962]
Taking some of these great players and putting em jump through hoops, curve balls and all, and televising it to the whole world wasn't classy. This is what auditions are LIKE to se if you can step up to the plate Mike Nailed it Virgil took a chance trying to modify the pattern, Marco and Mike and Pete seemed to be able to hanle it as well A friend of mine Shayne Gaalaas auditioned cattle call style for Steve Vai got through 3 songs did well and Steve called another song Shane had to think for a minute to remember the song .... Steve yells out NEXT....................... As for the worlds greatest drummers EVEN MIke would not say that with Vinnie in the room Tim
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God Bless Tim Waterson Axis Ambassador www.timwaterson.net http://timwaterson.blogspot.com/ |
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#285
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Mike Portnoy always was the first to praise his own heroes like the very Neil Peart. And he
is always the first to state that he's "no great drummer". I'm not quoting, but something in that regard. I don't think anybody in DT believe they invented something. Although they did invent their style as we hear it today, and they are as influental as their ancestors were to them. There are lots of prog metal bands nowadays that are borrowing half their ideas from DT. |
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#286
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#287
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Ditto!!! I don't really feel like one of the particularly well-spoken people, but thanks for the consent! :)
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#288
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Us average people have to stick together you know. :) I had to stop fighting with Matt and Mediocre, because they are too damn smart for me. :) I had to kiss and make up.
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#289
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I hope you guys weren't taken back by my brash remarks. I was just trying to be funny, and perhaps poke a little fun at what we do here on these forums. The old adage, you can please some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time comes in here. My attitude is that these guys are doing it, and they call their own shots. We all know the dedication and work it takes to make that happen. That in and of itself is worthy of respect.
__________________
Ken Marino Drum Teacher "It's not worth keeping score. You win some. You lose some, you let it go" |
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#290
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#291
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... |
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#292
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Jordan has done several projects with Rod Morgenstein, and a host of others. DT has toured with many other guys who could have done the gig. Also, who knows who else might have been asked, but just couldn't make it. For example, I heard a rumor Bobby Jarzombek was asked, but he just couldn't due to his touring commitments. |
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#293
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#294
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And the kicker is, the (current) DT keyboardist, Jordan Rudness, was in the Dregs for a short time. Several members of DT have also done side projects with Rod Morgenstein. |
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#295
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Say what you want about Dream Theatre, but they are all fantastically talented musicians. I am not a big fan, but I have two of their DVD's just to watch them all play.
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#296
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Watching the audition videos of - Thomas Lang - Virgil Donati - Marco Minemann - Derek Roddy...they played great and remarkably but Mangini fitted the shoes of Dream Theatre/Theater, besides his technique I think he slided his feel in, adding several contributing factors that the band considered it important.
Congratulations to all drummers involved! Good job!
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"Once a Drummer, always a Drummer". |
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#297
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a discussion, but I suppose they're busy with their own stuff and bands, especially Gavin. And Gavin is probably not too much the metal/rock drummer. |
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#298
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Ken Marino Drum Teacher "It's not worth keeping score. You win some. You lose some, you let it go" |
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#299
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as much as i admire the god-given talent these drummers have, their playing, and bands like DT, etc, leave me cold.
oh believe me, i'd love to kill a kit the way these guys do as far as technique goes. but as far as listening, i'd take a good ol' Al Green or Motown/Funk Brothers medley over any of these types of bands any day of the week. two totally different sides of the coin, but both equally talented in their own ways.
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Mapex Pro-M kit Paiste Cymbals Attack Heads Yamaha Stands and Pedals |
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#300
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Tom Coyne Drummer / Performer / Teacher / Author 45 Grave / The Last Dance PIT Class of 1989 |
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#301
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One of the 5 times I've seen Dream Theater perform was with The Dixie Dreggs, at the Rave in Milwaukee Wisconsin. As a drummer, the chance to see Mike Portnoy and Rod Morgenstein at the same concert is easily one of my greatest drum-related memories! It was full of awesome! :)
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#302
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I spent some time with Derek Roddy last year at the Drum Road Trip in Upstate New York. So I was super excited for him to see that he got called into audition...if for no other reason than it would be a great boon for his reputation and hopefully lead him to other great opportunities. I was rooting for him.
His post here bear out some of the philosophies we spoke about in NY...about the BUSINESS of drumming. Yes, Dream Theater is an amazing gig for a Prog/Metal player. But at what cost to the other aspects of ones life? I agree with Derrek that a cult band like DT isn't necessarily going to be the most lucrative move for some players. Why would a guy like Lang, who charges $800 a head for his drum camp and does well with his dvd's (and is a nicely paid hired gun) want to join a band and where he now has to take on the debt involved in being a member?? It had better be BIG $$ to take on the 'band member' role rather that 'the hired gun' role. I know lots of guys who go on tour, come home in debt and to a family who barely recognizes them. It happens... No one wants to end up like Richie Hayward...in his 60's and sick with no medical insurance. My point is...there were many more factors to consider for the 7 auditionees other than "when does the tour start'? From the looks of it, the DT guys have a stable small to medium size business going for them. By contrast, when Metallica hired Rob Trujillo, they gave him A MILLION DOLLARS UP FRONT. Now we are talking! I did enjoy the audition vids...and thought every drummer played to their strengths. All of them were phenomenal. I would have loved to hear what Virgil or Lang came up with at more length, or to hear a more extreme take that Derrek or Peter could add to DT. I am an old school Prog fan ...ELP, YES, FLOYD...but after watching this whole process I can see why the critics back then HATED prog. So pretensions and overly dramatic!! So it is no surprise that the DT have a lot of those same qualities. But they seem like nice guys to me. But Derrek did make me proud!! t
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Tom Coyne Drummer / Performer / Teacher / Author 45 Grave / The Last Dance PIT Class of 1989 |
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#303
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One question though...Why wasn't Terry Bozzio invited to audition? That would have be incredible to see, and probably made sense for that music. Although...he would have been in full 'interpretative" mode all along!
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Tom Coyne Drummer / Performer / Teacher / Author 45 Grave / The Last Dance PIT Class of 1989 |
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#304
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They would of had to bring in a thousand more toms for him, and then listen to him tinkle around on everything. :)
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#305
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I think that people who don't get prog or are overly critical of it do not understand the satire in it. Many of these guys wanted to be jazz players, and of course Bruford has spoke at length about his love of jazz, esp Max, Morello and Art. Emerson loved Oscar Peterson and Dave Brubeck. But this was the music of their time. Overly dramatic? It's English music. If anything the English know their dramatics. I can understand that people don't get the satire. I went to visit my folks the other day and joked about spending 3.99 to fill up. I said, "I could remember the good old days when I paid 3.83," which was what I paid the week before. They didn't get the humor, that someday, probably next week I'll wish I could have paid 3.99 a gallon. You can go through life explaining yourself; but that is no fun. As Peter said, it would be nice to see more. A dvd with the best audition takes of what these seven had to offer would be great. I'd buy it.
__________________
Ken Marino Drum Teacher "It's not worth keeping score. You win some. You lose some, you let it go" |
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#306
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Umm....not true. Most were in their 40's. Virgil is 52. Mangini is 48 himself.
As for Bozzio, I couldn't see it happening. At this point in his career, I doubt Bozzio's auditions for things, you hire him, or don't. And at age 60(!) he is quite a bit older than everyone else in DT. And while Bozzio is a very humble person as a player, he is a shrewed businessman. He would want a guaranteed contract, and stipulations to cover himself financially if Portnoy came back, and such. Plus he's not much of a fan of learning a back catalog. Just no way would he work out. And as alluded to by others, I can't see him making that level of commitment to the band at this point in his career. And on an odd note, everyone in DT is happily married, Bozzio is twice divorced. In the end, he'd still lose out to Mangini. But we could be here all day making a list of drummers who could have auditioned. |
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#307
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[quote=
And while Bozzio is a very humble person as a player, he is a shrewed businessman. He would want a guaranteed contract, and stipulations to cover himself financially if Portnoy came back, and such. Plus he's not much of a fan of learning a back catalog. .[/QUOTE] Ain't that the truth! Did you read the MD interview (or was it DRUM!) where Bozzio gave all the dirt on his past gigs? He ain't no fool!! He sure would want a buy out clause when Portney inevitably returns, plus %'s of merch and the rest. In that same article, he outlines a 'creative work environment" based on improv and jamming...rather than learning set parts that were pre-written by a composer or a past drummer.
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Tom Coyne Drummer / Performer / Teacher / Author 45 Grave / The Last Dance PIT Class of 1989 |
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#308
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Interesting collection of audition videos. I did think it odd that Lang and Minneman were not selected based on criticisms of bringing too much "interpretation" to the music. I see that as a good thing; but if the band members want more of a Portnoy clone, that is their decision to make.
Mangini was definitely impressive: I think he and Minneman expressed the most energy in their playing along with killer chops. Mangini also seemed like a really personable guy. As for Dream Theater in general, never really cared for them--that kind of prog rock always seemed to me to be a combination of pretension (like Rush on a really bad day) and Cheez Whiz. Don't get me wrong: all the players appear to have great chops, but most of the music leaves something to be really desired. Overboard technical displays can turn to boredom easily. |
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#309
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Portnoy put up a video on youtube of himself and his boy playing drums. I think he is going through a midlife crisis, and I think part of it has to do with what people have been talking about. Weckl said the same thing,. He said, "when I was young playing drums for 12 hours a day, that was all that mattered. Now all that matters is my daughter."
__________________
Ken Marino Drum Teacher "It's not worth keeping score. You win some. You lose some, you let it go" |
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#310
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I could see Bozzio coming in and doing a great album, but when it came time to tour, he'd lose interest in playing all the old stuff. And touring is the bands bread and butter. Quote:
As for Portnoy, between seeing him briefly at NAMM and the last few video interviews he's given, I've never seem him look happier. It seems being out of DT has felt liberating for him. He has admitted over the years that he is very OCD. And so in the band, he wasn't just the drummer. He co-produced all the albums, directed all the DVDs, wrote lyrics and music, and had this insane database of every song played at every gig in every city the band had ever played at, and he would use that to write a custom set list for every night of a tour. So it wasn't drumming that burnt him out, it was doing everything else. And I think it got the point that he just didn't know how to say, "someone else needs to handle this". So he just stopped altogether. But for the rest of band, Tom hit it earlier. They're not Metallica. 10 million world wide sales is nothing to sneeze at, but the band needs to tour to make an income. John Petrucci said it in the first video, they built a business, and they need to keep it going. |
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#312
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page or so before in this thread? Quote:
If anything, they tend to classical music I'd say. Jordan Rudess was at Julliard at age 9. DT clearly go for intriguing composition, not improvisation in the sense that jazz musicians work on and explore. |
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#313
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music" these days, meaning including music as DT plays, I suppose. Nor would he listen to it much, as it seems. So I think he wouldn't be interested at all. And I agree with the others, he's probably too old for the intensity DT will be carrying on writing, touring and traveling. |
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#314
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not enough "ostinatos" in DT music for Terry.
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Mapex Pro-M kit Paiste Cymbals Attack Heads Yamaha Stands and Pedals |
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#315
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BTW Wait 3 years Ian. :) Quote:
__________________
Ken Marino Drum Teacher "It's not worth keeping score. You win some. You lose some, you let it go" |
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#316
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#317
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#318
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Hitler should know, Italians make the best metal drummers. :)
__________________
Ken Marino Drum Teacher "It's not worth keeping score. You win some. You lose some, you let it go" |
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#319
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Norway/Sweden/Finland might disagree. :-P
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#320
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Not really funny if you understand what's being spoken...
Delta: I didn't think Mike gave the impression of a man in midlife crisis or so, but who knows... By the way, just to make sure, I meant classical music as in Beethoven etc, not as Rush or Yes :)! |
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