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  #41  
Old 02-11-2011, 09:12 PM
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Default Re: HIP HOP

The only hip-hop I'll listen to is The Roots, Lupe Fiasco and a few others. The reason is this

The money/women/cars/Gangsta thing has been beaten to death. I don't care about those things, I care about drumming/running/cooking/reading. Obviously, I'm not the target audience. Conversely, I hate, and I want to absorb all that the word hate can encompess here, heavy metal music like Slipknot. It's not fair to mention just them, but they're all I know of off the top of my head. I hate music that is just bitching and moaning about everything from "mom and dad were mean to me" or "I'm weird and nobody understands me" and so on.
But! I do like my aforementioned artists because they're just that. Artists. Using clever word play and phrasing, they also speak about modern politics and sociological climate. I can dig that.
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Old 02-11-2011, 09:16 PM
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Default Re: HIP HOP

music speaks to who it speaks to.

I personally LOVE hip hop. Also, rimsky korsakov, strauss, slayer, and bjork.

I dont expect people to automatically like it.

it doesnt bother me if they dont.
there is musical merit there, it does have the essential elements of music, rhythmn, meldoy and harmony.

it isnt for everybody. fine. steppenwolf wasnt for everybody in there day.

neither was cab calloway
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  #43  
Old 02-11-2011, 09:36 PM
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Default Re: HIP HOP

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Originally Posted by paistemage View Post
music speaks to who it speaks to.

I personally LOVE hip hop. Also, rimsky korsakov, strauss, slayer, and bjork.

I dont expect people to automatically like it.

it doesnt bother me if they dont.
there is musical merit there, it does have the essential elements of music, rhythmn, meldoy and harmony.

it isnt for everybody. fine. steppenwolf wasnt for everybody in there day.

neither was cab calloway


"I mean Led Zeppelin didn't write tunes everybody liked. They left that to the Bee Gees."
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  #44  
Old 02-11-2011, 10:34 PM
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Default Re: HIP HOP

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Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD View Post
Although I like the old school guys more than the current batch, I still find it interesting that so many continue to diss this stuff with the same 30 year old insults. Sure you can like ot hate anything you want, but I think it's silly to continue to wear out the illiteracy angle when a lot of these guys are some of the most literate people I know.

I have no rouble with the literacy part. I'm sure they can sit down and write or collaborate with others to write lyrics, but when they sing it I can't understand it. Call it ebonics or whatever but they are not pronouncing the words they have written down. There are the hand gestures that are just comical. Left hand out if front with the fingers all curled but the thumb and little finger, or grabbing the crotch. Micorphone in the right hand holding it parallel to the ground. Everyone of them does this same thing. there is no variety. How am I supposed to like something I can't stand to watch or listen to. The original question was dyu all like it or ????? My answer is no.
Fair enoungh GRUNTERSDAD. You're right, that was the OP's question. Like Larry inferred...different strokes for different folks.
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  #45  
Old 02-11-2011, 11:16 PM
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Default Re: HIP HOP

I know there is a talent amongst hip hop artists, and many of them are a lot deeper then they seem on face value (Die Antwoord pops to mind), the actual lack of music behind most of it is what bothers me.

I like poetry, and I admit that a lot of rap can be quite poetic, especially when taken in context. Some of it however is plain retarded; I've heard more intelligent slurring and cussing in the local pub, and I live in a blue collar part of Melbourne.

The last thing I'd consider hip hop I enjoyed was One Day As A Lion, largely due to the fact there are a lot of drum leads.
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  #46  
Old 02-12-2011, 05:44 PM
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Default Re: HIP HOP

There's some great hip-hop music. But unless you seek it out, you've probably not heard a lot of it. Hip-hop is like any other musical genre in that you can't judge it by only listening to the hits. The stuff that gets airplay doesn't represent the best of hip-hop any more than top-40 represents the best of rock music.

I do think it's kind of funny when drummers cite the absence of melody as the reason they don't like hip-hop. :)
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  #47  
Old 02-12-2011, 05:57 PM
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Default Re: HIP HOP

I think that is a main reason to play the drums. To play along with the melody. To interpret the melody and and make drum parts that fit. None of us, I dare say, would play drums very long, if all we did was sit and play beats while someone read poetry. That goes back to the silly days of beatniks playing the bongos while someone read poetry. A hollywood stereotype for sure, but a very boring method of playing the drums. That is how I see Rap. If the best stuff is not the most popular stuff or the stuff getting air, time then the genre is failing in promoting itself.
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  #48  
Old 02-12-2011, 07:11 PM
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Not all metal is melodic, I think there is a difference between a simple beat and doing something fun. Jon Theodores drumming in One Day As A Lion is energetic and captivating, even though there is no real melody to the music, only rhythmic synths with rap vocals.

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Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD View Post
I think that is a main reason to play the drums. To play along with the melody. To interpret the melody and and make drum parts that fit. None of us, I dare say, would play drums very long, if all we did was sit and play beats while someone read poetry. That goes back to the silly days of beatniks playing the bongos while someone read poetry. A hollywood stereotype for sure, but a very boring method of playing the drums. That is how I see Rap. If the best stuff is not the most popular stuff or the stuff getting air, time then the genre is failing in promoting itself.
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Old 02-12-2011, 07:18 PM
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And for me metal is put in the same bin as rap.
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  #50  
Old 02-12-2011, 07:42 PM
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Default Re: HIP HOP

The thing that bothers me the most about people hating hip hop is that they think it's "repetitive"
I know a lot of people that think this, but they seem to think that genres like classic rock aren't repetitive. Playing four chords over someone screaming about nothing and then playing a guitar riff is pretty "repetitive" as well.

Here's an interesting interview with Christian McBride about Hip Hop.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyvg0Ze0P2M

Last edited by Drums101; 02-12-2011 at 07:55 PM.
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  #51  
Old 02-12-2011, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by OrangeAgent27 View Post
The only hip-hop I'll listen to is The Roots, Lupe Fiasco and a few others. The reason is this

The money/women/cars/Gangsta thing has been beaten to death. I don't care about those things, I care about drumming/running/cooking/reading. Obviously, I'm not the target audience. Conversely, I hate, and I want to absorb all that the word hate can encompess here, heavy metal music like Slipknot. It's not fair to mention just them, but they're all I know of off the top of my head. I hate music that is just bitching and moaning about everything from "mom and dad were mean to me" or "I'm weird and nobody understands me" and so on.
But! I do like my aforementioned artists because they're just that. Artists. Using clever word play and phrasing, they also speak about modern politics and sociological climate. I can dig that.
I completely agree with you. The Roots were the reason I got into hip hop when their "How I Got Over" album came out this past June and I really started searching for it.
I'm 16 (going on 17) and started playing the drums at 11 years old. I was in concert band. I grew up around rap music but I was never able to be like,"Oh, that track is hot". I just thought mainstream was tolerable but didn't care for it. I was never really into music besides playing it.

So for people who don't like rap or didn't grow up around it, I understand where you're coming from. The stuff you are hearing is mainstream rap. As a musician, I can honestly say that the chances of you finding something that you like in the mainstream is very slim if you already don't like the genre. You have to look for it.

The best comparison I can make of this is if, for example, someone came on this forum and said Travis Barker was the best drummer he'd ever seen and then you show him a Tony Royster video. Royster plays for Jay Z but that guy can play any style of drumming out there. Travis Barker isn't the worst drummer alive but to a forum like us, he's not even in our top 100 (or 500 personally for me).

Jay Electronica, Mos Def and Talib Kweli (BlackStar), Lupe Fiasco, Blu, Black Thought and the Roots, Immortal Technique, Cunninglinguists (their instrumental in "Mic Like A Memory" appeals to people who want a good melody), NaS, and J Cole are all good rappers that use clever lyrics, metaphors, etc in their music. They are all (except for J Cole who is more mainstream) very socially conscious and more intellectual with their music.

A lot of people say that they just want to listen to something catchy with a nice beat and that's fine. But for people looking at Rap from the outside, they haven't seen the real art of rap. Just like how I didn't know any good drummers before coming to this site, you seek out people who are familiar with every facet of Rap. Those guys can give you an honest answer/recomendation of someone who you could at least appreciate.
If anybody needs recommendations for some goods songs by any of these rappers, just ask or PM me.

Some of the most intelligent and literate people that I've listened to are comedians and rappers.

Edit: OrangeAgent27, to you specifically since you seem to like the same rappers I do, I suggest checking out the list of rappers I mentioned. I'm a hardcore Roots and Lupe Fiasco fan. Listened to all of Lupe's albums, including his mixtapes. I especially think that you would like Blu. I think that he is actually better than Lupe when it comes to the storytelling in his rapping. And in some of his better songs, his flow is almost as good as Lupe's.
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  #52  
Old 02-12-2011, 08:58 PM
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Hip-hop is like any other musical genre in that you can't judge it by only listening to the hits.
Ice T never got in the charts
NWA didn't get on Top Of The Pops
Public Enemy couldn't get on prime time TV.



All the hip hop I learnt about, I got from my cousin and it was old-school.


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  #53  
Old 02-12-2011, 10:17 PM
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And for me metal is put in the same bin as rap.
I can't even begin to understand that view when it is the broadest genre in existence.

There are metal bands without drums, bands that don't use guitars, tons of music without vocals, every vocal style under the sun, orchestral music, music with violins, with brass or woodwind leads, sub 10 bpm, over 300bpm.... it goes on and on.

I know commercial rock music heavier then a lot of metal and most of the heaviest music I've ever heard tends to be more dark ambiance/noise/ebm, such as cold meat industries, which is certainly not metal, so that can't even be used as an argument against all metal.
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Old 02-12-2011, 11:11 PM
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Industrial is heavier than metal, it's designed to be.


I haven't heard any mainstream rock that's heavier than Morbid Angel, Vader, Berzerker... tho'
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  #55  
Old 02-13-2011, 12:46 AM
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Industrial is heavier than metal, it's designed to be.


I haven't heard any mainstream rock that's heavier than Morbid Angel, Vader, Berzerker... tho'
Neither have I, but not all metal is death metal.
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  #56  
Old 02-13-2011, 03:06 AM
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If the best stuff is not the most popular stuff or the stuff getting air, time then the genre is failing in promoting itself.
I don't think promotion has much to do with it. Marketing a pop star has to do with a lot more than talent and quality. How many of us would say the best rock songs are the ones that get the most airplay?
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Old 02-13-2011, 03:46 AM
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Yesterday I was hanging out with a young rello, who is getting interested in doing mixes. He's very keen on hip hop and referred to a particular style he likes best but I forgot the name (I can't keep up with all the micro genres these days).

It was fascinating watching him with his laptop, trying different ways mixing and matching things around in Traktor and trying to make sense of FL Studio. In the late 80s I did a some home recording with sequencers and drum machines on a Portastudio. Watching him do that stuff (and our engineer with Protools for that matter) made me think of how much I would have loved that level of control in the old days.

Digital is amazing and I can understand the attraction. Personally, I'd like equal emphasis put on the compositional side but *shrugs*. In spirit I see a lot of hip hop and techno as a continuation of the garage band ethos where traditional musical skills are largely replaced by sheer desire to create and express (and in the case of new music, tech smarts). I think there will always be a side to the musical scene that moves in that direction, just as another side will push the boundaries towards greater mastery. And you get a masterful player like Jojo with his "reverse engineering" ... the hip hop drummers I've seen have all been skilled players, even if the style isn't for me.

Grandmaster Flash's The Message blew me away with its freshness and passion when it first came out. But when it comes to hip hop I kind of stopped there :) ... although I like the passion and catchiness of Loose Yourself.

In the end, if we don't enjoy certain styles it's easy enough to change the channel or just put on something that floats your boat. I certainly wouldn't expect youth culture to be catering for my retro tastes and I'd be a bit disappointed in them if they did.
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Old 02-13-2011, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Pollyanna View Post
Yesterday I was hanging out with a young rello, who is getting interested in doing mixes. He's very keen on hip hop and referred to a particular style he likes best but I forgot the name (I can't keep up with all the micro genres these days).

It was fascinating watching him with his laptop, trying different ways mixing and matching things around in Traktor and trying to make sense of FL Studio. In the late 80s I did a some home recording with sequencers and drum machines on a Portastudio. Watching him do that stuff (and our engineer with Protools for that matter) made me think of how much I would have loved that level of control in the old days.

Digital is amazing and I can understand the attraction. Personally, I'd like equal emphasis put on the compositional side but *shrugs*. In spirit I see a lot of hip hop and techno as a continuation of the garage band ethos where traditional musical skills are largely replaced by sheer desire to create and express (and in the case of new music, tech smarts). I think there will always be a side to the musical scene that moves in that direction, just as another side will push the boundaries towards greater mastery. And you get a masterful player like Jojo with his "reverse engineering" ... the hip hop drummers I've seen have all been skilled players, even if the style isn't for me.

Grandmaster Flash's The Message blew me away with its freshness and passion when it first came out. But when it comes to hip hop I kind of stopped there :) ... although I like the passion and catchiness of Loose Yourself.

In the end, if we don't enjoy certain styles it's easy enough to change the channel or just put on something that floats your boat. I certainly wouldn't expect youth culture to be catering for my retro tastes and I'd be a bit disappointed in them if they did.
I respect a lot of these newer technologies but I've never been able to get my arms around doing the mixes this way. When I first started out with this in 2007 /with my old Stanton turntables/ I just felt there was something cool about holding the LPs, scratching and doing it all by hand. As a drummer there was a certain physicality to all that I felt was missing with the digital way. I put these out on youtube back then.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30d_C...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dOi_4Gebnc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUdJq...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oSmS...eature=related

This thread has got me thinking about how I need to get serious about this again. I don't think I've moved forward with this for at least a couple of years. It's like my mallet playing. It just sits there.
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Old 02-13-2011, 01:47 PM
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I respect a lot of these newer technologies but I've never been able to get my arms around doing the mixes this way. When I first started out with this in 2007 /with my old Stanton turntables/ I just felt there was something cool about holding the LPs, scratching and doing it all by hand. As a drummer there was a certain physicality to all that I felt was missing with the digital way. I put these out on youtube back then.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30d_C...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dOi_4Gebnc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUdJq...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oSmS...eature=related

This thread has got me thinking about how I need to get serious about this again. I don't think I've moved forward with this for at least a couple of years. It's like my mallet playing. It just sits there.
I get that. Your roots are in the physical act of playing music and you follow your inclinations. My young bud doesn't have those roots, apart from a year of piano lessons years ago (which he sadly dropped) so he's gravitated to other ways that suit him ... and it fits in his small room. I saw him scratching in time using the laptop's finger pad so there's a little bit of physicality.

Just curious about an aspect of scratching. I used to have hundreds of vinyl records so when I first saw people scratching I was horrified, thinking about the pops and crackles it must cause. How long do the records last? The worst thing I ever did to a record was one time I was playing and hit a cymbal clumsily, and it was kind of like Darth Vader in Revenge of the Sith - [slow motion] noooooooooo! - as I watched the cymbal stand topple over on to a record (Night at the Opera) that I'd not put away ... put a big crack in it :(

Great scratching BTW, especially the last one. I like the inventiveness in choosing the snippets and placing them.
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Old 02-13-2011, 02:20 PM
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Just curious about an aspect of scratching. I used to have hundreds of vinyl records so when I first saw people scratching I was horrified, thinking about the pops and crackles it must cause. How long do the records last? The worst thing I ever did to a record was one time I was playing and hit a cymbal clumsily, and it was kind of like Darth Vader in Revenge of the Sith - [slow motion] noooooooooo! - as I watched the cymbal stand topple over on to a record (Night at the Opera) that I'd not put away ... put a big crack in it :(
Most of the LPs I buy for hip hop mixes are made special meaning they're 99% scratch proof and they're made especially for Djs. You pay a little more for them. But yeah I caused quite an uproar when my first mix got a lot of hits and all those jazz guys saw me butchering that Love Supreme album which WAS NOT scratch proof. It was also my Dad's record, and he knew nothing of it until he saw the youtube track a month or so later. Needless to say I had to go to Detroit to one of those LP collectibles places and spend really good money to replace the LP with another BRAND NEW LP. He wasn't accepting a CD. He wanted his LP. After that I left Dad's records alone lol.
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Old 02-13-2011, 02:41 PM
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Most of the LPs I buy for hip hop mixes are made special meaning they're 99% scratch proof and they're made especially for Djs. You pay a little more for them.
That's interesting. Makes sense. I would have loved scratch proof LPs *sigh*. The prices are steep. I just checked out a site ... $89


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But yeah I caused quite an uproar when my first mix got a lot of hits and all those jazz guys saw me butchering that Love Supreme album which WAS NOT scratch proof. It was also my Dad's record, and he knew nothing of it until he saw the youtube track a month or so later. Needless to say I had to go to Detroit to one of those LP collectibles places and spend really good money to replace the LP with another BRAND NEW LP. He wasn't accepting a CD. He wanted his LP. After that I left Dad's records alone lol.
lol - that was adventurous! When your Dad bought it, it was probably only $3. They're like gold now. Damn, if I'd known I could have donated Mum's horrible Nana Mouskouri LP to the cause - no loss there. Funky scratch Greek MOR - yeeha :)
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Old 02-13-2011, 03:03 PM
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Most of the LPs I buy for hip hop mixes are made special meaning they're 99% scratch proof and they're made especially for Djs. You pay a little more for them. But yeah I caused quite an uproar when my first mix got a lot of hits and all those jazz guys saw me butchering that Love Supreme album which WAS NOT scratch proof. It was also my Dad's record, and he knew nothing of it until he saw the youtube track a month or so later. Needless to say I had to go to Detroit to one of those LP collectibles places and spend really good money to replace the LP with another BRAND NEW LP. He wasn't accepting a CD. He wanted his LP. After that I left Dad's records alone lol.
Matt, those clips sound great. Nice work!

I love the story. Made me laugh.
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Old 02-13-2011, 10:50 PM
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Neither have I, but not all metal is death metal.
Thanks for telling me that, I had no idea... </sarcasm>

but FYI, Beserker started out as an industrial solo project.

Also, we didn't say metal, we said "mainstream rock"...
Anything "metal" that's lighter than Bon Jovi isn't metal in the first place.

Venom
Onslaught
Slayer
Megadeth
Carcass
Pantera
Motorhead
Saxon
Iron Maiden
White Zombie



I'd love to see them get out-volumed by Rhianna or any chart bothering crap (which really, is where "Mainstream rock" goes)


You do have a point about EBM tho'
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Old 02-13-2011, 11:35 PM
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Thanks for telling me that, I had no idea... </sarcasm>
I wasn't being condescending.

Quote:

but FYI, Beserker started out as an industrial solo project.
I know I'm from Melbourne.

Quote:

Also, we didn't say metal, we said "mainstream rock"...
Anything "metal" that's lighter than Bon Jovi isn't metal in the first place.
There are different degrees of heaviness, a lot of more folk/doom/post metal stuff isn't as abrasive as say, Linkin Park.

The guys over at archives have great fun arguing this, they don't consider Grindcore metal but they do consider Sunn metal, who have no drums and create what is essentially ambiance with metal guitars.

My point was, not all metal is Pantera or Deicide, that is why I dislike people pigeon holing it.

Genres are an evil thing.
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Old 02-14-2011, 02:04 AM
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I think Madlib is a genius along with Dilla and Doom. Dilla's Donuts album never ceases to become tiring. The Unseen is one of the most interesting albums I've listened to and Madvilliany was just a masterpiece.
Spot on. Dilla for me is highly influential, as well as Madlib. Madlib`s Medicine Shows are so inspirational, his Shades Of Blue kisses me as an addicted to the sound of jazz culture. His Beat Konducta series....masterpieces. Oh and Mind Fusion. I couldn`t ever stop.....Liberation with Talib Kweli....

As for Dilla...no words, just enjoying that vibe.

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Old 02-14-2011, 03:17 AM
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Spot on. Dilla for me is highly influential, as well as Madlib. Madlib`s Medicine Shows are so inspirational, his Shades Of Blue kisses me as an addicted to the sound of jazz culture. His Beat Konducta series....masterpieces. Oh and Mind Fusion. I couldn`t ever stop.....Liberation with Talib Kweli....

As for Dilla...no words, just enjoying that vibe.

Karl
I'm into Madlib as well. They do sort of pull on the jazz strings don't they?

This sidebar discussion about metal is interesting to me too. I've always found it amazing how their hardcore aficianados pigeonhole the genres with the same ferocity of the jazz aficiandos. You would have thought they would have learned from the jazz crowd that flailing away at what everybody thinks is and isn't only alienates your scene and dooms your stuff to underground status. Despite the extroidinary differences in the music itself, the only difference between the mindsets of jazz and metal lover /not always the musicians/ is that the metal guys think the jazz guys are after them too whereas the jazz crowd doesn't care what the metal guys think of them. IMO this is a recipe for failure. I've never been any particular fan of the metal stuff of any genre or classification, but I certainly respect those drummers. There's obviously some serious talent there, so it's ashame to see the metal self destruct button always on.
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Old 02-14-2011, 04:05 AM
SVEdrummer SVEdrummer is offline
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Default Re: HIP HOP

I really don't understand why so many people hate hip-hop and rap. Can you understand some of them? No. Why? Because it's their technique, just as Buddy Rich drummed fast, they spit lyrics fast. And everybody loves Buddy.

Also, some other person mentioned how they hated a certain band because of what they "think" the band is about. I honestly HATE it when a person doesn't like something based on the facts that he or she "think" a band or genre is something when in reality, he or she has no idea what the band/genre is about. I thought I would dislike spinach when I was younger because I always heard it was nasty and disgusting, when in reality, I love spinach now.

I can understand if someone doesn't like hip hop or rap, but at least listen to some of it. Some rappers are just horrible, I agree. But there are some (Talib, Mos Def, older Eminem) that just take hip hop and make it them. And they are GOOD at it.
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Old 02-14-2011, 07:05 AM
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Default Re: HIP HOP

I like a good hip hop song, and I like to dance and used to even have 12-inch subs in my trunk. Iím mid-thirties now though, and although I still listen to some, itís the stuff I grew up with like 2pac or Eazy-E.

What I do NOT like, is that every time someone says they enjoy rap on the internet, you have to deal with a post like that. So, logically many just assume that rap/hip hop is largely for morons and go about their way.

It was mentioned earlier that the whole gangsta thing has been beaten to death, and I totally agree! Rap is a special kind of music. Country largely deals with liquor/love/back roads, hard rock and rock deal with love, fast cars and liquor (many times) and rap deals with guns, violence, rape, gangs, prison and the like. So odd haha. what happened to the sir mix a lots and the DJ Jazzy Jeffs who had really good rap tunes without all the meaningless drivel?

Sigh.
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Old 02-14-2011, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Frost View Post
There are different degrees of heaviness, a lot of more folk/doom/post metal stuff isn't as abrasive as say, Linkin Park.
Which is funny as I don't find Linkin Park "abrasive" at all.

SunnO))) are a "Drone Doom" band, just noise to me not the same as Cathedral or Crowbar who really are a heavy band (in all senses of the word back in the 1990's) or Down...
They might be "heavy" but they're more "heavy" to a full on doom fanboy than to a metalhead.

Quote:
My point was, not all metal is Pantera or Deicide, that is why I dislike people pigeon holing it.
Pantera weren't death metal, which was your point. </pedantics>

I'm fully aware of what metal is, as much as I love a few other styles, I live for metal.
It's part of my DNA, it's what gets me up in the morning (that an a sudden urge to pi**)
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Old 02-14-2011, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Hellwyck View Post
It's part of my DNA, it's what gets me up in the morning (that an a sudden urge to pi**)
** 3.14159 !
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Old 02-14-2011, 08:59 PM
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Default Re: HIP HOP

For you Madlib fans, check out Stones Throw records (http://www.stonesthrow.com/). It's run by Peanut Butter Wolf (a GREAT producer) and they're constantly putting out new stuff from Madlib and Oh No (Mad's cousin I think) plus a lot of other great djs and producers.

Regarding the arrangement/melody aspect of hip hop. One of the greatest beats from start to finish in my opinion is on Jay-Z's "Show Me What You Got". It was produced by Just Blaze (one of the all time greats) and is the first time Supertramp has ever let anyone use their music for sample purposes (and they still don't let anyone use their stuff). As a matter of fact, the song got leaked on the radio while they were trying to negotiate the use of the sample. The song blew up immediately, Supertramp threw a big fit, long story short Just Blaze had to pay out his backside so they could clear the song. It's a shame too, he didn't even leak the song, it was one of the cats working in his studio.

And so for your listening pleasure, "Show Me What You Got" live. Tony Royster's drumming on it, and completely merc'd the joint. As a matter of fact you see the Jigga just standing off to the side of the kit enamored with what Tony's doing. Definitely worth the watch, the drums come in pretty clearly, although the video is pix-elated.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jcx3BcTyXlc
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Old 02-14-2011, 09:50 PM
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** 3.14159!
You're the only person who didn't think

"Hey, Hellwyck gets out of bed to take a is a mathematical constant whose value is the ratio of any circle's circumference to its diameter in the Euclidean plane"

Everyone else realised the two asterisk denoted missing letters...







Not a bad thing to type tho' 8/10
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Old 02-14-2011, 11:02 PM
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Honestly it would keep me up at night if I really thought about it. In fact, all irrational numbers are terrifying, but very real.
It was just a joke...
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  #74  
Old 02-14-2011, 11:12 PM
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GRUNTERSDAD GRUNTERSDAD is offline
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Default Re: HIP HOP

what happened to the sir mix a lots and the DJ Jazzy Jeffs who had really good rap tunes without all the meaningless drivel?

It went the way of POP music which was fun to dance to and yet full of drivel. People like to dance

And this from MSNBC.:

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/415841...entertainment/
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Old 02-14-2011, 11:38 PM
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Default Re: HIP HOP

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Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD View Post
What a lame article. You could say the same exact thing about many different musical styles that have never won for record or song of the year.

The winner is almost always pop.
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Old 02-14-2011, 11:44 PM
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Pocket-full-of-gold Pocket-full-of-gold is offline
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Not a bad thing to type tho' 8/10
Deserves more than an 8.....I thought it was a little funnier than that.

I'm calling a solid 9.
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Old 02-14-2011, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by mattsmith View Post
This sidebar discussion about metal is interesting to me too. I've always found it amazing how their hardcore aficianados pigeonhole the genres with the same ferocity of the jazz aficiandos. You would have thought they would have learned from the jazz crowd that flailing away at what everybody thinks is and isn't only alienates your scene and dooms your stuff to underground status. Despite the extroidinary differences in the music itself, the only difference between the mindsets of jazz and metal lover /not always the musicians/ is that the metal guys think the jazz guys are after them too whereas the jazz crowd doesn't care what the metal guys think of them. IMO this is a recipe for failure. I've never been any particular fan of the metal stuff of any genre or classification, but I certainly respect those drummers. There's obviously some serious talent there, so it's ashame to see the metal self destruct button always on.
Agreed.

It never makes sense that people will debate endlessly on online if a band is metalcore or melodic death metal or whatever term they feel like using, when any good band probably embraces 3 or 4 different sub-genres over the course of an album. Few bands really just do ONE thing and one thing only.

Do they have these same silly debates overseas too? I was wondering if it's just an American thing, to want to pigeon hole a band into neat littler perfect boxes. In Europe, they have all these big metal festivals like Wacken, Summber Breeze, Download Festival, Dynamo, and list goes on and on, and every festival hosts a wide range of metal acts from every sub-genre. It always seems like European crowds are more open to enjoying a wider range of music without worrying about that being caught listening to a Symphonic-Goth-Metal band will hurt their thrash metal credentials with their buddies. But that just may be me over glorifying the scene over there out of frustration with the musical climate here.
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Old 02-15-2011, 05:09 AM
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Default Re: HIP HOP

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Originally Posted by Hellwyck View Post
Which is funny as I don't find Linkin Park "abrasive" at all.

SunnO))) are a "Drone Doom" band, just noise to me not the same as Cathedral or Crowbar who really are a heavy band (in all senses of the word back in the 1990's) or Down...
They might be "heavy" but they're more "heavy" to a full on doom fanboy than to a metalhead.


Pantera weren't death metal, which was your point. </pedantics>

I'm fully aware of what metal is, as much as I love a few other styles, I live for metal.
It's part of my DNA, it's what gets me up in the morning (that an a sudden urge to pi**)
Archives consider Sunn metal, they are the leading authority on metal and genre debate.

Just because you don't find Linkin Park abrasive, does not mean that someone else doesn't.

My father likes Pain of Salvation, who play progressive rock/metal but he isn't interested in say Slipknot (not metal), the sounds are on different levels, it is a different kind of intensity.

I can put on some Pelican, no problem, as soon as I play, say Alesana (not that I would, but that is beside the point), he'll say to turn that **** off, and they are most certainly not metal.

Before you try argue that that was never part of the conversation, AFI were a big part of that Screamo scene, and they are very mainstream (and not metal), while, say, Pain of Salvation are very much metal, but don't elicit the same kind of reaction. Each individual is different.

My point was never that Pantera were death metal, I have no idea how you gathered that. My point was that not all metal is like Pantera, or like Deicide, not that they are one and the same.

And what I meant by that was, you can't judge all metal based on one or two artists, the genre has a plethora of sub-genres, more then any other style of music, and they are completely night and day. To take two well known examples, My Dying Bride and Cannibal Corpse.

Metal is heavy, it is one of the defining points, but it isn't always loud, it can be soothing, just because your tastes/idea of metal is something more along the lines of death metal/thrash, doesn't mean that softer, more melodic styles of metal are not metal, or that I made a mute point.
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Old 02-15-2011, 05:25 AM
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Default Re: HIP HOP

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattsmith View Post
I'm into Madlib as well. They do sort of pull on the jazz strings don't they?

This sidebar discussion about metal is interesting to me too. I've always found it amazing how their hardcore aficianados pigeonhole the genres with the same ferocity of the jazz aficiandos. You would have thought they would have learned from the jazz crowd that flailing away at what everybody thinks is and isn't only alienates your scene and dooms your stuff to underground status. Despite the extroidinary differences in the music itself, the only difference between the mindsets of jazz and metal lover /not always the musicians/ is that the metal guys think the jazz guys are after them too whereas the jazz crowd doesn't care what the metal guys think of them. IMO this is a recipe for failure. I've never been any particular fan of the metal stuff of any genre or classification, but I certainly respect those drummers. There's obviously some serious talent there, so it's ashame to see the metal self destruct button always on.
Metal is incredibly diverse, I doubt your idea or knowledge of the subject covers a lot of it, there is stuff within the metal spectrum that is also within the jazz spectrum, the whole genre is rife with avant-garde and diverse influences, that is where so many of the arguments stem from.

You mentioned not pigeon-holing things, but then completely contradicted yourself by pigeon-holing metal lovers. A lot of metal guys do not care what the jazz crowd think, and listen to/like jazz. Some care, but there are jazz musicians who are under the impression metal is nothing but mindless noise and promotes hatred and violence. Plenty of metal musicians also play traditional styles of jazz or classical, I know a cellist from the Adelaide Symphony Orchestra who plays in a doom/death band.

I don't think metal is self-destructive at all, some metal-heads/bands/artists are, obviously when some people are playing with fire, pouring out emotions, they're going to get burnt, it is the same with any music, or even film, that plays heavily on intensity.

A lot of metal is very progressive, free-thinking and full of musical open-mindedness. I'm repeating myself with this second example, but the violinist of local Melbourne metal band Ne Obliviscaris has a Bachelor of Honours in Performance Music and recently spent time with Jean-Luc Ponty when he was in Australia.

I think you'll find stereotyping all metal fans a mistake, if anything, I'm a testament to that, I listen to a lot of different music in any given day, including some very heavy metal and some quite mild jazz and post rock. I was playing A Silver Mt. Zion yesterday, along with Miles Davis, Chet Baker and Isahn (the solo project of the frontman from Emperor, a very big name in the Norwegian black metal scene).

The root of all this was me trying to make a point that not all Hip Hop is what you hear on the radio and not all Metal is like what you are exposed to.
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Old 02-15-2011, 10:12 AM
Hellwyck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frost View Post
Archives consider Sunn metal, they are the leading authority on metal and genre debate.
Someone I used to know got called "the leading authority in metal"
We called him "an elitist prick".

I just gave my personal opinion on a band.

Quote:
Just because you don't find Linkin Park abrasive, does not mean that someone else doesn't.
The people who call Linkin Park "abrasive" usually think Nothing Else Matters is the heaviest Metallica get to.
A lot of people think Linkin Park are shit.

Quote:
My point was never that Pantera were death metal, I have no idea how you gathered that.
You mentioned a ton of death metal bands in your first reply to me, then you mentioned Pantera.
I have no idea who you are or how your mind works or your background in heavy music so I assumed you were classing Pantera in with Morbid Angel.


Quote:
And what I meant by that was, you can't judge all metal based on one or two artists, the genre has a plethora of sub-genres, more then any other style of music, and they are completely night and day. To take two well known examples, My Dying Bride and Cannibal Corpse.
Metal is heavy, it is one of the defining points, but it isn't always loud, it can be soothing, just because your tastes/idea of metal is something more along the lines of death metal/thrash, doesn't mean that softer, more melodic styles of metal are not metal, or that I made a mute point.
Thanks, I mean this in the nicest way when I say "you've just tried to teach me to
suck eggs".
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