DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > Off Topic Lounge

Off Topic Lounge All Discussions Not Related To Drumming

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #41  
Old 03-16-2011, 06:59 AM
IDDrummer's Avatar
IDDrummer IDDrummer is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: I-Dee-Ho
Posts: 3,290
Default Re: Phil Rudd fined

Quote:
Originally Posted by daredrummer View Post
By the way hope I didn't offend anybody or anything, not my intention. Just voicing my opinion.
No, not at all. I think the whole conversation has remained totally civil.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 03-16-2011, 07:17 AM
IDDrummer's Avatar
IDDrummer IDDrummer is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: I-Dee-Ho
Posts: 3,290
Default Re: Phil Rudd fined

Quote:
Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
Does that include the laws that mandate the fitting of safety catches on cigarette lighters but regards the compulsory fitting of safety catches on guns as "unconstitutional"?
lol, I don't really know. I rank this under another type of law I'm not very fond of, which I refer to as the "protect us from ourselves because we're too stupid to operate things correctly and too irresponsible to keep them away from children" laws. Because some dimwit can't keep his lighter or gun away from kids or is too ignorant to know how to operate them, everyone is limited.

I think I should be free to buy a lighter or a gun without a safety catch if I desire.

The funny thing is, I'm actually quite a law abiding citizen. I don't smoke - anything! I'm generally well behaved. I just happen to think that many laws are unnecessarily restrictive. By nature, there is always going to be a struggle between individual freedom and the good of the community. I just tend to lean more toward the individual liberty side of the struggle.

Getting back to the original post, I know too many high-functioning people who smoke marijuana to believe it is the evil thing it's made out to be. People who have problems with drugs generally have problems, one aspect of which manifests as drug abuse.

I respect daredrummer's opinion, and I think it's better to CARE about stuff than to not give a crap. But my experience has lead to different beliefs.

I have to say, I love how respectful and open this forum is. Good discussion.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 03-16-2011, 07:19 AM
Algorithm's Avatar
Algorithm Algorithm is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 153
Default Re: Phil Rudd fined

The Iron Man 2 soundtrack ruined the movie.
__________________
Quote:
I'm all tuned in, I see all the programs, I save coupons from packets of tea.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 03-16-2011, 08:40 AM
BassDriver's Avatar
BassDriver BassDriver is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 726
Default Re: Phil Rudd fined

The whole fine and conviction thing is totally crap.

The law should have just left the fella alone.

Alcohol and cigarettes have killed more people...

...yet the law fusses about what you do in your spare time.

Ian...it seems you have an interest towards issues involving Australians...your location tag says you're in Venezuela...have you been to Australia or are you a traveller?
__________________
Check out some of my drumming on my youtube channel:http://www.youtube.com/user/Drumosity
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 03-16-2011, 10:52 AM
Pollyanna's Avatar
Pollyanna Pollyanna is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cyberspace, Sydney connection
Posts: 10,000
Default Re: Phil Rudd fined

Agree with PFOG, of course you have every right to hold your opinion, Dare. Just that - as you might have guessed - I exerted my right to vehemently disagree :) ... and said why.

ID, I agree. I'd like to see laws that treat people as adults. Who knows? Maybe we could even get used to taking responsibility for running our lives and grow up a bit?
__________________
.
Polly's rhythms
.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 03-16-2011, 12:06 PM
keep it simple's Avatar
keep it simple keep it simple is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Herefordshire, UK.
Posts: 16,398
Default Re: Phil Rudd fined

Just for interest.

USA figures for consumption at sometime over a 12 month period

Marijuana 25.77 million 10.3% of population.

The Netherlands figures for consumption at sometime over a 12 month period

Marijuana 5.4% of population.

Interesting that the country that operates an open supply policy (registered coffee shops, but still illegal drug status), takes it out of the hands of criminals, yet seeks to educate, has half the consumption in terms of percentage of population. Just in case you believe in the gateway theory, the Dutch have half the percentage users of coke too.
__________________
This message is brought to you courtesy of Thinly Veiled Productions inc.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 03-16-2011, 12:54 PM
Pollyanna's Avatar
Pollyanna Pollyanna is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cyberspace, Sydney connection
Posts: 10,000
Default Re: Phil Rudd fined

It's good to have some real life stats, Andy. Thing is, without prohibition, some people who wouldn't have smoked will, and some who would have smoked, wouldn't. But without hard figures you can't work out how many would be in each group. That clarifies the issue more than any, even given the different social situation in each country.

Thing is, the forbidden fruit is sweetest. It's common for kids given responsibility young to grow up to be responsible adults. It's also well known how many kids who are kept tightly controlled to go ape once the shackles come off.

I wish they'd give us the responsibility. Sure, there would be a spike at first while the taste of "forbidden fruit" is still lingering but after not too long the novelty would wear off and people will become a little more mature, less shallow and more responsible.

As with kids, it's a fine line between too much and too little discipline and control. Whoever has the power needs to be alert enough to provide steering controls if needed, not to run on rigid ideologies.

You can't run your life on ideology - things change too quickly and if you're not moving forward, you go backwards (hence 10% vs 5%) ... it's impossible to stay put for very long - not in drumming, either. Life just isn't like that.
__________________
.
Polly's rhythms
.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 03-16-2011, 05:39 PM
larryace's Avatar
larryace larryace is offline
"Uncle Larry"
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: In beautiful Bucks County, PA
Posts: 13,398
Default Re: Phil Rudd fined

I want to live in a country where the governments don't try and micromanage my life. My government breaks every law ever made everyday, and they expect ME to not break an unconstitutional law? I look on my government as my enemy. Sad but true. I hate to say that but more than anyone, they have the power to screw me royally, for life. They would like nothing better than to toss me in jail, ruin my life, and break my spirit for breaking the most unjust law ever penned. Meanwhile my government buys hard drugs, sells hard drugs, and then turns around and arrests those who use those drugs. It's all about them getting every penny you earned and sucking you dry. My government is not my friend, they are the ones I need to protect myself against. They are my enemys, disguised as my ally.

I don't break any MORAL laws, more than I can say for my government. I will break any law I feel is an unjust law, and not feel bad about it, as long as it is not morally wrong to break that law.

I will probably leave my country at some point and go to Sweden. I am too disgusted with America. It's all about greed. People are thought of as cattle. Look at how much wasn't done for New Orleans after the Katrina disaster. If that would have happened in Boston.....you get the picture.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 03-16-2011, 06:15 PM
Ian Williams's Avatar
Ian Williams Ian Williams is offline
Rebel
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Venezuela.
Posts: 3,182
Default Re: Phil Rudd fined

BassDriver:

Mate - I'm Venezuelan and used to travel to other countries long time ago. I have worked overseas but never had the chance to go to Australia, keeping the hope and faith though to visit your country!

Regarding Australian issues: I had been around, lived and worked with Australian ex-pats, listening to AC/DC since I was a toddler...so you know the close feeling and relationship with you mates!

I appreciate your question, Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BassDriver View Post
Ian...it seems you have an interest towards issues involving Australians...your location tag says you're in Venezuela...have you been to Australia or are you a traveller?
__________________
Thank you so much...

Last edited by Ian Williams; 03-17-2011 at 05:42 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 03-16-2011, 06:23 PM
Deathmetalconga's Avatar
Deathmetalconga Deathmetalconga is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 7,228
Default Re: Phil Rudd fined

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pollyanna View Post
Maybe we could even get used to taking responsibility for running our lives and grow up a bit?
That's a nice concept, but a certain percentage of the population is going to resist that, regardless if the means to self-destruction are legal or illegal. Government disability programs, for example, are basically a de-facto retirement program for drug addicts. People who are legitimately disabled usually have other programs to help, so government disability is a politer way of saying "I screwed up my health too much on drugs/alcohol/cigarettes so now I can't work, although I never did work much so I never paid into Social Security or health insurance, so now everyone else has to take care of me whether they want to or not." I say that knowing there there are some exceptions out there.

If someone's disability is due to self-abuse, I think they should at least be regularly tested for any kind of drug use and thrown off the program if they so much as smoke a cigarette.

Phil Rudd is a productive member of society using weed in the privacy of his own home. I am willing to look the other way in cases like this, even as I think these things should remain illegal.
__________________
Ironwood kit Tiki kit Openhanders Vids
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 03-16-2011, 06:49 PM
Crazy8s
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Phil Rudd fined

When organizing my life to match some of this country's most upright and intelligent, righteous and caring leaders, I choose to follow in the footsteps of Thomas Jefferson. He was the most intelligent and productive President of the US, and he grew marijuana at Monticello.

One day, after realizing that our country need some direction of its own and didn't need help from the tax-hungering Brits, he rolled up a big fat blunt from his private stash, inhaled some of that tasty smoke and then proceeded to write the Declaration of Independence on hemp paper.

If smoking weed makes me stupid and a burnout like Thomas Jefferson and George Washington (who also grew it on his land), then so be it.

As a side-note. THC not only helps cancer patients with side-effects of the drugs they take, the THC actually helps kill cancerous cells. Our glorious and esteemed scientific community realized this statistically in 1977 but the powers-that-be chose to push more expensive and less effective pharmaceuticals on us instead. Now why would they do that?

I am afraid that our government does not like us so why should I believe anything that they tell us?
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 03-16-2011, 07:03 PM
Ian Williams's Avatar
Ian Williams Ian Williams is offline
Rebel
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Venezuela.
Posts: 3,182
Default Re: Phil Rudd fined

Very good, well done Larry!

You have spoken your mind honestly on this statement, you never allowed the government and local news media to put a blindfold and ear plugs to control you...I'm tipping my hat on you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
I want to live in a country where the governments don't try and micromanage my life. My government breaks every law ever made everyday, and they expect ME to not break an unconstitutional law? I look on my government as my enemy. Sad but true. I hate to say that but more than anyone, they have the power to screw me royally, for life. They would like nothing better than to toss me in jail, ruin my life, and break my spirit for breaking the most unjust law ever penned. Meanwhile my government buys hard drugs, sells hard drugs, and then turns around and arrests those who use those drugs. It's all about them getting every penny you earned and sucking you dry. My government is not my friend, they are the ones I need to protect myself against. They are my enemys, disguised as my ally.

I don't break any MORAL laws, more than I can say for my government. I will break any law I feel is an unjust law, and not feel bad about it, as long as it is not morally wrong to break that law.

I will probably leave my country at some point and go to Sweden. I am too disgusted with America. It's all about greed. People are thought of as cattle. Look at how much wasn't done for New Orleans after the Katrina disaster. If that would have happened in Boston.....you get the picture.
__________________
Thank you so much...
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 03-16-2011, 07:10 PM
Ian Williams's Avatar
Ian Williams Ian Williams is offline
Rebel
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Venezuela.
Posts: 3,182
Default Re: Phil Rudd fined

Next time, I will be fined and thrown in jail due to smoking Cuban, Honduran, Dominican and Venezuelan Cigars. Are they illegal? Hey, who's got a cigar?
__________________
Thank you so much...
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 03-16-2011, 07:12 PM
Deathmetalconga's Avatar
Deathmetalconga Deathmetalconga is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 7,228
Default Re: Phil Rudd fined

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy8s View Post
When organizing my life to match some of this country's most upright and intelligent, righteous and caring leaders, I choose to follow in the footsteps of Thomas Jefferson. He was the most intelligent and productive President of the US, and he grew marijuana at Monticello.

One day, after realizing that our country need some direction of its own and didn't need help from the tax-hungering Brits, he rolled up a big fat blunt from his private stash, inhaled some of that tasty smoke and then proceeded to write the Declaration of Independence on hemp paper.

If smoking weed makes me stupid and a burnout like Thomas Jefferson and George Washington (who also grew it on his land), then so be it.

As a side-note. THC not only helps cancer patients with side-effects of the drugs they take, the THC actually helps kill cancerous cells. Our glorious and esteemed scientific community realized this statistically in 1977 but the powers-that-be chose to push more expensive and less effective pharmaceuticals on us instead. Now why would they do that?

I am afraid that our government does not like us so why should I believe anything that they tell us?
Sigmund Freud also wrote many of his theories on psychology when he was high out of his mind mainlining cocaine, which was legal. Consider his idea that when you are potty trained affects your personality profoundly. If you're potty trained too early (anally retentive), you become obsessed with organization and money for the rest of your life. If you're potty trained too late (anally expulsive), you are disorganized and careless with money for the rest of your life.

You'd have to be high out of your gourd to come up with something crazy like that!

Unfortunately, Freud was highly influential and set back the treatment of mental illness for 50 years or more, contending, ironically, that drugs have no use in treating mental illness and that his psychotherapy could cure everything.
__________________
Ironwood kit Tiki kit Openhanders Vids
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 03-16-2011, 07:31 PM
Crazy8s
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Phil Rudd fined

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathmetalconga View Post
Sigmund Freud also wrote many of his theories on psychology when he was high out of his mind mainlining cocaine, which was legal. Consider his idea that when you are potty trained affects your personality profoundly. If you're potty trained too early (anally retentive), you become obsessed with organization and money for the rest of your life. If you're potty trained too late (anally expulsive), you are disorganized and careless with money for the rest of your life.

You'd have to be high out of your gourd to come up with something crazy like that!

Unfortunately, Freud was highly influential and set back the treatment of mental illness for 50 years or more, contending, ironically, that drugs have no use in treating mental illness and that his psychotherapy could cure everything.
Are you confusing THC use with a cocained out, egomaniacal motherhumper?

Be it known that not once in my entire history of THC indulgence did I ever even think about getting it on with my mom.

Cocaine was but a small part of that freaks problems. Everybody should have known not to listen to him.

While the Bible may not explicitly tell us not to get freaky with our parents, it does tell us that using seed-bearing plants is well within our "Biblical" rights. It even tells us on the very first page of the good book! The very first page, very first column, just after the Universe got made, God tells us that Cannibis is just fine for us.

"And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat." - Genesis 1:29

If and when I ever get taken to trial for marijuana use and they ask me to place my right hand on the Good Book and swear to tell the truth, I will verify that this book they ask me to put my hand on is legit by asking the bailiff to read from the very first page of it.

Why is it that my honesty in court is judged against a specific book that the court itself doesn't adhere to?
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 03-16-2011, 07:41 PM
Drums101's Avatar
Drums101 Drums101 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 366
Default Re: Phil Rudd fined

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post

I don't break any MORAL laws, more than I can say for my government. I will break any law I feel is an unjust law, and not feel bad about it, as long as it is not morally wrong to break that law.
Do you feel smoking pot, something that increases your chances of mental illness and is in general bad for your health, morally correct?

It's true smoking and alcohol are very bad as well, and they are legal, but I feel they should be outlawed as well.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 03-16-2011, 07:53 PM
Crazy8s
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Phil Rudd fined

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drums101 View Post
Do you feel smoking pot, something that increases your chances of mental illness and is in general bad for your health, morally correct?

There is absolutely no scientifically valid 'evidence' that Cannibis use is harmful to the human physical self or mental health.

Every single one of these supposed detrimental effects of THC use have been fabrications of the propaganda machine that is your government.

You probably want to stay away from operating heavy machinery while on it though. Save it for after work.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 03-16-2011, 07:55 PM
larryace's Avatar
larryace larryace is offline
"Uncle Larry"
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: In beautiful Bucks County, PA
Posts: 13,398
Default Re: Phil Rudd fined

A little off topic, but I feel this is important info and should be spread about....I just found out recently that the Federal Reserve Bank of the US, the bank that dictates the flow of money (read, the bank who has the power to make or break this country) is, get this....

A PRIVATE CORPORATION! A Freakin PRIVATE CORPORATION! They are no more Federal than Federal Express.

I can't tell you how many levels of wrong that is..
Furthermore, the main stockholder of the US Federal Reserve Bank is, get this, the Rothchilds of London! Not even an American!

The US Constitution states that ONLY CONGRESS has the power to issue currency. ONLY CONGRESS! That is a fact. The Fed is not Congress. They aren't even part of the government. The Fed is immune to audits also. They have no higher authority to answer to. The Federal Reserve Bank of the US is by it's very existance, unconstitutional, plain and simple.

When the US needs more currency, the order goes to the Federal Reserve, and they just print the money, (with no gold backing it up) and issue it to the US Treasury, as a loan! Then the best part (for the Fed) the Fed has to be paid back that money with interest! I hope everyone who isn't aware of these facts is seeing red.

This info has been around awhile, I just became aware in the last month or so, and I was hopping mad when I found this out. Woodrow Wilson (The President who signed the Federal Reserve Act) was quoted as saying (a few years after he signed the Bill) "I have unwittingly ruined my country".

Give me the control of a nations money supply (like the Fed has) and it matters not who makes the laws.

That is a quote from one of the Rothchilds.

The whole thing just sickens me.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 03-16-2011, 08:04 PM
Crazy8s
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Phil Rudd fined

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Williams View Post
Next time, I will be fined and thrown in jail due to smoking Cuban, Honduran, Dominican and Venezuelan Cigars. Are they illegal? Hey, who's got a cigar?
Here in the US, Cuban cigars are indeed still illegal. In 1962, the political genius that is our government decided to punish the Cubans for trying to impose Communism on its own people by ceasing their ability to sell their primary export to the US.

Of course this is a long and drawn out story, but it does have a very exciting crescendo. At the height of this Capitalist pig-dog versus Communist heretic story is how our whole entire world almost came to a swift and fiery end via nuclear devastation.

We are willing to destroy all humanity to prove how righteous and wholesome and morally proper we are.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 03-16-2011, 08:24 PM
THC's Avatar
THC THC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 401
Default Re: Phil Rudd fined

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drums101 View Post
Do you feel smoking pot, something that increases your chances of mental illness and is in general bad for your health, morally correct?

It's true smoking and alcohol are very bad as well, and they are legal, but I feel they should be outlawed as well.
Yet another victim of the government propoganda machine.

The only problem with cannabis is the pain and suffering caused by its prohibition.

It's the government and the legal system that ruins your life, not cannabis.
Reply With Quote
  #61  
Old 03-16-2011, 08:57 PM
Pollyanna's Avatar
Pollyanna Pollyanna is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cyberspace, Sydney connection
Posts: 10,000
Default Re: Phil Rudd fined

Uh oh, I'm screwed. I both work for the government and believe that the psychodynamic school of psychology has a valid place in the system (especially Jung and Berne ... transactional analysis is brilliant). Freud built that house and the man was a visionary. Like any science, the first tranches are laughably flawed by today's standards. Compare his thinking to that which prevailed back in his day. Behavioural psychology is great for some things, but its focus on symptoms means it will only paper over cracks in cases with a deep-seated root. If you have rising damp, there's not much point replacing the wallpaper ever two months. The trouble with Freudian psychology is that it's powerful, which makes it destructive if not done well. So you don't go messing with the plumbing when the wallpaper only has a few marks and tears. Horses for courses.

As for government, it's not one homogeneous beast. There are different aspects, some good and some bad. The executive is pretty ugly, but there are tons of good people working in government. (present company excluded :). My main criticism of them is they are too conservative (for my liking), too close-minded. It should be said that private enterprise ain't always so wonderful either ... think News Ltd and Exxon.

Really, the problem isn't only government, the problem is BIG things. And the problem with the big things is that they dominate small things - to suit themselves, just like a cat and mouse (this is Bo's cue). If you're a mouse, you're going to find cats pretty inconvenient. All you do is hope to escape their attention. Julian Assange is an example of someone who came to the "cat's" attention. Karen Silkwood is another.

Buy can we really blame the cat? After all, how convenient are we to insects we see in the house? It's the cycle ...

As well, I'd suggest that Rupert Murdoch has done far more to shape our nations than any politician or bureaucrat. He calls the shots. If they don't jump, they are sacked. In the end, it's his fault that Phil got nicked!

Sorry about all this - I'm an analyst. That's what I do - I analyse things ... all the time. It drives me crazy. The only thing that keeps me sane is being able to get in a room with a bunch of people with instruments and play music, and later on wind down with a few cones :)
__________________
.
Polly's rhythms
.

Last edited by Pollyanna; 03-16-2011 at 09:14 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 03-17-2011, 02:54 AM
Jazz+Ska!'s Avatar
Jazz+Ska! Jazz+Ska! is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 44
Default Re: Phil Rudd fined

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy8s View Post
When organizing my life to match some of this country's most upright and intelligent, righteous and caring leaders, I choose to follow in the footsteps of Thomas Jefferson. He was the most intelligent and productive President of the US, and he grew marijuana at Monticello.

One day, after realizing that our country need some direction of its own and didn't need help from the tax-hungering Brits, he rolled up a big fat blunt from his private stash, inhaled some of that tasty smoke and then proceeded to write the Declaration of Independence on hemp paper.

If smoking weed makes me stupid and a burnout like Thomas Jefferson and George Washington (who also grew it on his land), then so be it.
Um, could you provide two or three unbiased sources that support this? I mean all of these arguments (I guess even my own) have not really been supported, but I really wonder about this...

I seem not very good at choosing words, but I will plainly say that marijuana is not good. You can not deny it has some of the same side effects as smoking a normal cigarette.
Also, anything that could become addiction, whether physical or mental, is not healthy. So many people say "I could quit if I wanted." But, can they really? No. Not without a struggle.
They are a slave to something that is essentially out of their control. Not a fun way to live. Also the culture associated with it is also detrimental to a person.
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 03-17-2011, 03:04 AM
PQleyR's Avatar
PQleyR PQleyR is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Godalming, UK
Posts: 2,273
Default Re: Phil Rudd fined

The problem is that it is not the business of the government to look after people's individual health. Public order yes, but to a significant degree individual choice is what dictates health.
The government cannot dictate individual choice without resorting to tyranny, therefore this does not work. The fact that it may harm your own health is no business of the government's. Even if they are putting money into your healthcare, if you live less long you will use less resources.
__________________
Drummer for Gloryhammer
My facebook page
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 03-17-2011, 03:30 AM
Jazz+Ska!'s Avatar
Jazz+Ska! Jazz+Ska! is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 44
Default Re: Phil Rudd fined

Yes, I see your point. No one wants the 'perfect', government ran, Utopian society you read of in books such as The Giver and Anthem, but that are a actually cold tyranny.
However, to some degree the government does have to watch after personal choices to promote the general welfare.
Speeding is a personal choice that can result in death or injury, thus it is unhealthy, but not only to the individual, but also to other people in the community.

But back to the main topic. Drug use harms a society. A bunch of individuals I just described running (more like living, but whatever) around in a community cannot promote public order or wellness.
Making something illegal with a fine of money or jail time is not what I call tyranny. Shooting someone on sight for smoking is what I call tyranny, which is not the case.

Besides the government never actually controls you. You can do whatever the heck you want, they just impose fines and penalties for those in actions.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 03-17-2011, 04:00 AM
PQleyR's Avatar
PQleyR PQleyR is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Godalming, UK
Posts: 2,273
Default Re: Phil Rudd fined

Drug use harms a society because it gives criminals an opportunity to become powerful. Remove the restrictions on the supply and suddenly your organised criminals have lost their number one revenue stream. Look at the prohibition of alcohol. No benefit for people's health, but Al Capone got to become a big fish because he had something people wanted. It's obvious that drugs will always be around, so rather than trying to deny this fact it seems eminently more sensible to promote sensible use of them, OR remove the conditions that cause people to use them. You can see this with so-called 'legal highs', when one is made illegal people just go to something slightly more dangerous with a similar effect. Eventually you would have to make almost every substance illegal. It cannot, and does not work.
__________________
Drummer for Gloryhammer
My facebook page
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 03-17-2011, 06:31 AM
Crazy8s
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Phil Rudd fined

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazz+Ska! View Post
Um, could you provide two or three unbiased sources that support this? I mean all of these arguments (I guess even my own) have not really been supported, but I really wonder about this...

I seem not very good at choosing words, but I will plainly say that marijuana is not good. You can not deny it has some of the same side effects as smoking a normal cigarette.
Also, anything that could become addiction, whether physical or mental, is not healthy. So many people say "I could quit if I wanted." But, can they really? No. Not without a struggle.
They are a slave to something that is essentially out of their control. Not a fun way to live. Also the culture associated with it is also detrimental to a person.
No sweat bro.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...drugs#Cannabis
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 03-17-2011, 08:06 AM
Pollyanna's Avatar
Pollyanna Pollyanna is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cyberspace, Sydney connection
Posts: 10,000
Default Re: Phil Rudd fined

We should ban junk food. Too many people are abusing it. They are slaves to it, which is not a good way to live. They say they could stop any time they wanted and shift to a healthy veggie diet, but they'd find it a struggle. That's not a good way to live.

Okay, prohibition would put even more billions into the hands of organised crime, fill our very expensive jails with junk food addicts, create a huge load for our very expensive police and courts, and turn what are basically regular citizens into "criminals" but surely that's better than risking the terrible health problems associated with obesity, not to mention premature death.

It almost makes sense, doesn't it?

Trouble is, the tolerant Netherlands has half the pot and coke use of the prohibitionist USA. Surely that's an anomaly, isn't it? Surely prohibition couldn't be treating adults as children and increasing the number of them who live down to expectations?? Surely it couldn't be that we could reduce drug abuse, save billions and hurt organised crime by applying commonsense to public policy? And also stop intruding on people's private lives as well.

Sorry about the the sarcasm but it's all been said before and it seems we're going around in circles:
"Drugs are bad and I agree with prohibition"

"But prohibition has failed because [lists the issues]".

"Yes, but drugs are bad and I agree with prohibition"

And so on.
If anyone is willing or able to argue that the problems of prohibition that we've covered will be greater than taking a health and education-based approach, please do it. It would help to provide stats, as Andy has done.

The control measure I'd like to see is a compulsory 30-second delay between plays built into gaming machines. I wouldn't ban them (same problems as any prohibition) but the delays would reduce the machines' addictiveness. Who knows? If they were less profitable maybe bars and clubs would hire more live music?
__________________
.
Polly's rhythms
.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 03-17-2011, 09:05 AM
keep it simple's Avatar
keep it simple keep it simple is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Herefordshire, UK.
Posts: 16,398
Default Re: Phil Rudd fined

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Furthermore, the main stockholder of the US Federal Reserve Bank is, get this, the Rothchilds of London! Not even an American!

Give me the control of a nations money supply (like the Fed has) and it matters not who makes the laws.

That is a quote from one of the Rothchilds.
Cool! Ya thought you'd got rid of us taxing limey bastards, & just when you thought it was safe to ruin the world economy & give us pain, we're right back at ya! Ha! Reagan thought it was "the reds under the beds", & those cigar exporting Cuban "commies", it was us Brits all along. We programmed the Rothchilds to dig under your very banking foundations & charge you stupid money for their wine. We can buy a bottle of 2000 Château Lafite Rothschild for under $10 in my village store, lol!
__________________
This message is brought to you courtesy of Thinly Veiled Productions inc.
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 03-17-2011, 12:28 PM
mattsmith's Avatar
mattsmith mattsmith is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Nashville
Posts: 1,911
Default Re: Phil Rudd fined

Quote:
Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
Just for interest.

USA figures for consumption at sometime over a 12 month period

Marijuana 25.77 million 10.3% of population.

The Netherlands figures for consumption at sometime over a 12 month period

Marijuana 5.4% of population.

Interesting that the country that operates an open supply policy (registered coffee shops, but still illegal drug status), takes it out of the hands of criminals, yet seeks to educate, has half the consumption in terms of percentage of population. Just in case you believe in the gateway theory, the Dutch have half the percentage users of coke too.
Same thing happened during 1920s liquor and beer prohibition. Social drinking in the US increased by 400% . In the South Side of Chicago alone, legal drinking establishments in 1916 (4 years before prohibition) numbered less than 10. By 1924 (four years into prohibition) there were over 600 illegal ones. Bottom line is you just don't get very far telling an American what to do when it regards a social behavior. The good news was that almost all of those 600+ venues hired a drummer.
__________________
I endorse Zildjian sticks because I like them.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 03-17-2011, 01:04 PM
Frost's Avatar
Frost Frost is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 933
Default Re: Phil Rudd fined

As a blue-collar raised Australian, like Phil Rudd, this honestly isn't surprising, or a big deal. Marijuana is like tobacco or beer to most working class Australians I've met.
__________________
A disquiet mind at therapy with the music.
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 03-17-2011, 01:09 PM
keep it simple's Avatar
keep it simple keep it simple is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Herefordshire, UK.
Posts: 16,398
Default Re: Phil Rudd fined

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattsmith View Post
The good news was that almost all of those 600+ venues hired a drummer.
Hahaha, that's great Matt. The foundations of drumming greatness on the back of mass liver damage. How cool is that!
__________________
This message is brought to you courtesy of Thinly Veiled Productions inc.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 03-17-2011, 01:31 PM
Ian Williams's Avatar
Ian Williams Ian Williams is offline
Rebel
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Venezuela.
Posts: 3,182
Default Re: Phil Rudd fined

Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap:

Check: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IH8N4...eature=related

I think somebody snitched under done dirt cheap on Phil!
__________________
Thank you so much...
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 03-17-2011, 02:17 PM
BassDriver's Avatar
BassDriver BassDriver is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 726
Default Re: Phil Rudd fined

Quote:
Really, the problem isn't only government, the problem is BIG things. And the problem with the big things is that they dominate small things - to suit themselves, just like a cat and mouse (this is Bo's cue). If you're a mouse, you're going to find cats pretty inconvenient. All you do is hope to escape their attention. Julian Assange is an example of someone who came to the "cat's" attention. Karen Silkwood is another.
Big things being a big problem...

I recommend you read Small is Beautiful by the EF Schumacher.
__________________
Check out some of my drumming on my youtube channel:http://www.youtube.com/user/Drumosity
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 03-17-2011, 04:46 PM
mattsmith's Avatar
mattsmith mattsmith is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Nashville
Posts: 1,911
Default Re: Phil Rudd fined

Quote:
Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
Hahaha, that's great Matt. The foundations of drumming greatness on the back of mass liver damage. How cool is that!
Iconic drummers who played their first steady gig in an illegal American drinking establishment.

Gene Krupa
Dave Tough
George Wettling
Sonny Greer
Chick Webb
Jo Jones
Sid Catlett
Ray Bauduc

God bless prohibition.
__________________
I endorse Zildjian sticks because I like them.
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 03-17-2011, 05:01 PM
larryace's Avatar
larryace larryace is offline
"Uncle Larry"
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: In beautiful Bucks County, PA
Posts: 13,398
Default Re: Phil Rudd fined

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pollyanna View Post
We should ban junk food. Too many people are abusing it. They are slaves to it, which is not a good way to live. They say they could stop any time they wanted and shift to a healthy veggie diet, but they'd find it a struggle. That's not a good way to live.

Okay, prohibition would put even more billions into the hands of organised crime, fill our very expensive jails with junk food addicts, create a huge load for our very expensive police and courts, and turn what are basically regular citizens into "criminals" but surely that's better than risking the terrible health problems associated with obesity, not to mention premature death.

It almost makes sense, doesn't it?

Trouble is, the tolerant Netherlands has half the pot and coke use of the prohibitionist USA. Surely that's an anomaly, isn't it? Surely prohibition couldn't be treating adults as children and increasing the number of them who live down to expectations?? Surely it couldn't be that we could reduce drug abuse, save billions and hurt organised crime by applying commonsense to public policy? And also stop intruding on people's private lives as well.

Sorry about the the sarcasm but it's all been said before and it seems we're going around in circles:
"Drugs are bad and I agree with prohibition"

"But prohibition has failed because [lists the issues]".

"Yes, but drugs are bad and I agree with prohibition"

And so on.
If anyone is willing or able to argue that the problems of prohibition that we've covered will be greater than taking a health and education-based approach, please do it. It would help to provide stats, as Andy has done.

The control measure I'd like to see is a compulsory 30-second delay between plays built into gaming machines. I wouldn't ban them (same problems as any prohibition) but the delays would reduce the machines' addictiveness. Who knows? If they were less profitable maybe bars and clubs would hire more live music?

I just love this whole post. Right on Pol!
You can't legistate personal choices about what goes in my body, a line must be drawn. Government can't be given total power, because the only thing that matter to governments are money, energy, money, land, money, power and money. They also care about money too. Citizens don't really factor into their larger schemes. They are actually a nuisance to governments. It's up to the citizens to keep government where it belongs. (and we need all the help we can get)
In my mind my government is my arch enemy, sorry but that's how I really feel. Future Swedish citizen here.
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 03-17-2011, 05:15 PM
MikeM's Avatar
MikeM MikeM is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 4,694
Default Re: Phil Rudd fined

I love prohibition because I like living in the seedy underbelly of society. You could make pot legal, but where would the fun be in that?!
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 03-17-2011, 09:03 PM
keep it simple's Avatar
keep it simple keep it simple is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Herefordshire, UK.
Posts: 16,398
Default Re: Phil Rudd fined

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
. Future Swedish citizen here.
Why Sweden larry? I worked there for many years, & have a lot of great friends there. Cool place (in so many ways), & I love the Swedes, but their government is just as controlling as any western European establishment, & more than some. High taxes too, & ask any Swede about
Systembolaget. The government controls the sale of all alcohol except very weak beers. You have to buy your alcohol from the government, but the selection is superb. Pity about the prices!
__________________
This message is brought to you courtesy of Thinly Veiled Productions inc.
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 03-17-2011, 11:05 PM
Pollyanna's Avatar
Pollyanna Pollyanna is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cyberspace, Sydney connection
Posts: 10,000
Default Re: Phil Rudd fined

[quote=larryace;815430the only thing that matter to governments are money, energy, money, land, money, power and money. They also care about money too. Citizens don't really factor into their larger schemes. They are actually a nuisance to governments. It's up to the citizens to keep government where it belongs. (and we need all the help we can get)
In my mind my government is my arch enemy, sorry but that's how I really feel. Future Swedish citizen here.[/quote]

Bearing in mind that governments are controlled by multinationals. As I said earlier, the issue isn't "government" but the "big fish", who consume us little fish ... have a look at that book recommendation BassDriver gave me. The big fish include government but, rest assured, if governments don't do the multinationals' bidding they get voted out.

In Oz, most of our money comes through mining, which is largely owned by multinationals with majority foreign ownership. They are digging up non-renewable resources at breakneck speed and making mind-blowing profits. The government decided that we needed to keep some of this one-off money in Oz and aired the idea of a super profits tax - which only raised rates for the companies after the company had made billions and billions of profit. There is no way the companies would be struggling because they had already made "super profits".

Thing is, we're losing our resources and most of the money is going overseas. The mining companies spent many thousands on an aggressive advertising campaign. They cried poor, saying they'd be forced to leave Oz (BS) and sack thousands of workers (BS). With the help of the Opposition and the Murdoch press they got the prime minister sacked through his plummeting approval ratings. Soon afterwards the government lost their previously-healthy majority next election, surviving with only the help of two independents - and this was with a religious fundamentalist loony in charge of the Opposition who was previously considered an unelectable joke!

The tax made sense. When the resources are largely gone - we are screwed. We'll have diddly squat. We need to make the money when it's available. Thing is, we also need to invest that money wisely to set ourselves up for the time when the minerals are depleted.

And what better investment for a country's citizens is there than to pour thousands of dollars on police, lawyers, courts and administrative costs so as to humiliate rock stars and persecute harmless little people who enjoy a few scoobies?

So, yes, government sucks but they are only a cog in the larger sucking machine, which is largely controlled by big biz. They call the shots. Do you think about the spider's life when you pull down its web? Do you worry about the children when you kill pregnant cockroaches (apart from being glad)? If a trail of ants leads to the honey in your pantry, do you leave it be so they can get on with their lives? Or do you "tidy them up"?

We are big biz and the govt. The insects are Phil Rudd and other small, annoying pests like you and me. It's the law of the jungle. All we insects can do is avoid the predators ... the Big Things.

Sure, for some reason Scandinavians seem to be more evolved and have moved past some stupid stuff that we Yanks, Poms and Convicts obsess about. I suspect it's because they're usually stuck indoors in bad weather and are therefore forced to actually think.

I'd rather enjoy good weather and stay under the radar so I'm not squashed like a bug :) Then you have Mike's comment - when you're young it's satisfying to thumb your nose at being naughty and evading the Big Things. That, of course, is why the US has much higher drug use than Holland. Forbidden fruit.

On a musical note (ha) the speakeasies hired lots of musos. Now we have E-fuelled rave parties and they hire DJs.

// end insomniac rant - back to bed :) //
__________________
.
Polly's rhythms
.
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 03-18-2011, 01:04 AM
MikeM's Avatar
MikeM MikeM is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 4,694
Default Re: Phil Rudd fined

Nice job distilling Big Things down to its essence. You're very good at that and I agree with your assessment of Big Things vs. small things. It's not typically just about government control since, as you point out, gov is just a cog in the larger machine.

But I'm still not clear where big biz has much of a stake in this particular culture mini-war. My impression is that in this case it is solely politicians fretting over the next election cycle and the formidable block of social conservatives who would likely succeed in derailing the career of any who dared push for legalization.

Hopefully my adolescent comment was taken as the cheek it was meant to be. I doubt my habits would change much post-prohibition - unless repeal comes post-MikeM.
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 03-18-2011, 02:06 AM
KBadd's Avatar
KBadd KBadd is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Live....well!
Posts: 575
Default Re: Phil Rudd fined

More Govt = less choices for people

Less Govt = more choices for people

Phil.......sorry dude.

The K
__________________
K

Zildjian--Mapex Saturn--Remo--DW 5000--Iron Cobra--Regal Tip AVH
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com