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  #1  
Old 03-10-2011, 01:31 PM
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Default Music's deadliest genre

The usual media hype but it does seem that musos don't have the longest life spans:

http://www.theage.com.au/entertainme...ml?from=smh_ft
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Old 03-10-2011, 02:00 PM
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Default Re: Music's deadliest genre

They are the ones that make the headlines. No one who abuses drugs has a long life span. Charlies Sheen will be next. He is too arrogant to believe he needs, or seek help. People die everyday from drugs but we don't know them so they just get swept under the carpet or put on the back page.
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Old 03-10-2011, 03:22 PM
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Default Re: Music's deadliest genre

Charlie is just having some fun. Ya know people die everyday of all sorts of things. Death is a way of life. I've gotten used to it....the ultimate journey as it were. What are ya gonna do?
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Old 03-10-2011, 05:10 PM
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Default Re: Music's deadliest genre

The title's "Music's deadliest genre" and rock/metal/grunge pops up?
Bit generalising isn't it when gangster rap's got a higher head count (actual homocide) to rock/metal/grunge (old age/drug use).
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Old 03-10-2011, 05:15 PM
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Default Re: Music's deadliest genre

Polly,

When I saw your post I thought you were going to reffer to the practice of playing drums on a shark hunters boat and falling overboard. Whew!
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Old 03-10-2011, 09:25 PM
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Default Re: Music's deadliest genre

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The title's "Music's deadliest genre" and rock/metal/grunge pops up?
Bit generalising isn't it when gangster rap's got a higher head count (actual homocide) to rock/metal/grunge (old age/drug use).
Later on they talked about hip hop. The arts generally seems to have a lot of people who die young. Maybe it's a combo of culture, the pressure of having to keep producing peak performance and all the downtime waiting around? In Charlie Sheens's case, it's the money and adulation; he sees no limits (and is probably bipolar or something).

That's quite an imagination you have there, Zicko.
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Old 03-11-2011, 02:50 AM
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Default Re: Music's deadliest genre

I'm actually currently reading a biography of Kurt Cobain. It sheds light on all the deaths in the world of rock music.

Heavy stuff.
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Old 03-11-2011, 06:04 AM
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Default Re: Music's deadliest genre

Some people are like that. They live fast and wild until the unsustainability of the lifestyle catches up.

Then they either fall off the perch (eg. Jim Morrison, Kurt) or their survival instincts kick in and they go through the demanding task of getting better (eg. Keef, Courtney).
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Old 03-11-2011, 07:38 AM
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Default Re: Music's deadliest genre

Sad news to hear of another rock star dying young, but heroin and other hard drugs will definitely do that.

Grunge tends to get more attention then it deserves a lot of the time due to the attention it received in the 90s.

I can name about four different Funeral Doom bands, one of the most oppressive (sounding) and depressing sub genres of metal, with members that have committed suicide.
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Old 03-11-2011, 11:22 AM
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Default Re: Music's deadliest genre

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Originally Posted by Pollyanna View Post
Later on they talked about hip hop. The arts generally seems to have a lot of people who die young. Maybe it's a combo of culture, the pressure of having to keep producing peak performance and all the downtime waiting around? In Charlie Sheens's case, it's the money and adulation; he sees no limits (and is probably bipolar or something).
1. Sorry I didn't actually see a link there the other day and assumed you were making the assumption (pity, 'cos I always like your posts and thought it was quite odd).

2. Charlie Sheen isn't a music genre, he's an actor - Why's he in the discussion?


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Sad news to hear of another rock star dying young,
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Old 03-11-2011, 02:08 PM
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Default Re: Music's deadliest genre

I am truly amazed that there are so many musicians still alive who played in the 1960s and 1970s, based on the lifestyles they lived. Some are in their late 60s and 70s and still touring. Many of them are vegetarians now and don't drink or smoke anymore. But the reality is that the first wave of rock n rollers are going to pass away in the next 5-10 years.
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Old 03-11-2011, 02:35 PM
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Default Re: Music's deadliest genre

Geez Frosty, Funeral Doom sounds like a major downer. Wikipedia says that "Funeral doom ... places an emphasis on evoking a sense of emptiness and despair".

They could just as easily just work in business performance analysis like I do and save themselves the trouble. Then they could listen to happier music.


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Charlie Sheen isn't a music genre, he's an actor - Why's he in the discussion?
lol - good point, Hell ... I guess I mentioned him for the same reason as Edmund Hilary gave for climbing Mount Everest :) He's kind of a rock star, isn't he?


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I am truly amazed that there are so many musicians still alive who played in the 1960s and 1970s, based on the lifestyles they lived.
.
I agree, INOG. Mick Jagger is a good example. Apparently he lives really healthily now, and his stage act still looks like a huge workout. How Keef survived ... that's a mystery. I think it's because he was never really a tortured soul - he's just a really hedonistic guy. The ones who died all seemed to wear life more heavily than him and I'm guessing that at least part of their self abuse was about escape, maybe self destructiveness in some cases.
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Old 03-11-2011, 02:40 PM
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lol - good point, Hell ... I guess I mentioned him for the same reason as Edmund Hilary gave for climbing Mount Everest :) He's kind of a rock star, isn't he?
No, he's an actor.
Unless he plays rock music for aliving and has a sizable audience and record sales, he's not a "rock star".

Otherwise you might say the Pope is or Barrack Obama is...



Like the idiots who call Backstreet Boys a rock band
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Old 03-11-2011, 03:10 PM
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Default Re: Music's deadliest genre

Gee Hell, you're not going to let me off with this one, are you? You're a hard man!

Okay, I give in. Charlie Sheen doesn't count. Scrap the Sheen comment from the Hansard!
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Old 03-11-2011, 03:20 PM
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Default Re: Music's deadliest genre

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Gee Hell, you're not going to let me off with this one, are you? You're a hard man!

Okay, I give in. Charlie Sheen doesn't count. Scrap the Sheen comment from the Hansard!
Charlie was quoted as saying he is embracing the rock star life style that he has. Does that count? :-)
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Old 03-11-2011, 03:21 PM
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Default Re: Music's deadliest genre

Ozzy Osbourne should have been dead a few times. Some people have quite the fortitude.
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Old 03-11-2011, 07:17 PM
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Default Re: Music's deadliest genre

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Gee Hell, you're not going to let me off with this one, are you? You're a hard man!
Why are you having a go at me for this when it's blatent common sense?


ANGUS YOUNG
PHIL LYNOTT
BRUCE DICKINSON
JOHN BONHAM
ROCK Stars


BACKSTREET BOYS
N*SYNC
MARIAH CAREY
KATY PERRY
POP stars



CHARLIE SHEEN
Actor


I'm not being pedantic but unless someone plays bone fide rock music and is a celebrity for doing it, they're not a "rock star".

Hell, someone could roll in a stretch Lincoln and swig champagne and coke off a latino honey's stomach ... untill they tour with Motley crue playing their own brand of sleaze riffs, they're just a person.






And Lemmy's pretty much indestructible.
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Old 03-11-2011, 10:50 PM
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Default Re: Music's deadliest genre

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Geez Frosty, Funeral Doom sounds like a major downer. Wikipedia says that "Funeral doom ... places an emphasis on evoking a sense of emptiness and despair".

They could just as easily just work in business performance analysis like I do and save themselves the trouble. Then they could listen to happier music.
Not a bad suggestion, but I don't imagine that performance analysis is very beautiful.

For some people beauty resides in nothingness, one might claim that a devotion to the impossible is an expression of pure beauty.

Most funeral doom lyrics I've read have dealt with wishing to resolve personal conflict, usually focalized from the perspective of emptiness and despair.

The music itself tends to be very minimalistic, but with tons of atmosphere.

The downside is that in order to perfect that kind of music, you usually need some serious stuff going on for inspiration.
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Old 03-12-2011, 09:29 AM
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Default Re: Music's deadliest genre

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Why are you having a go at me for this when it's blatent common sense?


i dont think anyone is having a go at you, i find it to be the other way around judging by how your posts come across to me. its a discussion on the internet, take it easy.
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Old 03-12-2011, 11:44 AM
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i dont think anyone is having a go at you, i find it to be the other way around judging by how your posts come across to me.
1. What posts have you read of mine?
- I've only made one post per thread and that was giving my opinion on something, I've never given "opinion" on anything other than my kit or someone else's finish.

To be honest there have been times when I've said exactly what's needed to answer an OP's question but one of the more "established" members did it after and took the credit.

Quote:
its a discussion on the internet, take it easy.
2. "Take it easy" assumes I need to calm down.
My posts have not been anything near angry, they've been discussions.


I have done nothing wrong, I'm here to talk drums and discuss stuff.
Unless I have good need to calm down, don't assume I'm angry please people!!
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Old 03-12-2011, 02:24 PM
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Default Re: Music's deadliest genre

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Not a bad suggestion, but I don't imagine that performance analysis is very beautiful.

For some people beauty resides in nothingness, one might claim that a devotion to the impossible is an expression of pure beauty.

Most funeral doom lyrics I've read have dealt with wishing to resolve personal conflict, usually focalized from the perspective of emptiness and despair.

The music itself tends to be very minimalistic, but with tons of atmosphere.

The downside is that in order to perfect that kind of music, you usually need some serious stuff going on for inspiration.
Just checked out some funeral doom. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FG1J7HhTZE

Very strange music! I liked the start, which would be perfectly suited to a horror film score. Is it possible to be more gothic? I think not. The growls didn't annoy me the way metal growls normally do because they just came across like weird keyboard effects as much as anything. Later on it just sounded like modern Black Sabbath augmented by a keyboard choir.

All that poignant Nordic melancholy (that's what too much crap weather will do to you). I don't think I could handle a regular diet of that music - it really is wrist-slashing stuff. I concede it's much more beautiful than business analysis ... but, then again, everything is :)
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Old 03-12-2011, 03:54 PM
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Default Re: Music's deadliest genre

I wonder when an instructional DVD of this style will be released. Title: "Fills for the Modern Doomer"?
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Old 03-12-2011, 06:28 PM
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Just checked out some funeral doom. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FG1J7HhTZE

Very strange music! I liked the start, which would be perfectly suited to a horror film score. Is it possible to be more gothic? I think not. The growls didn't annoy me the way metal growls normally do because they just came across like weird keyboard effects as much as anything. Later on it just sounded like modern Black Sabbath augmented by a keyboard choir.

All that poignant Nordic melancholy (that's what too much crap weather will do to you). I don't think I could handle a regular diet of that music - it really is wrist-slashing stuff. I concede it's much more beautiful than business analysis ... but, then again, everything is :)
Very cool you actually searched for some of it, it's very different most commercial music (and even metal for that matter).

This is a personal favorite, don't feel obliged to listen to it but it is relatively different to the link you posted, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gcVuFh5c00

I also agree on not being able to regularly listen to it. I can't have it playing 24/7, it is very oppressive, and relating back to the thread, it's plain to see why there are so many genre suicides.

On the topic of the Scandinavian weather, I have no doubt it is in part responsible for the depressive metal scene. On the flip-side I'd say it would be a fair explanation for why Jamaica produces so much upbeat music.
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Old 03-12-2011, 06:32 PM
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I wonder when an instructional DVD of this style will be released. Title: "Fills for the Modern Doomer"?
That idea has potential, though I'd imagine it would be very boring to watch. I incorporate these kind of styles into my drumming, and let me tell you it can be quite a challenge holding a sub 40bpm tempo.
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Old 03-12-2011, 08:22 PM
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Default Re: Music's deadliest genre

Drinking half a bottle of cough syrup before practicing would probably due the trick.
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Old 03-12-2011, 08:45 PM
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Default Re: Music's deadliest genre

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Just checked out some funeral doom. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FG1J7HhTZE
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Very cool you actually searched for some of it, it's very different most commercial music (and even metal for that matter).

This is a personal favorite, don't feel obliged to listen to it but it is relatively different to the link you posted, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gcVuFh5c00
Wow. I love some dark depressing music, but that stuff even goes to far for me.

To the OP, I largely agree with Grunterdad. There are far more drug users who are not musicians, they just don't get the press.

I never really got into grudge, and most of it I can't stand, although I am a fan of Alice in Chains and own all their albums, so go figure. I just hate the the media at large calls Kurt Cobain the leader of my generation. I never liked the guy.
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Old 03-12-2011, 11:23 PM
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This is a personal favorite, don't feel obliged to listen to it but it is relatively different to the link you posted, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gcVuFh5c00

I also agree on not being able to regularly listen to it. I can't have it playing 24/7, it is very oppressive, and relating back to the thread, it's plain to see why there are so many genre suicides
Hoo boy. Another tune that puts the "go" into "gothic". On the plus side, this is not music a person could play when wearing a Hawaiian shirt, and that can only be a good thing :)

Interesting that the players seem to be playing Russian Roulette with their emotional state by specialising in that genre.


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Wow. I love some dark depressing music, but that stuff even goes to far for me.
I know what you mean. I've put up with depression all my life (done the meds, have the post card) and I have a soft spot for dark music. When you have the blues, dark music is calming. It feels a bit like talking with someone who says, "Yeah, I get it".

It's weird the way music is becoming so specialised, perhaps it's a reflection of - as I said in another thread - the increasingly Taylorist world in which we live ... this person puts on the bolt, this person tightens the bolt, this one sprays on the lacquer that holds the bolt on, etc. It ain't natural. Humans are natural polymaths - we can do so much - yet we're forced into these little boxes. And we buy into it! (or maybe can't fight city hall)

I mean, why should bands just play doom? Why not skip the metal side at times and do something ambient, or in other songs pick up the tempo and vibe - even if just a little. I've played really dark music before - and loved it - but it always had a touch of cynical amusement in there as well.

I've attached a track from my old gothic/weird band and I remember doing a major ham up of dramatic heavy parts and getting our guitarist to crack up. Everything we did was dark. We even managed to darken The Beatles's Birthday :) But it was always eclectic. I really miss the eclecticism of the old bands.

The attached recording was from a rehearsal on a cheap cassette player in 1980, converted to MP3 about 10 years ago, so the sound quality is iffy.

We should start a post in the Your Playing area - "Post Your Dark, Depressing Music" :)
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File Type: mp3 So Be It - Pied Piper.mp3 (4.91 MB, 85 views)
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Old 03-12-2011, 11:36 PM
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Does no one remember during the jazz era when players did heroin all the time? Artists of every genre have strung themselves out, and I don't think it really has anything to do with the music.

Artists by their very nature are un-stable. Look at 'em: they can't hold regular jobs and they're so busy looking inwards, they don't know how to behave. When they do have to do something regular, they're miserable. So in all actuality, you take an artist where everything is based on creativity and the act of always creating something, and then you put them into the business of music, which they have to do these shows which, like a good movie, just keeps playing over and over. It takes a certain person who can balance that. I would imagine being in a rock and roll band or some pop project doesn't leave any room for creativity once it gets rolling, eh?
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Old 03-12-2011, 11:43 PM
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I am truly amazed that there are so many musicians still alive who played in the 1960s and 1970s, based on the lifestyles they lived. Some are in their late 60s and 70s and still touring. Many of them are vegetarians now and don't drink or smoke anymore. But the reality is that the first wave of rock n rollers are going to pass away in the next 5-10 years.
The ones who died are more famous than the ones who are still alive.
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Old 03-12-2011, 11:44 PM
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We should start a post in the Your Playing area - "Post Your Dark, Depressing Music" :)
I thought I already had! LOL...
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Old 03-12-2011, 11:44 PM
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Good insight Bo .
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Old 03-12-2011, 11:46 PM
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Does no one remember during the jazz era when players did heroin all the time? Artists of every genre have strung themselves out, and I don't think it really has anything to do with the music.

Artists by their very nature are un-stable. Look at 'em: they can't hold regular jobs and they're so busy looking inwards, they don't know how to behave. When they do have to do something regular, they're miserable. So in all actuality, you take an artist where everything is based on creativity and the act of always creating something, and then you put them into the business of music, which they have to do these shows which, like a good movie, just keeps playing over and over. It takes a certain person who can balance that. I would imagine being in a rock and roll band or some pop project doesn't leave any room for creativity once it gets rolling, eh?
I don't buy the tortured artist stereotype. There are plenty of incredibly creative, productive artists with stable, mature personalities who provide us with decades of work. You just don't hear about them as much because the screw-ups get all of the attention for their "interesting personalities."

Dying of a drug overdose is a disgrace.
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Old 03-12-2011, 11:49 PM
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I am truly amazed that there are so many musicians still alive who played in the 1960s and 1970s, based on the lifestyles they lived. Some are in their late 60s and 70s and still touring. Many of them are vegetarians now and don't drink or smoke anymore. But the reality is that the first wave of rock n rollers are going to pass away in the next 5-10 years.
True.

Did anyone else see the movie on Lemmy?

Oh my, how is that man alive? He was diagnosed with diabetes, and yet he still drinks jack and cokes every day, and smokes like a fiend. He makes no effort to take care of himself, but somehow still keeps going.
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Old 03-12-2011, 11:59 PM
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I don't buy the tortured artist stereotype. There are plenty of incredibly creative, productive artists with stable, mature personalities who provide us with decades of work. You just don't hear about them as much because the screw-ups get all of the attention for their "interesting personalities."
That's true, but creative people find their fuel in different places. Some simply tap into the joy of discovery like a child all their lives. Then they pragmatically deal with the drudgery side of the business. Others are driven by their demons.

As you intimated, plenty have gone off the rails to live up to the clichés, but scratch the surface and you'll find some dark stuff that prevents them from seeing the folly of what they're doing.

DED, where's that thread?? :)

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Look at 'em: they can't hold regular jobs and they're so busy looking inwards, they don't know how to behave.
Agree with Larry - good pickup.
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Old 03-13-2011, 12:09 AM
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That's true, but creative people find their fuel in different places. Some simply tap into the joy of discovery like a child all their lives. Then they pragmatically deal with the drudgery side of the business. Others are driven by their demons.

As you intimated, plenty have gone off the rails to live up to the clichés, but scratch the surface and you'll find some dark stuff that prevents them from seeing the folly of what they're doing.

DED, where's that thread?? :)

Agree with Larry - good pickup.
Good points. People with self-destructive urges, I've noticed, tend to produce a certain kind of work. Those urges color their creativity and they've produced some very enduring art that way.
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Old 03-13-2011, 12:21 AM
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Good points. People with self-destructive urges, I've noticed, tend to produce a certain kind of work. Those urges color their creativity and they've produced some very enduring art that way.
What are the common threads you see in their work, DED? I've never picked up the patterns.
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Old 03-13-2011, 12:24 AM
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Good points. People with self-destructive urges, I've noticed, tend to produce a certain kind of work. Those urges color their creativity and they've produced some very enduring art that way.
Yes, the art often endures long after the artist. What we make of that art is the important question to me? A simple portrait of a tortured soul? A cautionary tale? An inspiration to indulge our own demons? Or simply a glimpse at a way of seeing things we might never have seen or considered before?

It's powerful, that's for certain.
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Old 03-13-2011, 12:31 AM
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Good points. People with self-destructive urges, I've noticed, tend to produce a certain kind of work. Those urges color their creativity and they've produced some very enduring art that way.
It seems.

Every time I watch a special on VH-1 about a band, almost every time you hear the term "tortured soul" or "personal demons" to describe the song writer(s).

I know an experienced producer, and one day he told every singer he's worked with either comes from a messed up back ground (inspiration) or is just so level headed they can let the music flow. In his opinion, there is no middle ground.
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Old 03-13-2011, 01:18 AM
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What are the common threads you see in their work, DED? I've never picked up the patterns.
Moroseness, negativity, violence, destruction, self-destruction, self-absorption, indulgence, alienation. That's not an all-inclusive list.
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Old 03-13-2011, 01:45 AM
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It seems.

Every time I watch a special on VH-1 about a band, almost every time you hear the term "tortured soul" or "personal demons" to describe the song writer(s).

I know an experienced producer, and one day he told every singer he's worked with either comes from a messed up back ground (inspiration) or is just so level headed they can let the music flow. In his opinion, there is no middle ground.
The thead about Joe Morello is a good contrast. He died at 82, giving us decades of great work and inspiration, in contrast to someone who dies of a drug overdose in their 20s or 30. Part of me laughs at the stupidity of it. Yet not many film makers seem interested in stories about people who live productive, stable lives.
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