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  #121  
Old 02-22-2011, 04:09 PM
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Default Re: HIP HOP

Quote:
Originally Posted by playItLikeThis View Post
From Billboards Hip Hop/R&B

I stopped at number 12. No point in beating a dead horse. We different standards of what filth is, and that's fine. Just don't try to pass this genre off as wholesome. And of course filth/raunch isn't limited to Hip Hop, its just far more prevalent in a higher percentage of songs.





I'll look for your link and listen to it.
Like I said, you CANNOT look at the hip hop billboards and expect to find good music up there (might be something decent up their every month or so). Honestly, I just looked at the top 50 and I don't know any of the songs up there because I don't listen to popular rap, mainly because it is BS.

I'll try to crank out half a dozen links in the next hour or so and we can critique some of the music. I'll try to post links to music that is child appropriate. Some of it will still have one or two curse words but the message of the lyrics will be way more meaningful than "Lollipop" by Lil Wayne. lol

And paistemage is right. A lot of the stuff on the top charts is basically hip hop music for the clubs. In my opinion, that was fine back in the early 2000's when Usher and Fifty cent were some of the only major rappers making popular club music. Now it's like, every new hip hop artist needs to come out with an album that can be played in the club.
People don't like having to look hard to find good music, I had to look for almost 6 months to find all of the conscious rappers that I listen to right now.

Last edited by Snare; 02-22-2011 at 04:20 PM.
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  #122  
Old 02-22-2011, 04:44 PM
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Default Re: HIP HOP

Snare is totally right and backs my point.

I know eminem, he is popular, and RECOVERY is his best album, EVER.

Past that, those charts are foreign to me.

MfDoom isn't on them.
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  #123  
Old 02-22-2011, 05:06 PM
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Default Re: HIP HOP

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5dk1P_638s This is "Thieves in the Night" by Mos Def and Talib Kweli.
It is about the true essence of black people, not what the outer appearance is.
Take note of the lines: "Not strong, only aggressive. Not free, only licensed. Not compassionate, only polite. Now who the nicest? Not good, but well behaved."
Also notice the jazz influence of the instrumental. Good music + thoughtful lyrics = superior rap music like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWnUV_ZQ3go This is "Respiration" by Mos Def and Talib Kweli ft Common. It is describing what New York is like, how the people live, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bG2NaeGOwk This is "Definition" by Mos Def and Talib Kweli. This is just a lyrical treat for rap listeners. This is one of those "fast rapping songs". Please read the lyrics along with the song. Think of it as your sheet music to a difficult piece of music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Qr5oKKP-M This is "Dear God 2.0" by The Roots ft Monsters of Folk.
There are no lyrics with this video but this one is slower so you can probably follow it without the lyrics. I advise you to watch the video while listening. This song is about A LOT of the evils of humanity right now and the evils of the music industry. Also notice that there is no cursing in this song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQNvKA0nL5Y This is "Ghetto Gospel" by Tupac. It samples Elton John's 1971 hit, "Indian Sunset". Tupac is pretty much begging for an end to street violence for the sake of the younger generation. He believes it is their fault that the current generation is so attracted to violence. The first verse is the most important. No cursing in this song either.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjcNtJrgH00 This is "Conflict Diamonds" by Lupe Fiasco. It is about how when we buy jewelry (diamonds) we are fueling genocide and child labor in Africa. There are a lot of historical references to people like Cecil Rhodes. He was probably one of the cruelest men in history. He owned the De Beers diamond company when the Europeans got to South Africa in the 1850's. He used to tell his men to cut off the hands of whoever they shot, to show that they didn't waste any ammunition. A lot of times, they would just cut of the hands of innocent people (often children) because they wanted to fire off a few rounds. (Just a small history lesson). The only curse word is an "F-bomb".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7TRczgjvLs This is "Hip Hop Saved My Life" by Lupe Fiasco. Lupe Fiasco's two albums are a fictional story and in this song it describes how his main character made it out of the ghetto. 1 dropping of the "a" word as far as profanity goes.

This is all that I'm going to post for right now. Anyone is free to give their thoughts on these songs.

Last edited by Snare; 02-22-2011 at 05:26 PM.
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  #124  
Old 02-22-2011, 05:29 PM
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Default Re: HIP HOP

Yeah mos def, either in black star or by himself is pretty amazing, I like the Eccentric album.

Tupac-What else can be said.

The roots- check the Album they did with John Legend.

Good examples of provocative stuff.
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  #125  
Old 02-22-2011, 05:40 PM
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Default Re: HIP HOP

Yeah I always liked those Lupe fiasco songs.
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  #126  
Old 02-22-2011, 05:52 PM
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Default Re: HIP HOP

Quote:
Originally Posted by paistemage View Post
Yeah mos def, either in black star or by himself is pretty amazing, I like the Eccentric album.

Tupac-What else can be said.

The roots- check the Album they did with John Legend.

Good examples of provocative stuff.
Thanks. I actually have an entire Youtube account dedicated to the best hip hop and amatuer drummers on Youtube. I feel like I'm responsible for promoting the genre. I was just arguing with someone on a classical music video about stereotyping hip hop. Suprisingly, everybody agreed.

I treat hip hop like I treat classical music.
The lyrics in hip hop = the notes and rhythms in classical music. If the rapper has to cuss every other word in all of his songs then he's a "grade 1 or 2" rapper. Rappers like Mos Def and Talib still cuss but they use a MASSIVE vocab, set of similes and metaphors, and abstract thought in their music. So they would have "grade 5 or 6" music. I think that's the best compare and contrast example that can use to describe it.
All the stuff on the top charts is grade 1 or 2 music that everyone can get.

Someone stated earlier that they don't see the appeal in rap. Well, I look for rap that requires me to analyze it. Lupe Fiasco uses historical references in a lot of his songs ("Hurt Me Soul" is my favorite). That appeals to me. If you guys liked the songs I just posted...well I have 100 more in my favorites list on my ipod and Youtube account. And I'd say about 1/4 of them are better or as good as the songs I posted. That's the appeal that I find in rap music.

Edit: I've been listening to that Roots and John Legend album since it came out. The "live in studio" versions of "Lil Ghetto Boy", "Hard Times" and "Can't Write Left Handed" are the best songs on the album as far as musicianship goes. You can find them on Youtube. Haven't seen anything like that since the 70's.

Last edited by Snare; 02-22-2011 at 06:49 PM.
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  #127  
Old 02-22-2011, 06:41 PM
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Default Re: HIP HOP

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Originally Posted by playItLikeThis View Post
Please back up your statements. I'm open to some examples you can provide.
I'll look for your link and listen to it.
There are links all over this thread, you may want to click on some of them.
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  #128  
Old 02-23-2011, 06:09 PM
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Default Re: HIP HOP

Yeah quest has great snare tone. He is the epitomy of patience, and just rocks it , all the time.
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  #129  
Old 02-23-2011, 06:44 PM
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Default Re: HIP HOP

The Roots, ATCQ, Blackalicious, Del The Funkee Homosapien, Jurassic 5, Sweat Shop Union, Typical Cats, Danger Doom, Cool Calm Pete, Surreal and the Sound Providers, People Under The Stairs, Aesop Rock.

These are all great rap artist with great beats!
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Last edited by StellarReign; 02-23-2011 at 06:46 PM. Reason: forgot Aesop Rock!!!!!!!!!
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  #130  
Old 02-24-2011, 12:13 AM
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Default Re: HIP HOP

dangerdoom, doom and madlib, and mfdoom doing anything. the album madvilliany is awesome.
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  #131  
Old 02-24-2011, 11:37 PM
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Default Re: HIP HOP

Oh yeah, this post is directed towards hip hop fans.
I wanted to help support a guy named Vinnie Dewayne. I'm serious, I am 100% POSITIVE that this guy has the potential to be a Lupe Fiasco or J Cole. Very talented, I thought he was a pro rapper when I first listened to these songs. He only has one mixtape but he is very talented.

Listen to these two songs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZxMm0feOT4 This one is called "Damn" (don't be turned off by the title. It's very "real")

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjjJr...eature=related This song is called Stray Bullet.
He's 19 right now, and tell me how many people can rap like this at that age? He's doing it from the viewpoint of someone that has a lot of life experience.
The instrumental is classical music with violins and such, with a hip hop beat on the drums.

He's from Portland, Oregon. A good rapper out of that state is extremely rare (I don't know of any) but he could put them on the map in the underground.

Suprisingly, I have more views on my own channel with no uploads than he does with an entire mixtape. That's like some crazy talented drummer not being able to find an audience to play for. The people that do listen to him will support him but he'll be wasted talent. If you are familiar with hip hop, support this guy, or take a listen to his mixtape.

Edit: This is the intro to the mixtape. Nice beat. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MraxQaKC2Aw
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  #132  
Old 02-24-2011, 11:52 PM
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Default Re: HIP HOP

@ snare Not bad at all, the strings on that "Stray Bullet" joint are nice.

You familiar with the Money Making Jam Boys at all?
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  #133  
Old 02-25-2011, 12:00 AM
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Not familiar with them (looking forward to a video). Should I check them out?
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  #134  
Old 02-25-2011, 12:08 AM
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Yessssirrrrr. Black Thought, Dice Raw, STS, P.O.R.N, and Truck North. The link below should give you a healthy amount of material.

The Toca Tuesday freestyle is absurd.

http://nahright.com/news/index.php?s...aking+jam+boys
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  #135  
Old 02-25-2011, 12:14 AM
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Default Re: HIP HOP

Quote:
Originally Posted by RollingStone000 View Post
Yessssirrrrr. Black Thought, Dice Raw, STS, P.O.R.N, and Truck North. The link below should give you a healthy amount of material.

The Toca Tuesday freestyle is absurd.

http://nahright.com/news/index.php?s...aking+jam+boys
Holy crap, my ears are blowing up (in the good way)! Most of those guys were in the "How I Got Over" album. All of them are killing it. And uhhh...could you tell me which order they are rapping in? lol I'm only familar with Black Thought and Dice Raw. Haven't listened to enough of the others.

Edit: *bows down to Black Thought* Damn. That last verse was craaazzzy.
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  #136  
Old 02-25-2011, 12:36 AM
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I believe its Black Thought, then Truck North, P.O.R.N, STS (who is my favorite young'n right now), and then Black again. I don't think I heard Dice at all, then again he may have been doing the beat on it.

Seriously though, cop that The Prestige mixtape, it's full of bangers man.
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  #137  
Old 02-25-2011, 04:26 AM
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Default Re: HIP HOP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snare View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5dk1P_638s This is "Thieves in the Night" by Mos Def and Talib Kweli.
-> Rhythm section was decent. Not so much the lyrics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snare View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWnUV_ZQ3go This is "Respiration" by Mos Def and Talib Kweli ft Common.
-> Downer song, language, music is unchanging; it goes nowhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snare View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bG2NaeGOwk This is "Definition" by Mos Def and Talib Kweli.
-> Again with the language!! Not a song I want my daughter to hear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snare View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Qr5oKKP-M This is "Dear God 2.0" by The Roots ft Monsters of Folk.
-> Instrumentation had a nice groove. Don't agree with his perception of events.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snare View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQNvKA0nL5Y This is "Ghetto Gospel" by Tupac.
-> Too much wallowing in despair. I find the use of 'Ghetto Gospel' peculiar. Gospel means the Good News (of Jesus Christ). What good news is there about the ghetto?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Snare View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjcNtJrgH00 This is "Conflict Diamonds" by Lupe Fiasco.
-> I'll give credit for subject matter. Too much: "yeah", "uh-huh", "know what I'm sayin" and the like. Also a bit of cursing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Snare View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7TRczgjvLs This is "Hip Hop Saved My Life" by Lupe Fiasco.
Hurt Me Soul -> I'll give credit for the subject matter, but I don't agree with his assessment on world events.

Game Theory -> Too much thug for me.

I've listened to all your links and a good portion of the names that were dropped by others in this thread. Yes, there are some songs that don't have cursing and a couple were OK, but overall there is still an issue with the language used.

The subject matter doesn't help either. This genre is made for a certain population. I don't believe that population is served well by listening to the messages presented in these songs. There's a primary current of victim hood that's presupposed in the genre. That leads to a string of life complaints but no solutions. Social conscientiousness songs are fine, but I prefer those that aren't downers.
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  #138  
Old 02-27-2011, 02:58 AM
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Default Re: HIP HOP

Such a sick video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9BB09uoAlk

Black thought is sick in this
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  #139  
Old 02-27-2011, 03:47 PM
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Default Re: HIP HOP

Well..yes an no. I can't stomach a lot of the urban secular stuff, but I rather like artists like Lecrae, Tedashi, Trip Lee..I guess these artists would be urban style rap moreso.

I do like playing me some break beats though.. Get behind the message or not.. These boyz are takin it to the streets baby!!!

Lecrae ~ Don't waste your life..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RWEl...eature=related
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  #140  
Old 02-27-2011, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hum_5TUhAOs

Now that is music. Great sound, great percussion section, great drummer, great brass section. Stage performance and stage presence. No one grabbed their crotch or took off their shirt. You could understand the lyrics. If you weren't tapping your feet or doing the chair dance then you have no soul or rhythm. Let's see, we need a band for the prom. Ummm, Earth wind and Fire, or Fitty Cent, or maybe, Biggy Smalls, or maybe Eminem. Let me get back to you. As if.
So your saying the best type of music is music that would be fit for prom?

Anyway, many of the more popular rappers of today bring a lot of energy on stage and are a stage presence. People wouldn't go to see eminem in concert if all they did was watch him stand there and rap.

It's one thing to dislike hip hop but it's another thing to say it's not music. Just because hip hop is different from other genres of music doesn't mean it's not music. That's just being narrow minded.
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  #141  
Old 02-27-2011, 09:03 PM
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playItLikeThis what I can take from your post is that you would probably like the Roots stuff. They have more "uplifting" songs like "The Fire" or "Wake Up".


Quote:
Originally Posted by playItLikeThis View Post
I don't like rap for the following reasons:

1. One bar of music repeated for 3 1/2- 4 minutes. Ususally with some ear-degrading "sound effect" played throughout the whole song.
2. Filthy lyrics.
3. Encourages illiteracy. Fifty Cent/Fitty Cent?
4. Is now more about a culture that is detrimental to a large portion of people who listen to it.
5. Live performances: A bunch of shirtless tatooed dudes hopping around and yelling "lyrics" into the mic which can't be understood.
6. Musicians? They don't need no stinking musicians!
7. Musically flat. No changes in mood, time signature, key. No bridge, climax. Just flat line loud.

That said, there are a few older song I like, such as rapper's delight, walk this way (crossover) , bust a move. Warren G. had a song I liked about 7 years ago but I can't remember the title.
In response to this post though, wouldn't you say that most of those links did not meet the criteria you posted? I was trying to show you that your perception of rap was generalized.

Yes, there was some language. I think it's because of my age (16) that I can bypass the language thing. I filter out the vulgarity so I don't ignore the message the song is trying to convey. I think not listening to music because of that, limits your opportunity to learn.

i.e In Conflict Diamonds:
"Cecil Rhodes sold war and genocide
To the countryside just to get his shine on!
I fear what De Beers and his peers use to do, before the world really knew, just to get their "mine" on!
Making paper with slave labour and hittin little kids with life time bids making em cut and shine stones.
Inflating the price and making em look nice and i wasnt thinking twice when i was putting mine on."

Rap from someone like Lupe Fiasco needs to be analyzed like poetry or literature to be understood because of all the references to historic events, similes, metaphors, and etc he uses in his music. THAT makes me smarter because it causes me to research the material of the songs so I can understand what he is talking about. And it also shows that the rapper is educated.

I can understand why you (and me) wouldn't have a child listening to it. But the lyricism in those songs does not promote illiteracy, and they weren't tatooed or anything and walking around without shirts on while performing. I think it's also worth mentioning that if you listen to some of their live performances, they substitute the language out based on the venue they are performing at. If they are at a club in the city, they keep everything. If they are performing for an award or on something like "Austin City Limits"(it's recorded live on tv) they are very professional and keep the vulgarity to a minimum (no f bombs, "n" words, etc).

In one of Lupe Fiasco's other songs called "He Say, She Say" he talks about how fathers aren't there for their kids and basically tells them that they should be. I don't think that particular song is detrimental to the listeners. Unfortunately, there are not many listeners of songs like that because nobody wants to listen to a song about a mother and her child chewing out the father for not taking care of his family.

Here is what I think: mainstream glorifies the ghetto. Underground (or anything other than the top 100) realistically portrays it in songs like "He Say, She Say".

You are correct in this aspect though, there are WAY too many mainstream rappers glorifying the ghetto. It is not a good thing. There are a bunch of middle class kids, like the ones in my school, who think its cool. They are the ones that hip hop is negatively influencing because they aren't familiar with the culture. I have family in bad areas like that so I don't glorify it or think it is cool. With a genre like this, you need to be mature to listen to it. And not just because of how explicit it is, but because people mimic or favor what they hear in the music. You need to know who you are when you start listening to rap. Most teenagers don't. Fortunately, I did when I began really listening to it about a year ago. I don't try to imitate the rappers like some people do because they think it sounds cool. I take info from rap, I don't let it absorb me.

As for the tone of the songs, you are right. "Dear God 2.0" is my definition of a 5 star song. It had a nice groove, it had good lyrics, it was socially conscious, and was relevant to today's issues. There is a mindset of a victim because that is the background of the artists. Having been to the ghetto, I can say that you feel like a victim there. They come from rough areas and just the general difference in atmosphere between there and the burbs is huge. If they want to rap about the opportunities they didn't have or all the negative things going on because it is an urgent issue to them, then they are justified in doing so. It's amazing that they are as smart and fluent/tactful with words as they are. Personally, I find that appealing. It is more interesting to listen to people from those settings that have street and book smarts, than your average suburbanite who came from the same background as me.
That said, they use their ability of rap to address issues. They don't solve them, they just say, "Hey, this is what's going on. That's a problem. Just letting you know" and people like us are the ones who decide whether or not to do something about it.

My final take:
1. It depends. In the more mainstream music the bars of music are more likely to be looped with some sound effects.
2. With some guys the vulgarity is insane and unnecessary. With others, it is used to convey emotion and censored out when necessary.
3. I can name a good number of rappers who are VERY literate and show it in their music. 50 cent isn't one of them.
4. Mainstream nowadays is negative so it is detrimental. But there is hip hop music out there that is not demeaning to culture.
5. Live performances: There are millions of rappers. You can find a lot of them doing "open mics" just sitting on a stool or freestyling on the street. They are clothed. Even some of the people I listed jump around a little bit on stage but if they don't have a band backing them up, they better be doing something other than sitting down while rapping.
6. The guys I listed tend to have musicians backing them up.
7. It varies. Some stuff can be musically flat, some have an orchestra or a band playing.

If people can't tell by now, I don't like that much mainstream hip hop. I think it is the ugly mask that everyone can see and it does not do justice to the other 90% of hip hop.

Last edited by Snare; 02-27-2011 at 09:34 PM.
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